Finally, taṭastha-sakti is now correctly understood as being a name describing the "fallen conditional state" of the jiva-souls in the material world, and those dormant in the impersonal brahmajyoti.
The word tatastha-sakti describes the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in their conditioned state, "active" in the material world, or "inactive" in the impersonal Brahmajyoti.
The jiva-souls are NOT known as tatastha-sakti in the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana.
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) do NOT originate from the "conditional state" (tatastha-sakti), from either the material creation or the impersonal Brahmajyoti (Brahman)
Srila Prabhupada - "So this material world is the taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics, and the spiritual world is the "personal" characteristics. So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics and to enter the permanent characteristics (Vaikuntha). That is called spiritual elevation". (Lecture CC Madhya-lila 20.354-358 - New York City, Dec 28, 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "Because the individual jiva-soul is apt to fall down sometimes under the clutches of māyā, it is called taṭastha-śakti. Just like in the seaside the shore, the beach, sometimes you see it is covered by water and sometimes it is land. Similarly, when we are covered by māyā, that is our jīva-bhūta stage, and when there is no more covering, that is brahma-bhūta stage. When we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we are brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), and when we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we are materially conscious, that is māyā."(Lecture on BG 7.4-5 - Bombay, March 30, 1971)
It is said by some sangas (religious groups) like the Gaudiya Math that the jiva-souls are generated (originate) from a clear state of consciousness, from a place they call tatastha-sakti, which is nonsense. Their understanding is incorrect, the jiva-souls did NOT originate from tatastha-sakti or the impersonal brahmajyoti or from anywhere else.
The jiva-souls are eternal and were NEVER created as Bhagavad Gita chapter 2 text 12 and text 20 reveals.
Bhagavad Gita - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is chapter 2 text 12 also confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created because they have no origin and have existed for infinity like Krsna has, as Krsna explains-
Bhagavad Gita - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG 2.12)
The jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa have always existed and both were never created.
Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)
This should be explained clearly so this is PROPERLY understood as follows.
The marginal plane is a terminology that means a "collective of eternal jiva-souls" who can be influenced by both spiritual and material energy.
By nature the jiva-souls are part and parcel of the internal energy (spiritual energy) because they are spiritual beings.
However, marginal also means the jiva-souls can be covered (influenced) by the external (material) energy. Therefore they are called marginal.
Marginal means "in-between" the influence of the internal energy (spiritual) and external energy (material).
This means the jiva-souls are sometimes in the spiritual world, or sometimes covered in the material world.
Covered because they are eternally a spiritual person as an eternal bodily form however, in a material world the jiva-soul's spiritual bodily form becomes covered by matter, by a material bodily vessel that really has nothing to do with their eternal spiritual form.
The marginal living entities or jiva-souls, are therefore "in-between the influence" of the internal potency (spiritual energy) and external potency (material energy)
The jiva-souls are known as Krsna's marginal living entities or potency who are eternally part and parcel of a universal collective of jiva-souls who can choose to be in the Vaikuntha planets, Goloka-Vrindavana or in the material world.
The meaning of "marginal" energy.
The individual jiva-souls are collectively known as Krsna's “marginal energy.”
This marginal energy or potency is NOT some place in the Spiritual Sky where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm, who ARE the jiva-souls, have NO origin.
The individual jiva-souls are everywhere in both the spiritual and material worlds and always have existed without having any origin nor will they ever cease to be.
The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence of either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.
Marginal means in-between.
In actual fact, the jiva-souls are in-between the spiritual energy (realm) and the material energy (realm), this is why they are called marginal (in-between).
So, clearly the marginal potency is NOT a place where jiva-souls come from, the marginal potency ARE the individual jiva-souls who were never created and have no origin, nor will they ever cease to be as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains.
Many have misunderstood these facts about what "marginal" really means, the marginal potency is NOT some place in outer space the jiva-souls are generated from or originate from as fools believe.
Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some "so called place" in the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky, including tatastha-sakti and the impersonal brahmajyoti that foolish sangas (religious cults) and their nonsense guru's foolishly claim.
As said above, being "marginal" means in-between and includes having free will, or having the choice to choose "this side or that side," which means being influenced by the spiritual energy (the jiva-souls nature position and full potential) or influenced by the material energy (unnatural conditioned state)
The real meaning of "being marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.
There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals.” (Lecture on BG 9.4 - Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)
As said above, Bhagavad Gita As It Is chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity,” this means, just like Krsna, they are beginning less and endless, and were NEVER created.
