Srila Prabhupada – “The impersonalist philosophy is oneness so how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant.” (Lecture SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada – “Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is not love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation.” (Lecture BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City, Nov 23, 1966)

The relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world (The Kingdom of God) is NEVER a “one-way” forced unproductive loveless affinity.

The individual jiva-soul's  relationship with Krsna is always based on free will, voluntary cooperation and cooperative contributions. This "two-way exchange" allows an unlimited variety of unique creative personal offerings of service to Krsna that deepens, expands and adds mystery to one's relationship with Krsna.

Only then can genuine loving exchanges truly exist when it is based on a two-way exchange of feelings.

Śrīla Prabhupāda – “Love means "two-persons," I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, then these things must be there.” (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

The individual jiva-souls, as their full potential of bodily spiritual form on the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana, are forever positively re-inventing themselves by always choosing how to forever increase their variety of voluntary contributions (service) to Krsna.

This is achieved by forever positively discovering a variety of loving ways to expand their individual expression of personal offerings to Krsna in their perpetual unique intimate relationship with Him.

Such a relationship is never impersonal, one-sided or one-way because Krsna always reciprocates with such genuine loving affection with His devotees in “two-way” loving exchange.

Srila Prabhupada – “Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!” (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

Real love (service) is voluntary and can never exist on a “one-way" impersonal path because love can only exists when "two" are involved in voluntary reciprocal contributing loving exchanges.  

Surrender to Krsna does not mean eliminating your individual identity, personality, sense of self and denying self-expression through free will, such a mindless "one-sided" existence only allows a none-contributing stagnant loveless impersonal version of so called surrender to Krsna (God)

This kind of mindless (emotionless) so called surrender only extinguishes the individual jiva-soul's independent spirit of self expression, individuality, free-will and their ability to voluntary contribute and provide individual offerings to Radha and Krsna.

From personal voluntarily self chosen contributions offered by the individual jiva-souls that are different from Krsna's shower of loving affection, makes the relationship with Krsna a two-way mystery of exchanges that only further enriches, intensifies and expands loving exchanges and affection between the jiva-souls and Krsna.

Such personal unique contributions from the jiva-soul's independent expressions coming from their free will, forever expands their personal ability to make voluntary offerings that forever increase their loving emotions for Krsna in a healthy "two-way" exchange of loving reciprocation.

Genuine loving exchanges or service is always a "two-way" street, it is never a "one-way" or a one-sided affair because as said above, relationships expressed in a "one-sided" dominance without having mutal loving respectful exchanges between two, is not love at all, it is cold impersonalism.

Loving service can only really again exist when the conditioned jīva-souls in the material world in the rare human form of life are trained up by the Spiritual Master to eventually reach their full potential as Kṛṣṇa’s pure devotees, where they can again express the full potential of their constitutional right as a marginal living entity (jiva-soul) who reciprocates fully with Kṛṣṇa in a two-way relationship loving exchanges in the spiritual world.

Only then can love or service be genuinely expressed in its natural two-way relationship based on reciprocal exchanges between Kṛṣṇa and the individual jīva-souls.

Kṛṣṇa gave the individual jīva-souls their freedom (free will) for this purpose to establish a two-way voluntary relationship, just so they can express their personal unique loving feelings too, experienced differently from Krsna by each individual jīva-soul in their unique relationship with Krsna.

The fact is, real freedom, or experiencing the full potential of one's unique independent personality, is only fully experienced in Goloka Vṛndāvana and on the Vaikuṇṭha planets, where no jiva-soul is forced to do anything in both the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana they do not choose to do because all service on the spiritual planets are voluntary and never forced or demanded.

The reason why the spiritual worlds are like this, is all loving relationship with Kṛṣṇa are never founded on Him forcing His demands of obedience or even viewpoints on the individual jiva-souls. The jiva-souls must voluntary choose for themselves only then can loving exchanges and mutual respect exist between Krsna and His devotees.

A relationship where a devotee is always told what to do, how to think and how to act, and to only just obey without personal voluntary contributions (offerings) and intelligent inquiry, only makes the jiva-souls no better than dead stone and is impersonalism.

Srila Prabhupada – “If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life.” (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

The fact is, this kind of mindless impersonal emotionless none contributing forceful "surrender" to a so called God, Spiritual Master, teacher, husband/wife or leadership without being encouraged to voluntary contribute service in one’s own personal unique way, is dangerous impersonal bogus suicidal mentality.

