Wednesday, February 24, 2021

Srila Prabhupāda – ''Unless there are two-persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

All the jiva-souls (individual marginal living entities) are independent spiritual PERSONS with their own unique personality that is separate from Krsna's Personality.

At the same time, the jiva-souls are simultaneously dependent on Krsna's energies because Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes EVERYTHING comes from Him. From this we understand the individual jiva-souls have their own freedom (free will) eternally. 

This means the individual jiva-souls have the right to make their own choices that even includes accepting or rejecting Krsna. In other words, Krsna does NOT force us to love Him and only do only what He wants to do without personal input.

This is because love or service in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana is NOT a "one-sided" domination and dictatorship. The jiva-souls can ALWAYS voluntarily offer their own independent contributions too, that Krsna will NEVER interfere with.

If Krsna forced His will on the individual jiva-souls, then that is NOT love, that is slavery and exploitation. Love and selfless service therefore are based on "free will" which includes the right to always make independent choices that may agree, or even disagree with Krsna. 

Genuine loving emotions and devotional service can only exist on a "two-way street" in a relationship between two. Our relationship with Krsna therefore, is based on loving exchanges and reciprocation in a two-way exchange. And that loving exchange can only exist when it is based on a "two-way" expression of mutual respect and NOT dominated by one individual in a one-side affair, NOT even by Krsna.

However, Krsna never does that.

The living entities (jiva-souls) are NOT Krsna's mindless programmed slaves of yes men or women who does all the thinking for them.

No, Krsna is not impersonal like that at all.

The fact is, the jiva-souls in their full potential in Goloka-Vrindavana or Vaikuntha, ALWAYS have their choices too of how to serve Krsna, that Krsna does NOT interfere with.

If He did, then loving exchanges that increase and expand loving relations, could NEVER exist. The jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are eternal individuals with their own sense of self and unique personality that is independent from Krsna's Personality.

If Krsna forced the jiva-souls in anyway to just obey and not think for themselves, then that is not love, that is impersonalism. 

The fact is, Krsna does not want unproductive relationships like that basead on forced surrender, fear, abuse and bullying. Our relationship is unique with Krsna and is very personal, each jiva-soul has a different unique special exchange with Krsna.

Therefore REAL love or service can only exist when TWO have voluntary exchanges based on reciprocation and mutual respect. This give a whole new positive meaning for devotees 

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Krsna NEVER forces the jiva-souls to surrender to Him as said above, if He did, then that is NOT love, it is disrespecting and denying the jiva-souls their right to contribute their own devotional mood that will only enrich and expand one's friendship with Krsna.

The impersonal version of Krsna Consciousness preached by some sangas (religious groups), where one is FORCED to obey without ever thinking for themselves by questioning the teachings of even their Guru for a deeper and proper understanding, MUST be seen as a bogus mindless dictatorship and MUST be rejected.

Srila Prabhupada  - "In Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver." (Washington D.C. July 1976)

Srila Prabhupāda – "Unless there are two-persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is a possibility of misusing our free-will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free-will means that you can act wrongly. That is free-will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free-will. Where is free-will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free-will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free-will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free-will. Unless there is misuse of free-will, there is no question of free-will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada and disciples about Rene Descartes)

Ultimately, each individual jiva-soul is a unique PERSON with their own independent personality who can choose for themselves in their  own way how to voluntarily serve Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes, or ignore Him if they want.

As Prabhupada explains, Krsna NEVER forces the jiva-souls to surrender to Him, never forces them to love Him, that MUST be voluntary otherwise love can NEVER exist without the voluntary inputs by the jiva-souls that allow reciprocal loving exchanges.

Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness. So how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant..." (Lecture on SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

Srila ĺPrabhupada - "The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that - "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

When the conditioned jiva-soul is trained up by a bonafide Spiritual Master then automatically he eventually gets his freedom by following his instructions.

Srila Prabhupada - In the material world if one is not intelligent enough for making for making decisions, then all decisions shall be sanctioned by the spiritual master. In the material creation neophyte means no independent decisions, no free will, that means surrender. But when he is trained up then automatically he gets his freedom. Just like a small child can only eat such things which are sanctioned by his parents, not by his own discretion. Free will is that when the controller says do this, you can use your free will to do it or not to do it, you have got the power to not do:

iti te jnanam akhyatam guhyad guhyataram maya

vimrsyaited asesena yathecchasi tatha kuru

[Bg. 18.63]

"Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do." [Bg. 18.65]

Krsna asks, "Have you decided to fight?" "Yes, I have decided to follow Your order." This is free will. You will find mentioned in many Vedic scriptures that maha-mantra is especially recommended for understanding God in this age of Kali Yuga, such as Agni Purana, Kali-Santaram Upanisad, Brhan Naradiya Puranam, and many others. 

Haridasa Thakura chanted 3 lakhs of names each day, that means 16 names in the mantra, 108 x16 or 1,728 names in each round of mala, dividing 300,000 by 1,728 comes to roundabout 175 rounds on beads daily. And for us it is even difficult to chant 16 rounds! That is why Haridasa Thakura is "namacarya." We find in Caitanya Caritamrta information that both Lord Caitanya and Haridasa Thakura were constantly absorbed in chanting the Hare Krsna mantra: 

Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare." (Letter to Yajnesvara - Bombay 2 Jan, 1972)***















1 comment:

  1. Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will.

    Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

    Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly".

    Srila Prabhupada -"Yes", but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will. (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)

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