Gauragopala Das ACBSP

Thursday, March 9, 2023

KADAMBA KANANA SWAMI "He reasons ill who says that Vaisnavas die, When thou art living still in sound! The Vaisnavas die to live, and living try. To spread the holy name around."

Can the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) fall down from the spiritual world?

To make the blanket nonsense sentimental comment that "not even the leaves fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana," does NOT make sense because it does not take into consideration the "free will" of the jiva-souls.

Those naive devotees who believe that once a jiva-soul is in Vaikuntha, they will never fall down, should remember what Prabhupada said, that yes, over 90% of jiva-souls never do fall down from the spiritual world and enter the material creation, because "they choose not to leave or fall down."

The jiva-souls always have a choice.

Therefore, to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana and enter the material creation is ultimately the jiva-soul's choice too and not just Krsnas.

The fact is, Krsna does not interfere with the jiva-souls choice, even though Krsna has promised there is no return to the material creation, there is return if the jiva-soul chooses. Return to the material world is there if the jiva-souls want to return, Prabhupada explains here-

Acyutananda – “But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming to the spiritual world, he never returns to the temporary material creation. He can return?"

Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he can return."

Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God. God has got full independence, but you have got independence too, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)

Paramahamsa - "But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return to the material world?

Srila Prabhupada - "There IS return, that is voluntary, return is there."

Paramahamsa - "If we want."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."

Paramahamsa - "So we can come to the spiritual world and return?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."

Paramahamsa - "Fall down?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, as soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice, Krsna says, yes, you go and enjoy the material world, otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy separately." It is free will. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that."

Paramahamsa - "So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these material bodies; and our desire to achieve Krsna brings us to our natural position."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Returning home back to Godhead is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains as follows, that choice to stay or go is also the jiva-souls choice too, it is not just a "one-way" decision that Krsna only makes, no, real loving exchanges can only exist in a "two-way" relationship and will never exist unless "two" are involved in the decision making.

Without free will there is only slavery and exploitation.

Krsna's promise in Bhagavad Gita that the jiva-souls will never again fall down to the material creation from the spiritual world once in the spiritual world, will only work if the jiva-souls agree to accept that promise.

Not every jiva-soul will accept Krsna's promise.

For loving devotion to truly exist with the marginal living entity, the jiva-soul MUST have the right to choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at anytime they want, therefore returning there is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains here.

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)

Syamasundara - "But can we predict returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however some do come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)

If "free will" is taken away from the marginal living entities, then they lose the ability to give and accept love, the jiva-soul becomes no better than dead stone or just a mindless robot, slave or drone.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you can go." Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this. It is free will." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

For love to truly exist, the jiva-souls MUST have their free will, as part and parcel of their marginal constitutional and make up, to choose how they want to serve Krsna with voluntary cooperation and selflessness (the real meaning of surrender) in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana at all times.

Dr. John Mize – "Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"

Srila Prabhupada – "No, there are… Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are… Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a soul is going to bell foolish and fall?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna? Yes, He may know because He is omniscient."

Dr. John Mize – "Are more souls falling all the time?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time, but there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence… Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed.

It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, “Where is the criminal? You are constructing…” Government knows, there will be criminal. From where does that tendency come?

Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says,yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like." (BG As It Is. Lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsna Loka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krsna he is liberated." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Acyutananda - "So what made the soul take birth in the first place?"

Srila Prabhupada - "In the first place?"

Acyutananda - "What is the first birth? What is the cause of the first birth."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, that is stated in the Prema-vivarta-

krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare

nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare

We are eternal servant of Krsna. As soon as we want to become master, that is the beginning of our first birth in the material world. We have got independence. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva bhutah—we are part and parcel of Krsna—so Krsna has got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we have got minute independence. Our business is to serve Krsna, but as soon as we give up this idea, we want to become master. That is the beginning of our material birth." (Lecture on SB 5.5.2, Hyderabad, April 11, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from? These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down "The relationship with Krsna is never lost, it is simply forgotten by the influence of maya, so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 02/27/1970)

What does the jiva-souls being "marginal" mean?

The marginal platform means the eternal jiva-souls belong to that category of marginal living entities (meaning they are influenced by either the spiritual energy, or material energy eternally), explained as follows by Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-souls are marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom." (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls). Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Massachusetts, 25 April, 1969)

The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls exist sometimes under the influence of the spiritual energy, or sometimes under the material energy.

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals." (Lecture on BG 9.4 -Melbourne, April 23, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva-souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva-soul is called as Krsna’s marginal energy." (Letter to Rayarama, Dec 2, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada - "The "immediate" expansions of the Lord are called svāṁśa or personal direct expansions (Visnu-tattva who are Krsna playing another role in His own pastimes) The "separated" expansions of the Lord are called vibhinnāṁśa - (jiva-tattva or the independent jiva-souls (marginal living entities) like us." (From BG 10.37, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position." (BG As It Is, Introduction)

Srila Prabhupada - "Originally everyone (all marginal living entities or jiva-souls) are nitya-siddha which means eternally liberated." (SB Class 7.9.4 - Mayapur, Feb 18, 1977)

Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body." (Germany, June 22, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada – "In the Padma Purana, wherein it is said that there are two kinds of spiritual entities; one is called the jiva, and the other is called the Supreme Lord." (87th Ch of Krsna Book, Prayers by the Personified Vedas)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG on Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Hare Krsna Happening record album, New York Dec 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada - ''The actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha, because God is eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal. So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sadhana-siddha." (Caitanya-caritamrta lecture July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them. It is a difficult task." (New York lecture on Caitanya Caritamrta, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada – Regarding your several questions: Where are the spirit souls coming from that are taking microbe bodies? It is not a matter of any particular body. These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no “ NEW” soul. “New'’ and “old'’ are due to this material body, but the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be new soul?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "The relationship with Krsna is never lost, it is simply forgotten by the influence of maya, so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 02/27/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva-soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva-souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva-soul is called as Krsna’s marginal energy." (Letter to Rayarama, Dec 2, 1968)

Loving relationships and expressions of love are always a "two way street" based on reciprocation and loving exchanges, it is never a slave domineering master relationship that only destroys one's free will and independence to express yourself as a unique individual.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, personally. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture on SB Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Love means two.

