Only fools attempt to find permanent comfort, pleasure and happiness in these temporary material bodily vessels that are always in a constant state of decay, decline and maintenance.

Such material vessels the jiva-soul is in, eventually grows old, diseased and end up being food for maggots and worms. 

We are NOT these material bodies we are presently in!

Srila Prabhupada - "Devotees do not need to attend the slaughter houses of modern society called Western mundane universities. The modern education means simply a craftsmanship. If you can prepare a nice motor car, this is craftsmanship. It is the blacksmith’s work. It is not knowledge. Real knowledge is different, therefore the modern education system only creates dogs because they lack real knowledge of the jiva-soul. So modern education has no real knowledge. Real knowledge begins in the Bhagavad-gita." (1976 lecture Melbourne Australia)

We must all get back to basics and back to where we eternally belong.

That place is Goloka Vrindavana or the Vaikuntha planets that never decay and never fade away.

This temporary material creation is in a state of decay, decline and in need of constant maintenance and is not our real home and never was.

Even for those proud of their material bodily standing and it's accadmic knowledge of even the Vedas (Like the story of the proud arrogent brahman and the prostitute) nothing lasts within this material universe, everything here fades away over time because all things, including our material bodily vessels, are constantly in a state of decomposition.

This material universe is always in a state of dis-repair, it is simply not our real home and not fit for any jiva-soul to stay in.

Therefore we shouldn't even be here!! It was a mistake we foolishly chose to came here from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana in the first place.

Fortunately less that 10% of jiva-souls in the spiritual world make that foolish mistake by volunteering (choose) to enter the material world by forgetting Krsna. 

Actually over 90% of jiva-souls never make that choice and have no interest in forgetting Krsna and then entering material existence.

The fact is, we can never find permanent satisfaction and happiness in this alien environment called the material creation.

Only fools try to find comfort and permanent pleasure and happyness in these temporary material bodily vessels that eventually grow old, diseased and end up being food for maggots and worms.

Therefore, the goal of human life is to get out of this material universe and bodily vessel and not try to make ourselves comfortable in the material creation.

Our only desire should be to go back home back to Godhead (Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana) and also not desire to enter the higher material heavenly planets, or being born in a wealthy pious family within this material universe.

We should be learning from a young age we are the individual jiva-soul within these material bodily containers, and that material endeavor’s for loving relationships, wealth and fame will not solve the main problems of birth, disease, old age and death.

It must be emphasized that the purpose of this very rare human form of life is to get out of this material world and not try and build the kingdom of God without God, like the degraded present age of Kali-yuga Governments around the world are attemping to do today.

Such endevours will never succeed as Prabhupada explains here-

Srila Prabhupada - ''When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Harā, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Record Album 1966 New York City, New York, USA)

Photo above - ISKCON Gurukula Murwillumbah April 1986.

The followers of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu who DO follow the words "hate the sin and NOT the sinner" know that Lord Caitanya forgave the abusive drunkards Jagai and Madhi on the plea for mercy by His brother Nityananda prabhu.

We are aspiring Vaishnavas first in this age.

The followers of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu who DO follow the words "hate the sin and NOT the sinner" know that Lord Caitanya forgave the abusive drunkards Jagai and Madhi on the plea for mercy by His brother Nityananda prabhu.

He was reminded in this particular rare Kali-yuga He has come to forgive and save the most fallen above everything else, even the most sinful can be saved and NOT killed by so called Kshatriya that do NOT exist in Kali-yuga anyway.

Lord Caitanya rejected the Varna ashrama system telling us that the REAL yuga dhama today is the Sankirtan Movement of congregational chanting of Hare Krishna.

He said there is no other way in the Age of Kali-yuga.

In this age everyone is lower than sudra anyway, there are no real Brahmins, Kshatriya and Vaishya anymore.

Remember Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu only comes to just "one" Kali-yuga out of every 1000, this Kali-yuga is very, very rare.

In this age the forgiveness of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's patita pavana teaching is far more powerful that the violent sword of a so called Kshatriya.

We must learn to hate the sin and NOT the sinner who can be saved by chanting Hare Krishna.

A disciple should be extremely careful not to commit again any sinful act that might cause difficulties for himself and the spiritual master.

Srila Prabhupada - "A devotee sometimes accepts a sinful person as his disciple, and to counteract the sinful reactions he accepts from the disciple, he has to see a bad dream.

Nonetheless, the spiritual master is so kind that in spite of having bad dreams due to the sinful disciple, he accepts this troublesome business for the deliverance of the victims of Kali-yuga.

After initiation, therefore, a disciple should be extremely careful not to commit again any sinful act that might cause difficulties for himself and the spiritual master.

Before the Deity, before the fire, before the spiritual master and before the Vaiṣṇavas, the honest disciple promises to refrain from all sinful activity.

Therefore he must not again commit sinful acts and thus create a troublesome situation".

From Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 8 Chapter 4 Text 15

Srila Prabhupada - ""But unless one is favored by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot understand His supreme glories" SB 4:29:42-44 purport

Here the distance between Earth and the Sun is revealed

Srila Prabhupada  - "The distance from the sun to the earth is 100,000 yojanas" (8 hundred thousand miles away).

(NOTE - The late Sadaputa prabhu never accepted that figure to be taken literally and has a further deeper meaning. He agrees with modern science view that the Sun is 93 millions miles from Earth and the Moon is 238,000 miles from Earth)

Srila Prabhupada  - ""But unless one is favored by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot understand His supreme glories" SB 4:29:42-44 purport

The polar star of the universe and the circle thereof is called the Śiśumāra circle, and therein the local residential planet of the Personality of Godhead (Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu) is situated.

Before reaching there, the mystic passes over the Milky Way to reach Brahmaloka, and while going there he first reaches Vaiśvānara-loka, where the demigod controls fire.

On Vaiśvānara-loka the yogī becomes completely cleansed of all dirty sins acquired while in contact with the material world.

The Milky Way in the sky is indicated herein as the way leading to Brahmaloka, the highest planet of the universe. (Srimad Bhagavatam 2:2:24 purport).

The individual soul is forever a servant of the Supersoul, and therefore his relationship with the Supersoul is to offer service.

That is called bhakti-yoga, or bhakti-bhāva.

Dhruva Mahārāja offered his prayers to the Lord not in the way of the impersonalist philosophers, but as a devotee.

Therefore, it is clearly said here, bhakti-bhāva. The only prayers worth offering are those offered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whose reputation is spread far and wide.

Dhruva Mahārāja wanted to have the kingdom of his father, but his father refused even to allow him to get on his lap.

In order to fulfill his desire, the Lord had already created a planet known as the polestar, Dhruvaloka, which was never to be annihilated even at the time of the dissolution of the universe.

Dhruva Mahārāja attained this perfection not by acting hastily, but by patiently executing the order of his spiritual master, and therefore he became so successful that he saw the Lord face to face.

Now he was further enabled, by the causeless mercy of the Lord, to offer fitting prayers to the Lord. To glorify or offer prayers unto the Supreme, one needs the Lord's mercy.

One cannot write to glorify the Lord unless one is endowed with His causeless mercy. (Srimad Bhagavatam 4:9:5 purport).

Although the polestar existed before its occupation by Dhruva Mahārāja, it had no predominating deity.

Dhruvaloka, our polestar, is the center for all other stars and solar systems, for all of them circle around Dhruvaloka just as a bull crushes grains by walking around and around a central pole.

Dhruva wanted the best of all planets, and although it was a childish prayer, the Lord satisfied his demand.

A small child may demand something from his father which his father has never given to anyone else, yet out of affection the father offers it to the child; similarly, this unique planet, Dhruvaloka, was offered to Mahārāja Dhruva.

The specific significance of this planet is that until the entire universe is annihilated this planet will remain, even during the devastation which takes place during the night of Lord Brahmā.

There are two kinds of dissolutions, one during the night of Lord Brahmā and one at the end of Lord Brahmā's life.

At the end of Brahmā's life, selected personalities go back home, back to Godhead. Dhruva Mahārāja is one of them. (Srimad Bhagavatam 4:9:20-21purport).

In this verse the word nāvartate is very significant. The Lord says,

"You will not come back to this material world, for you will reach mat-sthānam, My abode."

Therefore Dhruvaloka, or the polestar, is the abode of Lord Viṣṇu within this material world. Upon it there is an ocean of milk, and within that ocean there is an island known as Śvetadvīpa.

It is clearly indicated that this planet is situated above the seven planetary systems of the ṛṣis, and because this planet is Viṣṇuloka, it is worshiped by all other planetary systems.

It may be questioned here what will happen to the planet known as Dhruvaloka at the time of the dissolution of this universe.

The answer is simple: Dhruvaloka remains, like other Vaikuṇṭhalokas beyond this universe.

Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has commented in this connection that the very word nāvartate indicates that this planet is eternal. (Srimad Bhagavatam 4:9:25 purport).

According to astronomical calculation, along with the polestar there is another star, which is called Śiśumāra, where Lord Viṣṇu, who is in charge of the maintenance of this material world, resides.

Śiśumāra or Dhruvaloka can never be reached by anyone but the Vaiṣṇavas, as will be described by the following ślokas.

The associates of Lord Viṣṇu brought the special airplane for Dhruva Mahārāja and then informed him that Lord Viṣṇu had especially sent this airplane.
(Srimad Bhagavatam 4:12:27 purport).

Each and every planet within the universe travels at a very high speed.

From a statement in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is understood that even the sun travels sixteen thousand miles in a second.

And from Brahma-saṁhitā we understand from the śloka, yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām that the sun is considered to be the eye of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, and it also has a specific orbit within which it circles.

Similarly, all other planets have their specific orbits.

But together all of them encircle the polestar, or Dhruvaloka, where Dhruva Mahārāja is situated at the summit of the three worlds.

