Remembering Srila Prabhupada

The Hare Krishna Movement, The Positive Alternative. An Australian Pioneering pastime. 

This is the story of one young teenager who eventually became a devotee of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna by first going into the main Cathedral in Melbourne to pray to Jesus in February 1972.

When this young man entered the Church as a last resort to find some meaning and purpose to life, he went down on his knees in total helplessness and, with tears in his eyes, prayed to Jesus.

“Please use me in your service, in your plan, my life is now useless, it is better you use me in your plan to spread God Consciousness”

He prayed like this for about an hour, then to his surprise, a young Hare Krishna devotee in saffron robes walked in the Church (Syamananda dasa is a brilliant artist who was admiring the various paintings there).

This young man was very moved by the devotee’s simplicity and knew the mumbling he was hearing must be like the rosary, yes, he was chanting the names of God, the Hare Krishna mantra.

This young man took this as a gift and message to his prayers from Jesus, who was showing him the way.

This young man was amazed and without knowing much about Krishna except for his previous association with Upananda dasa now Avadhoot Maharaj some eight months earlier in Sydney Temple where he would read KRSNA BOOK to him while he cooked for Radha Gopinath, he now had tears in his eyes seeing this young devotee and remembering his association in Sydney.

He never took his eyes off Syamananda dasa. When the devotee left, the young man followed him out and watched what he thought was one of Gods angles, walk up the street.

The young man then walked no more than ten yards up Swanston st, Melbourne when a bubbling young girl in her mid teens approached him in a beautiful sari with flowers in her hair “Hari Bol’’ she said, then continued

”I’m with the Hare Krishna Movement and here is our magazine Back to Godhead, we are having a love feast tomorrow, come along and experience the ecstasy of Krishna Consciousness!''

This young man was blown away, as they used to say back then, he was thrilled and truly believed Jesus had answered his prayers.

Probably the most astonishing thing was when he turned up the next day (February 18th 1972); it was Lord Caitanya’s appearance day one of the most auspicious days in the Krishna Conscious calendar.

Back in those days we went by the date in Srila Prabhupada's Book ''The Teachings of Lord Caitanya'' because that is all the information we had. The fact is every year it is a different date, the actually date for 1972 was the 29th February.

All he new is it was Lord Caitanya's appearance day on the 18th of February because everyone told him this and that he was there on a very auspicious day.

Anyway he then went on to play the part of Haridasa Thakur in a play (because he had a scraggly beard) where Lord Nityananda was hit on the head with a clay pot.

Lord Caitanya (played by Kurma dasa instructed Nityananda Prabhu (played by Ajita dasa) and Haridasa Thakur (played by the young man who only the day before was praying in a Church for direction from Jesus) to go to everyone’s house in Nadia and request them to chant Krishna’s name.

The two great devotees eagerly set forth and began to knock on each and every door with the request, “please chant Krishna’s name, worship Krishna and teach others about Krishna.” They were happily received by the pious people, while the envious would blaspheme them.

Completely unconcerned by favourable or unfavourable reactions they proceeded around the town. In Nadia there lived two very sinful brothers called Jagai played by Upananda dasa now Avadhoot Maharaj and Madhai (Played by Sanak dasa – Stavros Vergis) Jagai and Madhai were born in pious Brahman families however; due to bad association they had become meat eaters, drunkards, thieves and arsonists.

There was no crime that they had not committed, including the most abominable sin of killing cows and Brahmans. The entire town was terrified of these two persons who seemed to be the very personification of all sinful activities.

On the day Nityananda Prabhu (played by Ajita dasa) and Haridasa Thakur (played by the young man) were moving in the town, these two brothers, completely intoxicated were alternatively fighting and embracing each other. After observing them for some time Nityananda Prabhu compassionately decided to deliver them and thus approached them.

Despite the warnings of the town people Lord Nityananda and Haridasa Thakur, approached the two drunkards instructing them to chant the holy name of the Lord.

Hearing these words the two sinners looked up and seeing the two saintly figures roared in anger. They leapt up and ran to catch the two sannyasis. The two devotees fled at the sight of the attacking brothers.

Apparently terrified they shouted, “Krishna! Save us!! Govinda!,” and ran. (The young man remembers clearly Arjita and himself doing this)

The two brothers wandered off in their drunken condition along the banks of the Ganga where Caitanya Mahaprabhu bathed. Constantly drunk, they started harassing and terrorizing the devotees.

Eventually Nityananda and Haridasa went to the Ganges to see Lord Caitanya (played by Kurma dasa) however the two brothers again accosted them. On seeing Lord Nityananda, Madhai (played by Sanak dasa) became furious and struck Him with a broken earthen pot.

When Jagai (played by Upananda dasa now Avadhoot Maharaj Maharaj) saw the blood flowing from the wound, he became compassionate and restrained his brother.

While Nityananda Prabhu patiently stood, looking at the brothers with compassion, tolerating the pain and humiliation, Haridasa ran to tell Caitanya Mahaprabhu about the incident. (Yes, the young kept repeating his lines for this part and kept repeating the name of Lord Caitanya so he would not forget)

Hearing that Nityananda Prabhu had been hurt by the brothers, Caitanya Mahaprabhu ran towards them with the intention to kill them.

He summoned His chakra which looked like death personified to the two terrified brothers.

However Nityananda Prabhu quickly intervened and begged Caitanya Mahaprabhu to stop. He reminded Him of His mission to kill the sinners by saturating them with love of Godhead. Thus appeased the Lord took back His chakra.

Nityananda Prabhu told Caitanya Mahaprabhu that it was Jagai who had saved Him from further harm at Madhai’s hand. Hearing this Caitanya Mahaprabhu said to Jagai, “By protecting Nityananda you have purchased Me.

You may ask any desire you have in your heart. From today on you will have pure love and devotion for Krishna” Hearing this Jagai fell at the feet of the two Lords and grasping the feet of Caitanya Mahaprabhu wept.

Seeing the wonderful transformation in his brother, a remorseful Madhai begged for the mercy of the Lord. However, since he had committed the worst of all offences, that of attacking a Vaishnava, the Lord did not even consider all his pitiful pleas for mercy.

Only after Madhai grasped the feet of Nityananda Prabhu and received His mercy did Caitanya Mahaprabhu agree to deliver Madhai also.

That night the young man who took directions from Jesus, joined the Temple and and shaved up that night done by Sanak dasa and he eventually become initiated by Srila Prabhupada.

To this very day he is thankful to Jesus who directed him to Srila Prabhupada who in turn began teaching him about Krishna’s pastimes.

That young man was me.

Remembering Srila Prabhupada the best days of my life.

When we all went to meet Srila Prabhupada in April 1972 at Melbourne Airport, the first thing I noticed was he had a distinct golden aura around him that stood out from all others; his wonderful skin glowed and caught the attention of everyone in the Airport lounge, he was so happy to see his disciples.

I handed him a big red rose, he took the rose off me and with a big smile, taped me on the head with his cane. I had tears in my eyes; it was such a special moment to see my Spiritual Master.

Later many devotees gathered around me asking what it felt like to be tapped on the head by Prabhupada with his cane.

Those days were very remarkable. So kind and merciful is Srila Prabhupada, who gives even the most degraded a chance to become Krishna Conscious. Most of us were just teenage boys and girls back then, sincere seekers of truth.

I also remember the program at the Melbourne Town Hall meeting in April 1972 and the wonderful kirtan Srila Prabhupada led. It was remarkable; everyone was totally fixed on hearing Srila Prabhupada chant Jaya Radha Madhava, we all danced in total ecstasy. Never before or since have I heard such a beautiful kirtan.

When we all returned to the Temple at 14 Burnett Street, St. Kilda. (It is a place of pilgrimage and I still go there at least once a year to remember Prabhupada.) I was assigned to stay out in the front of Prabhupada’s room and even sleep there after the programs we attended.

My job was to bring Prabhupada prasad, clean clothing ready for the next morning and guard his room. Some amazing conversations went on in Prabhupada’s room. Some nights he would call devotees in and preach to the early hours of the morning.

The following night we went to a Franciscan Monastery. As Srila Prabhupada made his way to the monastery, he and his disciples were greeted by the monks and a long table full of different fruits. This was very artistically arranged and Prabhupada was very pleased.

I immediately went and preached to a middle aged monk, however stopped and went and sat down in front of Prabhupada with many other devotees. 

I then saw Prabhupada call over Vegavan Prabhu, who then came and taped me on the shoulder. He whispered in my ear, 

“Prabhupada wants you to continue preaching to that monk, such preaching is more important than even associating with the Spiritual Master.” Wow, so I got back up and went back to preaching to the monk.

Back then, Srila Prabhupada did not eat till after coming back from a program. He would then eat a hearty meal of prasadam while listening to a recording of his lecture.

Afterwards Prabhupada would discuss Krishna Consciousness with Syamasundara das, his secretary, Nanda Kumar das, his personal servant and an excellent mridanga player, and Hanuman dasa.

There was only four of us in the room. I stayed in the room for about an hour and listened to them discuss the Town Hall program. Prabhupada found Hanuman a very humorous character. Hanuman was also very excited about taking sannyasa off Srila Prabhupada on the following Sunday.

The next morning, while I was half awake out at the front of Srila Prabhupada’s room, I noticed two small feet gently walk past me without making even the slightest sound, I sat up immediately and paid my obeisances.

Prabhupada was a little jolted on his way to the bathroom by my obeisances and said softly to me, ‘Hare Krishna not so loud’. Over the years Prabhupada always acknowledged me. When I drove the Hare Krishna Temple bus, he asked me if it was mechanically sound. The bus could never go faster than 60 mph.