There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy or those jiva-souls who can choose to be in the spiritual world or choose to be in the material world.
The jiva-souls do NOT originate from the so called marginal plane because they ARE collectively the marginal plane.
The marginal plane is NOT a place where jiva-souls originate from because the jiva-souls have no origin.
The "jiva-souls," who naturally belong in the spiritual energy (Goloka-Vrindavana and on the Vaikuntha planets) as individual spiritual PERSONS with Krsna, are called "marginal living entities" because they are influenced by either the spiritual energy or the material energy explained here by Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom.” (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul). Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG, As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Of course in the material creation there is almost no free will while trapped in the species of material life, there is only the instinct of-
eating,
sleeping,
mating,
defending.
The human species are also directed by karmic reactions (the reactions to their pious and impious actions) because in the human material bodily form the living entities are responsible for their actions good or bad.
Real freedom or free will only fully exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Understanding free will and one's eternal individual right to make their own choices and contributions in the spiritual world, is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls)
The marginal plane means the jiva-souls are influence by either the spiritual or the material energy as said above.
However, because the marginal plane is made up of "living" individual jiva-souls, their natural constitutional eternal position is being part of the spiritual (internal) energy.
The material energy is technically dead matter called Krsna's external potency.
Krsna's marginal potency is living energy exhibited as a collective of individual jiva-souls that can be covered by the dead material energy (an unnatural condition for the marginal living entities) or can be fully free in their natural environment living in the internal energy in the spiritual worlds.
The spiritual energy is living energy that includes many categories of Krsna's internal potency, everything in the spiritual worlds are alive unlike the material mundane worlds.
There are many personalities in the spiritual worlds of Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vṛndāvana, a great deal of them are Kṛṣṇa’s direct expansions known as Visnu-tattva and Visnu-sakti-tattva souls.
Both having 93.75% of Krsna's qualities which means they have in full 60 of Krsna's 64 attributes.
The jiva-souls are the marginal potency because they can fall down to the material world or remain in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.
The jiva-souls have 78.125% of Krsna's 100% qualities meaning they have 50 of Krsna's 64 qualities.
This means each individual jiva-soul (marginal living entity) can possess 50 of Krsna's 64 attributes.
Srila Prabhupada - "The spiritual world is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's internal energy, and this material world is Kṛṣṇa's expansion of external energy, and we living entities, we are (eternally) expansion of marginal energy. So three energies. Krsna has got multi-energies. All the multi-energies grouped in three headings-
1 - Antaraṅga-śakti means internal energy,
2 - bahiraṅga śakti means external energy,
3 - taṭastha-śakti means these living entities (jiva-souls)
We are śakti; we are energy. (jiva-tattva or jiva-soul) We are not the energetic (Visnu-tattva). The Māyāvādī philosopher says that because the energies are not outside Brahman, therefore they're all the same.
This is monism.
Our Vaiṣṇava philosophy is that energy (is) simultaneously one and different. When you perceive heat, we understand, "Oh, there is fire." But that does not mean that because I am getting some heat, I am on the fire.
Try to understand this philosophy.
Therefore here it is said vijānataḥ - "one who knows." So their ekatvam, Māyāvāda philosophy's ekatvam, oneness, and our ekatvam of oneness—a little different. They say that the energy's false; the Brahman is real. Brahmā satyaṁ jagan mithyā. We say that because Brahman is truth, therefore His energy's also truth. That is the difference between Vaiṣṇava philosophy and Māyāvāda philosophy.
We cannot say that energy is false. Energy is temporary; this external energy is temporary, not false.
Although, suppose we have got some trouble. There are so many kinds of troubles pertaining to the body, mind, external affairs. But that trouble comes and goes. But when the trouble is there, it is true. We feel the consequence. We cannot say it is false. The Māyāvādī philosophers say that it is false. But when he's troubled, why he's so much disturbed? So that is not false. Therefore this very word is used: vijānataḥ, "one who knows."
Perfect knowledge must be there, vijānataḥ. When one is actual knower of the things, tatra ko mohaḥ, then there is no illusion.
Illusion is for him who does not know things. But one who knows, there is no illusion. Tatra ko mohaḥ kaḥ śoka. No lamentation. When you are perfectly in conviction that there is nothing except Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's energy, the same, then there is no moha—moha means illusion—and śoka." (Lecture on Sri Isopanishad Los Angeles, May 10, 1970)
The marginal living entities, marginal potency or jiva-souls are eternal and are therefore ALWAYS found throughout the entire Spiritual Sky (both spiritual and material worlds) in four different realms.