We can only imagine how highly exalted the actual position of a devotee is, and certainly we cannot even conceive how exalted is the position of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (Srimad Bhagavatam 4:12:39 purport).

The speculators, the jñānīs, go on speculating about the Supreme Personality of Godhead for many, many hundreds of thousands of years, "but unless one is favored by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot understand His supreme glories".

All the great sages mentioned in this verse have their planets near Brahmaloka, the planet where Lord Brahmā resides along with four great sages—

Sanaka,
Sanātana,
Sanandana,
Sanat-kumāra.

These sages reside in different stars known as the southern stars, which circle the polestar.

The polestar, called Dhruvaloka, is the pivot of this universe, and all planets move around this polestar.

All the stars are planets, as far as we can see, within this one universe.

According to Western theory, all the stars are different suns, but according to Vedic information, there is only one sun within this universe.

All the so-called stars are but different planets.

Besides this universe, there are many millions of other universes, and each of them contains similar innumerable stars and planets.(Srimad Bhagavatam 4:29:42-44 purport).

We should always remember that the Ganges River comes from the Causal Ocean, beyond the covering of the universe.

After the water of the Causal Ocean leaks through the hole created by Lord Vāmanadeva, it flows down to Dhruvaloka (the polestar) and then to the seven planets beneath Dhruvaloka.

Then it is carried to the moon by innumerable celestial airplanes, and then it falls to the top of Mount Meru, which is known as Sumeru-parvata.

In this way, the water of the Ganges finally reaches the lower planets and the peaks of the Himalayas, and from there it flows through Hardwar and throughout the plains of India, purifying the entire land.

How the Ganges water reaches the various planets from the top of the universe is explained herein.

Celestial airplanes carry the water from the planets of the sages to other planets.

So-called advanced scientists of the modern age are trying to go to the higher planets, but at the same time they are experiencing a power shortage on earth.

If they were actually capable scientists, they could personally go by airplane to other planets, but this they are unable to do.

Having now given up their moon excursions, they are attempting to go to other planets, but without success. (Srimad Bhagavatam 5:17:4 purport).

Situated 8,800,000 miles above Saturn, or 20,800,000 miles above earth, are the seven saintly sages, who are always thinking of the well-being of the inhabitants of the universe.

They circumambulate the supreme abode of Lord Viṣṇu, known as Dhruvaloka, the polestar. (Srimad Bhagavatam 5:22:17 translation).

This chapter describes how all the planetary systems take shelter of the polestar, Dhruvaloka.

It also describes the totality of these planetary systems to be Śiśumāra, another expansion of the external body of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Dhruvaloka, the abode of Lord Viṣṇu within this universe, is situated 1,300,000 yojanas (10,400,000 miles) from the seven stars.

In the planetary system of Dhruvaloka are the planets of the fire-god, Indra, Prajāpati, Kaśyapa and Dharma, all of whom are very respectful to the great devotee Dhruva, who lives on thepolestar.

Like bulls yoked to a central pivot, all the planetary systems revolve around Dhruvaloka, impelled by eternal time.

Those who worship the virāṭ-puruṣa, the universal form of the Lord, conceive of this entire rotating system of planets as an animal known as śiśumāra.

This imaginary śiśumāra is another form of the Lord. The head of the śiśumāra form is downward, and its body appears like that of a coiled snake.

On the end of its tail is Dhruvaloka, on the body of the tail are Prajāpati, Agni, Indra and Dharma, and on the root of the tail are Dhātā and Vidhātā.

On its waist are the seven great sages. The entire body of the śiśumāra faces toward its right and appears like a coil of stars.

On the right side of this coil are the fourteen prominent stars from Abhijit to Punarvasu.

And on the left side are the fourteen prominent stars from Puṣyā to Uttarāṣāḍhā.

The stars known as Punarvasu and Puṣyā are on the right and left hips of the śiśumāra.

And the stars known as Ārdrā and Aśleṣā are on the right and left feet of the śiśumāra.

Other stars are also fixed on different sides of the Śiśumāra planetary system according to the calculations of Vedic astronomers.

To concentrate their minds, yogīs worship the Śiśumāra planetary system, which is technically known as the kuṇḍalini-cakra. (Srimad Bhagavatam 5:23 summary).

Summarizing the entire description of the planetary systems of the universe, Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says that one who is able to meditate upon this arrangement as the virāṭ-rūpa, or viśva-rūpa, the external body of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and worship Him three times a day by meditation will always be free from all sinful reactions.

Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura estimates that Dhruvaloka, the polestar, is 3,800,000 yojanas above the sun (30,400,000 miles)

Above Dhruvaloka by 10,000,000 yojanas is Maharloka.

Above Maharloka by 20,000,000 yojanas is Janaloka.

Above Janaloka by 80,000,000 yojanas is Tapoloka.

Above Tapoloka by 120,000,000 yojanas is Satyaloka.

Thus the distance from the sun to Satyaloka is 233,800,000 yojanas, or 1,870,400,000 miles.