In April 1972 before the explosion of devotees in Australia, when Prabhupada came to Melbourne, there was only 12 of us living in the Temple, for five days we had very close association with Prabhupada, every day I went to his room with his nicely ironed clothing and stayed sometimes for hours. You see, there were not that many devotees around, there was more in Sydney at this time, about 25. Those early days I relish.

I remember one time when one devotee Dhoumya dasa threw water over me in play and I chased him through the Temple running past Srila Prabhupada’s room, he heard us run past and came out to find out what was going on, he said to Syamasundara,

''Who was that running past?''

Prabhupada walked up the hall and went into a room finding me wrestling with Dhoumya who was trying to hide in a cupboard, on seeing Prabhupada we immediately paid our obeisances.

Prabhupada immediately started laughing.

It was at 83 Hereford Street Glebe Temple near the Sydney Uni in July 1972 we began our preaching mission up North. There were 16 of us, boys and girls on the double Decker Bus.

We had written in big letters on the side ”The Hare Krishna Movement, The Positive Alternative” spreading the mission of Lord Caitanya for the first time on Australian soil.

In July 1972 we left Sydney Temple for the trip of a life time we came to believe that we had probably taken us thousands of life times to achieve such a privilege. 

We were on the very first preaching mission to every Towns and Villages around Australia.

The devotees on this first travelling preaching mission were:

Madhudvisa Swami, Caru (only came part of the way) Balarama, Chittahari, Yasomatinandana, Dvaipayana, the cook, Krsna Caitanya (Ted Spencer who the previous year was the world champion for surfboard riding), Kuntiboja, Kainaram Srngi (now Muralidhar das) (meet up with in Cairns) Krishna Prema (meet up with in Cairns) And me Gauragopala, I shared Bus driving duties with Chittahari and Balarama

The ‘boys’ (because that’s what we were back then) lived in the Brahmacari quarters, which were the bottom deck of the bus (except for the bus drivers who had a private space upstairs), while the second deck (upstairs) was the Brahmacharini or girls quarters, they are:

Ambika, Kamarupa (who joined us in Cairns) Sukla devi-dasi and Elayne Mitchell also joined us there in the Commune at kuranda near Cairns
Most of us were teenagers back then except for Madhudvisa Swami, Balarama, Chittahari and Krsna Caitanya dasa.

Krsna Caitanya dasa was the great Ted Spencer, who famously declared –

“When I surf, I dance for Krishna”, urged on in his heats by a full Hare Krishna cheer squad.” (Bells Beach, Australia – the Age Newspaper).

Other famous surfers like Nat Young also spent time with us when we arrived in Brisbane.

Unknown to me due to being on the road, my initiation letter from Prabhupada dated July 10th 1972 had arrived in Sydney that I would not pick up until after our Bus trip up North.

It was on this bus trip a devotee continued suggesting we came from the impersonal Brahmajyoti that started the ‘origin of the jiva’ controversy a few months earlier.

That idea was quickly rejected in a letter from Prabhupada called ‘Crow-And-Tal-Fruit’ Logic that eventually was sent to all Temple Presidents in Australia. Madhudvisa Swami quote this to us –

Srila Prabhupada – ‘’Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition’’. Letter to: Revatinandana — Los Angeles 13 June, 1970

It was a hot topic back then in 1972 but Prabhupada was personally present to guide us

We all new this was a very auspicious time and that the teachings of Srila Prabhupada we were hearing, was the revelation of a long kept secret and explanations that told us about the universe and it’s creator Lord Krishna.

On the way we chanted on the streets of Newcastle and all Towns in-between Sydney and Brisbane, such as Kempsey, Coffs Harbour, Grafton, Ballina, Lismore and the hippie centre of Australia, Nimbin.

But by far the spookiest place we went to was Byron Bay; Kainaram prabhu claimed he had seen the ghost of a dead girl who had been killed by a train many years ago.

On many occasions people had claimed to pick up this lonely little girl to take her home only to find when they got to there home she had mysteriously disappeared. People would go up to the house to tell the little girls parents only to find she had died many years before.

Obviously it was just an urban legend and our simplistic youth was intrigued. Madhudvisa Swami used this to preach to us the difference between the subtle and gross body.

After Byron Bay with all the hippies, we went to Murwillumbah where we chanted in the streets for the first time. Soon (1977, 5 years later) we would establish the farm New Govardhana there.

We then went inland to Lismore, then Armadale where there was a university. We meet an Indian Professor who invited us to the Uni where we chanted and distributed Prasadam. Many Indian families lived there and some of us went to their houses to speak from Bhagavad Gita as it is.

As the night progressed, the Indian women cooked up some amazing food preparations that we offered to Srila Prabhupada.

That place was very, very cold. Every morning, even in the middle of winter, we had cold showers behind the bus. To give one an idea, Chittahari was walking to the bus one cold morning with what we thought was a board, it was his underwear (koppings) frozen solid!

We eventually arrived in Toowoomba in Queensland and chanted to the redneck out back Queenslanders who thought we were some alien invasion from another planet!

From there we went to the Gold Coast, made up of the major towns of Coolangatta, Burleigh heads, Surfers Paradise and Southport. We chanted in all these places, distributed Back To Godhead Magazine and Prasadam and spoke to the enormous crowds that gathered around us.

Many of the devotees on the Bus, like Balarama and Krsna Caitanya where surfer board riders, they attracted many young people to learn about Krishna and take prasad. Especially Krsna Caitanya who was a well-known celebrity around the world.

Then we went to Beenleigh, in-between the Gold Coast and Brisbane. The day we arrived in Brisbane, we chanted on the city streets and were on page two of the Couramail Newspaper the next day.

The headline was “The Hare Krishna’s have arrived with the chant of peace”

Brisbane was also having their annual ‘Festive show’ that attracted tens of thousands of people.

We chanted out the front gates of the ‘Show grounds’ where so many people saw the Hare Krishna’s for the first time, many receiving BTG Magazine.

It was there Nat Young, another famous surfer and friend of Krsna Caitanya dasa (Ted Spencer) joined us for a few days and become friends with Madhudvisa Swami who nicely preached to him about Krishna.

We never had the full version of the Gita in those days, only the abridged edition with the forward by Allen Ginsberg.

Those years were extraordinary. Dwaip cooked up beautiful offerings to Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya and Nityananda while Chittahari, Balarama and myself were the Bus Drivers. Yaso and Kuntiboja were the inquisitive philosopher, well, actually we all were.

We just new we were very fortunate to be on that bus hearing such wonders of creation. Some of us asked ‘what did we deserve to hear the Srimad Bhagavatam. Some of us speculated we were yogis, mystics, devotees and even demons from the Satya-yuga.

Madhudvisa laughed and simply said ''It is by the causeless mercy of Lord Caitanya and Srila Prabhupada that the seeds of Bhakti are now sown in our hearts''. 

Madhudvisa read from one of Prabhupada’s original volumes if Srimad Bhagavatam he brought with him in 1965 to America.

In those days we would chant on the streets for 8 to 10 hours a day. One night at the show grounds we chanted to 10 pm because there were so many people. We chanted through all the Towns and cities as we proceeded up north to Cairns.

We went through Towns like Bundaberg, Mackay, Hervey Bay where we had big feast with hundreds of curious locals attended, (the Americans call them rednecks, we call them yobo’s).

Gladstone, Rockhampton, Airlie beach, Townsville, where we where on the front page of the main paper, actually all papers in all Towns were doing articles on us that kept us very busy doing interviews and arranging interviews with Madhudvisa.

At Kuranda, just outside of Cairns, Madhudvisa lead a blissful kirtan through the hippie community and hundreds of them, some were naked mostly teenagers, joined in chanting Hare Krishna and dancing.

Elayne Mitchell has said on the experience – ''I was there at Kuranda in 72 and went on the bus to the Millaa Millaa Buddhist colony for the Janmastami. It was very special. 

I had been going to the temple regularly before going to Cairns and I remember well, the only time people were naked in the commune was when they went swimming.

Most of us wore beautiful long hippie dresses or sarongs etc. some of the guys used to get around naked as I recall, but my girlfriend and 8 or 9 other friends and I who I all hitchhiked up from Melbourne together were quite chaste and wore nice clothing.

After a few months in Cairns I lived in the Temple in Melbourne for a few months, then lived in the Adelaide Temple for a few months, then moved back to Melbourne and lived in a flat with Deva Darshana DD after she and Jayadharma Dasa split up.

It was while living with her that I met Brian my future husband. We got married in May 1974 and our daughter Narayani was born later that year''

There was an explosion of devotees around 1972, the communes we went to in Australia were full of hippies at that time, we chanted through the forest areas and were like the pied piper, naked hippies as young as 14 came out of the forest and followed us singing Hare Krishna, there were hundreds of them at a place called Kurandar which is in Northern Queensland.

It was truly amazing at that time, I have never seen anything like it since, even today 45 years later, if you stand on the hill where all those hippies once gathered and chanted Hare Krishna, you can still see where the high water mark of transcendental bliss reached in the early 70s.

So now, 45 years later, you can go up on that steep hill in Kuranda and look down over the beautiful forest, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave of transcendental bliss finally broke and rolled back.

Devotees before this had never visited anywhere outside of Sydney or Melbourne. We were the pioneers at the very beginning of Lord Caitanya’s Golden Age in Kali-yuga.