Srila Prabhupada - "So this material world is the taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics, and the spiritual world is the "personal" characteristics. So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics and to enter the permanent characteristics (Vaikuntha). That is called spiritual elevation." (Lecture CC Madhya-lila 20.354-358 - New York City, Dec 28, 1966)
The term tatastha-sakti is not used to describe jiva-souls in the spiritual world because tatastha-sakti is describing jiva-souls in their conditioned state in the material world and in the inactive (dormant) impersonal Brahmajyoti.
This is the proper understanding of tatastha-sakti, describing the "conditioned state" of the jiva-souls.**^^.
HERE HERE HERE
1 - From associating with Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavana as a friend and four other different ways.
These five are -
Neutrality,
Servitude,
Friendship,
Parental affection,
And conjugal love.
2 - Serving Visnu as the Supreme God on the Vaikuntha Planets that surround Goloka Vrindavana, the abode of Krsna.
3 - Being embodied (covered) in a temporary material bodily vessel in the material creation.
4 - And attempting to cease one's existence in the dormant inactive impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Therefore attempting to inactively enter the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman to Vaiṣṇavas, is considered Spiritual suicide.
However, such merging is also only temporary even though the jiva-soul can stay there dormant (inactive) for a very, very, very long time.
However, they eventually full out of the impersonal Brahmajyoti because the nature of the jiva soul is to be always active and have a life.
In fact, the jiva-soul can stay in the impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman for so long that when they again awaken from their impersonal inactive slumber, they wrongly believe the impersonal Brahmajyoti is their origin.
They forget they fell to that dormant condition in the first place a long, long, long ago that can equal quadrillions of life times of Lord Brahma who lives for 311 trillion 40 billion human years.
Therefore "jiva-souls" (marginal living entities) did NOT originate from some impersonal inactive place or plane some call "a clear sheet of consciousness"
This is because originally all jiva-souls were with Krsna in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana but at sometime a few (less than 10% at one time) chose to enter to the material creation.
Then again after becoming frustrated with material life, fell further to the impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman in an attempt to end their existence.
The marginal plane is also called tatastha-sakti but ONLY used to describe those jiva-souls in the material creation and impersonal Brahmajyoti as Prabhupada explains.
in the material creation and impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Tatastha-sakti therefore is NOT a permanent place in the Cosmos or impersonal Brahmajyoti, it is another name for the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) who are in that conditioned state throughout the material worlds and impersonal Brahmajyoti as Prabhupada explains above.
So it is important to understand the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in the spiritual worlds are NOT genuinely called tatastha-sakti even though they are ALWAYS the "marginal living entities".
Remember tatastha-sakti is a name among many names that describe the marginal living entities.
Being the marginal potency means being inbetween the Spiritual energy and the material energy, this means the jiva-souls can be in their natural home in the permanent Spiritual energy (the Vaikuntha Planets or Goloka-Vrindavana) or enter the temporary material worlds and impersonal Brahmajyoti.
In all cases the jiva-souls ALWAYS remains the marginal living entities whether.
So the word tatastha-sakti in this description of the jiva-souls, means as marginal living entities, they can go to the Spiritual Worlds or choose go to the material worlds.
Tatastha-sakti means having that choice of the Spiritual Worlds or the material worlds.
Entering the material worlds also can later on, after being frustrated for many, many births trying to enjoy the material energy, extend to merging dormantly into the impersonal Brahmajyoti
Srila Prabhupada has explained above the jiva-souls are NOT described as tatastha-sakti in the active Spiritual Worlds of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
How the jiva-souls originate from the marginal plane needs a clearer deeper understanding, it just means their marginal constitutional position and NOT that they have literal origin because there is NO origin to the jiva-souls
This also means the jiva-souls do NOT originate from tatastha-sakti either.
This is because the "marginal living entities" ARE a collective of eternal jiva-souls without any beginning point who are spread throughout the entire Spiritual Sky (both Spiritual Worlds and material worlds)
Therefore in the impersonal Brahmajyoti and material creation, the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are known there as tatastha-sakti but NOT in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
In other words tatastha-sakti can also be called a conditioned fallen designation describing the jiva-souls in the impersonal Brahmajyoti and material creation but NOT those jiva-souls (marginal living entities) in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
This is important to try and understand as the marginal living entity has many different names describing their position and condition and tatastha-sakti is one of those names describing its conditioned state.