Srila Prabhupada - "Their (impersonalist) philosophy is oneness. So how there can be love, one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience? Love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He's so lover of you that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture on SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3 - Paris, June 12, 1974)

The jiva-soul in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, never lose their free will, which means their own individual ability of self expression when choosing to offer their own personal contributions that is unique to each of the individual jiva-soul or jiva-tattva.

Sadly, as said above a small minority do choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavan (less than 10%)

To say those in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana will "never ever fall down IS true, but ONLY for those who choose not to fall down.

In other words, if the jiva-souls wants to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana and enter the material creation, they certainly can.

For those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana have NOT understood these clear points explained by Prabhupada.*^*.

Tuesday, March 7, 2023

Service to Krsna is always voluntary, He is more pleased by His devotees when they serve the servants of the servants of His servants.

Krsna allows the jiva-souls to express themselves in their own unique way. Serving Krsna via His pure devotees is a choice the jiva-souls can make and is NEVER forced by Krsna.

Loving exchanges can only happen when voluntary reciprocation between "two-persons" occurs, where the jiva-souls can also "voluntarily" choose a service they prefer, instead of being forced to obey every demand without personal contributions.

Sadly, they are told they are doing what Krsna wants, or what His so called representative (spiritual master) wants, without first being encouraged to voluntarily express a service they choose to do.

This is what being a PERSON means, where one learns to communicate as an individual person instead of being forcefully told with hash words to "surrender" your intelligence, your free will and just let Krsna flow through you controlling your every thoughts and actions.

No, denying one's own unique individual personality by attempting to extinguish it under the heading of "surrendering" to the spiritual Master and Krsna, is impersonalism.

Actually this type of "surrender" denies the devotee to voluntarily offer their own personal contributions and be properly trained to express their unique independent personality that is ALWAYS separate from Krsna's Personality.

Being demanded by crazy cult leaders (bogus swamis, sannyasis and so called devotees) to abandon your unique sense of individual identity, personality, character and ability of self expression, and then letting these crazy cult manipulators do all the thinking for you, is the worst type of exploitation and abuse that only leads to spiritual suicide.

Srila Prabhupada - "To lose your independence is force, in Bengali it is said, if you catch one girl or boy and demand they love you, they love me otherwise I will kill you, is that love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you! Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver, you love me, otherwise I shall kill you! That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force! That is rape! Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C)

Real love or service is based on a "two-way" expression where the student Vaisnava is carefully nurtured to achieve the personal goal of voluntary loving exchanges with Krsna that are the foundations of pure devotional service.

Genuine voluntary loving exchanges with Krsna can only be fully expressed when the jiva-souls realize they each have their independent individual freedom and unique personality separate from Krsna's Personality endorsed with free will.

Without free will, one would never have the vision to intelligently contribute in their relationship with Kṛṣṇa, increasing and expanding one's awareness of who they are as a contributing independent marginal living entity (jiva-soul)

Bali Mardana - "An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that an example of free will?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa." (Morning Walk, Jan 22, 1974, Hawaii)

So without free will, one is no better than dead stone that is unable to voluntarily receive or give love.

Swedish man - "Is there free will?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, just like you are sitting here. If you don’t like, you can go away. That’s your free will. There is free will, we are part and parcel of God, therefore we have got minute quantity of freedom." (Temple lecture Stockholm Sweden 1974)

Srila Prabhupada explains "free will," and why the jiva-souls always have their free will, but only fully realized in Goloka Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha planets.

Having free will in the spiritual world is necessary for the jiva-souls so they can voluntarily express themselves in their own unique way making one's relationship with Krsna a "two-sided" affair of loving exchanges, cooperation and reciprocation.

Association between the devotee, Guru and Krsna is never an impersonal "one-sided" puppet on a string forceful domination, where an aspiring devotee is foolishly told to forget themselves and their personal contributions, and just let Krsna flow through them, controlling all their thoughts and actions.

No, such nonsense is impersonalism and is attempting to extinguish the devotees individuality the goal of self expression and learning how to voluntarily contribute to their relationship with Krsna.

The idea that surrender means forgetting yourself and your free will (being able to voluntarily express yourself) by allowing Krsna to take complete control of your thoughts and actions, is not only impersonalism but also spiritual suicide.

Srila Prabhupāda – "Unless there are "two-persons," where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. Therefore love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, so there must be lover, there must be beloved. We must understand that love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No, it is not good, that is not love, that is exploitation and forced obedience. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (1966 - 1974, Vaniquotes)

Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness. So how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture on SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

Krsna always serves His pure devotees far more than they can ever serve Him! However, such pure devotees are extremely rare in the material world.

The mundane cold loveless slave/master "impersonal relationship of convenience" between individuals in these crazy cults does not exists in Goloka Vrindavana or Vaikuntha (The Kingdoms of God). In the REAL spiritual world there are always deep loving exchanges of emotions and reciprocation going on between Krsna and His dear friends, family members and inhabitants of Vrindavana.

Reciprocation and loving exchanges between two are the only foundation of spiritual life because "love" can never exist in a "one-sided" relationship. It is never a "one-way street" of just obey, obey obey and do what you are told, no, that impersonal reaction will only deny and restrict the jiva-soul's individual voluntary contributions of sharing of one's unique abilities.

No two jiva-souls are the same in the Spiritual Sky (both spiritual and material worlds), every jiva-soul is "unique" with their own personality, individuality in their relationship with Krsna.

How boring would Goloka-Vrindavan be if every jiva-soul in God's Kingdom cooked food preparation in exactly the same way all the time being like a mindless robot in an assembly line.

That version of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, the Kingdoms of God, should be rejected because it impersonalism!

That "impersonal" version of "surrender," prominent in the 1970s to the 1990s, represented by many nonsense religious cults (sangas) and their bogus spiritual masters, including Rtvik nonsense, are all just mindless concocted dangerous versions of religion not bonafide by authoritized scriptures.