We celebrated Janmastami at a Buddhist colony not far from Kuranda; we loaded as many hippies as we could in the double decker Hare Krishna bus, all chanting Hare Krishna and dancing ‘on the bus’ to the excellent blissful kirtans with Madhudvisa leading.

IT WAS VERY SPECIAL.

The following day was Vyasa-puja and Madhudvisa had lit a candle under Srila Prabhupada’s photo, the aura, bliss, love and security from that photo permeated the entire bus with an amazing mood of reverence and Krishna Consciousness.

They were amazing days and there was a childish innocence about those days; In fact we thought Madhudvisa was old (he was 24, Chittahari was 22 Krsna Caitanya was 23 and Balarama was 29).

The rest of us were still teenagers. The present generation I don’t think realize how young we were in those beginning years of ISKCON.

There was also no hanky panky going on, everyone was very sincere, very dedicated and very attached to Prabhupada.

We only ate offerings to the Deities and absolutely nothing else, if it was not prepared on the Bus we would not eat except on rare occasions at an Indians home as we did in Armadale (We had a beautiful photo of the Panca-tattva with a wonderful Photo of Prabhupada at their feet), no one even dreamed of eating anything unprepared by devotees or even drink soft drinks in those blissful days.

It was in the Temple room at 83 Hereford St. Sydney in early February 1973 that Srila Prabhupada and myself were alone as all the devotee had gone on Sankirtan.

Srila Prabhupada had noticed the paintings of Lord Caitanya and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur that I innocently put on the step of his Vyasasana to keep them off the wall and floor while I was cleaning.

Srila Prabhupada laughed and laughed saying that is not where those Personalities go, the emotion in his eyes and his humility I will never forget, he stayed in the Temple room chanting japa for about 10 minutes while I continued cleaning the Temple room in bliss!

At Melbourne’s third Rathayatra in July 1974 Srila Prabhupada attended, during the procession I tried to stay as close to him as I could while playing the mridanga drum, it was a very special time dancing there with Srila Prabhupada and latter on in front of him in a hall where we celebrated Rathayatra lecture by Srila Prabhupada and a wonderful feast.

In 1976 I was Srila Prabhupada’s Bodyguard at Melbourne Temple and not only stayed out the front of his room, but slept there as well. At the time four well shaven suited men, all in their forties would always come by the Temple harassing us with high tech cameras and listening devices. (Keep in mind that the average age of a devotee back then was twenty-five so these adult men were pretty scary)

They would also follow us our on street Sankirtan, film us and try to intimate the devotee’s distributing books by taking many, then ripping them up and throwing the books or magazines in a rubbish bin! These guys were real heavy

These men were part of a self appointed fundamentalist Christian deprogramming group with the Catholic Church that dealt with what they considered threats to the Catholic Church's youth being converted to other faiths.

One afternoon Pusta Krishna Swami went down to speak to them and one of them, in a barrage of abuse, threatened to kill Srila Prabhupada. Coming back with a stunned look on his face Maharaj said “These people are demons! Big demons!!

Pusta Krishna Maharaj was horrified what these men had said, and was reluctant to even repeat it however; he did tell only a few devotees that Prabhupada’s life had been threatened.

Hari Sauri prabhu, Srila Prabhupada’s personal servant at the time, was appalled and disgusted that a pure devotee of Krishna was threatened in this way and was so concerned we bought a shotgun.

The next day while also guarding the Temple hiding out the front of the Temple in a car out the front of ‘Prabhupada’s House’ these men all walked past trying to provoke the devotees and scare them.

When I opened the door of the car suddenly, one of them, Tom Erickson, who had been personally blessed by the Pope, pulled out a handgun and pointed it at me. Erickson was the ringleader and high up in the Catholic Church, a private detective known and even respected by many as a deprogrammer and even a rumoured hit man.

Amogha dasa was at the front gate and out of fear, I ran from the car and crawled the front wall of the Temple, about 7 feet high, so quickly that Amoga was astonished how I went over the fence like lighting.

We then went and told Prabhupada what had happened and he said “Then our movement is having some success, these men feel threatened because our movement is having so much success with today’s young people”

We called the police as Prabhupada instructed and they came and spoke with them and Ugrasrava dasa who never stopped giving lip to them and calling them demons to their faces.

Unfortunately the police did nothing, they new who he was, while Ugrasrava just called kept calling them dogs of the Catholic Church among other things.
At night I would stay out on the balcony of Prabhupada’s House with the shotgun that Hari Sauri had bought, staying awake watching Srila Prabhupada through the window translate late into the night.

Even though the night was freezing cold out on the balcony, watching Srila Prabhupada gave me warmth as he translated which was truly amazing. Prabhupada would go around to all the windows and doors to make sure they where locked.

For days these men intimidated devotee and guests but we were told to ignore them, except for Ugrashave Prabhu who constantly gave them lip to let them.

Actually nothing they could do could stop our preaching movement that they and the Catholic Church desperately attempted because we had Krishna and Prabhupada on our side and their arrogant threatening presence only made us more determined to spread the mission of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

A week after Srila Prabhupada had left a drive by shooting occurred and gunshots went through one of the windows – Kurma dasa’s room. He was there at the time and was fortunately unhurt as the bullets went into the wall.

The next day it made page two of the Melbourne Sun and the Australian public were outraged that such violence could happen over Religion in Melbourne.

A few months after that someone attacked our Temple again and through a small bomb over the back fence exploding on one of the cars, only a few hours before that I was resting in that same car while doing guard duty.

This attack also made the first bulletin on the evening TV news all over Australia.

The outcry of the public, due to the media reports, seemed to stop any further attacks from these Catholic fundamentalist fanatics.

During all these attacks we remembered what Srila Prabhupada had said “Then our movement is having some success, these men feel threatened because our movement is having so much success with today’s young people”

Many years later the main offender from the Catholic Church Tom Erickson got very sick due to a blood disorder and had his leg amputated.

Then to the surprise of the devotees, he rang the devotees in Melbourne and apologised for what he had done when Srila Prabhupada was here and asked the devotees for forgiveness for harassing all the devotees and yes he was forgiven.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada 

By your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa ACBSP

The eternal individual jiva-souls originate from their permanent home on the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana and not from tatastha sakti, the impersonal brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Visnu, that are all a fallen conditional states of the individual jiva-souls.

Srila Prabhupada - "The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. 

Those who are in the brahman effulgence (impersonal brahmajyoti) they are also already in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from an already fallen condition. 

When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down. It does not matter where a living entity stays.

In the material world also there are different stages of living conditions, and to remain in the brahman effulgence is also another phase of that fallen condition. Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that conditioned souls by their pious activities are elevated to the higher planetary system, but as soon as the stock of pious activities is finished he again comes down on the earthly planet. 

Similarly those who are elevated beyond the planetary system to the brahma effulgence, they are also prone to fall down as much as a living entity from the higher planetary system. As such those who are thinking that they are liberated by being situated in brahman effulgence are described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam as impurely intelligent. 

In other words, they are actually not liberated, and because they are not actually liberated they again come down to the material world as much as a living entity elevated to the higher planetary system comes down to this earthly planet. So we do not accept anyone elevated to the brahman effulgence as actually liberated."

(Letter to Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada was very clear on this subject of where the eternal jiva-soul's perpetual home is - "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami, Melb Australia June 1972)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture BG, Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, Feb 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Hare Krsna record album with Prabhupada Dec 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha planets and Krsnaloka, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down to the material world." (Lecture July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking, just like in a dream you are thinking a tiger is eating you, but you were never eaten by tiger, there is no tiger, it is just a dream. So we have to get out of this dream of the material world." (Lecture CC, Adi-lila 7.108, San Francisco, Feb 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada - "Originally everyone is nitya-siddha (Krsna conscious). nitya-siddha Krsna Bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity (jiva-soul) is originally nitya-siddha." (SB class, Canto 7 Ch 9 text 4, Mayapur, West Bengal Feb 18, 1977)

The following Conversation took place in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples.

Devotee - "Why did we come to the temporary material world of repeated birth and death when we already have a perfect relationship serving Krsna in the spiritual world? What causes us to fall down from the spiritual world to the temporary material world, because we’re already serving Krsna in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Because of desire. Because of free will you desire to fall down, here it is explained, don’t fall down, don't misuse your free-will."

Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving, how is that possible?"

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have your freedom too (free-will) that Krsna will not interfere with. It is free-will and desire that is the cause of fall down."

Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this temporary material world. If Krsna did not want us to come here, then why are we here?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come to the material world. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But the child insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk and suffer." What can be done? Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence (free-will), therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence (free-will). If you persist that "I must go and enjoy independently," so God says, "All right, you can go and enjoy or suffer.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)

Acyutananda – "But in the Bhagavad Gita Krsna promises, “Once coming to the spiritual world, the jiva-souls never again returns to the material world, so he can return?"

Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he can return, that is voluntary."

Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna and want to enoy like Kṛṣṇa?"

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence (free-will), you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if you like, you can return to the material world, that is voluntary otherwise free-will has no meaning. That independence (free-will) has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that free will. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse of free-will is the cause of our falldown to the material world." (Conversation in Mayapur West Bengal, Feb 19, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "So even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down to the material world, that is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, "only if I could become the master?" They are thinking like that; they are foolishly trying to become God, that is delusional because you cannot become God, that is not possible, But one wrongly thinks they can."

Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna protect us from that desire and thinking that way?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He is protecting you, Kṛṣṇa says, "You rascal, don’t misuse your free will with mistaken self centred desires, surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this, you choose not to surrender, and free will allows that choice."

Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna save me from making those wrong selfish choices?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence (self expression or free-will) and instead forced to surrender and only obey with out question. In Bengali it is said - "If you catch one girl or boy and force them to love me, demand they love me, by keeping them a prisoner until they love me, is it love? You love me otherwise I will kill you! Is that love?" So Kṛṣṇa does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver, you love me otherwise I shall kill you! That is not love; that is threatening and being held against your will. 

Real love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (Lecture 8 June 1976 in Washington, D.C)

One can only know loving exchanges when they have the freedom of individual self expression in, which means being able to voluntary choose this side or that side, which proves you have free will because "voluntary" means making a choice.

Devotee - "In Bhagavad Gita it is said that once the eternal individual jiva-soul gets out of the material world and goes back to Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana), there’s no possibility of falling back to the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "No! There is possibility because that is always voluntary, but if one is intelligent, then they do return come back to the material world. 

Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you will never put it in again if you are really intelligent. So, those who are going back to Godhead, they have become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead if you will again fall down? 

Understanding this requires constant intelligence and that is why the devotees are always praying to Krsna that they never again fall down. Just like we are in renounced order of life. 

So, we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, “Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man,” I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become."

Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated, you are liberated, simply just a cloud has covered you, so drive away the cloud! There is no question that you were ever conditioned, you are ever-liberated, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this Maya, this is called Maya."(Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Melb, Australia June 1972)

Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned, you are thinking, just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you, but you were never eaten by tiger, there is no tiger, it wa just a dream." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Melb, Australia June 1972)

Sakti-tattva is not exclusively Visnu-tattva because the word "sakti-tattva" refers to ALL of Krsna’s energies. So, there are different categories of sakti-tattva which are-

1 - The first expression of "sakti-tattva" is Krsna's eternal "internal energy" headed by Srimati Radharani, who is no different from Kṛṣṇa, with Her unlimited "Visnu-sakti-tattva" expansions (called Visnu-sakti-tattva), She is also known as the personification of "sakti-energy"

2 - Visnu-tattva, Krsna's anti-matter eternal living personalities known as Krsna's Visnu/Narayana expansions on the Vaikuntha planets (each with a further different name according to pastime. And also Maha-Visnu, Garbhodakashayi Visnu and Paramattama who create and m the temporary material world.  

3 - Siva-tattva, the anti-matter eternal living individual Lord Siva and his many expansions, who are neither Visnu-tattva (God), or jiva-tattva (separated unique individual jiva-souls) 

4 - The jiva-tattvas (jiva-souls) are "anti-matter" eternal individual "marginal" living entities unlimited in number. "Marginal" means the jiva-souls can remain in the spiritual world if they choose in their full spiritual potential, who attempt to live in the temporary material world covered by a bodily vessel made of matter.

5 - Mahat-tattva, the material energy (lifeless matter) found in 25% of the Spiritual Sky only. The other 75% of the Spiritual Sky is made up of "individual life," no lifeless matter exists in the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.  

The correct understanding is that all of Krsna’s energies are under the broad category of sakti-tattva. To make it simple there are only two categories. 

1. Saktiman or God the controller of the energy 

2. Visnu-"sakti"-tattva living individual direct expansions of God, are eternally occupied with their service to God, such expansions of God have only the desire to please Krsna or His Visnu/Narayana expansion because they ARE Krsna playing a different role in His unlimited pastimes, they can never be covered by Maya and their concept of free will and independence is only to please God because, as said above, they ARE direct expansions of Godhead. 

The Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana are made up of many sakti tattvas including the Visnu-tattva and Visnu-sakti-tattva expansions of Krsna and are NOT jiva-tattva (jiva-souls) 

Most of the gopis, gopas and many many others inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, the Caitanya Caritamrita explains, are individual direct expansions of Kṛṣṇa known as Visnu-"sakti"-tattva  personalities.  

The many associates of Lord Kṛṣṇa and Lord Viṣṇu are made up of both Visnu-sakti-tattvas (direct expansions of God) and the individual jiva-tattvas (jiva-souls) 

So, there are individual jiva-souls playing many rolls in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrndavana alongside the Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas playing their unique role, but not known there as an expansion of Visnu by others. Not even Kṛṣṇa is seen as God in Goloka-Vrindavana although on the Vaikuntha planets Visnu is seen and worsholipped as God. 

Also, the Visnu-"sakti"-tattva nitya siddha devotees can never fall down as explained above.

The eternal individual jiva-souls are different from the individual Visnu-"sakti"-tattva direct expansions of Krsna, because they are also God who have 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities (93.75%). 

The individual separated jiva-souls who have 50 of Krsna's 64 qualities (78.125%) can NEVER become Visnu-"sakti"- tattva (direct expansion of God). 

As said above, all the different categories of living entities are known as sakti-tattva because "sakti" means all of Krsna's energies. And everything living as individuals is Kṛṣṇa's energy.

However, there is a difference among all of Krsna’s sakti energy. The eternal  individual jiva-souls are also Krsna's energy and expansions who have 78.125% of Krsna's qualities, which means they have 50 of Krsna's 64 qualities 

The eternal individual jiva-souls like us, can 'choose' to forget God and enter the mahat-tattva creation (material world) of Maha-Visnu as nitya-baddha (conditioned) and foolishly think they are a god and can do anything they want.

God (Krsna) has many different energies-

1 - The unlimited number of individual jiva-tattvas (jiva-souls) is one, 

2 - Matter (lifeless material energy) is one, 

3 - The unlimited consorts of the Lord headed by Radharani are one, 

4 - The unlimited direct expansions of God known as Visnu-tattva is one, 

5 - Siva-tattva, who is neither Visnu-tattva or jiva-tattva, is one.

Only the eternal individual jiva-tattvas (jiva-souls) can fall from Goloka-Vrndavana and the Vaikuntha planets.

The Visnu-"sakti"-tattva expansions of Krsna mentioned above, can never fall down because they ARE Krsna playing a different role in His own pastimes therefore, they are more divine expansions of the Lord than the individual jiva-souls where the Visnu-sakti-tattvas identity are tied to Krsna as all ''one'' but expressed individually.  

For example, all Visnu-tattva expansions of Krsna (also God) are "all-one" with Kṛṣṇa, where as the eternal jiva-souls are all unique individual separated personalities, they are NOT all one with Kṛṣṇa like the Visnu/Narayana personalities of the Vaikuntha planets are.

The real meaning of tatastha-sakti.

Lord Caitanya gives evidences from the Mahā-purāṇam, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that the Supreme Lord, the Absolute Truth, is analyzed in two characteristics. 

What are they? 

They are the personal or spiritual characteristics experienced in the spiritual world (liberated on the eternal Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana)

And the taṭastha characteristics where the jiva-souls are conditioned and have fallen to the material world or or fall further to the impersonal brahmajyoti.

Therefore, the eternal individual jiva-souls are only called tatastha-sakti in their "conditioned fallen state" outside the spiritual world.  

Taṭastha is a reference pertaining to those eternal individual jiva-souls, who are marginal living entities, which also means borderline living entities, like a place that exists between the water and the shore, sometimes covered, sometimes not covered. 

This means the individual jiva-souls (who by nature are eternal spiritual living entities), can remain in the spiritual world in their full spiritual potential, or become covered (conditioned) in the material world, or conditioned (inactive or dormant) in the impersonal brahmajyoti. 

In other words, this means the marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls) can be under the spiritual energy (anti-matter) or the material energy (matter)

The eternal individual jiva-souls are therefore over infinity sometimes "conditioned" (fall to the material world, or fall futher to the impersonal brahmajyoti), and sometimes are liberated (not conditioned) and therefore remain in the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.  

So, this temporary material world is the taṭastha characteristics, and the spiritual world is the personal characteristics. 

So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (materially conditioned) characteristics and enter the permanent (spiritual) characteristics. That is called spiritual elevation. We should not remain in the taṭastha state (materially conditioned), but go to the permanent spiritual) state.

Tatastha-sakti is a name for the eternal individual jiva-soul in their "conditioned state" in the material creation and impersonal brahman.

HERE HERE HERE !@!

This also means jiva-souls can choose to be with Krsna, or choose to enter the mahat-tattva (material creation) or later after becoming frustrated with material enjoyment, the impersonal brahmajyoti, no eternal individual jiva-soul comes from tatastha-sakti because it is not a place of origin for the jiva-souls who were never created and have always existed.

There are 160 names for the jiva-tattva like baddha-jiva, siddha-jiva, tatastha-jiva, jiva-tattva, jiva-sakti, jiva-bhutah etc that each describe the marginal living entity in its particular possition.

For example tatastha sakti refers to the individual jiva-soul's sovereignty as an eternal living being only while outside the spiritual world while in the material creation or merged in the impersonal brahmajyoti.

No, the eternal individual jiva-souls do NOT originate from tatastha-sakti as the less intelligent and sentimentalist believe, because the eternal jiva-souls have no origin and were never created, they have always existed without a beginning or end.

The jiva-souls are only tatastha-sakti while in the material universe or when trapped in the impersonal brahmajyoti or brahman or dormant in the atom.

Tatastha-sakti is not some place in the cosmos; it is a description of the jiva-soul's (marginal living entities) in their conditional state outside the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana. 

The terminology tatastha-sakti does not exist in the spiritual world because in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana the jiva-souls are not conditioned like in the material world and impersonal brahmajyoti.

In fact to enter the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, the eternal individual jiva-souls must progress beyond the "conditioned state" known as tatastha-sakti that only exists outside the spiritual world. 

Tatastha-sakti simply means the jiva-souls are in a "conditioned state" in the material world and while dormant in the impersonal brahmajyoti.  