The jiva-souls (marginal potency) were NOT created from a "clear sheet of consciousness" either because they have ALWAYS existed everywhere (sarva-gatah means life is everywhere)
Bhagavad Gita Chapter 2 Text 20 confirms this-
Bhagavad Gita - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
The jiva-souls may fall to an "inactive" or dormant state in the impersonal Brahmajyoti, but they certainly did NOT originate from there.
Even entering the impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman is also only temporary relief for the jiva-souls as explained above, who entered there to escape the suffering and pain of being embodied in the material world in the cycle of repeated birth and death.
In fact the fallen jiva-soul can stay in the impersonal Brahmajyoti for a very, very, very long time, so long a time that some foolishly believe it is where they originated from after emerging from there as also explained above.
It should be made clear the dormant inactive aspect of the Brahmajyoti is NOT the origin of the jiva-soul, it is actually a fallen state.
The fact is, the individual jiva-souls do not originate" from anywhere including the impersonal Brahmajyoti because they have ALWAYS existed as part and parcel of the "marginal plane collective" of Krsna's energies that are individual souls spread throughout the entire Spiritual Sky (material and spiritual worlds).
The jiva-souls or marginal living entities (as individual persons) are throughout the Spiritual Sky that includes Vaikuntha, Goloka Vrindavana, the material creation and the dorment (impersonal) Brahmajyoti.
The marginal living entities are a unlimited number of individual PERSONS (jiva-souls) who in their full potential are as follows-
sat,
chit,
ananda,
vigraha.
This means in English the individual jiva-souls are-
eternity,
Knowledge,
bliss,
Bodily form.
This ORIGINAL eternal form of the jiva-soul is a bodily form like Krsnas Prabhupada has said, two arms, two legs etc like Krsna has in Vṛndāvana.
All of Krsna's marginal so called 'sparks' and so called 'atoms (souls) in the effulgence that impersonalists claim are bodiless and dormant, are in that conditioned state because they are fallen and have forgotten their original two armed spiritual bodily form in Goloka Vrindavana.
Only in the conditioned fallen state does the marginal living entity (jiva souls) merge into the impersonal Brahmajyoti.
As said above, the marginal living entities or jiva-souls are not called tatastha-sakti in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana as Prabhupada has explained above.
Revatīnandana - "Srila Prabhupāda you very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and I go to the brahmajyoti I'm still fallen".
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes".
Revatīnandana - "That means all jīva-souls there are also fallen souls?".
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes". (Room Conversation August 17, 1971, London)
Srila Prabhupada - ''Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness.
Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition". (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - ''When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness'' (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
In the jiva-souls original state, they have the same bodily features like Krsna, sat-cit-ananda-vigraha.
The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities is a two arm form like Krsna's Form.
Devotee – “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs”.
Hari-sauri – “How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?”
Srila Prabhupada – “[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket.
So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul”.
Hari-sauri - “They are covered in the spiritual world?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary.
Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body.
That is spiritual life. There is no restriction.
If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact". (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975)
The English word "generated" can be misleading if not properly understood because that word can mean a beginning point, or an origin point however, the jiva-souls have no origin or beginning point.
This is because they have always existed therefore the jiva-souls were NEVER created as Bhagavad Gita teaches us. (BG 2.12)
"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain".
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in their full potential are always a Spiritual bodily PERSON vigraha (form) first, but some time later, due to choice or fall down from the Vaikuntha, they eventually became a dormant (inactive) spark in the Brahmajyoti, or an almost dead motionless position in the material atom as Prabhupada.
This condition of the jiva-soul was entered into after many, many lives of frustration in the cycle of repeated birth and death in the material creation, explained to Tamal Krsna Maharaj.
God (Visnu) and the individual jiva-soul are always together even within the "atom"
Srila Prabhupada - "Just try to understand. From the sastra, you understand that andantara-stham: “God lives within the atom and when the God is there, the living entity is also there. This much you try to understand. Because God and living entity always remain together, as two friends. God is trying to save this fallen friend. That is the information from Upanisad. So when God is there in the atom, the living entity is also there". (Morning Walk, April 4, 1975, Mayapur)
Tamala Krsna - "Srila Prabhupada, someone asked a question the other day about the atom which I couldn’t give the answer to. His question is that if we say that within the atom the living entity, the jiva, is present, and life symptoms means six symptoms of birth, growth"
Srila Prabhupada - "That’s all right. Their life symptoms has not yet come. But there is".