The individual jiva-souls must be encouraged and nurtured to only participate in a "two-way" reciprocal relationship of respectful exchanges, where the devotee is always encouraged by the bonafide spiritual teacher to come to the platform of voluntary personal contributions. 

Mindless surrender in a “one-sided” loveless dictatorship is nonsense impersonalism and dangerous.

Such impersonal dominant relationships, where the individual jīva-soul’s personality and character are artificially restricted and suppressed by always being told what to do without personal input, and not being allowed to think for themselves, only extinguishes the jiva-soul's spiritual identity, individuality, self expression and personality.

Such Mayavadi (impersonal)  teachings of attempting to extinguish "free will" in the name of surrender is spiritual suicide!!

Under such impersonal conditions of being denied the spiritual right of self determination, the individual jiva-soul's natural constitution of self-expression, that allows them to choose for themselves what to contribute or offer to Kṛṣṇa, is replaced by a "one-way" emotionless forceful demands of being told what to do, what to offer and how to think.

No, the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana are NOT loveless, mindless, devoid of voluntary individual contributions or impersonal in way like like that.

Srila Prabhupada – “We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, personally. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love.” (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada  - “Also free will means that you can act wrongly if you choose. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will.”

Hayagriva dasa – “A man may know better but still act wrongly.”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will.” (Excerpt: Discussions on Rene Descartes philosophy)

Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force.” (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)<>

The individual jiva-souls are eternal living PERSONS as a spiritual bodily form who can never be destroyed, cut into pieces, terminated in anyway or extinguished because the individual jiva-souls are indestructible.

Srila Prabhupada - "The individual jiva-soul is NOT formless; it has got eternal form, the jiva-soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee – "Is the original body of the individual jiva-soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form, God is also human form, "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible, is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri dasa – "How do we understand then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – [describing material form first] - "Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible, but you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation of the jiva-soul's full potential. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri dasa - "So they are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is always voluntary. This means the devotee can always choose how they want to serve Krsna, and never told how to serve Krsna, it is their choice. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; so they become flower there. If I want that, to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, then he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG, Ch 2 text 12)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change." (BG, Ch 2 text 13)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O son of Kuntī, the non-permanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed." (BG, Ch 2 text 14)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O best among men [Arjuna], the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation." (BG, Ch 2 text 15)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both." (BG, Ch 2 text 16)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul." (BG, Ch 2 text 17)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “The material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is sure to come to an end; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata." (BG, Ch 2 text 18)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 19)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG Ch 2 text 20 "corrected" 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?" (BG, Ch 2 text 21)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." (BG, Ch 2 text 22)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind." (BG, Ch 2 text 23)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the material body." (BG, Ch 2 text 25)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "If, however, you think that the soul [or the symptoms of life] is always born and dies forever, you still have no reason to lament, O mighty armed." (BG, Ch 2 text 26)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "One who has taken his birth is sure to die, and after death one is sure to take birth again. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament."  (BG, Ch 2 text 27)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?" (BG, Ch 2 text 28)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Some look on the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all." (BG, Ch 2 text 29)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O descendant of Bharata, he who dwells in the material body can never be slain. Therefore, you need not grieve for any living being." (BG, Ch 2 text 30)

Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 9 July 1970)

The “life force” (anti-matter) is a collection of "individual living personalities in spiritual bodily" beginning with Krsna and His Visnu/Narayana expansions, His unique stand alone mysterious Lord Siva expansion, and His separated marginal potency (individual jiva-soul) expansions who are marginal because they can voluntarily live in either the spiritual world, or the temporary material world.

Just like the Sun-disc and the sun-rays cannot exist without each other, similarly, Krsna and His individual marginal living (jiva-souls) cannot exist without each other the "Nectar of Devotion" tells us.

Krsna never interferes with the individual jiva-soul's free will of voluntary service, even when they choose to reject Him, otherwise free will would have no meaning.

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly, that is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will exists."

Hayagriva dasa - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is free will, he can misuse his free will if he chooses. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Discussions on Rene Descartes Philosophy)=.

ISKCON today in December 2024, is still at the very beginning of its young pioneering years of introducing Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's great sankirtan to the entire world.

The present immature inexperienced leaders in ISKCON, still have a lot to learn about genuinely caring and guiding the spiritual welfare of all aspiring devotees of Krsna.