Srila Prabhupada - "This material energy, you cannot say that it is false. It is false. The Vaiṣṇava philosophy is perfect. As the temperature (indistinct), it is sometimes manifested. And this is called taṭasthā. This characteristic, this symptom of the Supreme Lord, is called taṭasthā. Sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But, so far the superior energy is concerned, that is always manifested. That is explained in the next line. Dhāmnā svena sadā nirasta-kuhakaṁ paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Now that is paraṁ satyam, the Supreme Truth, where there is no such temporary manifestation'.

The marginal living entity (individual jiva-souls) is only known a tatastha-sakti while active in the material universe and inactive the impersonal brahman (including being dormant in the atom) and never while in the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana. 

The eternal individual jiva-souls have always had the free-will to love and serve Krsna, or reject Krsna. 

The individual jiva-souls are never known as tatastha-sakti in the Vaikuntha planets or in Goloka-Vrindavana. This is because the word tatastha-sakti describes the conditioned state of the jiva-souls outside the spiritual world.

The marginal living entity or jiva tattva's position is always marginal energy in both Goloka and the material world - between lower dead material energy and higher spiritual energy of Krsna that includes His various expansions like Vishnu tattvas that includes the His eternal associates of sakti tattvas that never fall from Vaikuntha.

In other word the jiva-soul is between external (material) energy and internal (also eternal spiritual) energy of Krsna Svayam Bhagavan. 

In Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya, Verse 6.160 are enumerated these three energies:

The spiritual potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead also appears in three phases- 

internal, 

marginal,

external.

Another verse (Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya, 8.152) gives more information 

In other words, these are all potencies of God, 

internal, 

external,

marginal. 

But the internal potency is the Lord's personal energy of sakti-tattvas and Visnu-tattvas and stands over the other two. The individual jiva-souls or marginal energy can choose to enter Vaikuntha or the material universes.

So, the eternal individual jiva-souls or marginal living entity are never equal to Supreme Personality of Godhead and also always subordinate to Him. 

The individual jiva-souls in their full uncontaminated potential above the designation of tatastha-sakti, are naturally part of Krsna's internal energy of of "individual persons."

The Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas, Visnu-tattvas, Siva-tattva (Lord Siva) and the jiva-souls all originate from their permanent residency in the spiritual world. 

Lord Siva is often difficult to understand because he is partly contaminated by his position in the temporary material world and therefore is not equal to the Visnu-tattva expansions of Krsna who have 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities or 93.75%.  

Lord Siva has 55 of Krsna's 64 qualities or 85.938% 

The eternal youthful realm in the spiritual Sky known as the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, that take up 75% of the Spiritual Sky. This is the natural home of all the categories of individual living entites.

Srila Prabhupada - ''Taṭastha means they are sometimes manifested and they are not sometimes manifested. So this material world is the taṭastha characteristics, and the spiritual world is the personal characteristics. So, our effort is to get out of this "taṭastha characteristic conditioned state." 

Taṭastha-sakti is what the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are called outside of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana while in the material world and impersonal brahmajyoti.

The eternal individual jiva-souls are never known as tatastha-sakti in the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana.

So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha-sakti conditioned characteristics in the material world. The jiva-souls are "not known" as tatastha-sakti in the spiritual world. 

So, clearly the eternal individual jiva-souls are NOT known in the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrndavana as tatastha-sakti, an important point to understand, even though they are known as that designated conditioned  state in the temporary material world and impersonal brahmajyoti.

Srila Prabhupada - ''Taṭastha means they are sometimes manifested and they are not sometimes manifested. So this "temporary material world is the taṭastha characteristics," and the spiritual world is the "personal permanent characteristics." 

So, our effort is to get out of taṭastha (temporary material world and impersonal brahmajyoti).

HERE HERE HERE HERE HERE

Then Prabhupada explains the permanent feature of the marginal living entity or jiva-soul is above the "conditioned state" of tastastha-sakti within the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana because the great majority of eternal individual jiva-souls (over 90%) only chooses Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - "Taṭastha-sakti refers to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) OUTSIDE their "permanent" state within the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana. 

Tatastha-sakti is another name for the marginal living entities in the temporary material world of repeated birth and death,  and within the dormant (inactive) impersonal brahmajyoti.  

Srila Prabhupada - " Do you understand what this ‘’permanent characteristics’’ means? It’s beyond the meaning of tatastha of actually ‘’choosing this side or that side, choosing Vaikuntha or the material world because the majority, 90% never ever make that choice and never fall down. 

However, as we know that can change due to free will, the ability to choose or sheer smallness of the marginal living entity and only then does the influence of tatastha manifest with less that 10% of jiva-souls in Vaikuntha. 

The permanent characteristics is ones eternal svarupa and while one is in that original position, as ones real self then the influence of tatastha does not exists even though technically it does.

The Spiritual Sky is the entire existence that has no beginning and has always existed. This means there is wall to wall, so to speak, of jiva tattvas (jiva-souls), sakti tattvas and Visnu-tattvas.

The eternal individual jiva-souls or Krsna's marginal potency however are all accompanied by a Visnu-tattva expansion of Kṛṣṇa in the mahat-tattva (material world) where as in Vaikuntha they are more personally with the Lord. 

This part of the Spiritual Sky is covered by a cloud of matter and within the basic material atoms of matter also exists a fallen jiva-tattva (jiva-souls) accompanied by the Paramattama or Kshirodakashayi Visnu. 

Sarva gatah means life is everywhere in both the Spiritual Sky known as Vaikuntha and the material aspect of the Spiritual Sky called the mahat tattva or material creation.

There is always unlimited jiva-souls in the material creation, many have chosen to be ' inactive' within each material atom, they are 'covered' and are in the a dormant state that is known as the impersonal aspect of the brahmajyoti effulgence.

Some do not understand that the entire Spiritual Sky IS all pervasive individual units of life. and the only difference in the mahat tattva is that same 'life' is covered by matter, so the sheer numbers of jiva tattvas should not surprise anyone as all matter is covering that all-pervasive life force aspect of the Spiritual Sky.

Also some ask why do so many fall? Well, it is less than 10% that enters the mahat tattva covered 25% of the Spiritual Sky and one should not be bewildered by numbers as the Spiritual Sky is vast and 'inconceivable large', in other words, how can one understand 75% and 25% of 'eternity' that is beginningless and endless?

So our part of the Spiritual Sky is covered by the mahat tattva. The entire Spiritual Sky IS the effulgence of Krishna's Body and 1/4 is covered by the mahat tattva and we, the jiva tattvas, are in that effulgence that is covered by the mahat tattva or material creation that makes up less than 10% of all jiva-souls or Krsna’s marginal potency. 

Most jiva-souls are active in Krsna Consciousness in Vaikuntha while some, less than 10% have chosen to be either ‘inactive’ within each atom, or ‘active’ in a material mahat tattva temporary vessel within the material cloud that covers this aspect of the Spiritual Sky

It is important to understand that all marginal living entities or jiva tattvas ‘originally’ come from Goloka-Vrndavana and are always in a perpetual state of uniqueness’ meaning they are forever fresh and youthful in their nitya-siddha body that is forever 'locked' within the 'eternal presence' of Krsna Consciosness if they 'choose' to remember their original state.

Srila Prabhupada – “No one falls from the spiritual world (Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana), for they are eternal abode. (SB, Canto 3 Ch 16 text 26, purport) What does this really mean?

This clearly means the jiva-soul's nitya-siddha svarupa body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY ‘DREAM’, ‘THINK’ OR ‘IMAGINE’ WE LEAVE. In this way the mahat-tattva is the destination for where such dreams go. 

Such an inferior non-Krishna conscious facsimile of the self is called the nitya-baddha sub-conscious self. It is there they are provided with temporary bodily forms or vessels created by Maha-Vishnu who is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva or material creation aspect of the Spiritual Sky.

Such a spiritual body is ‘eternally’ endowed with a two-armed form like Krishna’s but can also appear as a four armed form in the Vaikunthas in the mood of servitude, or further appear as a flower, drop of rain, chair, etc regardless, the original form of the soul is two armed just like Krishna’s.

What makes things confusing to several is that some marginal living entities, who have manifested as their inferior secondary baddha-jiva state in the material creation, can stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva for what seems to be an almost eternity!

This means many baddha-jiva souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation because of not being Krishna Conscious to awaken to their true nitya-siddha body in Goloka.

In other words, this entrance into the dormant impersonal Brahmajyoti condition only happens if they are not qualified to again remember their ‘full potential awareness’ of being a nitya-siddha perpetual Krishna Conscious body in Goloka.

In this way, the baddha-jiva sub-conscious state starts off as a non-Krishna conscious selfishly active dream (or thought)

Therefore it is only the secondary or inferior baddha-jiva that is a formless state of consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules (All referring to the baddha-jiva and NOT the nitya-siddha body due to always being a Krishna Conscious bodily form).

This baddha-jiva condition can only experience selfish desires through material bodily vessel provided by Maha-Vishnu from within His mahat-tattva creation that clothes the secondary baddha-jiva state with subtle (ethereal) and gross (biological) material containers or bodily vessels of the mahat-tattva.

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975

Trivikrama asks Srila Prabhupada - “You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I read …

Srila Prabhupada: “The same example. In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am …thinking, “Oh, tiger is there - It is simply dreaming condition”.

Trivikrama: But so many Vaishnavas are praying…

Srila Prabhupada - “So as soon as you understand that “This is not… I am not in contact with tiger, it is all a dream,” then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand “All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious. If you keep in Krsna consciousness, that “I am eternal servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. . . .