Jayadvaita - "Potential".
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes".
Tamala Krsna - "His question was, it was sort of a dual question. At what time, or what…? Just like at the time of disintegration of this body, the living entity leaves this body and the body disintegrates, so does the atomic body also disintegrate when the living entity leaves it and moves to a higher body?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Atomic body? Atomic body means material body. Unless you are free from this material body, the atomic body will go on with you. That means unless you are mukta, the atomic body will go on. Mind, intelligence, ego — they are also atomic, finer atomic body (subtle body)".
Tamala Krsna - "But within each atom the living entity is present?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. God is present; therefore living entity is present".
Tamala Krsna - "So the living entity is present within the atom just as I am present within this body. When I leave this body, my body breaks apart".
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, you leave this body, enter another body".
Tamala Krsna - "Right".
Srila Prabhupada - "By nature’s law".
Tamala Krsna - "And when I leave this body, the body breaks apart".
Srila Prabhupada - "Eh?"
Tamala Krsna - "When I leave this body, the body dis…"
Srila Prabhupada - "The body is already atomic combination".
Tamala Krsna - "Yes".
Srila Prabhupada - "So it remains atomic combination. You leave the body".
Tamala Krsna - "Yes. It remains…"
Srila Prabhupada - "You leave the house. That does not mean the house is finished".
Tamala Krsna - "Right, I can understand that".
Hamsaduta - "He’s asking that if the soul leaves the atomic particle, then does the particle break apart. Isn’t it?"
Srila Prabhupada - "No, no. You have not left atomic particle".
Tamala Krsna - "No, but you, you’re… I think you were saying that within the atom there’s also a living entity. So when that living entity leaves the atomic particle does the particle break apart? Or doesn’t it? I mean what…?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Just try to understand. From the sastra, you understand that andantara-stham: “God lives within the atom.”
Tamala Krsna - "Yes".
Srila Prabhupada - "And when the God is there, living entity’s also there. This… This much you try to understand. Because God and living entity, they remain together, as two friends. God is trying to save this fallen friend. That is the information from Upanisad. So when God is there, the living entity is also there".
Rupanuga - "So Paramatma and jiva-soul are always together?".
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes".
Pancadravida - "The jivas inside the atom, are they like impersonalists who are in the Brahman?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That you consider. He has not developed his consciousness. Practically, it is like dead". (Morning Walk April 4 1975, Mayapur)
Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new soul. New and old are due to this material body, but the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?''. (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)
The use of this word "generated" really means the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are part and parcel in the category called the marginal energy or potency.
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are a collective of an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls who are eternal, meaning they have ALWAYS existed but, as said above, only called tatastha-sakti while conditioned in the material creation and impersonal Brahmajyoti.
As said above, the jiva-souls were NEVER created or created from any origin (starting point) because there is NO origin of the jiva souls, they have ALWAYS existed without beginning or end.
So the proper understanding is the marginal living entities, energy or potency (jiva-souls) are known in the material conditioned state as "tatastha-sakti" but NOT referred to by that name in their original Spiritual bodily form (vigraha) in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.
The jiva-souls are always known as the marginal living entities in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana too, but as their perpetual Svarupa bodies of their choice, and not known there as tatastha-sakti (even though they are always marginal living entities and tatastha-sakti) which is a term more used outside the Spiritual Worlds.
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana are genuinely NOT called tatastha-sakti (even though they are always marginal living entities in both the Spiritual and material worlds) because that term tatastha-sakti describes the conditioned souls only as Prabhupada explains here-
Srila Prabhupada - "Because the individual soul is apt to fall down sometimes under the clutches of māyā, it is called taṭastha-śakti.
When we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we are brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), and when we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we are materially conscious, that is māyā".(Lecture on BG 7.4-5 -- Bombay, March 30, 1971)
Prabhupada explaining the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) and tatastha-sakti.
Srila Prabhupada - "The Lord remembers all, but His associates, although liberated souls, forget due to their being taṭasthā-śakti, or marginal potency of the Lord.
That is the difference between the viṣṇu-tattva and jīva-tattva souls. The jīva-tattvas are infinitesimal potential particles of the Lord, and therefore they require the protection of the Lord at all times.