The Vaikuṇṭha planets begin 26,200,000 yojanas (209,600,000 miles) above Satyaloka.

Thus the Viṣṇu Purāṇa describes that the covering of the universe is 260,000,000 yojanas or 2,080,000,000 miles away from the sun.

The distance from the sun to the earth is 100,000 yojanas (8 hundred thousand miles away).

And below the earth by 70,000 yojanas are the seven lower planetary systems called

Atala,
Vitala,
Sutala,
Talātala,
Mahātala,
Rasātala,
Pātāla.

Below these lower planets by 30,000 yojanas, Śeṣa Nāga is lying on the Garbhodaka Ocean.

That ocean is 249,800,000 yojanas deep.

Thus the total diameter of the universe is approximately 500,000,000 yojanas, or 4,000,000,000 miles (4 billion miles in diameter). (Srimad Bhagavatam 5:23:9 purport).

The seven stars revolving around the polestar at the zenith are called saptarṣi-maṇḍala.

On these seven stars, which form the topmost part of our planetary system, reside seven sages:

Kaśyapa,
Atri,
Vasiṣṭha,
Viśvāmitra,
Gautama,
Jamadagni,
Bharadvāja.

These seven stars are seen every night, and they each make a complete orbit around thepolestar within twenty-four hours. Along with these seven stars, all the others stars also orbit from east to west.

The upper portion of the universe is called the north, and the lower portion is called the south.

Even in our ordinary dealings, while studying a map, we regard the upper portion of the map as north. (Srimad Bhagavatam 9:16:24 purport).

Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu comes to just "one" Kali-yuga out of every 1000, which is once in a day/night of Brahma, which is once every 8 billion 640 million human years.

There are 1000 Maha-yugas (cycle of four yugas) in one-half day (day-time only) of Lord Brahma's day (sunrise to sunset) and no Maha-yugas during Brahma's night.

In this present age of Kali-yuga, Harinam Sankirtan (the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra) is the greatest gift given to this degraded period of earth history.

Harinam Sankirtan is Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s great gift to this particular yuga, His appearance is very, very rare because Lord Caitanya does not come to every Kali-yuga during Brahma's day.

Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu only comes to just "one" Kali-yuga out of every 1000, which is once in a day/night of Brahma. or once every 8 billion 640 million human years.

There are 1000 Kali-yuga’s in one-half day (day-time only) of Lord Brahmas time (sunrise to sunset)

It takes 4 billion 320 million human years for 1000 Maha-yugas to occur during Brahma's day from sunrise to sunset.

There are no Maha-yugas (also known as a Divya-yugas) during Brahma's night (sunset to sunrise).

A Maha-yuga or Divya-yuga is a cycle of 4 yugas-

Satya, 1,728,000 human years

Treta, 1296,000 human years 

Dvāpara, 864,000 human years 

Kali-yuga’s, 432,000 human years.

Making the length of each Maha-yuga 4 million 320 thousand years.

1000 Maha-yugas are in a day of Brahma (during Brahma's day-time hours), and no Maha-yugas exist during Brahma's night.

In other words, all Maha-yugas happened during Lord Brahma’s day-time period, taking 4 billion 320 million human years to occur.

Then, add the same duration of time (4 billion 320 million human years) for Brahma’s night (sunset to sunrise) to make a full day of 8 billion 640 million human years.

So we understand that Lord Caitanya's appearance in just one Kali-yuga, (the same Kali-yuga we are in now), is very, very rare as comes "once" to this earth every 8 billion 640 million human years.

This means Lord Caitanya does not appear in the other 999 Kali-yugas during Brahma’s day (sunrise to sunset)

During Brahma's night, while he sleeps (sunset to sunrise), the material universe experiences a partial annihilation. This happens over a period of 4 billion 320 million human years (Brahma's night)

So one "day-night 24-hour period" of Brahma equals 8 billion 640 million human years as already explained above. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu comes “once” in that 24-hour day of Lord Brahma at the beginning of a Kali-yuga.

Krsna, as His original Form in Vrindavana, also comes to this earth planet once every 8 billion 640 million human years, at the end of Dvāpara-yuga (coming to just one Dvāpara-yuga out of every thousand)

So both Krsna and Caitanya appear only "once" in a day of Brahma (every 8 billion 640 million human years)

Krsna, in His original Vrindavana  Form, also comes "once" in a 24-hour day of Brahma at the end of a Dvāpara-yuga.***.

Nothing is forever or permanent in the material creation, all karma, good and bad is temporary.

Nothing is forever in the material creation.

There is no such thing like the nonsense Christian concept called "eternal damnation" in the material world because karma is temporary.

If the the Christian God eternally condemns the sinful to an eternal hell, then that God is a cruel nasty evil unloving God that must be rejected and their religion condemned!

The superior more advanced Vedic texts tell us all sinful reactions are temporary and the soul is "eternally" given chances to be Gods eternal servant.

”Jivas are NOT generated from a clear sheet of consciousness”

The jiva did NOT generate from a clear sheet of consciousness that is expanding and growing with new souls.