Remember, all aspiring devotees have voluntarily given their life to ISKCON, without wanting any financial payment, (at least it was like that in the beginning years of ISKCON)

Each aspiring fragile devotee deserves to be treated with respect and kindness, otherwise, if a young devotee is treated badly, then that devotee will go on and treat others badly too, this I saw and experienced over the years.

In other words, leading devotees and sannyasis should learn how to properly support, nurture and inspire ALL devotees and congregation with respect and encouragement, so they can voluntarily choose to serve in their own unique capacity. 

No two jiva-souls (devotees) are the same, each are unique in front of Guru and Kṛṣṇa.

If this reassurance of self-confidence, where the devotee is always being encouraged to be a contributing individual unique servant, is achieved by the ISKCON leadership today, then each young aspiring devotee will be inspired to voluntarily offer their very best service, instead of being forced to surrender by being bullied and impersonally humiliated into submission in front of other devotees. 

Such impersonal bullying will only destroy the aspiring devotee's fragile emotions of self-respect, self-expression and finding the encouragment to offer their own individual unique voluntary contributions.

So many leaders in ISKCON over the years have cleverly used hash threatening belittling words to destroy the character of many young devotees, by breaking down their individual attempts of personal achievements by making them feel worthless and useless without them, just so they have control under their bogus heading of "surrender prabhu!" 

This I witnessed and experienced many times over the years, and they know who they are.

Such impersonal treatment of an aspiring devotee over the years only deadens their character, destroys self esteem, self confidence and self worth. 

Sadly, this happened way too much over the years in ISKCON. 

Srila Prabhupada – “Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from them, but you don't give anything in return. Oh, do you think that is very good? No, it is not good to use people like that, that is not love, it is exploitation! If I go on simply taking from you, and don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation not love!” (Lecture BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada – “Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!” (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

Śrīla Prabhupāda – “Love means "two-persons," I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, then these things must be there.” (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

Srila Prabhupada – “The impersonalist philosophy is oneness so how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant.” (Lecture SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974).

The eternal natural original spiritual bodily form of the individual jiva-soul is not impersonal, it is like Krsna's two-armed spiritual Bodily form however, the individual jiva-souls can also change their bodily form according to pastime.

The eternal original spiritual bodily form of the individual jiva-soul (marginal living entity), is a two armed spiritual bodily form like Krsnas however, the individual jiva-souls can voluntarily change their form in unlimited ways over their eternal existence.

The individual spiritual bodily form of the eternal jiva-souls, have no beginning point, nor will they ever cease to be because there is neither birth or death for the individual jiva-souls.

Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

From that infinite form of the individual jiva-soul, all other forms are voluntary and possible, such as the four armed form on the Vaikuntha planets similar to Lord Visnu's Body. So, being an inactive "spark in the Brahmajyoti" is already a fallen condition. The original feature and full potential of the individual jiva-soul is an individual as bodily form like Krsna

Man is made in the image of God (Krsna).

All individual jiva-souls eternally are a spiritual bodily form. Only while the individual jiva-souls are fallen, do they artificially appear as a formless impersonal spark, or bodiless individual spark in Krsna's effulgence (the impersonal brahmajyoti)

Krsna is behind everything, both the eternal individual jiva-souls in there unnatural bodiless impersonal conditioned state, and the jiva-souls as their nature personal position as an eternal active contributing servant as a bodily form.

Srila Prabhupāda - "The impersonal conception of the Supreme is so detrimental to the path of devotional service that it is very difficult to associate with the stubborn non-devotees, who always think in terms of material conceptions. Impersonalists always think backwards, they think that because there is form in matter, spirit should be formless; because in matter there is sleep, in spirit there cannot be sleep; and because the sleeping of the Deity is accepted in arcanā worship, the arcanā is māyā. All these thoughts are basically material. To think either positively or negatively is still thinking materially. Knowledge accepted from the superior source of the Vedas is standard." (SB, Canto 3 Ch 9 Text 21, Purport)

Srila Prabhupāda - "Each person is eternal like Krsna is. The Lord says that He existed as a person before the creation (agre) and will also exist after the annihilation, the Lord is a person eternally." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 4 Text 47, Purport)

The individual jiva-souls (marginal living entities) like Krsna, have always existed for "infinity," both are beginningless and endless and were NEVER created, although the individual jiva-soul's existence fully depends on Krsna'a, energies because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.