It is in those groups the cult congregation of devotees are told, under the disguise of "surrender," to extinguish their individual identity, free will and acts of voluntary service, as a independent contributor, instead just being told what to do and how think like a mindless drone.

No, love between the devotee, Krsna and Guru can never exist in a selfish, domineering relationship, that is a "one-sided" and impersonal like that.

That kind of unproductive impersonalism denies loving reciprocation, voluntary contributions and individual personal exchanges of intimacy between Krsna and his servants.

The fact is, this kind of nonsense mindless surrender that denies personal contributions and self-expression, certainly does not exist in the Kingdom of God of Goloka-Vrindavan or the Vaikuntha planets.

On the spiritual level of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, one never denies, or attempts to extinguish their free will or individuality, thinking that is becoming selfless, or is the real meaning of "surrender."

Being Krsna's mindless drone by giving up your free will is not the meaning of surrender, it is actually spiritual suicide as said above.

Being the unique person one eternally is, and having the free will that allows one to give the very best of their character in the service of the Lord, is what selflessness and surrender really means, and is the basis of who one really is as that independent person in both Goloka-Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha planets.

Having "free will" is the eternal constitutional make up of every "marginal living entity (jiva-soul)", and is the standard for all to follow and understand.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will!" (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

The jiva-souls in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana therefore are forever expanding their sense of individuality with personal offerings based on selfless loving reciprocation with Krsna.

It is never a "one-sided" puppet/master impersonal relation with the Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

Real love or Bhakti is reciprocal, as said above, it is never a one way street where surrender to Krsna takes away one's sense of self, individuality and personal contributions.

Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we would miss use it in the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

This is important to understand because each individual jiva-soul has their own independent personality, sense of self and unique characteristics that they only individually have, that is part and parcel of each individual marginal living entities make up as the independent eternal "person" they are.

Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence, so God does not interfere with your little independence." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna save me from miss using my free will?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me." Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C. USA)

Only sentimental silly fools believe the jiva-souls can never fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.

Paramahamsa - "But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return to the material world?

Srila Prabhupada - "There IS return, that is voluntary, return is there."

Paramahamsa - "If we want."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."

Paramahamsa - "So we can come to the spiritual world and return?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."

Paramahamsa - "Fall down?"

Paramahamsa - "So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these material bodies; and our desire to achieve Krsna brings us to our natural position."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we would miss use it?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is "free will." Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Discussions with Srila Prabhupada and Rene Descartes 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is "voluntary." Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, May 20, 1975).^^^.

Sunday, March 5, 2023

The individual jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are eternal PERSONS and have always existed and were NEVER created with the unique quality of "free will" which means voluntary expressing themselves independent of Krsna's will.

This is a paradox, Krsna knows everything because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes.

There are no new jiva-souls being created because each individual jiva-soul is beginningless and endless.

Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-souls are marginal which means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious (unnatural) condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, (their natural eternal constitution) that is their original position and life of freedom." (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

So, how can the eternal individual jiva-souls fall down from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana?

All the individual jiva-soul's desires and voluntary services, are meant to be centred around Visnu in the Vaikuntha planets, and Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavana.

In the spiritual world one can never be influenced by maya or material energy because maya and the material energy, including "material" desires" do NOT exist there however, there are always desires and free will in the spiritual world.

Devotee - "Is material desires the cause of fall down or is it misuse of free will?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will, if you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva dasa- "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita Chapter 2 text 20 reveals." (Lecture BG, Ch 9 text 4 Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG 2.12)

The individual jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa have always existed and were NEVER created.

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind." (BG, Ch 2 text 23)

All individual jīva-souls are ETERNAL persons as a spiritual bodily form, therefore there are no new jiva-souls being created due to the fact they have ALWAYS existed because they are beginningless and endless.

The full potential and original infinite feature of all individual marginal living entities (jiva-souls) is a two arm form like Krsna's Bodily Form.

Srila Prabhupada - "The human form is the full manifestation of the individual jiva-soul." (Melb, May 20, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14 Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri dasa – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – [describing material form first]: "Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri dasa - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

Devotee - "I want to know exactly what is the form of the spiritual body, if the spirit soul (jiva-soul) is non-material, what is the form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand, you have got leg; therefore your pant has got leg. Therefore, it is to be assumed that the spirit soul has got form, and it has developed into hands, legs, heads, everything. It is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14 Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

HERE HERE HERE HERE

Devotee - "Śrīla Prabhupāda, you state that spirit soul has form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Devotee - "Otherwise, how is the material body grown to accommodate the spirit soul? Just like a shirt has no form, but when it's put on the body, it takes the shapes of the body. Does that mean that the spirit soul has the shape of the body that is accommodating it?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, you have got body, a shape, very minute shape that we cannot see, we cannot measure. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "anumeyam," what is that word used? Aprameyam, you cannot measure but it has a form. What is the length and breadth of that form? That is not in your power, but it is not material. If you have spiritual power then you can measure it. And that measurement is also given in the śāstra. What is that?

One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Hair is a very small point. And divide it into ten thousand parts. That one part is the measure, magnitude of the soul.

keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya

śatadhā kalpitasya ca

jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ

sa cānantyāya kalpate

(CC Madhya 19.140)

Everything is there. But you have no eyes to see, how to see one ten-thousandth portion of the top of the hair? You cannot see even the original top of the hair. Everything is there. We must have the proper eyes." (Lecture on SB Canto 1 Ch 16 text 24 - Hawaii, Jan 20, 1974)*

Saturday, March 4, 2023

Understanding the jiva-soul's as eternal "PERSONS" who ARE a perpetual spiritual bodily form. The impersonalist and mayavadis deny they ARE an eternal bodily spiritual form.

Srila Prabhupāda - "The impersonal conception of the Supreme is so detrimental to the path of devotional service that it is very difficult to associate with the stubborn nondevotees, who always think in terms of material conceptions.

Impersonalists always think backwards. They think that because there is form in matter, spirit should be formless; because in matter there is sleep, in spirit there cannot be sleep; and because the sleeping of the Deity is accepted in arcanā worship, the arcanā is māyā.