This nonsense idea is impersonal because what condition was the individual soul (jivatma) in before it was generated, appeared or created?

Actually, there is NO creation of the living entity because the soul is beginningless!!

When the word ”impersonal origin” is used it means the non existent or inactive state of the jiva as an individual and then from where the soul is generated which really means where the soul originates from.

Some say, ”they generate from a ”clear sheet of consciousness that is growing and producing new souls” however it is this ”impersonal” concept  that Prabhupada rejects –

Srila Prabhupada - "There is no “ NEW” souls. “New'’ and “old'’ are due to this material body, the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth how there can be new soul'' Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970.

Jivas are NOT generated from a clear sheet of consciousness and there are NO new souls, all souls have always been and NEVER created nor can they be annihilated”

Srila Prabhupada rejects the concept that ”souls are generated from a clear sheet of consciousness”

Also Prabhupada explains their is no origin to the jiva tattva and they fall from Vaikuntha to Maha Vishnu and the He plants them in the material creation, also no jiva tattva ”actually” originates from Balarama or Maha Vishnu rather they go through them.

After some jivas choose to leave Vaikuntha they enter the Body of Maha Vishnu and rests there, it only appears Maha Vishnu created the jivas but actually they only go through Him after leaving Vaikuntha He never creates or generates any jivas.

The jivas were never created or generated by Balarama or Krishna because they have ”always been”, they have always existed only the material world is created.

Sastra says Bhagavad Gita 2.20 – ‘’For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval’’. the word ”unborn” is very clear meaning the jiva was never born.

Also BG 2.12: Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

The jivas were never created

Krishna is the maintainer of all existence in Goloka and Vaikuntha and His material ”creation”.

Both Krishna and the jivas are eternal and always exist together like the sun and the sunrays, one cannot exist without the other.

The jivas are nothing without Krishna and Krishna has no meaning without the jivas as Srila Prabhupada explains in ”Nectar of Devotion”

Both are equally eternal only in the sense of there is no beginning but Krishna is always the Supreme Lord and maintainer of everything

Krishna has 100% of His own qualities, Vishnu has 93% of Krishna’s qualities, Shiva has 84% of Krishna’s qualities and the jivas like you and me have 78% of Krishna’s qualities.

Both Krishna and the jivas are eternal and always exist together like the sun and the sunrays, they are NOT created by Krishna because they were never ”born” they were never ”created” like Krishna the jivas are unborn as sastra tells us.

Like Krishna the jivas have ALWAYS existed just like the sunrays exist with the sun, this is how the jivas also eternally exist.

Krishna NEVER created the jivas, Why? But He is the Supreme Lord, yes true but the individual jivas were never created because they are eternally part of Him like the sunrays are part of the sun, they exist together and are inseparable.

To say we, the marginal living entities, came from an impersonal origin, is not the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

Letter to: Revatinandana — Los Angeles 13 June, 1970

Srila Prabhupada – ‘The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness.

Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.

The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down.

It does not matter where a living entity stays. In the material world also there are different stages of living conditions, and to remain in the brahman effulgence is also another phase of that fallen condition.

Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that conditioned souls by their pious activities are elevated to the higher planetary system, but as soon as the stock of pious activities is finished he again comes down on the earthly planet.

Similarly those who are elevated beyond the planetary system to the brahman effulgence, they are also prone to fall down as much as a living entity from the higher planetary system.

As such those who are thinking that they are liberated by being situated in brahman effulgence are described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam as impurely intelligent.

In other words, they are actually not liberated, and because they are not actually liberated they again come down to the material world as much as a living entity elevated to the higher planetary system comes down to this earthly planet.

So we do not accept anyone elevated to the brahman effulgence as actually liberated.”

Srila Prabhupada - "There is no need of understanding the language of the Hare Krishna mantra, nor is there any need of mental speculation nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this mahā-mantra. It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such, anyone can take part in this transcendental sound vibration, without any previous qualification, and dance in ecstasy. We have seen it practically. Even a child can take part in the chanting, or even a dog can take part in it".

To be Spiritually strong against the many temptations Maya offers, ALWAYS chant -

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare.

Srila Prabhupada - ''When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Harā, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity''.

Srila Prabhupada gives us an explanation of what Sankirtan (which means the congregational of the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha mantra)

Srila Prabhupada - ''This transcendental vibration-by chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare-is the sublime method for reviving our Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

As living spiritual souls we are all originally Kṛṣṇa conscious entities, but due to our association with matter since time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by material atmosphere.

In this polluted concept of live, we are all trying to exploit the resources of material nature, but actually we are becoming more and more entangled in her complexities.

This illusion is called māyā, or hard struggle for existence over the stringent laws of material nature. This illusory struggle against the material nature can at once be stopped by revival of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. This consciousness is the original energy of the living entity. When we hear the transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived. And the process is recommended by authorities for this age.

By practical experience also, we can perceive that by chanting this mahā-mantra, or the Great Chanting for Deliverance, one can at once feel transcendental ecstasy from the spiritual stratum.