The individual jiva-soul's original home is the perpetual Vaikuntha planets, or Goloka-Vrindavana, and NOT the decaying material world of repeated birth and death restricted to a material bodily vessel, or a dormant (inactive) "bodiless spark" in the impersonal brahmajyoti, both these are "fallen conditional" states of the jiva-souls.

The individual jiva-souls are eternal spiritual living PERSONS as a spiritual body, they are NOT the temporary material bodily vessel they possess in the material world that is subjected to the cycle of repeated birth and death. 

The individual jiva-souls can never be destroyed, terminated in any way or extinguished. The jiva-souls are indestructible as explained here-

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG, Ch 2 text 12)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change." (BG, Ch 2 text 13)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O son of Kuntī, the non-permanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed." (BG, Ch 2 text 14)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O best among men [Arjuna], the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation." (BG, Ch 2 text 15)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both." (BG, Ch 2 text 16)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul." (BG, Ch 2 text 17)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “The material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is sure to come to an end; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata." (BG, Ch 2 text 18)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 19)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG Ch 2 text 20 "corrected" 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?" (BG, Ch 2 text 21)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." (BG, Ch 2 text 22)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind." (BG, Ch 2 text 23)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same." (BG, Ch 2 text 24)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the material body." (BG, Ch 2 text 25)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "If, however, you think that the soul [or the symptoms of life] is always born and dies forever, you still have no reason to lament, O mighty armed." (BG, Ch 2 text 26)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "One who has taken his birth is sure to die, and after death one is sure to take birth again. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament."  (BG, Ch 2 text 27)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?" (BG, Ch 2 text 28)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Some look on the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all." (BG, Ch 2 text 29)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O descendant of Bharata, he who dwells in the material body can never be slain. Therefore, you need not grieve for any living being." (BG, Ch 2 text 30)

Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 9 July 1970)

The individual eternal jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are indestructible PERSONS as a spiritual bodily form, who are on an endless journey and can never be destroyed, terminated, extinguished or cut into pieces.

Srila Prabhupada - "Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura therefore quotes these verses from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.9.13-14)-

na cāntar na bahir yasya

na pūrvaṁ nāpi cāparam

pūrvāparaṁ bahiś cāntar

jagato yo jagac ca yaḥ

taṁ matvātmajam avyaktaṁ

martya-liṅgam adhokṣajam

gopikolūkhale dāmnā

babandha prākṛtaṁ yathā

The Personality of Godhead appeared in Vṛndāvana as the son of mother Yaśodā, who bound the Lord with rope just as an ordinary mother binds a material child. 

There are actually no divisions of external and internal for the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead (sac cid ānanda vigraha [Bs. 5.1), but when He appears in His own form the unintelligent think Him an ordinary person. 

Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam: (BG 9.11) although He comes in His own body, which never changes. mūḍhas, the unintelligent, think that the impersonal Brahman has assumed a material body to come in the form of a person. Ordinary living beings assume material bodies, but the Supreme Personality of Godhead does not. 

Since the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the supreme consciousness, it is stated herein that saṁjñāna-mātram, the original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, was unmanifested before the creation, although the consciousness of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the origin of everything. 

The Lord says in Bhagavad-gītā (2.12), "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." Thus the Lord's person is the Absolute Truth in the past, present and future. In this regard, Madhvācārya quotes two verses from the Matsya Purāṇa-

nānā-varṇo haris tv eko

bahu-śīrṣa-bhujo rūpāt

āsīl laye tad-anyat tu

sūkṣma-rūpaṁ śriyaṁ vinā

asuptaḥ supta iva ca

mīlitākṣo 'bhavad dhariḥ

anyatrānādarād viṣṇau

śrīś ca līneva kathyate

sūkṣmatvena harau sthānāl

līnam anyad apīṣyate

After the annihilation of everything, the Supreme Lord, because of His sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), remains in His original form. 

However, since the other living entities (individual jiva-souls)  have material bodily vessels made of matter while still fallen in the material world, that matter (material energy) covering the individual jiva-soul,  merges back into matter, and the subtle form of the individual jiva-soul remains within the body of the Lord (Mahā-Viṣṇu) until the next material creation. 

The Lord does not sleep, but the ordinary living entities remain asleep until the next creation. 

An unintelligent person thinks that the opulence of the Supreme Lord is non-existent after the annihilation, but that is not a fact. 

The opulence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead remains as it is in the spiritual world; only in the material world is everything dissolved. 

Brahma-līna, merging into the Supreme Brahman, is not actual līna, or annihilation, for the subtle form remaining in the Brahman effulgence will return to the material world after the material creation and again assume a material form. 