All these thoughts are basically material. To think either positively or negatively is still thinking materially. Knowledge accepted from the superior source of the Vedas is standard." (SB, Canto 3 Ch 9 text 21, Purport)

The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) is a two arm form like Krsna's Bodily Form.

Srila Prabhupada - "The human form is the full manifestation of the jiva-soul." (Melb, May 20, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2.14 - Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, May 20, 1975)

Srila Prabhupāda - "The impersonal conception of the Supreme is so detrimental to the path of devotional service that it is very difficult to associate with the stubborn nondevotees, who always think in terms of material conceptions. Impersonalists always think backwards. They think that because there is form in matter, spirit should be formless; because in matter there is sleep, in spirit there cannot be sleep; and because the sleeping of the Deity is accepted in arcanā worship, the arcanā is māyā. All these thoughts are basically material. To think either positively or negatively is still thinking materially. Knowledge accepted from the superior source of the Vedas is standard." (SB, Canto 3 Ch 9 text 21, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "Each "person" is eternal like the Lord. Because the Lord says that He existed as a person before the creation (agre) and will also exist after the annihilation, the Lord is a person eternally.

Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura therefore quotes these verses from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (Canto 10 Ch 9 Text 13-14)-

na cāntar na bahir yasya

na pūrvaṁ nāpi cāparam

pūrvāparaṁ bahiś cāntar

jagato yo jagac ca yaḥ

taṁ matvātmajam avyaktaṁ

martya-liṅgam adhokṣajam

gopikolūkhale dāmnā

babandha prākṛtaṁ yathā

The Personality of Godhead appeared in Vṛndāvana as the son of mother Yaśodā, who bound the Lord with rope just as an ordinary mother binds a material child.

There are actually no divisions of external and internal for the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead- (sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1), but when He appears in His own form the unintelligent think Him an ordinary person.

Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam:

(BG 9.11) although He comes in His own body, which never changes. mūḍhas (fools), the unintelligent, think that the impersonal Brahman has assumed a material body and came in the form of a person.

Ordinary living beings (the marginal living entities or jiva-souls) assume material bodies if they enter the materialcreation, but the Supreme Personality of Godhead does not.

Since the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the supreme consciousness, it is stated herein that saṁjñāna-mātram, the original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, was unmanifested before the creation, although the consciousness of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the origin of everything." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 4 text 47, Purport)

The Lord says in Bhagavad Gita As It Is-

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."(BG, Ch 2 Text 12)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, eve r-existing and primeval. He is not slain." (BG, Ch 2 Text 20)

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-souls are marginal which means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom." (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Srila Prabhupāda - "The Lord's person is the Absolute Truth in the past, present and future. In this regard, Madhvācārya quotes two verses from the Matsya Purāṇa:

nānā-varṇo haris tv eko

bahu-śīrṣa-bhujo rūpāt

āsīl laye tad-anyat tu

sūkṣma-rūpaṁ śriyaṁ vinā

asuptaḥ supta iva ca

mīlitākṣo 'bhavad dhariḥ

anyatrānādarād viṣṇau

śrīś ca līneva kathyate

sūkṣmatvena harau sthānāl

līnam anyad apīṣyate

After the annihilation of everything, the Supreme Lord, because of His sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), remains in His original form, but since the other living entities have material bodies, the matter merges into matter, and the subtle form of the spirit soul remains within the body of the Lord.

The Lord does not sleep, but the ordinary living entities remain asleep until the next creation.

(This because they are still "outside" the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavan, where their bodily form eternally exists. And therefore, being "outside" the spiritual world, they are trapped in the temporary material world, or merged as an individual unit [spark] in the impersonal Brahmajyoti, or artificially dormant [inactive and formless] in the material atom)

An unintelligent person thinks that the opulence of the Supreme Lord is nonexistent after the annihilation, but that is not a fact.

The opulence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead remains as it is in the spiritual world; only in the material world is everything dissolved. Brahma-līna, merging into the Supreme Brahman (Brahmajyoti), is not actual līna, or annihilation, for the subtle form remaining in the Brahman effulgence will return to the material world after the material creation and again assume a material form.

This is described as bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19).

When the material body is annihilated, the spirit soul remains in a subtle form, which later assumes another material body. This is true for the conditioned souls, but the Supreme Personality of Godhead remains eternally in His original consciousness and spiritual body." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 4 text 47, Purport)

Devotee - "I want to know exactly what is the form of the spiritual body, if the spirit soul (jiva-soul) is non-material, what is the form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form. Just like this body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand, you have got leg; therefore your pant has got leg. Therefore, it is to be assumed that the spirit soul has got form, and it has developed into hands, legs, heads, everything. It is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14 - Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee - "Śrīla Prabhupāda, you state that spirit soul has form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Hair is a very small point. And divide it into ten thousand parts. That one part is the measure, magnitude of the soul.

keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya

śatadhā kalpitasya ca

jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ

sa cānantyāya kalpate

(CC Madhya 19.140)

Everything is there. But you have no eyes to see, how to see one ten-thousandth portion of the top of the hair? You cannot see even the original top of the hair. Everything is there. We must have the proper eyes." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 16 text 24 - Hawaii, January 20, 1974)

Srila Prabhupāda - "This jagat, this material world, is existing on the spiritual prakṛti. You can calculate what is this body. This body is existing on the spiritual body. Just like your shirt. The shirt is existing on your actual hand. The shirt has got a hand because you have got hand. So matter is impersonal. But because the superior prakṛti, jīva-soul, he is person, therefore the matter appears like a person. Because I have got hands and legs, therefore this cloth has got hands and legs. Otherwise the cloth has no hands and legs; it is impersonal.

