Can the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) fall down from the spiritual world?

To make the blanket nonsense sentimental comment that "not even the leaves fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana," does NOT make sense because it does not take into consideration the "free will" of the jiva-souls. 

Those naive devotees who believe that once a jiva-soul is in Vaikuntha, they will never fall down, should remember what Prabhupada said, that yes, over 90% of jiva-souls never do fall down from the spiritual world and enter the material creation, because "they choose not to leave or fall down."

The jiva-souls always have a choice.

Therefore, to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana and enter the material creation is ultimately the jiva-soul's choice too and not just Krsnas.

The fact is, Krsna does not interfere with the jiva-souls choice, even though Krsna has promised there is no return to the material creation, there is return if the jiva-soul chooses. Return to the material world is there if the jiva-souls want to return, Prabhupada explains here-

Acyutananda – “But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming to the spiritual world, he never returns to the temporary material creation. He can return?"

Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he can return."

Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God. God has got full independence, but you have got independence too, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)

Paramahamsa - "But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return to the material world?

Srila Prabhupada - "There IS return, that is voluntary, return is there."

Paramahamsa - "If we want."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."

Paramahamsa - "So we can come to the spiritual world and return?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."

Paramahamsa - "Fall down?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, as soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice, Krsna says, yes, you go and enjoy the material world, otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy separately." It is free will. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that."

Paramahamsa - "So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these material bodies; and our desire to achieve Krsna brings us to our natural position."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Returning home back to Godhead is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains as follows, that choice to stay or go is also the jiva-souls choice too, it is not just a "one-way" decision that Krsna only makes, no, real loving exchanges can only exist in a "two-way" relationship and will never exist unless "two" are involved in the decision making. 

Without free will there is only slavery and exploitation.

Krsna's promise in Bhagavad Gita that the jiva-souls will never again fall down to the material creation from the spiritual world once in the spiritual world, will only work if the jiva-souls agree to accept that promise. 

Not every jiva-soul will accept Krsna's promise.

For loving devotion to truly exist with the marginal living entity, the jiva-soul MUST have the right to choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at anytime they want, therefore returning there is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains here.

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)

Syamasundara - "But can we predict returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however some do come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)

If "free will" is taken away from the marginal living entities, then they lose the ability to give and accept love, the jiva-soul becomes no better than dead stone or just a mindless robot, slave or drone.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you can go." Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this. It is free will." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

For love to truly exist, the jiva-souls MUST have their free will, as part and parcel of their marginal constitutional and make up, to choose how they want to serve Krsna with voluntary cooperation and selflessness (the real meaning of surrender) in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana at all times.

Dr. John Mize – "Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"

Srila Prabhupada – "No, there are… Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are… Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a soul is going to bell foolish and fall?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna? Yes, He may know because He is omniscient."

Dr. John Mize – "Are more souls falling all the time?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time, but there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence… Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. 

It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, “Where is the criminal? You are constructing…” Government knows, there will be criminal. From where does that tendency come?

Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says,yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like." (BG As It Is. Lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsna Loka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krsna he is liberated." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Acyutananda - "So what made the soul take birth in the first place?"

Srila Prabhupada - "In the first place?"

Acyutananda - "What is the first birth? What is the cause of the first birth."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, that is stated in the Prema-vivarta-

krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare

nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare

We are eternal servant of Krsna. As soon as we want to become master, that is the beginning of our first birth in the material world. We have got independence. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva bhutah—we are part and parcel of Krsna—so Krsna has got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we have got minute independence. Our business is to serve Krsna, but as soon as we give up this idea, we want to become master. That is the beginning of our material birth." (Lecture on SB 5.5.2, Hyderabad, April 11, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from? These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down  "The relationship with Krsna is never lost, it is simply forgotten by the influence of maya, so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 02/27/1970)

What does the jiva-souls being "marginal" mean?

The marginal platform means the eternal jiva-souls belong to that category of marginal living entities (meaning they are influenced by either the spiritual energy, or material energy eternally), explained as follows by Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-souls are marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom." (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls). Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Massachusetts, 25 April, 1969)

The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls exist sometimes under the influence of the spiritual energy, or sometimes under the material energy.

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals." (Lecture on BG 9.4 -Melbourne, April 23, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva-souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva-soul is called as Krsna’s marginal energy." (Letter to Rayarama, Dec 2, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada - "The "immediate" expansions of the Lord are called svāṁśa or personal direct expansions (Visnu-tattva who are Krsna playing another role in His own pastimes) The "separated" expansions of the Lord are called vibhinnāṁśa - (jiva-tattva or the independent jiva-souls (marginal living entities)  like us." (From BG 10.37, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position." (BG As It Is, Introduction)

Srila Prabhupada - "Originally everyone (all marginal living entities or jiva-souls) are nitya-siddha which means eternally liberated." (SB Class 7.9.4 - Mayapur, Feb 18, 1977)

Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body." (Germany, June 22, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada – "In the Padma Purana, wherein it is said that there are two kinds of spiritual entities; one is called the jiva, and the other is called the Supreme Lord."  (87th Ch of Krsna Book, Prayers by the Personified Vedas)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG on Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Hare Krsna Happening record album, New York Dec 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada - ''The actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha, because God is eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal. So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sadhana-siddha." (Caitanya-caritamrta lecture July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them. It is a difficult task." (New York lecture on Caitanya Caritamrta, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – Regarding your several questions: Where are the spirit souls coming from that are taking microbe bodies? It is not a matter of any particular body. These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no “ NEW” soul. “New'’ and “old'’ are due to this material body, but the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be new soul?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 02/27/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "The relationship with Krsna is never lost, it is simply forgotten by the influence of maya, so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 02/27/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva-soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva-souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva-soul is called as Krsna’s marginal energy." (Letter to Rayarama, Dec 2, 1968)

Loving relationships and expressions of love are always a "two way street" based on reciprocation and loving exchanges, it is never a slave domineering master relationship that only destroys one's free will and independence to express yourself as a unique individual.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, personally. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture on SB Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Love means two.

Srila Prabhupada - "Their (impersonalist) philosophy is oneness. So how there can be love, one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience? Love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He's so lover of you that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture on SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3 - Paris, June 12, 1974)

The jiva-soul in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, never lose their free will, which means their own individual ability of self expression when choosing to offer their own personal contributions that is unique to each of the individual jiva-soul or jiva-tattva.

Sadly, as said above a small minority do choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavan (less than 10%)

To say those in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana will "never ever fall down IS true, but ONLY for those who choose not to fall down.

In other words, if the jiva-souls wants to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana and enter the material creation, they certainly can. 

For those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana have NOT understood these clear points explained by Prabhupada.*^*.