And to the eternal servitors of the Lord, the Lord is pleased to give all protection at all times. The liberated souls never, therefore, think themselves as free as the Lord or as powerful as the Lord, but they always seek the protection of the Lord in all circumstances, both in the material world and in the spiritual world.
This dependence of the liberated soul is constitutional, for the liberated souls are like sparks of a fire that are able to exhibit the glow of fire along with the fire and not independently.
Independently the glow of the sparks is extinguished, although the quality of fire or the glowing is there.
Thus those who give up the protection of the Lord and become so-called lords themselves, out of spiritual ignorance, come back again to this material world, even after prolonged tapasya of the severest type. That is the verdict of all Vedic literature". (SB 1.14.32-33, Purport)
Srila Prabhupada - "So this material world is the taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics, and the spiritual world is the "personal" characteristics.
So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics and to enter the permanent characteristics (Vaikuntha).
That is called spiritual elevation". (Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.354-358 — New York, December 28, 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "Twenty-five percent of Krsna's personal radiation (effulgence) comprehends the entire expansion of the material universes.
This is also explained and stated in the Bhagavad-gītā (10.42). Thus the seventy-five percent expansion of His radiation is called His internal energy, whereas the twenty-five percent expansion is called the external energy of the Lord.
The living entities, who are residents of the spiritual as well as the material expansions, are His marginal energy and they are at liberty to live in either of the energies, external or internal.
Those who live within the spiritual expansion of the Lord are called liberated souls, whereas the residents of the external expansion are called the conditioned souls". (SB 2.6.17, Purport)
Srila Prabhupada - "According to Viṣṇu Purāṇa, Bhagavad-gītā and all other Vedic literatures, the living entities are generated from the taṭasthā energy of the Lord, and thus they are always the energy of the Lord and are not the energetic.
The living entities are like the sun's rays. Although, as explained above, there is no qualitative difference between the sun and its rays, the sun's rays are sometimes overpowered by another energy of the sun, namely by clouds or by snowfall.
Similarly, although the living entities are qualitatively one with the superior energy of the Lord, they have the tendency to be overpowered by the inferior, material energy.
In the Vedic hymns it is said that the living entities are like the sparks of a fire. The sparks of fire also are fire, but the burning potency of the sparks is different from that of the original fire.
When the sparks fly out of touch with the original fire, they come under the influence of a nonfiery atmosphere; thus they maintain the potency to be again one with the fire as sparks, but not as the original fire.
The sparks can everlastingly remain within the original fire as its parts and parcels, but the moment the sparks become separated from the original fire, their misfortunes and miseries begin.
The clear conclusion is that the Supreme Lord, who is the original fire, is never overpowered, but the infinitesimal sparks of the fire can become overpowered by the illusory effect of māyā". (SB 3.7.9, Purport)
Srila Prabhupada - "Paramātmā, the Supersoul, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and He is eternally liberated.
In other words, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is living within this body along with the individual soul, and this is confirmed in the Vedas.
They are likened to two friends sitting on the same tree. Yet Paramātmā is above the illusory energy.
The illusory energy is called bahiraṅgā śakti, or external energy, and the living entity is called taṭasthā-śakti, or marginal potency.
As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, the material energy, represented as earth, water, air, fire, sky, etc., and the spiritual energy, the living entity, are both energies of the Supreme Lord.
Even though the energies and the energetic are identical, the living entity, individual soul, being prone to be influenced by the external energy, considers the Supreme Personality of Godhead to be one with himself". (SB 4, 22 38, Purport)
Srila Prabhupada - "The Supreme Personality of Godhead has three primary energies, or potencies.
The first is called antaraṅga-śakti, or the internal potency.
The second is called taṭastha-śakti, or the marginal potency.
The third is called bahiraṅga-śakti, or the external potency.
The living entities constitute the marginal potency, and they are situated between the internal and external Potencies.
Being subordinate as eternal servants of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the jīvātmās (jiva-souls), or atomic living entities, must remain under the control of either the internal or external potency.
When they are under the control of the internal potency, they display their natural, constitutional activity—namely, constant engagement in the devotional service of the Lord". (Nectar of Instruction 2, Purport)
Srila Prabhupada - "The Vaikuṇṭha planets are a product of the spiritual energy of the Lord.
The living entities belong to this spiritual energy, but because they can reside in either the spiritual world or the material world, even though they are originally spiritual they are designated as taṭastha-śakti, or marginal potency (a name for the marginal living entity while covered in the external (material) energy)
The Vaikuṇṭha planets are a manifestation of the Lord's internal potency, while the material world is a manifestation of His external potency.