And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. This body is just like dress, just like your coat has got hand, your pant has got leg, but either the pant or coat has no leg, no hand, but because you have got leg and hand, therefore the coat has got leg and hand. Everyone can understand this. It is very easy. So the original position of the spirit soul has got form. Therefore the cloth has been cut into form. It is very easy to understand. Otherwise how you get the form? And in this form the spirit soul is trying to enjoy this material world. But it is not puruṣa. It cannot enjoy. That is false. That is illusion." (Lecture SB Canto 3 Ch 26 text 3 - Bombay, Dec 15, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "We are not studying what kind of dress you have got. Now, you are also not studying what kind of dress I have got. We are concerned with philosophy, with knowledge. Similarly, we are not concerned whether you are American or Englishman or African or this or that, a cat or dog. We want to give you Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because everyone is conscious. So that consciousness has to be changed. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170) One has to become clear, clear. First that clearing. So sarva-upādhi-vinirmuktam, upādhi. We have got these designations,

"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am Hindu." These are all designations. So, we have to become free from these designations by coming to the spiritual platform. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. Nirmalam means without any... Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170)

When you come to that purest form of spirit soul, you don't think that your indriyas, or senses, are lost. No. Senses are there. At that time, if you enjoy your senses in cooperation with the Supreme, that is called bhakti, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness." (Lecture SB Canto 5 Ch 5 text 1 - London, Aug 30, 1971)

Devotee - "Would the spirit soul within a cow's body be in a different shape?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, but also has legs but the shape of it now has taken a cow form, and is according to desire (voluntary) Every animal has got like this. Just like bird, it has got two wings, two legs. The animal has got four legs. And the man has got two hands, two legs. So the same parts of the body, they are appearing in a different type. But the four limbs of the body are there."

Devotee - "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, human form, God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Kṛṣṇa, two hands, two legs."

Hari-śauri - "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the jiva-soul."

Hari-śauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Kṛṣṇa as flower; they become flower there. If I want that, to be a flower, I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa," the jiva-soul becomes flower, voluntarily. And he can change his..., from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Kṛṣṇa as cow, he serves Kṛṣṇa as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. Ye yathā mām prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). That is Kṛṣṇa's all-powerfulness, this is spiritual life." (Lecture SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1 - Melb, Australia May 21, 1975)

Srila Prabhupāda - "In Vaikuṇṭha, the people also dress with yellow cloth, pīta-kauśeya, or this saffron color. This is Vaikuṇṭha dress. Kauśeya, pīta, the dress, garments.

Kirīṭinaḥ - With helmets. Kuṇḍalinaḥ - With nice earring. Kirīṭinaḥ kuṇḍalino lasat-puṣkara-mālinaḥ, "and very nice flower garland. This is Vaikuṇṭha dress.

Lasat-puṣkara-mālinaḥ, sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ: all young men.

In Vaikuṇṭha there is no old age, although they are eternal. That is the real form of the spirit. The old age is due to this body, material body. Material thing is born and stays for some time, and then it is annihilated. So up to the time of annihilation, it becomes so old, nasty, bad-looking. But in the Vaikuṇṭha there is no such thing. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. The Vaikuṇṭha planet, because that is spiritual body, that is nityaḥ śāśvataḥ." (Lecture SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 33 - San Francisco, July 18, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "The living entity (jīva-soul) is not nirākāra. Living entity has got hands, legs, everything, spiritual. Just like I have got my body, and this body's covered by this shirt, and because I have got this hand, the shirt has got hand. Otherwise wherefrom this hand comes? Unless the spirit soul has got hands and legs, how we have got these material hands and legs?

Therefore, the conclusion is that spirit soul (jiva-soul) has form, just as Kṛṣṇa has got form, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), similarly spirit soul, jīvātmā or jiva-soul, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, it has got form. That form is also described in the śāstra. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca, jīva bhāgo sa vijñeyaḥ (CC Madhya 19.140). A rough idea of the form of the living entity has been given in the Padma Purāṇa that one ten thousandth part of the tip of the hair.

Now, perhaps we have no instrument how to measure one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. But this is given there. So anyway, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, that this body, material body, is like a dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāny yathā vihāya. As we give up old dress, garment, similarly, when this body becomes useless, we give up this body and accept another new body. Navāni ghṛṇāti." (The Nectar of Devotion - Vrndavana, Oct 26, 1972)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have fallen down in this material condition. But Kṛṣṇa never falls down in material condition. When He appears before us, don't think that "He is also fallen soul like me." The fools consider like that.

Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11) Mūḍhā means fools. The fools consider Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man.

Mānuṣīṁ paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. The fools do not know what is immense potency, background, of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they think Kṛṣṇa as like one of us.

So here it is said, sarva-ādi.

Sarva-ādi means the primal. Primal. And sarva-aṁśī. Sarva-aṁśī means He is the original thing, and everything is part.

We are also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśa, in the Bhagavad-gītā. Aṁśī. Aṁśī and aṁśa. Just like this hand, It is called part, and I am, as whole body, I am the whole. So we can understand part and whole. So therefore He is whole, and everything is His part. He is the aṁśī; He is the whole. Sarva-aṁśī. Kiśora-śekhara.

This very word, kiśora-śekhara, "the supreme boy."

The supreme boy. His feature is just like a fresh boy, but the supreme. Kiśora-śekhara cid-ānanda-deha, spiritual body.

Just mark this description of Kṛṣṇa-

Cid-ānanda-deha. Cid-ānanda-deha means transcendental, spiritual body, not this material body.

Because the less intelligent persons, they cannot think of personal God... Because they think that whenever there is question of personality, it is material body.

They cannot find out the shape of the spirit soul. It is so small that from material eyes, by material instrument, you cannot find out the shape of the soul.

Therefore they conclude that there is no shape. The same example: just geometrically, the definition of point is given, "point has no length, no breadth," because a point cannot be measured by any human instrument.

But nothing can be without... Even the atom has got its measure. But because we have no power to measure, we set aside, dismiss:

"Oh, there is no, nothing."

So similarly, "Because we do not know what is spirit, and we think spirit is something just opposite to this matter, and matter we find manifestation, form, therefore spirit should be formless." That is their conclusion. But actually it is not so."

Hayagrīva - "Aquinas believed that God is the only single essence that consists of pure form. He felt that matter is only a potential and, in order to be real, must assume a certain shape or form.

"Being in the universe have to acquire an individual form in order to actualize themselves. When matter unites with form, the form gives an object its individuality and personality."

A bodily form gives an object its individuality and personality.