When one is factually on the plane of spiritual understanding, surpassing the stages of sense, mind and intelligence, one is situated on the transcendental plane.

This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare is directly enacted from the spiritual platform, surpassing all lower states of consciousness-namely sensual, mental and intellectual.

There is no need of understanding the language of the mantra, nor is there any need of mental speculation nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this mahā-mantra.

It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such, anyone can take part in this transcendental sound vibration, without any previous qualification, and dance in ecstasy.

We have seen it practically. Even a child can take part in the chanting, or even a dog can take part in it.

The chanting should be heard, however, from the lips of a pure devotee of the Lord, so that immediate effect can be achieved.

As far as possible, chanting from the lips of a nondevotee should be avoided, as much as milk touched by the lips of a serpent causes poisonous effect.

The word Harā is a form of addressing the energy of the Lord. Both Kṛṣṇa and Rāma are forms of addressing directly the Lord, and they mean "the highest pleasure, eternal." Harā is the supreme pleasure potency of the Lord. This potency, when addressed as Hare, helps us in reaching the Supreme Lord.

The material energy, called as mayā, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities are described as superior energy than matter.

When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Harā, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity.

The three words, namely Harā, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma, are transcendental seeds of the mahā-mantra, and the chanting is a spiritual call for the Lord and His internal energy, Harā, for giving protection to the conditioned soul.

The chanting is exactly like a genuine cry by the child for the mother. Mother Harā helps in achieving the grace of the supreme father, Hari, or Kṛṣṇa, and the Lord reveals Himself to such a sincere devotee.

No other means, therefore, of spiritual realization is as effective in this age, as chanting the mahā-mantra,

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa,
Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare,
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma,
Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

Purport to Hare Krsna Mantra -- as explained on the cover of the "Happening Record Album" Recorded in New York City, New York, USA December 1966.

Lord Caitanya Maharabhu has come to this special Kali-yuga to invite all the fallen souls to return back home back to Godhead simply through Sankirtan or chanting Hare Krishna.

Lord Caitanya Maharabhu has come to this special Kali-yuga to invite us all to return back home back to Godhead.

Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls, we are all ORIGINALLY Krishna-conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by the material atmosphere.

In this polluted concept of life, we are all trying to exploit the sources of material nature, but are actually becoming more and more entangled in our complexities.” From "The Happening Album" by Srila Prabhupada recorded in New York City New York USA 1966

Srila Prabhupada’s position Includes that we were originally KRSNA conscious - not merely merged inactively in Brahmajyoti consciousness, Prabhupada rejected that idea.

Originally we were all fully "active" Krishna Consciousness living entities in Krishna lila (pastimes).

The following Conversation took place in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples.

Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and "serving Krishna, we have a perfect relationship with Krishna", what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krishna?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.”

Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire.

Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. You forced Krishna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?” Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy”. End of quote

Srila Prabhupada - ” So, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could become the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?

Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.

It is because of free will the jivatma may desire to live separately from Krishna.

This choice has absolutely nothing to do with Maya or material energy because Maya does not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.

But free will eternally DOES exist there perpetually as part and parcel of the individual's jiva soul's make up.

Therefore, it is simple "free will" that allows us to choose to live independently from Krishna and choose to remain in the material creation for as long as we continue to reject Krishna.

Even the leaves CAN fall down from Goloka Vrindavana and Vaikuntha if they choose to do so.

What is Srila Prabhupada’s conclusion on the jivas "original position?"

Why only accept these two comments? -

1 - Srila Prabhupada - "The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha, for it is the eternal abode." (SB 3.16.26 purport)

2 - Srila Prabhupada - "The conclusion is that the origin of all life is the bodily effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (SB 4.30.5 purport)

When Srila Prabhupada also made these conclusions -

1 - Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

2 - Srila Prabhupada - ‘’These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha”. Letter to Jagadisa das,

3 - Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva is originally with Krsna. But even with Krsna “there is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently.” (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

4 - Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” Original Hare Krsna Happening record album New York 1966.

Srila Prabhupada also says it was NOT from the effulgent impersonal aspect of Brahman the jiva originated even though in other places he said this

Srila Prabhupada - "The conclusion is that the origin of all life is the bodily effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (SB 4.30.5 purport)

But then this -

Srila Prabhupada - ''Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness''. Letter to: Revatinandana — Los Angeles 13 June, 1970

Others will also not accept these "other conclusions" Prabhupada also gives us.

They, some from ISKCON who went to the Gaudiya Math who Prabhupada warned us to avoid and keep away from in 1974, foolishly claim such comments by Prabhupada are only said for the benefit of the immature neophytes and faithless upstarts born into a Christian based society who are like children in a kindergarten nursery who believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus as a ploy in his preaching which is silly nonsense that is insulting to Srila Prabhupada's intelligence.

And if that does not work they again claim "We only accept what's in Prabhupada's Books and not his letters, lectures and morning walks" not realizing that many Books are made up from his lectures.