Trivikrama: This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very fallen…

Srila Prabhupada - “That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Krsna’s service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of Maya. You see?” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975

In this lecture Srila Prabhupada is very clear. Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world (As nitya-siddha). But when we want to take Krsna’s position, we put ourselves into a dreaming state (As nitya-baddha) that can only exist in the mahat-tattva, the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Vishnu.

In this dreaming nitya-baddha condition we forget our actual position and are thus free to act out our desire to become the supreme enjoyer.

This state of forgetfulness and dreaming is characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world. But Srila Prabhupada explains that in reality we are not fallen. We are simply in a dreaming nitya-baddha state.

Srila Prabhupada says that this is a very important point and asks the devotees to carefully think about it.

This concept that we are not really fallen offers an explanation for the statements that “no one falls from Vaikuntha.” We do not fall. We simply forget our original nitya-siddha relationship of service to Krsna. Some might argue that we have eternally forgotten Krsna. But that is not supported by Srila Prabhupada’s purports

Srila Prabhupada - “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975

The people who claim we have originated from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or a ‘clear sheet of consciousness’ sometimes alleges that those confronted with the choice of Krishna or the mahat-tattva are conditioned souls and cannot be engaged in the Lord’s personal association.

They further assert that those who have attained the personal association of the Lord never again misuse their free will. In most cases that is correct because the marginal living entity chooses to do so. For there to be genuine love or service, there must be free-will other wise we are simply mindless porn’s in a collective of monotonous bliss.

Further more, many do not understand the true facts of how we actually did come down from Goloka due to miss using that free will. We certainly did not come down as our nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body, which is perpetually there in Krishna’s pastimes fixed within that eternal presence where nothing perishes

The understanding of the word ‘dream’ in regards to the marginal living entity falling from Goloka is significant in Srila Prabhupada’s preaching yet has nothing to do with ’sleeping’ anywhere; it’s all to do with time.

The proper understanding is this. It’s all to do with the ‘eternal presence’ of the imperishable Vaikuntha’s and Goloka that has no past or future, compared to the ‘past, present and future’ of the perishable material creation of Maha-Vishnu.

The marginal living entity, due to free will and choice, falls out of synch with the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka or Vaikuntha simply caused by their non-Krishna conscious mistaken desires. This also means they fall our of synch with their own perpetual nitya-siddha body and create an alternative consciousness known as the nitya-baddha secondary self. It is this inferior consciousness that enters the mahat-tattva dreams of Maha-Vishnu.

Such selfish desires place the marginal living entity outside of Goloka as their nitya-baddha lower self that enters the mahat-tattva (material creation).

Now it is important to understand that while they are in the mahat-tattva, no time passes in Goloka-Vrndavana because of the ‘eternal presence’ of Krsna Consciousness there. Now that technically means their nitya-siddha body is NEVER fallen but rather it is their ‘consciousness’ that is fallen

Lord Krishna states that our constitutional nature is that all marginal living beings are eternal servants of the Lord. So to say that ‘conditioned’ souls have never been ‘unconditioned’ in Goloka-Vrndavana is incorrect.

When the marginal living entity is in a conditioned state (nitya-baddha), that doesn’t take away their eternal absolute nature as a nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna who is forever fixed within the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka. When a dark cloud covers the Sun, everything becomes dark however, it is not the sun that goes dark, it is the covering that makes it appear the Sun is dark.

Similarly, the nitya-siddha body of the marginal living entity is always in Goloka-Vrndavana but due to the selfish desires of the marginal living entity that cover the marginal living entities ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body, it appears that the darkness or the nitya-baddha secondary consciousness has replaced the nitya-siddha body, but that is NOT so, one’s nitya-siddha body is ALWAYS in Goloka even when one dreams they are nitya-baddha in the mahat-tattva or material creation.

The rebellious marginal living entity simply becomes overshadowed with the concept of past, present and future instigated by free-will, choice and their absolute smallness putting them out of sync with the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka where their nitya-siddha body is perpetually situated.

As a result, they have now adopted the relative perception of existence that places them within the mahat-tattva’s bodily vessels, which are all the dreams of the sleeping Maha-Vishnu.

As a result of this choice, the marginal living entity is no longer ‘aware’ of Goloka or their nitya-siddha body in Goloka that is perpetually fixed there due to the eternal presence of Krishna consciousness as already explained and are now nitya baddha trapped in the mahat-tattva of Maha-Vishnu

As in our case in the material world, we are presently ‘eternally conditioned’ (nitya-baddha) because long, long, long, long ago we made that choice to forget Krishna and simultaneously the ‘awareness’ of our nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) body we serve Krishna as.

And when again we achieve liberation from this material world due to the mercy of pure devotee, we will enter Goloka AGAIN by the method of becoming ‘aware’ of our genuine nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body or in simple terms, we begin to distinguish who we really our that separates us from the MATERIAL DREAM state or nitya-baddha fallen self centred consciousness.

Alan Ginsberg - “How did the material covering begin?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Begin?”

Alan Ginsberg - “As the material shadow. How did we fall into that?

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes. Yes. That is very natural. . . Because jiva, although para-sakti, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Krishna”.

Alan Ginsberg - “. How did we fall into that?”

Srila Prabhupada - “In the spiritual world, Krishna is the enjoyer. And all others, they are enjoyed–predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, ‘The Lord is predominator; we have to serve.’ When this service attitude is impaired, that–’Why serve Krishna? Why not ourself?’–that is Maya”. - Room conversation with Allen Ginsberg in Columbus, OH 5-14-69

Devotee - “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we re already serving Krsna?

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.” And as soon as you associate with the material nature, then you fall down.

Devotee - “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire…” Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 13.22-24 — Melbourne, June 25, 1974

Devotee - “You commented that everyone has a natural desire to have relationship with Krsna, but that because…

Srila Prabhupada - “Not desire, but he is already established”.

Devotee - ” Established.

Srila Prabhupada - “That is covered. Just like your relationship with somebody as father and son, it is established. You might have forgot, you might have left your home since a very, very long time, and you do not know who is your father, but there is some father. That is a fact. Nobody can say, “No. I, I have, I am born without father.” Nobody can say. One has father, but it may be that he has forgotten his father.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is that we have got some relationship with the Supreme Lord. That we have now forgotten. So it is not the question of desire. It is there. You don’t desire to become one’s son, you are already one’s son.

You simply do not know. Similarly, your relationship with Krsna is there, every one of us, but I have forgotten; I do not know. This Krsna consciousness practice will revive your relationship in what way, in which way you are related with Krsna. It is not that you have to desire.

No. It is already there. You have to desire only how to revive it, that’s all. That is Krsna consciousness. It is not an artificial thing. Just like we are establishing some relationship with somebody or you are my father or you are my wife, you are my husband. No. It is already there. Simply we have to find out.

That will be revealed when you are perfect in Krsna consciousness, brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati, you are freed from all material contamination, and you are perfectly situated in devotional service; it will be at once revealed: “Oh, you are related to Krsna.” You will have to wait for that. Bhagavad-gita Los Angeles, November 23, 1968

Paramahamsa - “But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return.

Srila Prabhupada - “There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is”.

Paramahamsa - “If we want”.

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.

Paramahamsa - “So we can come to the spiritual world and return?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.

Paramahamsa - “Fall down?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go.” Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness.

It’s not so difficult to ‘realize’ that long, long, long, long ago we were with Krishna as our permanent real nitya-siddha body but have now chosen not only to forget Krishna, but also forget that nitya-siddha body within the realm of perpetual originality called Vaikuntha

When a devotee regains his/hers original Krsna Consciousness and re-establishes ‘the awareness’ of their nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka, which is never lost while dreaming as nitya-baddha in the perishable creation, does not mean that one is only restricted by one particular svarupa (body) for eternity in Krishna’s pastimes

Ones eternal body is not limited to any particular nitya-siddha body they have there.

Also there are examples of devotees participating in the pastimes of the Lord in more than one svarupa at the same time, therefore our eternal rasa can change in Goloka; even though our nitya siddha or rasa body is perpetually situated in Goloka as a two armed form in it’s originality as Srila Prabhupada confirms.-

Yasomatinandana - “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes, human form. God is also human form. “Man is made after the shape of God.” So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs”. Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975

So unlike the material bodies in the mahat-tattva that are temporary decaying vessels the nitya-baddha consciousness moves around in, we ARE our body (nitya-siddha) in Goloka though, that body can transform because our eternal svarupa is interchangeable.

For example, ones svarupa can change to a four-armed form in the Vaikuntha Planets or a different form in Lord Caitanya’s pastimes in the top most platform in Goloka that He sometimes brings to the material world as pastimes, although very rare.

In simple terms, one has the ability to ’shape shift’ into any form to please Krsna Caitanya and can also be in many places in various forms at the same time.

Caitanya Caritamrita is full of such examples. Most are Vishnu tattva expansions although there are many jiva tattva’s like Naradha Muni as well. No jiva tattva in Lord Caitanya Lila is restricted only to their two-armed perpetual svarupa-nitya-siddha body

Srivasa Thakura is known as Narada Muni, he also has his svarupa manifestation in Goloka. Therefore, by the elegance of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Narada Muni is also simultaneously situated in the top most regions of Goloka where Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s endless pastimes are going on.

Further more, Srila Prabhupada has explained that Narada Muni enters the material world often disguised in different bodily vessels to preach Krishna Consciousness.

Who can understand the multidimensional full potential abilities of the liberated nitya-siddha souls?