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, the matter has no form. The spirit soul has got form. Though the matter is covering the actual form of the spirit soul, the matter appears to have form. Just like the original cloth has no form, but when the tailor cuts the cloth according to the body of the person, then the shirt and coat takes a form. The matter itself has no form. When you take clay, it has no form, but if you make it like a doll, like a man or woman, then it has a form. When the change the clay, and you manufacture a fort, then the fort has form. So form and formlessness is of the matter, but in the spiritual world everything has got form. The spirit soul has got form. God has got form. This is the truth."

Hayagrīva - "Aquinas believed that only God and the angels have form that is not material. There is no difference between God's form and His spiritual self."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, as in the material world any form-man or beast or anyone—in the outward, external covering is matter, but within the matter there is the soul. The soul has form and God has form. That is real form. And the material form is simply shirting and coating over the spiritual body." (Philosophy Discussion on Thomas Aquinas)

Hayagrīva - "He considered that matter was necessary to give the soul form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "No, he has got his original form."

Hayagrīva - "Original form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Hayagrīva - "Which is the form of the body.:

Srila Prabhupāda - "Original form (like Krsna's Bodily, that is the form of the spirit."

Hayagrīva - "Of the spirit."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, and the form of the body takes place on account of the form of the spirit. This is very nice example. The cloth has no form, but when it is cut according to the form of the gentleman, it takes a form. Similarly, matter has no form. When it is coated on the spiritual form of the soul, it takes the form. This is very easy to understand." (Philosophy Discussion on Thomas Aquinas)

Guest - "And it is eternal bondage there."

Srila Prabhupāda - "No, bondage for so long you are in this material bondage."

Guest - "In some form..."

Srila Prabhupāda - "No, first of all you have to understand in the spiritual..."

Guest - Yes, even there is spiritual form, one has to live in certain form, without which..."

Srila Prabhupāda - "That is natural form. That is not a conventional form. Just like you have dressed yourself with black coat. It is not your natural form. So material..."

Guest - "Has spirit no want?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, no want."

Guest - "Without it, you see..."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Everything you desire, it is present immediately."

Guest - "You mean the spirit has got subtle form, though it may be exact form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, yes, yes."

Guest - "Though mind has got no form outside but mind has a form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "The spirit, he has a form."

Guest - "Intelligence is also accepting..."

Srila Prabhupāda - "These are different coating. Just like you have got your form, therefore your coat has got a form."

Guest - "No, I was thinking in this form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Don't think like that way. First of all you try to understand. Because you have got a form, your coat has got a form. You try to understand this." (Room Conversation - Jan 17, 1971, Allahabad)

Guest - "Yes, water, though may not have form, but it has got form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Why may not? Try to understand practically, you have got a form, therefore your shirt has got a form, your coat has got a form."

Guest - "That spirit has this form, no?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, so because originally you have got hand, your coat has got hand. Because originally you have got hand, your shirt has got hand. Therefore this form, the material form which you are seeing, it is coating only."

Guest - "Material form of what?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "You, me, everything."

Guest - "No, "me" means what? A spirit?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Guest - "That is what I say. Any spirit will have certain form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Not certain form. He has got his original form."

Guest - "Original means we are a form from the eternal spiritual realm"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, eternally you have got a form."

Guest - "From the in the eternal we have got certain form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "That is material, past certain form, that is material. But you have got an original spiritual form."

Guest - "Spiritual form is eternally there but due to the bond in the material creation man has taken this (temporary material) bodily form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "This form is being developed according to your mental condition. The form we have is being developed according to your mental condition."

Guest - "Mental conditions are due to want."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Subtle form, subtle form."

Guest - "Those are again due to want."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Due to want? Yes."

Guest - "All these forms are due to want."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Want, that "want" because you are in the material condition."

Guest - "Every person here is in a material body, spirit in matter remains because both are there."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, yes."

Guest - "Now, as we have got a material form..."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Spirit has got no material form. Spirit has got spiritual form."

Guest - "Spiritual form but yet also it has got a material form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Because he has come... Just like you have accepted this kind of coat. I have got a different kind of coat. She has got a different kind of coat."

Guest - "Yes, according to that there is..."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, so as I liked, so I have got shirt and coat. This is material. But originally, spiritual form is the same as you have got, I have got, she has got a form, everyone. That is original form."

Guest - "Now, our question... (indistinct) We try. Now, question of earning also, the definition is not here, being..."

Srila Prabhupāda - "The question of earning comes so long you have got this material form. But from the spiritual form there is no question of earning."

Guest - "In what way we will live in that spiritual form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "That you have to know. That you have to know. Ānanda cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That spiritual form means complete blissfulness, complete knowledge, and eternity." (Room Conversation - Jan 17, 1971, Allahabad)

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions: The spark soul has certainly form which means hands, feet, etc. This we learn from Bhagavad-gita. The body is described there as Vasamsi, which means dress. So unless one has got originally hands and legs, how the dress, coat and pants and shirt, takes such form? Therefore the spirit soul has original form. When he is in the material energy the dress is evolved materially and when he is in the spiritual energy, the dress is evolved spiritually. This is also not very difficult to understand, as our students before coming to my contact, he was supposed to be materially dressed, attached to sense gratification, and after devoting himself in Krsna Consciousness, he is gradually developing a spiritual dress. That means attached to satisfying the senses of the Supreme." (Letter to Rupanuga - Hawaii 14 March, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "In further reference to your question about the form of the spirit soul of the conditioned living entity, there is a spiritual form always, but it develops fully only when the living entity goes back to Vaikuntha. This form develops according to the desire of the living entity. Until this perfectional stage is reached, the form is lying dormant like the form of the tree is lying dormant in the seed." (Letter to Rupanuga - LA, California 8 Aug, 1969).÷**÷.

The meaning of the word "dimensions" in Srila Prabhupada's Books, letters and lectures.

Srila Prabhupada - "The "dimensions" of the universe are estimated here. The outer covering is made of layers of water, air, fire, sky, ego and mahat-tattva, and each layer is ten times greater than the one previous. The space within the hollow of the universe (meaning the outerer Brahmanda universe our smaller secondary universe is in) cannot be measured by any human scientist or anyone else, and beyond the hollow there are seven coverings, each one ten times greater than the one preceding it.