The Brochure (small book) "Crow and Tal Fruit Logic" is an interesting read sent to all Temples.

Crow and Tal Fruit Logic

In 1972, a devotee in Australia (Siddharsvarupa Swami) began saying that the living entities in this material world were originally situated in the brahmajyoti. According to Madhudvisa Prabhu and Caru Prabhu, who were both in Australia at the time, this caused some fairly widespread disturbance.

Srila Prabhupada therefore dictated a response, a typed copy of which was retained by Madhudvisa Prabhu. This is the famous crow and tal fruit message. Madhudvisa has said that it was distributed to the Australian temple presidents.

To say we, the marginal living entities, came from an impersonal origin, is not the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

Letter to: Revatinandana — Los Angeles 13 June, 1970

Srila Prabhupada - 'The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness.

Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.

The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down. It does not matter where a living entity stays. In the material world also there are different stages of living conditions, and to remain in the brahman effulgence is also another phase of that fallen condition.

Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that conditioned souls by their pious activities are elevated to the higher planetary system, but as soon as the stock of pious activities is finished he again comes down on the earthly planet.

Similarly those who are elevated beyond the planetary system to the brahma effulgence, they are also prone to fall down as much as a living entity from the higher planetary system.

As such those who are thinking that they are liberated by being situated in brahman effulgence are described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam as impurely intelligent.

In other words, they are actually not liberated, and because they are not actually liberated they again come down to the material world as much as a living entity elevated to the higher planetary system comes down to this earthly planet.

So we do not accept anyone elevated to the brahman effulgence as actually liberated.”

What Prabhupada is saying is the jivas were previously active ''before'' entering Maha Vishnu's effulgence, he is saying they never originated from that effulgence even though it may ''appear'' they do because of an enormous time span.

They have actually fallen to that effulgence by entering it at the end of the previous material creation or may have entered it as an impersonalist yogi, they have never originated from there or Maha Vishnu either because long, long, long before that they fell from Vaikuntha

This is explained here –

Revatīnandana: You very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the spirit soul then goes into the brahma-jyotir, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahma-jyotir is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva soul, and I go to the brahma-jyotir I'm still fallen.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: That means all jīva souls there are also fallen souls.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: That follows?

Srila Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vibhinnāṁśa. Separated parts. Separated parts, vibhinnāṁśa. You can call it fallen.

Revatīnandana: But we usually think of fallen as being forgetful.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. This is also forgetfulness. In the brahma-jyotir you are forgetful still. Because you are... That is stated in the śāstra, anādhṛta yuṣmad anghrayaḥ. Anādhṛta. They do not know how to adore the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is forgetfulness.

Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ‘’These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha”. Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970

Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” Original Hare Krsna Happening record album New York 1966.

Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down.” July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krishna Loka. When one forgets Krishna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krishna he is liberated". (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

These comments by Srila Prabhupada will never be ignored or written off, many of Srila Prabhupada's disciples and followers will ALWAYS have full faith in these words.

Srila Prabhupada - “Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, BUT because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence". Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970

Srila Prabhupada – ''Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall. Your first question, if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down?

The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime. So there is ALWAYS a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence'' Letter to Jagadisa Prabhu, 4/25/1970.

Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your several questions: Where are the spirit souls coming from? These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha,". (Letter to Jagadisa July 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Even if one falls down from Vaikuntha, his relationship with Krishna is never lost, simply forgotten by the influence of maya so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position". Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970

Srila Prabhupada - "There is no “ NEW” souls. “New'’ and “old'’ are due to this material body, the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth how there can be new soul'' Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970.

Srila Prabhupada  - "The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new'' Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krishna Loka. When one forgets Krishna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krishna he is liberated". (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport". But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going". (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami May 1972 Australia)

Srila Prabhupada  - "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport". But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going". (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami May 1972 Australia)

Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire.

Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. You forced Krishna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?” Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy”. (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?

Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire.   Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.

The jiva never originated from the impersonal Brahman, the material creation or Maha Vishnu either.

If you go way, way, way back then you will see we all originally came from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana and chose to enter the material creation, each jiva made that choice long, long, long ago.

Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada – “Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila” (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami May 1972 Melbourne Australia)

The following Conversation took place in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples.

Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krishna, we have a perfect relationship with Krishna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krishna?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.”

Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire.

Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. You forced Krishna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?” Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy”. End of quote

Srila Prabhupada – “Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila” (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami May 1972 Australia)

 Dr. John Mize – “Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?”

Srila Prabhupada – “No, there are… Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down”.

Dr. John Mize – “So we’re among the 10%.

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. Or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are… Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down”.

Dr. John Mize – “Does Krishna know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Krishna? Yes, Krishna may know because He is omniscient”.

Dr. John Mize – “Are more souls falling all the time?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence… Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, “Where is the criminal? You are constructing…” Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency”.

Dr. John Mize – “The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka) is…?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes”.

Dr. John Mize – “From where does that tendency come?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says,yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” (Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

The above Srila Prabhupada explains here -

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HatiYaOljJ8&feature=share

Although as already explained 90% never choose to forget Krishna because that is their desire and expression of free will.