This is described as bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). 

When the material body is annihilated, the individual jiva-soul remains in a subtle form, which later assumes another material bodily vessel.

This is true for the conditioned (fallen) jiva-souls, but the Supreme Personality of Godhead remains eternally in His original consciousness and spiritual bodily Form." (Adapted from SB, Canto 6 Ch 4 text 47, Purport)

Devotee - "The individual jiva-soul is non-material, so what is the real spiritual form of the individual jiva-soul?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "There is eternal spiritual form, just like this material body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. If you have got... You have got leg; therefore your pant has got leg. 

Therefore it is to be assumed that the jiva-soul has got form, and it has developed into hands, legs, heads, everything. It is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say it has no form." (Lecture, BG Ch 2 Text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Srila Prabhupāda - "Every living entity has got an independence, minute, because he is also spiritual atom. We are all spiritual atoms. That atomic, spiritual atomic force. Just like a material atomic force is so strong, so you can just imagine how strong is spiritual atom. In the modern age, the atomic age, the scientists have discovered the force, the power of material atoms. But they have not yet known what is the force of spiritual atom. There is spiritual atom, we are spiritual atom. 

The atom is described in the Vedic literature, the form of the spirit (individual jiva-soul) which we are actually, but ONLY in our "fallen conditioned state" outside the spiritual world in both the material world, and the impersonal brahmajyoti (as a dormant inactive spark). 

In the spiritual world the individual jiva-soul's full spiritual potential is an eternal spiritual bodily form like Krsna or Visnu but can voluntarily appear as any form to serve the Lord.

Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). Keśāgra means the hair, the upper portion of your hair. When it is divided into ten thousand parts. And just imagine. That one part is the spiritual atom. It is so small, it is so minute, that it is not possible to see with our material eyes. 

Even the material atom also we cannot see. When the material atoms are combined into six, then you can see floating in the air through the sunshine which is entering your room through the holes of a window. You can see some particles. That small particle, they are combination of six atoms. That particle, when it is divided into six, that becomes the atom. So you cannot see even the material atom, and what to speak of the spiritual atom." (Lecture BG, Ch 4 Text 11, New York City City, July 27, 1968)

Devotee - "Śrīla Prabhupāda you state that the jiva-soul has form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Devotee - "Otherwise, how is the material body grown to accommodate the spirit soul? Just like a shirt has no form, but when it's put on the body, it takes the shapes of the body. Does that mean that the spirit soul has the shape of the body that is accommodating it?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, you have got body, shape, very minute shape. That we cannot see, we cannot measure. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, anumeyam, what is that? You cannot measure. What is that word used? Aprameyam. Aprameyam. You cannot measure. But it has a form. 

How? What is the length and breadth of that form? That is not in your power. In your power, but not materially. That is... If you have got spiritual power, then you can measure it. And that measurement is also given in the śāstra. What is that? One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Hair is a very small point. And divide it into ten thousand parts. That one part is the measure, magnitude of the soul.

keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya

śatadhā kalpitasya ca

jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ

sa cānantyāya kalpate (CC Madhya 19.140)

Everything is there. But you have no eyes to see, how to see one ten-thousandth portion of the top of the hair. You cannot see even the original top of the hair. Everything is there. We must have eyes." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 16 Text 24, Hawaii, Jan 20, 1974)

Srila Prabhupāda - "This material world is existing on the spiritual prakṛti. You can calculate what is your body. This body is existing on the spiritual body. Just like your shirt. The shirt is existing on your actual hand. The shirt has got a hand because you have got hand. 

So matter is impersonal. But because the superior prakṛti, jīva, he is person, therefore the matter appears like a person. 

Because I have got hands and legs, therefore this cloth has got hands and legs. Otherwise the cloth has no hands and legs; it is impersonal. 

And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. This body is just like dress. Just like your coat has got hand, your pant has got leg, but either the pant or coat has no leg, no hand. 

Because you have got leg and hand, therefore the coat has got leg and hand. Everyone can understand, it is very easy. So, the original eternal the spirit soul has got form. 

Therefore the cloth has been cut into form. It is very easy to understand, otherwise how you get the form? And in this form the spirit soul is trying to enjoy this material world. But it is not puruṣa. It cannot enjoy. That is false. That is illusion." (Lecture SB, Canto 3 Ch 26 Text 3, Bombay, Dec 15, 1974)

Srila Prabhupāda - "We are not studying what kind of dress you have got. Now, you are also not studying what kind of dress I have got. 