Since the Supreme Lord is the master of all energies, it is an irrefutable fact that He is in full control of both the spiritual and material worlds. (Renunciation Through Wisdom 2.8)
Srila Prabhupada - "Krsna has three main energies
1 - external energy
2 - internal energy,
3 - marginal energy.
The external energy is this material expansion, manifestation.
Similarly, there is internal energy, the spiritual world manifestation, and in between them there is another energy called marginal energy, taṭastha, that we are, we living entities. We are His marginal energy.
Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between.
So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him.
But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent.
The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and we are also permanent, jīva-bhūta. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20)." (Lecture on BG 9.4 -- Melbourne, April 23, 1976)
Prabhupada also explains the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) do not originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or Maha-Visnu within His material creation.
The Sanskrit word "sarva-gatah" means life (individual jiva-souls) are EVERYWHERE however there are many different categories of sakti.
The "marginal plane or potency" is NOT a place where souls are created from, or originate from because they have no origin as clearly explained above.
The jiva-souls (marginal living entities) existence in the impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman is a fallen inactive dormant condition or state of consciousness the jiva-souls fall too.
The marginal living entities or jiva souls did NOT originate from that fallen condition, long, long ago in the impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman.
Long before that, they fell down from being with Visnu or Krsna in the active Spiritual Worlds of Vaikuntha Planets or Goloka-Vrindavana.
As Prabhupada explains above, in Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha, the marginal living entities are are NOT called tatastha-sakti because tatastha-sakti is a "conditioned description of the marginal living entities", that describes their existence ONLY in the material creation and impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana are the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) original homes where they can use their free will to choose their relationship with Krsna or even reject Krsna if they want.
Srila Prabhupada - “The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary.
Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction.
If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact". (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975)
The "marginal plane" IS a collective of an unlimited number of perpetual individual "jiva-souls" who are all around us throughout the Spiritual Sky (sarva-gatah means lifeiseverywhere) and have ALWAYS existed without beginning or end as Bhagavad Gita As It Is teaches.
"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain". (BG 2.12)
Therefore no jiva-souls were ever created from some point of origin in the Cosmos or impersonal Brahmajyoti called tatastha-sakti as many wrongly believe.
They may fall to that condition but certainly do NOT originate from there.
Tatastha-sakti is a term describing the a "conditioned state of marginal living entities (jiva-souls)" in the material creation and impersonal Brahmajyoti, and is not a word that describes the marginal living entities in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
As said above, some other sangas or religious groups claim the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) originate from an "impersonal" clear sheet of consciousness from the impersonal Brahmajyoti, that they believe is the origin of the marginal living entities or jiva-souls.
However, the impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman is NOT the origin of the marginal living entities that some WRONGLY claim to be tatastha-sakti.
In fact as said below, tatastha-sakti is a name for the the FALLEN condition state of the marginal living entity (jiva-soul).
Srila Prabhupada - "So this material world is the taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics, and the spiritual world is the "personal" characteristics.
So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics and to enter the permanent characteristics (Vaikuntha). That is called spiritual elevation". (Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.354-358 — New York, December 28, 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "Because the individual soul is apt to fall down sometimes under the clutches of māyā, it is called taṭastha-śakti. When we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we are brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), and when we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we are materially conscious, that is māyā". (Lecture on BG 7.4-5 -- Bombay, March 30, 1971)
The marginal living entities fall to that conditioned state in the impersonal Brahmajyoti some also call tatastha-sakti.
The individual jiva-souls ARE marginal in two different categories.
1 - As the marginal living entity in the condition state known as tatastha sakti ONLY in the material creation and impersonal Brahmajyoti.
2 - As the marginal living entity as their Svarupa Spiritual bodily form in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan (where the marginal living entities are not know as tatastha-sakti)
The jiva-souls are ALWAYS the marginal plane or potency, be it in the material creation, impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Spiritual Worlds of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
The marginal living entities have different names describing their position.
Tatastha-sakti is one of the names for the marginal living entities (marginal energy) which simply means the jiva-souls have the ability to choose this side being with Krsna (internal energy) or that side being in the material creation (external energy), no-one comes from there because it is not a place, it is just a name for the condition the jiva-soul is in.