Srila Prabhupada mentions in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 of the Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna says - “Don’t you remember me? I was your very close friend, but you gave up My Company and came to this material world”.

When asked directly about whether the jiva was ever in the spiritual world, Srila Prabhupada mentions in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 of the Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna (in the form of a Brahmana) says to King Puranjana (in his next life, as the daughter of Kind Vidarbha) “Don’t you remember me? I was your very close friend, but you gave up My Company and came to this material world”.

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.52: The Brahmana inquired as follows: Who are you? Whose wife or daughter are you? Who is the man laying here? It appears you are lamenting for this dead body. Don’t you recognize Me? I am your eternal friend. You may remember that many times in the past you have consulted Me.

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53: The Brahmana continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can’t you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world.

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.54: My dear gentle friend, both you and I are exactly like two swans. We live together in the same heart, which is just like the Mānasa Lake. Although we have been living together for many thousands of years, we are still far away from our original home.

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.55: My dear friend, you are now My very same friend. Since you left Me, you have become more and more materialistic, and not seeing Me, you have been travelling in different forms throughout this material world, which was created by some woman.

In understanding Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 7 Chapter 1 Text 35 Purport one has to first understand that Jaya and Vijaya caused an offence to Brahmanas and as a result were given two choices to atone from their offence.

They could either take three births in the material world as demons or they could take seven births as devotees. They chose to be in the material body as powerful demons so they could get back to Vaikuntha quicker. After all they were trapped in bodies that were under the control of past, present and future.

Now they come from Vaikuntha under Krishna’s compassion meaning they were given the opportunity to engage in Krishna’s pastimes while in the material world as Demons, so when their offence was atoned they were immediately re-established in their eternal original svarupa in Vaikuntha back within the eternal presence of Krishna Consciousness.

It must be understood they new they made a mistake by offending Brahmanas; at no point did they give up Krishna as we have done.

In other parts of Srila Prabhupada’s writings, he calls their offence as a fall down, this is why in the purport of the Srimad Bhagavatam 7.1.35 Srila Prabhupada says “This very significant question would be difficult for an ordinary person to answer, but Narada Muni, being an authority, could answer it”.

Now those who are associates of the Lord of course do not leave Goloka for the material dream or fall down AS LONG AS THEY CHOOSE TO SERVE KRISHNA however, there are those, less than 10% of Krishna jiva-tattva associates in Vaikuntha and Goloka, who DO choose to come to this material world and forget Krishna, they are only interested in their own exploits and want nothing to do with Krishna.

That can include any jiva-tattva (marginal) associate of Krishnas in Goloka who no longer choose to be an associate, any jiva-tattva can leave Goloka for the material creation, but most choose not to make that mistake. The important point is THERE IS ALWAYS CHOICE.

They therefore think, dream or imagine they fall - actually no falls from Vaikuntha because their nitya-siddha body is perpetually fixed there within the eternal presence of Krishna’s pastimes.

As the CC states all marginal living entities are originally nitya-siddha and only the Vishnu-tattvas never forget their position in Krishna lila. Some come to the material creation in Krishna’s lila while others come to for fill their own selfish dreams.

As there are no killing of demons in Vaikuntha, Krishna plays this role as His Vishnu expansion in the material creation with all his nitya siddha jiva-tattvas and Vishnu-tattva associates however, there are other jiva-tattva souls who choose to leave Goloka simply because of their choice not to be with Krishna, THERE IS NO MATERIAL CAUSE FOR THEM FORGETTING GOLOKA OR VAIKUNTHA OTHER THAN FREE WILL AND CHOICE.

Srila Prabhupada makes it clear in the fourth canto of Srimad Bhagavatam and numerous lectures, letters and morning walks we originate from Goloka.

Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature as marginal living entities. We can misuse such independence even in Goloka or Vaikuntha with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.

This means a small minority, less than 10% of jiva-tattva nitya-siddha souls in Vaikuntha or Goloka choose to leave and become nitya baddha in the material world. For this purpose Krishna, via His Maha-Vishnu expansion, creates the mahat-tattva (material creation) for them.

The marginal living entities full potential of loving selfless devotion to Krishna and His loving devotees is based on individuality, independence and the right to choose; we never loose that right to choose, not even in Vaikuntha. Surrender to Krishna and His pure devotees do not mean to become mindless porns in Vaikuntha and ‘yes’ men/women to Krishna.

No, everything in Vaikuntha is based on reciprocal loving service even if it is a fact that we surrender selflessly and unconditionally. The fact is that’s how Krishna also treats us. Having free will and choice gives us the opportunity to give ourselves in our own unique way. That choice is always there even in Goloka or Vaikuntha and must be there if genuine love is to exist.

It is not that we first have to be contacted by the modes of material nature to fall down from Goloka or Vaikuntha. It’s all to do with a combination of choice and the sheer smallness of the marginal living entity.

And even then due to that smallness and choice, we only ‘think, imagine or dream’ we are fallen that we become fallen. The fact is we never fall; our nitya-siddha body never leaves Goloka

Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could be come the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking”. 

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?

Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence”.

Srila Prabhupada - “That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C

Regarding to how a nitya siddha in Goloka can fall down to nitya baddha in the material world, Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrndavana.

We can misuse such independence even in Goloka or Vaikuntha with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.

Maya is not the cause of ones fall down from Vaikuntha, that is not possible she only exists in the mahat-tattva. The cause of ones fall down is ones own independent desires of self importance based on free will and choice.

One simply chooses to no longer serve Krishna as their nitya siddha body. As a result, they eventually forget their nitya-siddha body and leave Vaikuntha and enter the mahat tattva as their nitya-baddha secondary self that is the sub-conscious non-Krishna conscious condition of the marginal living entity.

it should of been made clear that the entire universes of Krishna and His Vishnu-tattvas, jiva-tattvas, Goloka-Vrndavana, Vaikuntha’s and the mahat-tattva (material creation) and the impersonal Brahmajyoti are all collectively the Brahmajyoti or everything that is.

The Vaikuntha’s were never created so the word ‘creation’ cannot be used for Goloka-Vrndavana and the Vaikuntha realm, nor can it be used to explain the marginal living entities (jiva-tattvas) or Krishna and His unlimited Vishnu-tattva expansions.

The word creation can only apply to the mahat-tattva material ‘creation’ because it has a beginning and end.

The ‘impersonal Brahmajyoti’ or the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky is actually a very small minority of souls in their baddha-jiva inferior feature that becomes established in that ‘impersonal’ dormant state due to the influence of being covered and frustrated within the mahat-tattva that souls fall to and are covered (material vessels that belong to the mahat-tattva) by when they choose to no longer serve Krsna in Goloka or Vaikuntha.

In other words, when souls become fed up with the material creation of changing material bodies or vessels, they can escape this cycle of birth and death by either realizing their full potential nitya-siddha body that is always in Goloka even while they ‘imagine’ themselves to be in the mahat-tattva, or they can cease to desire bodily activity (after much difficulty of casting off those subtle and gross material bodies) and enter an inactive dormant state of consciousness that is within and part of each marginal living entities capacity of expression, in this case inactivity.

The individual baddha-jivas who enter this ‘consciousness’ are expressing the impersonal side of their nature and is known as their impersonal Brahmajyoti feature. In other words the impersonal Brahmajyoti is the dormant inactive characteristic of the ‘baddha’-jiva

So where this painting is misleading is the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, is NOT some place within the over all universes but is rather a state of inactive consciousness ‘desired’ by the baddha-jiva aspect of the marginal living entity. (That ultimately is also only a temporary condition because the inherent nature of all marginal living entities is ‘activity’

Keep in mind the baddha-jiva consciousness is the sub-conscious or rebellious state of the soul that ignores ones Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha body or the full expression and potential that is the make up of every of every marginal living entity

Those who believe the jiva originates from some inactive state or from the Vraja River or the Body of Maha-Vishnu are actually propagating Impersonalism. The real facts are that all marginal living entities come from the pastimes of Krishna by their own foolish choice. This is the teaching of Srila Prabhupada.

Darkness cannot be left over in the presents of light because light dissipates all darkness. In other words while there is light (nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body), darkness (nitya-baddha condition) does not exist.

This means that when one’s ‘awareness’ is AGAIN situated as the eternal presence of their Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa body, the nitya-baddha sub-conscious darkness in the material creation no longer exists.

Tatastha-sakti is just another name of the jiva tattva or marginal living entity and those who are sakti tattva are actually expansions of Vishnu tattva or Krishna's internal potency, they are NEVER jiva tattva and of course can never fall down like the jiva tattva's can if they choose. In the Caitanya Caritamrita so many associates of Lord Caitanya are sakti tattva or expansions of Krishna. In the Pancha tattva only one soul is jiva tattva

Radharani is Vishnu tattva calling her nitya siddha is not right because she can never be nitya baddha - it's even silly to suggest this, Vishnu-sakti-tattva are also expansions of Krishna and it would be wrong to also call them nitya siddha even though some schools of thought do in the Gaudiya math

understanding lila can be difficult, at least for me. Vishnu expansions in another form doing austerity to attain a position as Krishna's conjectural lover is very confidential knowledge and such lilas are plenty in the Caitanya Caritamrita where so many Vishnu tattvas and Vishnu-sakti-tattv, that are also Vishnu-tattvas, seemingly did austerity to be with Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityananda -- it's all in the name of lila, that is what the whole universe is for as far as Krishna is concerned. Krishna is just having fun with himself and taking the jiva tattvas along for the blissful ride

So this only means there are two meanings to nitya siddha - Although the nitya-siddha expansions of Krsna always remain with Krsna - and then this - Srila Prabhupada - “The actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha” Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.107 New York, July 13, 1976

Lord Krishna states that our constitutional nature is that all marginal living beings are eternal servants of the Lord. So to say that ‘conditioned’ souls have never been ‘unconditioned’ in Goloka-Vrndavana is incorrect.