We are concerned with philosophy, with knowledge, similarly, we are not concerned whether you are American or Englishman or African or this or that, a cat or dog. 

We want to give you Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because everyone is conscious. So that consciousness has to be changed. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. 

Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to become clear, very clear! First that clearing. So sarva-upādhi-vinirmuktam, upādhi. 

We have got these designations- 

I am Indian, 

I am American, 

I am brāhmaṇa, 

I am Muslim,

I am Christian,

I am Hindu. 

These are all designations, so, we have to become free from these designations, come to the spiritual platform. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. Nirmalam means without any... Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). 

When you come to that purest form of spirit soul, you don't think that your indriyas, or senses, are lost. No. Senses are there. At that time, if you enjoy your senses in cooperation with the Supreme, that is called bhakti, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness."(Lecture SB, Canto 5 Ch 5 Text 1, London, Aug 30, 1971)

Devotee - "Would the jiva-soul that is within, say, a cow's body, is in a different shape?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, it has got also legs, but the shape has taken a form according to his desire. Just like a bird, it has two wings, two legs. The animal has got four legs, and man has got two hands, two legs. So the same parts of the body, they are appearing in a different type. But the four limbs of the body are there." 

Devotee - "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, human form, God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Kṛṣṇa, two hands, two legs."

Hari-śauri dasa - "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada - [explaining also the material covering] "Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible, but you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the jiva-soul."

Hari-śauri dasa - "They are covered in the spiritual world as well?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is voluntary, some devotee wants to serve Kṛṣṇa as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and become flower, voluntarily. And he can change from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Kṛṣṇa as cow, he serves Kṛṣṇa as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. Ye yathā mām prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). That is Kṛṣṇa's all-powerfulness, spiritual life." (Lecture SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 Text 1, Melb, Australia May 21, 1975)

Srila Prabhupāda - "In Vaikuṇṭha, people, they also dress with yellow cloth, pīta-kauśeya, or this saffron color. This is Vaikuṇṭha dress. Kauśeya, pīta, the dress, garments. Kirīṭinaḥ: "with helmets." Kuṇḍalinaḥ: "with nice earring." Kirīṭinaḥ kuṇḍalino lasat-puṣkara-mālinaḥ, "and very nice flower garland." 

This is Vaikuṇṭha dress - Lasat puṣkara mālinaḥ, sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ: all young men. In Vaikuṇṭha there is no old age, although they are eternal. That is the real form of the spirit. The old age is due to this body, material body. 

Material things are born and stay for some time, and then it is gradually annihilated. So up to the time of annihilation, it becomes so old, nasty, bad-looking. 

But in the Vaikuṇṭha there is no such thing. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. The Vaikuṇṭha planet, because that is spiritual body, that is nityaḥ śāśvataḥ." (Lecture SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 Text 33, San Francisco, July 18, 1975)

Srila Prabhupāda - "The living entity is not nirākāra. Living entity has got hands, legs, everything, spiritual. 

Just like my, I have got my body, and this body's covered by this shirt, and because I have got this hand, the shirt has got hand. Otherwise wherefrom this hand comes? 

Unless the spirit soul has got hands and legs, how we have got these material hands and legs? 

Therefore it is the conclusion that the jiva-soul has form. 

As Kṛṣṇa has got form, sac cid ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1), similarly the jiva-soul, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, has also got form. That form is also described in the śāstra. 

Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca, jīva bhāgo sa vijñeyaḥ (CC Madhya 19.140). 

A rough idea of the form of the individual jiva-soul has been given in the Padma Purāṇa that one ten thousandth part of the tip of the hair.

Now, perhaps we have no instrument how to measure one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. But this is given there. So anyway, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, that this body, material body is, is like a dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāny yathā vihāya. 

As we give up old dress, garment, similarly, when this body becomes useless, we give up this body and accept another new body. Navāni ghṛṇāti." (The Nectar of Devotion lecture, Vrndavana, Oct 26, 1972)

Srila Prabhupāda - "We have fallen down in this material condition. But Kṛṣṇa never falls down in material condition. When He appears before us, don't think that "He is also fallen soul like me." The fools consider like that. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG, Ch 9 Text 11). Mūḍhā means fools. 

The fools consider Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man. Mānuṣīṁ paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. The fools do not know what is immense potency, background, of Kṛṣṇa. 