Yes we know that past Sages and Acharyas say the jivatma can never fall down once they are in Vaikuntha and yes, the fact is the jivas are NOT suppose to leave or fall from Vaikuntha and most never do.

But Prabhupada has further explained this subject matter in detail and has said that sadly some jivas DO choose to leave or fall from Vaikuntha however, he adds, it is only a very small minority who foolishly make that choice, less than 10%.

Dr. John Mize – “Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?”

Srila Prabhupada – “No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down”. Los Angeles, June 23, 1975.

Let's clear one thing up, falling into the material world has absolutely nothing to do with maya or the material energy!

This is because maya does not and can not exist in Vaikuntha. The jivatma’s do not even know Maya or the material energy exists!

However, they do have "free will and the ability to choose" and are aware that this quality is “eternally” part and parcel of the jivatma’s makeup and exists in eternally Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

We do not lose our independence and sense of individual identity once we enter Vaikuntha, we are eternally independent living entities but depend of Krishna Personally or His many Vishnu expansions who provide all facilities in the material creation.

In other words, we are always independent living entities but always depend on Krishna just like the Sun rays cannot exist without the Sun.

The fact is because we can "choose to be with Krishna or reject Him", then there can also be increasing and expanding endeavors of amazing loving exchange due to that “choice”.

This is one of the reasons why the material universe was created - to give "reality" to that choice of rejecting and forgetting Krishna, this is an important point to understand, the living entity CAN also choose to leave Vaikuntha if they want and try to enjoy independently without being conscious of Krishna’s existence.

To enter that place where one can forget Krishna (if they choose) is called the material creation.

The marginal living entity or jivatma must have the free will to choose Krishna instead of just being in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana  without no choice.

The point made here is the position of the jivatma in Vaikuntha must be voluntary, they must also want to be there voluntarily serving Krishna.

There is always a choice.

The fact is, who you love and who you choose to serve MUST be voluntary and must be your choose and no one elses including God.

Many cannot understand these facts about the importance of free will, individuality, identity and the sense of self worth of being a unique person who can give selfless ever increasing love or service in their own way to Krishna in the mood of reciprocation.

Just like the Sunrays have no existence or meaning without the Sun and the Sun has no meaning without the sunray

Similarly, there is no meaning to Krishna without the living entities as Srila Prabhupada explains in his "Nectar of Devotion"

The qualities of the individual marginal living entity is based on the importance of the individual jiva's ability to make their own "choices" as the individual independent person they eternally are.

This is called "free will" meaning "one has the ability to choose".

Once again, to be truly free there MUST be choice, meaning even choosing to be in Vaikuntha serving the Lord is also the Jivas choice and NOT Krishna's or ever forced by Krishna.

This means, if one chooses, they can forget Krishna and enter the "material creation."

The jiva MUST have the right to "remembering Krishna or forgetting Krishna or choose right or wrong

Such choice to leave Goloka Vrindavana has nothing to do with Maya because Maya and the material energy does not exist in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

Therefore Maya CANNOT ever tempt the jivatma in one's spiritual body in the perpetual aspect of the Spiritual Sky.

Without the jivatma’s being able to choose to be with Krishna or not be with Him, then there can never be genuine love, service or devotion.

Krishna would never say -

"Once the jiva enters Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana I promise they will NEVER again enter the material creation with selfish desires"

No, that is NOT Krishna's position to make choices for the marginal living entity because He gave the jivatma the right to ALWAYS make their own decisions and choices!!

Only fools, no matter how great a devotee they are SUPPOSE to be, would believe the nonsense that once reaching Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana the jivatma will never ever again fall down.

Actually this IS true if the jivatma makes that choice to not fall down.

This is what past great devotees and  Acharays are really saying and mean-

"Once reaching Goloka Vrindavana or Vaikuntha, the jivatma will never again fall down to the material creation "IF THAT IS THEIR"CHOICE"

Srila Prabhupada has said to force love is called rape.

Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could become the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?

Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire.   Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.

In Srimad Bhagavatam the fall of the jiva from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana to the material creation is explained.

This is found in the 4th Canto where the Supreme Lord is disguised as a brahmana -

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4.28.53,

''The brāhmaṇa continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world''.

The Jivatma never originated from the impersonal Brahman, the material creation or Maha Vishnu. If you go way, way, way, way back, then you will see we all originally came from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana and "chose" to enter the material creation.

The Jivatma never originated from the impersonal Brahman, the material creation or Maha Vishnu.

If you go way, way, way back then you will see we all originally came from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana and chose to enter the material creation.

Each jiva made that choice long, long, long ago.

Srila Prabhupada – “Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila” (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami May 1972 Melbourne Australia)

In Srimad Bhagavatam the fall of the jiva from Vaikuntha to the material creation is explained.

This is found in the 4th Canto where the Supreme Lord is disguised as a brahmana -

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4.28.53,

''The brāhmaṇa continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world''. End of quote.