There are 160 names for the jiva-soul like jiva-tattva, baddha-jiva, siddha-jiva, nitya-jiva-siddha, brahma-bhūta, tatastha-jiva, jiva-sakti, jiva-bhutah etc that each name describes the marginal living entity in a particular situation in the material creation, impersonal Brahmajyoti and Spiritual Worlds.
The fact is, on the Spiritual platform there is no creation of more individual jiva-souls (marginal living entities) because they were NEVER created, they have ALWAYS existed just like Krsna has.
In other words, just like the Sun-disc maintains the sun-rays because the sun-rays CANNOT exist without the Sun-disc, similarly Krsna has no meaning without His devotees like the Sun-disc has no meaning without the sun-rays.
The jiva souls were NEVER created, explained above in Chapter 2 Text 20 Bhagavad Gita As It Is.
The jiva-souls are unique individual PERSONS who are independent parts and parcel of Krsna, yet dependent on Krsna like the sun-rays are dependent on the Sun-disc.
So it is clear the jiva-souls are eternal without beginning or end and were NEVER generated (created) from some origin point like the impersonal Brahmajyoti called tatastha-sakti as some other sangas (religious cults) wrongly believe.
Each of Krsna’s devotees interacts with Krsna by their "free will" and CHOOSES one of five primary relationships.
All jiva-souls are EQUALLY intimate with Krsna because in the Spiritual World all relationships with Krsna are equally blissful, just like one may like a carnation flower while others choose to like a rose flower.
Srila Prabhupada - “The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary.
Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body.
That is spiritual life. There is no restriction.
If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975)
So this material world is the taṭastha characteristics, and the spiritual world is the personal characteristics.
So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha characteristics (material creation) and go to the permanent characteristics (Spiritual Worlds). That is called spiritual elevation.
We should not remain in the taṭastha state (conditioned), but should go to the permanent state of Krsna consciousness in the Spiritual Worlds of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Srila Prabhupada – ''Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down?
The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970.)
Srila Prabhupada – Regarding your several questions: Where are the spirit souls coming from that are taking microbe bodies? It is not a matter of any particular body.
These jiva-souls and all jiva-souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities.
There is no new soul. New and old are due to this material body, but the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be new soul?''
(Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the jiva-souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities.
Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence." (Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "The relationship with Krsna is never lost, it is simply forgotten by the influence of maya, so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position.
The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new.'' (Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva-soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world.
There are instances where marginal energy jiva-souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva-soul is called as Krsna’s marginal energy." - (Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position."(Bhagavad Gita as it is, Introduction.)
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) are nitya-siddha which means eternally liberated” (Srimad Bhagavaam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977)
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". (Germany, June 22, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada – “In the Padma Purana, wherein it is said that there are two kinds of spiritual entities; one is called the jiva-tattva, and the other is called the Visnu-tattva”. (87th Chapter of Krsna Book, Prayers by the Personified Vedas.)
The following is what Prabhupada means when he says less than 10% fall down Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
Dr. John Mize – “Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?
Srila Prabhupada – “No, there are… Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down”.
Dr. John Mize – “So we’re among the 10%.
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. Or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are… Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down”.
Dr. John Mize – “Does Krsna know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient”.
Dr. John Mize – “Are more souls falling all the time?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence… Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal.
So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also?
One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing…" Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency."
Dr. John Mize – "The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka) is…?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes."
Dr. John Mize – "From where does that tendency come?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence.
If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force.
Therefore Krsna says,yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like." (Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsna Loka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krsna he is liberated." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)
Acyutananda - ''So what made the soul take birth in the first place?''
Srila Prabhupada - ''In the first place?''
Acyutananda - ''What is the first birth? What is the cause of the first birth."
Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes, that is stated in the Prema-vivarta:
krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare nikata stha maya tare japatiya dhare
We are eternal servant of Krsna. As soon as we want to become master, that is the beginning of our first birth in the material world. We have got independence. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva bhutah—we are part and parcel of Krsna—so Krsna has got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we have got minute independence.
Our business is to serve Krsna, but as soon as we give up this idea, we want to become master. That is the beginning of our material birth." (Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.2--Hyderabad, April 11, 1975)
HERE HERE
Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the jiva-souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence."(Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970)
Acyutananda - ''But in the Gita, it says, "Once coming to Vaikuntha, he never again returns to the material world."
Srila Prabhupada - ''But if he likes, he can return''.
Acyutananda - ''He can return?''
Srila Prabhupada - ''That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Morning Walk--February 19, 1976, Mayapura)
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