Therefore they think Kṛṣṇa as like one of us. So here it is said, sarva-ādi. Sarva-ādi means the primal. Primal. 

And sarva-aṁśī. Sarva-aṁśī means He is the original thing, and everything is part. We are also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśa, in the Bhagavad-gītā. Aṁśī. Aṁśī and aṁśa. 

Just like this hand, It is called part, and I am, as whole body, I am the whole. So we can understand part and whole. 

So therefore He is whole, and everything is His part. He is the aṁśī; He is the whole. Sarva-aṁśī. Kiśora-śekhara. This very word, kiśora-śekhara, "the supreme boy." The supreme boy. His feature is just like a fresh boy, but the supreme. Kiśora-śekhara cid-ānanda-deha, spiritual body. 

Just mark this description of Kṛṣṇa: cid-ānanda-deha. Cid-ānanda-deha means transcendental, spiritual body, not this body. 

Because the less intelligent persons, they cannot think of personal God... Because they think that whenever there is question of personality, it is material body. 

They cannot find out the shape of the spirit soul. It is so small that from material eyes, by material instrument, you cannot find out the shape of the soul. Therefore, they conclude that there is no shape. 

The same example: just geometrically, the definition of point is given, "point has no length, no breadth," because a point cannot be measured by any human instrument. But nothing can be without. 

Even the atom has got its measure. But because we have no power to measure, we set aside, dismiss: 

"Oh, there is no, nothing." 

So similarly, "Because we do not know what is spirit, and we think spirit is something just opposite to this matter, and matter we find manifestation, form, therefore spirit should be formless." That is their conclusion. But actually it is not so." (Lecture, CC Madhya-lila 20.152-154, New York City, Dec 5, 1966)

Hayagrīva dasa - "Aquinas believed that God is the only single essence that consists of pure form. He felt that matter is only a potential and, in order to be real, must assume a certain shape or form. 

Being in the universe have to acquire an individual form in order to actualize themselves. 

When matter unites with form, the form gives an object its individuality and personality. A form gives an object its individuality and personality."

Srila Prabhupāda - Yes, matter has no form but the individual  jiva-soul has got form. Though matter is covering the actual form of the jiva-soul, the matter then appears to have form. 

Just like the original cloth has no form, but when the tailor cuts the cloth according to the body of the person, then the shirt and coat takes a form. 

The matter (material energy) itself has no form. 

When you take clay, it has no form, but if you make it like a doll, like a man or woman, then it has a form. 

When you change the clay, and you manufacture a fort, then the fort has form. So form and formlessness is of the matter, but in the spiritual world everything has got form. 

The jiva-soul has got form, God has got form, this is the truth."

Hayagrīva dasa - "Aquinas believed that only God and the angels have form that is not material. There is no difference between God's form and His spiritual self."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, as in the material world any form-man or beast or anyone—in the outward, external covering is matter, but within the matter there is the soul. The soul has form and God has form. That is real form. And the material form is simply shirting and coating over the spiritual body." (Discussion on Thomas Aquinas philosophy) 

Hayagrīva dasa - "He considered that matter was necessary to give the jiva-soul form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "No, he has got his original bodily form."

Hayagrīva dasa - "Original form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Hayagrīva dasa - "Which is the form of the body."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Original bodily form, that is the form of the spirit."

Hayagrīva dasa - "Of the spirit."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, and the form of the body takes place on account of the form of the spirit. This is very nice example. The cloth has no form, but when it is cut according to the form of the gentleman, it takes a form. 

Similarly, matter has no form. When it is coated on the spiritual form of the soul, it takes the form. This is very easy to understand." (Discussion on Thomas Aquinas philosophy)

Guest - "And it is eternal bondage there.

Srila Prabhupada - "No, bondage for so long you are in this material bondage."

Guest - "In some form..."

Srila Prabhupada - "No, first of all you have to understand in the spiritual form, not material covering."

Guest - "Yes, even there is spiritual form, one has to live in certain form, without which..."

Srila Prabhupada - "That is natural form, that is not a conventional form. Just like you have dressed yourself with black coat, it is not your natural form. So material..."

Guest - "Has spirit no want?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, no want."

Guest " Without it, you see..."

Srila Prabhupada - "Everything you desire, it is present immediately."

Guest - "So, the individual jiva-soul has got form?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, yes, yes."

Guest - "Though mind has got no form outside but mind has a form."

Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit has a form."

Guest - "Intelligence is also accepting..."