When a marginal living being are in a conditioned state (nitya-baddha) that doesn’t take away their eternal absolute nature as a nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna who is forever fixed within the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka Vrndavana: the rebellious marginal living entity simply becomes overshadowed with the concept of past, present and future instigated by free-will and choice putting them out of sync with the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka which is their natural home

As a result, they have now adopted the relative perception of existence that places them within the mahat-tattva’s bodily vessels, which are all the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. The jiva tattvas as their nitya baddha condition ‘go through’ Maha Vishnu and are not from Him to enter the mahat-tattva or material creation. This is important to understand.

As a result of this choice of ‘falling down’ from Goloka, the marginal living entity is no longer ‘aware’ of Goloka or their nitya-siddha body that is perpetually situated in the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka. So technically the living entities nitya siddha body never falls down, only their consciousness does as a ‘dream condition’ that enters the ‘dreams’ of Maha Vishnu.

As in our case in the material world, we are presently ‘eternally conditioned’ (nitya-baddha) because long, long, long, long ago we made that choice to forget Krishna and simultaneously the ‘awareness’ of our nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) body we serve Krishna as.

 And when again we achieve liberation from this material world due to the mercy of pure devotee, we will enter Goloka AGAIN by the method of becoming ‘aware’ of our genuine nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body that is always there in Goloka and become ‘eternally liberated’ or in simple terms, we wake up from the MATERIAL DREAM. 

No jiva tattvas originate from Maha Vishnu, they may go through him but they certainly do not originate from him, they also do not originate from a dormant state known as the impersonal Brahmajyoti or impersonal Brahman either

Srila Prabhupada – “Existence in the impersonal Brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the Brahman effulgence, they are also in the fallen condition. So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition”. - Letter, June 13, 1970.

From Srila Prabhupada’s teachings we learn that the dormant impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, where souls are in an individual slumber, is also a fallen state that one has entered previously from the mahat-tattva (material creation)

Therefore no souls ‘originate’ from the dormant characteristic of the Brahmajyoti, that is not possible because ALL living entities originate directly from the pastimes of Lord Krishna in Goloka-Vrndavana. 

The technical term for the jiva-soul that enters the mahat-tattva material creation and then the impersonal Brahmajyoti after becoming fed up with material existence is the baddha-jiva (The secondary condition of the marginal living entity, the original condition of the jiva tattva is nitya-siddha in Goloka) 

The baddha-jiva state in the impersonal brahmajyoti is a dreamless dream or inactive condition of consciousness that 'hovers' in the impersonal Brahmajyoti and exists in that state ONLY while the baddha-jiva is 'inactive' in the impersonal Brahmajyoti that is also a temporary condition of conscious awareness, eventually they fall down from there to again take material vessels in the material world or mahat tattva. 

I’m aware how some schools of thought in Hinduism like some in the Gaudiya Math incorrectly claim that the some jiva-souls originally emanate from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, which, they claim, is growing with a constant march of new jiva-souls. 

They further incorrectly claim that within the dormant characteristics of the Brahmajyoti, the immovability of these inactive jiva-souls is ‘somehow’ disturbed and movement begins.

They then claim that from non-differentiation, separation begins. From a bare expanse of standardized consciousness, individual conscious components grow. Srila Prabhupada rejected the nonsense idea that souls ‘originate’ from the impersonal Brahmajyoti from a dormant state of consciousness. 

To start with, the jiva souls are never created because they have always been. Actually our perpetual origins are directly from Krishna’s pastimes in Goloka because originally EVERY JIVA SOUL is a selfless nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna within His pastimes.

We do not have a problem with Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s Books but we DO have problem with MIS-INTERPRETATIONS from Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s books by most in the Gaudiya math. 

In fact, Srila Prabhupada admonished against taking any outside instructions.

From Srila Prabhupada’s Books, letters, morning walks and classes does Prabhupada instruct us, he is the final word on ALL past Acharays, only from Prabhupada we learn everything they preach and all our comments, essays and preaching must be based on Srila Prabhupada’s teachings above all else. 

Even in understanding Vedic Cosmology, Prabhupada found many Vedic Scholar’s translations totally useless so what ever we find must be in line with Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, he is giving ‘Sastra’ he learnt from his Guru, he is a true honest selfless ‘Sadhu’ and he is a bonafide ‘Guru’ who has done more to preach Krishna Consciousness than all previous Acharays combined.

Srila Prabhupada’s teachings ARE the combination of all the Acharays and his quotes, comments and mention of them is all we need to know. There is a life time just reading Prabhupada’s Books and hearing or reading all his lectures and morning walks, there is no need to associate with other sangas other than ISKCON

Srila Prabhupada - “Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura can be learned from our books. There is no need whatsoever for any outside instruction” Letter 73-12-25: Gurukrpa, Yasodanandana

Acyutananda – “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns. He can return?”

Srila Prabhupada – “If he likes he can return”.

Guru-kripa – “How is it that one can become envious of Krishna?”

Srila Prabhupada – “You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krishna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”. (Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976)

Only a minority fall down from Goloka and Vaikuntha and for them the mahat-tattva is created. No jiva souls originate from an impersonal source or from some cleat sheet of consciousness as some foolishly believe and teach.

Dr. John Mize – “Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?”

Srila Prabhupada – “No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down”.”. Los Angeles, June 23, 1975

In this way, the 25% of the Spiritual Sky that is material only caters for less than 10% of the jiva tattvas who choose to leave Vaikuntha for the mahat tattva or material creation, more than 90% of jiva tattvas always ‘choose’ to remain in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana. 

Of course the many Sakti tattvas and Vishnu tattvas expansions of Krishna never fall down and many, many individuals in Goloka Vrndavan are in that category however, we are jiva tattva and can choose to remain in Vaikuntha or leave for the mahat tattva creation of Maha Vishnu

 Acyutananda: 'But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”” 

Prabhupada: But if he likes, he can return. 

Acyutananda: He can return 

Prabhupada: That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that.… That misuse is the cause of our falldown. Room Conversation February 19, 1976 Mayapur 

Rather than placating the fall position, Srila Prabhupada refutes the no-fall position. We can fall even after returning back home, back to godhead. 

From Srila Prabhupada’s Books, letters, morning walks and classes does Prabhupada instruct us, he is the final word on ALL past Acharays, only from Prabhupada we learn everything they preach and all our comments, essays and preaching must be based on Srila Prabhupada’s teachings above all else.

What ever we find must be in line with Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, he is giving ‘Sastra’ he learnt from his Guru, he is a true honest selfless ‘Sadhu’ and he is a bonafide ‘Guru’ who has done more to preach Krishna Consciousness than all previous Acharays combined. 

Srila Prabhupada’s teachings ARE the combination of all the Acharays and his quotes, comments and mention of them is all we need to know. There is a life time just reading Prabhupada’s Books and hearing or reading all his lectures and morning walks, there is no need to associate with other sangas other than ISKCON 

Ones fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana is due to free will and choice not maya, there is no material cause for ones fall down from Goloka Vrndavana 

Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could be come the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking 

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire? 

Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”. 

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ” 

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? ”So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C 

Srila Prabhupada was very clear on this subject - “Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport” Letter to Madhudvisa Swam 1972 

Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973) 

Srila Prabhupada - These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha”. Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970 

Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” Original Hare Krsna album 

Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down.”. July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C 

Srila Prabhupada - “Actually, you are not conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada - “You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud (Maya), this is called Maya."

Srila Prabhupada - “Actually, you are not conditioned, you only think you are, you are thinking, just like in the dream, that a tiger is eating you. But you were really never eaten by tiger because there is no tiger, it was all just a dream." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami, Melb Australia June 1972) 

We have to realize that being separate marginal living entities (jiva-souls) also means the jiva-souls have the free will to voluntarily contribute in both the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana in their own unique way that actually expands one's relationship with Krsna in an atmosphere of unknown expectations that creates mystery and arouses curiosity and intrigue. 

Without free will, how can there be genuine unique contributions of loving exchanges that can only exist in a "two-sided" reciprocal relationship? 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura - “As long as the jiva-soul takes full shelter of the Supreme Lord he remains a resident of the Vaikuntha planets or Kṛṣṇaloka. But when his innate spiritual knowledge of the Lord is covered by forgetfulness, he is placed outside the transcendental realm.” (Caitanya Siksamrita, Sanmod-ana Bhasya-sloka-1) 

Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to God or Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body." (Hamburg, Germany, June 22, 1974) 

This is very clear according to Srila Prabhupada, who rejects the 'impersonal Brahmajyoti origin claim that the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are originally in a dormant (inactive) state in the impersonal brahmajyoti.

Many today in 'Hinduism' follow that misunderstanding and it appears to me, they have incorrectly used the word 'tatastha-sakti to describe this impersonal dormant origin state of the jiva, yes the jiva-soul may be in a state of inactivity however, long, long before being in that already fallen position he was with Krsna. 

Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes- 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” (SB, Canto 4 Ch 29 text 83 Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - 'The actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha or eternally liberated, because God is eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal. So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sadhana-siddha. 

By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha or eternally liberated. So, the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas or eternally conditioned AGAIN nitya-siddha or eternally liberated. It is a difficult task." (New York City lecture CC July 13, 1976)