it only seems that we are because of the enormous time span in the material creation. In our original position we are all "eternally liberated."
Srila Prabhupada - "Your next question, "Is a pure devotee ''eternally liberated" and if so is he at any time a conditioned soul? We are ''eternally conditioned," but as soon as we surrender to Krsna do we then become eternally liberated? When Lord Christ appeared he seemed to be conditioned in his growth. Was he a specific incarnation or a conditioned soul who became liberated?
You are not "eternally conditioned" (nitya-baddha), you are "eternally liberated" (nitya-siddha) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it only appears that we are eternally conditioned. Because we cannot trace out the history or the date when we became conditioned, therefore it is technically called eternally conditioned. Otherwise the living entity is not actually conditioned.
A living entity is always pure. But he is prone to be attracted by material enjoyment and as soon as he agrees to place himself in material enjoyment, he becomes conditioned, but that is not permanent.Therefore a living entity is called on the marginal state, sometimes this side, sometimes that side.
These are very intelligent questions. And I am very glad that you are putting such intelligent questions and trying to understand it. It is very good. But best thing is that one should know he is in conditioned life and try to cure it.
When a man is in diseased condition he should try to get out of diseased condition without harassing his brain when the disease has begun. But it is to be understood that the disease is not our constant companion, it is temporary. So the best thing is to cure the disease, and not waste our time to find out the date when it began.
Forgetfulness of Krsna is the disease, so let us keep ourselves always in Krsna not Visnu-tattva.
When a jiva tattva becomes specifically empowered by the Lord, he is called saktyavesa avatara.
Lord Buddha and Lord Jesus Christ were in this group of saktyavesa avatara.. But they were not in conditioned state when they appeared; they came to teach here." (Letter to Aniruddha Los Angeles 14 Nov, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha." (New York City lecture on CC, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "The actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha, because God is eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal. So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sadhana-siddha." (New York lecture on CC, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could be come the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He’s protecting. He says, "You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, "If you catch one girl or boy, you love me, you love me, you love me, is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you! Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver, you love me otherwise I shall kill you! That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down."
Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom. It is his desire."
Devotee – "In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?” Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
A living entity is always pure. But he is prone to be attracted by material enjoyment and as soon as he agrees to place himself in material enjoyment, he becomes conditioned, but that is not permanent.Therefore a living entity is called on the marginal state, sometimes this side, sometimes that side.
These are very intelligent questions. And I am very glad that you are putting such intelligent questions and trying to understand it. It is very good. But best thing is that one should know he is in conditioned life and try to cure it.
When a man is in diseased condition he should try to get out of diseased condition without harassing his brain when the disease has begun. But it is to be understood that the disease is not our constant companion, it is temporary. So the best thing is to cure the disease, and not waste our time to find out the date when it began.
Forgetfulness of Krsna is the disease, so let us keep ourselves always in Krsna not Visnu-tattva.
When a jiva tattva becomes specifically empowered by the Lord, he is called saktyavesa avatara.
Lord Buddha and Lord Jesus Christ were in this group of saktyavesa avatara.. But they were not in conditioned state when they appeared; they came to teach here." (Letter to Aniruddha Los Angeles 14 Nov, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha." (New York City lecture on CC, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "The actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha, because God is eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal. So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sadhana-siddha." (New York lecture on CC, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could be come the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He’s protecting. He says, "You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, "If you catch one girl or boy, you love me, you love me, you love me, is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you! Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver, you love me otherwise I shall kill you! That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down."
Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom. It is his desire."
Devotee – "In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?” Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
There are NOT two different types of jiva-souls as some wrongly believe, there is only one who can "choose" to remain nitya-siddha in the spiritual world, or become nitya-baddha in the material and impersonal Brahmajyoti.
In other words, each individual jiva-soul has "two-sides to their personality", they can either be nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) which is their original natural position, or they can be "eternally conditioned" in the material or dormant in the impersonalBrahmajyoti.
Or they can be nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned) within the material creation, or dormant (inactive) in the impersonal Brahmajyoti).
Srila Prabhupada – "In the Padma Purana, wherein it is said that there are two kinds of spiritual entities; one is called the jiva, and the other is called the Supreme Lord." (87th Chapter of Krsna Book, Prayers by the Personified Vedas)
"Nitya-baddha" is a condition the jiva-souls fall down to from their original position as "nitya-siddha" in either Goloka-Vrindavana or Vaikuntha when they enter the material world, and later the "inactivety" (becoming dormant) in the impersonal Brahmajyoti.
In this way the jiva-souls can choose for themselves to be with Krsna, or reject Krsna.
This is because each jiva-soul, as part of their spiritual constitutional make-up, has free will even to reject Krsna if they choose.
The point to understand here is there is only one kind of jiva-soul who can choose to be either nitya-siddha or nitya-baddha.
In other words there is only one category of jiva-soul that can be either (by choice) nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) or nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned)
Srila Prabhupada - "There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha but the actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha." (CC lecture, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "Nitya-baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahma down to a small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddha. Anyone who is in this material world they are nitya baddha." (Lecture on BG, 13-14, July 14, 1973)
Originally all jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are nitya-siddha Prabhupada has explained.
This is because they all came from Goloka Vrindavana, only when they enter the material creation and the impersonal brahman do they then become nitya-baddha.
Therefore a nitya-siddha eternally liberated jiva-soul can become a nitya-baddha conditioned jiva-soul, and the nitya-baddhas can AGAIN become nitya-siddha if they again choose to surrender to Krsna via His pure devotee.
Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha." (NY City Lecture on CC, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them to their original position. It is a difficult task." (London lecture on BG, 13-14, July 14, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The jiva-souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)***
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