Srila Prabhupada - "These are different coating. Just like you have got your form, therefore your coat has got a form."

Guest - "No, I was thinking in this form."

Srila Prabhupada - "Don't think like that way. First of all you try to understand. Because you have got a form, your coat has got a form. You try to understand this."

Guest - "Yes, water, though may not have form, but it has got form."

Srila Prabhupada - "Why may not? You try to understand practically. You have got a form, therefore your shirt has got a form, your coat has got a form."

Guest - "The individual jiva-soul has form also?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, because originally you have got hand, your coat has got hand. Because originally you have got hand, your shirt has got hand. Therefore this form, the material form which you are seeing, it is coating only."

Guest - "Material form of what?"

Srila Prabhupada - "You, me, everything." 

Guest - "That is what I say, any spiritual being will have certain form."

Srila Prabhupada - "Not certain form. He has got his original form."

Guest - "Original means all the... We are living from the eternal..."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, eternally you are a spiritual bodily form but presently covered by material form."

Guest - "From the eternal we have got certain form."

Srila Prabhupada - "That is material. Past certain form, that is material. But you have got an original spiritual bodily form that is not material."

Guest - "So the spiritual bodily form of the individual jiva-soul is already there but presently covered while in the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, the spiritual bodily form is being gradually reawakened (realized) in the material world as we become more advanced."(Room Conversation, Jan 17, 1971, Allahabad)

Srila Prabhupada - "The material bodily form in the material world, is being developed according to our mental conditions."

Guest - "Mental conditions are due to want (desires)."

Srila Prabhupada - "Unlimited forms, out of 8 million 400 thousand species of life."

Guest - "Those are again due to want (desires)."

Srila Prabhupada - "Due to want (desires), yes?"

Guest - "All these forms are due to want (desires)."

Srila Prabhupada - "Want means desire because you are in the material condition."

Guest - "The fallen individual jiva-soul is trapped in matter and therefore remains in the material world's cycle of repeated birth and death because of these mistaken desires."  

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, yes."

Guest - "Now, we have got a material form..."

Srila Prabhupada - "Spirit has got no material form, the individual jiva-soul has got spiritual bodily form eternally."

Guest - "Spiritual form but yet also it has got a material form."

Srila Prabhupada - "Because the jiva-soul has become covered by matter, just like you have accepted this kind of coat. I have got a different kind of coat. She has got a different kind of coat."

Guest - "Yes, according to that there is..."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, so as I liked, so I have got shirt and coat. This is material. But originally, spiritual form is the same as you have got, I have got, she has got a form, everyone. That is original form."

Guest - "Now, our question... (indistinct) We try. Now, question of earning also, the definition is not here, being..."

Srila Prabhupada - "The question of earning comes so long you have got this material form. But from the spiritual form there is no question of earning."

Guest - "In what way we will live in that spiritual bodily form?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That you have to know. That you have to know, it is voluntary. Ānanda cinmaya rasa pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That spiritual bodily form of the jiva-soul means complete blissfulness, complete knowledge, and eternity." (Room Conversation, Jan 17, 1971, Allahabad)

Srila Prabhupada - "In further reference to your question about the form of the individual jiva-soul of the conditioned living entity in the material world, there is always spiritual bodily form but now covered while in the material world. 

However, it will develop fully (reawaken) when the jiva-soul goes back home to Vaikuntha or the spiritual world.  

This spiritual bodily form of the individual jiva-soul is again uncovered according to the desire of the jiva-soul. 

Until this perfectional stage is reached, the spiritual bodily form of the jiva-soul is lying dormant like the form of the tree is lying dormant in the seed." (Adapted from Letter, Los Angeles 8 Aug, 1969) 

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions: The dormant spark (individual jiva-soul) fallen to the impersonal brahmajyoti certainly does have form which means hands, feet, etc. 

This we learn from Bhagavad-gita. The body is described there as Vasamsi, which means dress. So unless one has got originally hands and legs, how the dress, coat and pants and shirt, takes such form? 

Therefore the individual jiva-soul has original form. When one is in the material energy, the dress is evolved materially and when one is in the spiritual energy, the dress is evolved spiritually. 

This is also not very difficult to understand, as our students before coming to my contact, they were supposed to be materially dressed, attached to sense gratification, and after devoting themselves in Krsna Consciousness, they are gradually developing a spiritual dress. That means attached to satisfying the senses of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa." (Adapted from letter, Hawaii 14 March, 1969).***