The layer of water is ten times greater than the diameter of the universe, and the layer of fire is ten times greater than that of water. Similarly, the layer of air is ten times greater than that of fire. These dimensions are all inconceivable to the tiny brain of a human being." (SB 3.26.52, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "This spreading of consciousness is limited within one's own body. The pains and pleasures of one body are unknown to another. Therefore, each and every (material) body is the embodiment of an individual soul, and the symptom of the soul's presence is perceived as individual consciousness.

This soul is described as one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair point in size. The Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad (5.9) confirms this-

bālāgra-śata-bhāgasya

śatadhā kalpitasya ca

bhāgo jīvaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ

sa cānantyāya kalpate

"When the upper point of a hair is divided into one hundred parts and again each of such parts is further divided into one hundred parts, each such part is the measurement of the "dimension" of the spirit soul." (BG 2.17, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "Incidents mentioned in the Vedic literatures, such as the Purāṇas, Mahābhārata and Rāmāyaṇa are factual historical narrations that took place sometime in the past, although not in any chronological order. Such historical facts, being instructive for ordinary men, were assorted without chronological reference.

Besides that, they happen on different planets, nay, in different universes, and thus the description of the narrations is sometimes measured by "three dimensions." We are simply concerned with the instructive lessons of such incidents, even though they are not in order by our limited range of understanding." (SB 1.9.28, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "Therefore the material nature is working under the control of the Lord. All of them, under the agency of material nature and under the control of the Lord, are thus repeatedly created and annihilated by the will of the Lord.

As such, before the creation or manifestation of the material cosmic world, the Lord exists as total energy (mahā-samaṣṭi), and thus desiring Himself to be diffused to many, He expands Himself further into multitotal energy (samaṣṭi).

From the multitotal energy He further expands Himself into individuals in "three dimensions," namely

adhyātmic,

adhidaivic,

adhibhautic,

As explained before (vyaṣṭi).

As such, the whole creation and the creative energies are nondifferent and different simultaneously. Because everything is an emanation from Him (the Mahā-Viṣṇu or Mahā-samaṣṭi), nothing of the cosmic energies is different from Him; but all such expanded energies have specific functions and display as designed by the Lord, and therefore they are simultaneously different from the Lord." (SB 2.10.13, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "The Lord in the tripād-vibhūti abode exhibits Himself in two forms, either with four hands or with two hands. The viśva-rūpa exhibited in the material manifestation has unlimited hands and "unlimited dimensions" with everything unlimited. The pure devotees of the Lord worship Him in His Vaikuṇṭha forms as Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa." (SB 2.10.35, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "The complete universe is a manifestation of varieties of entities, beginning from the atoms up to the gigantic universe itself, and all is under the control of the Supreme Lord in His form of kāla, or eternal time. The controlling time has "different dimensions" in relation to particular physical embodiments.

There is a time for atomic dissolution and a time for the universal dissolution.

There is a time for the annihilation of the body of the human being, and there is a time for the annihilation of the universal body." (SB 3.10.10, Purport)

Srimad Bhagavatam - "The duration of the two parts of Brahmā's life, as above mentioned, is calculated to be equal to one nimeṣa (less than a second) for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is unchanging and unlimited and is the cause of all causes of the universe." (SB 3.11.38)

Purport by Srila Prabhupada - "The great sage Maitreya has given a considerable description of the time of different dimensions, beginning from the atom up to the duration of the life of Brahmā. Now he attempts to give some idea of the time of the unlimited Personality of Godhead. He just gives a hint of His unlimited time by the standard of the life of Brahmā." (SB 3.11.38 purport)

Srimad Bhagavatam - "Eternal time is certainly the controller of "different dimensions," from that of the atom up to the superdivisions of the duration of Brahmā's life; but, nevertheless, it is controlled by the Supreme. Time can control only those who are body conscious, even up to the Satyaloka or the other higher planets of the universe." (SB 3.11.39)

Srimad Bhagavatam - "My dear mother, the characteristics of form are understood by "dimension," quality and individuality. The form of fire is appreciated by its effulgence." (SB 3.26.39)

Purport by Srila Prabhupada - "Every form that we appreciate has "its particular dimensions" and characteristics. The quality of a particular object is appreciated by its utility. But the form of sound is independent. Forms which are invisible can be understood only by touch; that is the independent appreciation of invisible form. Visible forms are understood by analytical study of their constitution. The constitution of a certain object is appreciated by its internal action." (SB 3.26.39 Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "In each universe there are Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, the virāṭ-puruṣa and Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. The active manifestation of the virāṭ-puruṣa is described here. persons who are in the lower grade of understanding regarding the Supreme Personality of Godhead may think of the universal form of the Lord, for that is advised in the Bhāgavatam.

The "dimensions" of the universe are estimated here-

The outer covering is made of layers of

water,

air,

fire,

sky,

ego,

mahat-tattva.

Each layer is ten times greater than the one previous. The space within the hollow of the universe (Brahmanda our secondary universe is in) cannot be measured by any human scientist or anyone else, and beyond the hollow there are seven coverings, each one ten times greater than the one preceding it.

The layer of water is ten times greater than the diameter of the universe, and the layer of fire is ten times greater than that of water.

Similarly, the layer of air is ten times greater than that of fire. These "dimensions" are all inconceivable to the tiny brain of a human being." (SB 3.26.52, Purport)

Srimad Bhagavatam - "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is all-pervading, but He is also manifested in different types of bodies which arise from a combination of material nature, time, desires and occupational duties. Thus different types of consciousness develop, just as fire, which is always basically the same, blazes in different ways according to the shape and "dimension" of firewood." (SB 4.21.35)

Srila Prabhupada - "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is by nature joyful. His enjoyments, or pastimes, are completely transcendental. He is in the "fourth dimension of existence", for although the material world is measured by the limitations of length, breadth and height, the Supreme Lord is completely unlimited in His body, form and existence." (CC Adi 2.18, Purport)

Srila Prabhupāda - "The Lord is the reservoir of all cosmic manifestation, animate and inanimate. The advocates of Viśiṣṭādvaita-vāda philosophy explain the Vedānta-sūtra by saying that although the living entity has two kinds of bodies—subtle (consisting of mind, intelligence and false ego) and gross (consisting of the five basic elements)—and although he thus lives in three bodily "dimensions" (gross, subtle and spiritual), he is nevertheless a spiritual soul.

Similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who emanates the material and spiritual worlds, is the Supreme Spirit. As an individual spirit soul is almost identical to his gross and subtle bodies, so the Supreme Lord is almost identical to the material and spiritual worlds." (Adi 2.37, Purport)

Caitanya Caritāmṛta - "Superficially we see that these puruṣas have a relationship with māyā, but above them, in the "fourth dimension," is Lord Kṛṣṇa, who has no contact with the material energy." (CC Adi 2.52)

Purport by Srila Prabhupada - "The three puruṣas—Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu and Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu—all have a relationship with the material energy, called māyā, because through māyā They create the material cosmos.

These three puruṣas, who lie on the Kāraṇa, Garbha and Kṣīra oceans respectively, are the Supersoul of everything that be:

Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu (Maha-Visnu) is the Supersoul of the collective universes,

Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu (Hiraņyagarbha) is the Supersoul of the collective living beings,

Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu (Paramatma) is the Supersoul of all individual living entities.

Because all of Them are somehow attracted to the affairs of the material energy, They can be said to have some affection for māyā. But the transcendental position of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself is not even slightly tinged by māyā. His transcendental state is called turīya, or the "fourth-dimensional" stage." (CC Adi 2.52 Purport)

Caitanya Caritāmṛta - "In the material world the Lord is designated as virāṭ, hiraṇyagarbha and kāraṇa. But beyond these three designations, the Lord is ultimately in the "fourth dimension." (CC Adi 2.53)

Purport by Srila Prabhupada - "Virāṭ (the phenomenal manifestation of the Supreme Whole), hiraṇyagarbha (the numinous soul of everything), and kāraṇa (the cause, or causal nature) are all but designations of the puruṣas, who are responsible for material creation. The transcendental position surpasses these designations and is therefore called the position of the "fourth dimension." (CC Adi 2.53 Purport)

Srila Prabhupāda - "Since all the forms of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are spiritually supreme, They are equally controllers of material nature. Standing on the "fourth dimension," They are predominating figures on the transcendental platform. There is no trace of material contamination in Their expansions because material laws cannot influence Them. There is no such rule as cause and effect outside of the material world." (CC Adi 5.41, Purport)

Srila Prabhupāda - "In the Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa it is said, "The same Personality of Godhead who is known in Vaikuṇṭha as the four-handed Nārāyaṇa, the friend of all living entities, and in the milk ocean as the Lord of Śvetadvīpa, and who is the best of all puruṣas, appeared as the son of Nanda. In a fire there are many sparks of "different "dimensions;" some of them are very big, and some are small. The small sparks are compared to the living entities, and the large sparks are compared to the Viṣṇu expansions of Lord Kṛṣṇa. All the incarnations emanate from Kṛṣṇa, and after the end of their pastimes they again merge with Kṛṣṇa." (CC Adi 5.132, Purport)

Caitanya Caritāmṛta - "If we divide the tip of a hair into one hundred parts and then take one part and divide this into another one hundred parts, that ten-thousandth part is the "dimension" of the living entity. This is the verdict of the chief Vedic mantras." (CC Madhya 19.141)

Srila Prabhupada - "The spiritual planets are also known as Vaikuṇṭha planets. The universes of the material creation have a limited length and breadth, but as far as the Vaikuṇṭha planets are concerned, there is no limitation to their "dimensions" because they are spiritual. Lord Caitanya informed Sanātana Gosvāmī that the length and breadth of each and every Vaikuṇṭha planet is millions and billions of miles. Each of these planets is unlimitedly expanded, and in each and every one of them there are residents who are full in all six opulences—wealth, strength, knowledge, beauty, fame and renunciation." (TLC, Ch 9)

Srila Prabhupāda - "When one is absorbed in temporary designated existence, he hankers after sense gratification and liberation. However, love of Godhead is the eternal nature of the soul; it is unchangeable, beginningless and endless. Therefore temporary sense gratification or a desire for liberation cannot compare with the transcendental nature of love of God. Love of God is the "fifth dimension" in the human endeavor." (TLC, Ch 19)

Srila Prabhupada - "It is experienced in practice that when one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not like to deviate into another form of consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is development of love for Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and this is the "fifth dimensional" interest of the human being. When one actually takes to this process of transcendental service, he relishes his relationship with Kṛṣṇa directly. When there is reciprocation of transcendental dealings with Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa gradually becomes a personal associate of the devotee. Then the devotee eternally enjoys blissful life." (TLC, Ch 21)

Srila Prabhupada - "The preliminary discussions between Lord Caitanya and Rāmānanda Rāya are considered to be like copper, and the higher discussions are considered to be like gold. The "fifth dimension" of their discussions, however, is considered to be like touchstone. If one is eager to attain the highest understanding, he must begin with an inquiry into the differences between copper and bronze, then silver and gold and so on." (TLC, Ch 32)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the phenomenal manifestation there are three stages: the stage of consciousness, the stage of semiconsciousness in dreaming, and the stage of unconsciousness. But Your Lordship is transcendental to all these different material stages of existence. You exist, therefore, in a fourth dimension, and Your appearance and disappearance do not depend on anything beyond Yourself. You are the supreme cause of everything, but of You there is no cause." (Krsna Book 63)

Srila Prabhupada - "The constitutional position of the living entity as a fragment of the Supreme Lord is confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and the Upaniṣads.

The Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad (5.9) states, bālāgra śata bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca bhāgo jīvaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa cānantyāya kalpate

"If the tip of a hair were divided into one hundred parts, and if one of those parts were again divided into a hundred parts, that one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair would be the "dimension" of the living entity."

As already mentioned, this position of the living entity as a fragment of the Supreme Lord is declared in the Bhagavad-gītā (15.7) to be eternal; it cannot be changed. A person who understands his constitutional position as a fragment of the Supreme Lord and engages himself in devotional service with all seriousness at once becomes immortal." (Narada Bhakti Sutra 3, Purport)***