Friday, November 4, 2022

Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” (BG Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The jiva-souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense, everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna, he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "The "immediate" expansions of the Lord are called svāṁśa or personal direct expansions (Visnu-tattva who are Krsna playing another role in His own pastimes) The "separated" expansions of the Lord are called vibhinnāṁśa - (jiva-tattva) or independent jiva-souls like us." (From BG 10.37, Purport)

The majority of jiva-souls (over 90%) never fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana; only less than 10% choose to enter the material creation Prabhupada explains here.

Dr. John Mize – "Did all the jiva-souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once, or at different times, or are there any jiva-souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"

Srila Prabhupada – "No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, the whole material world, all the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population are outside the prison house. Similarly, the majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world, only a few fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a jiva-soul is going to be foolish and fall?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient."

Dr. John Mize – "Are more jiva-souls falling all the time?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence and free will but everyone is not liking to misuse their independence. The same example is just like a government constructs a prison house because the government knows that some will be criminals. 

So, their shelter must also be constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent per cent population will be criminal, but the government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise, why do they construct prison house also? 

One may say, "Where are the criminals? You are constructing a prison?" But Government knows there will be criminals. 

So, if the ordinary government can know, why God can not also know? Because there is always tendency because one always has a choice.

This tendency means independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot fall down, that is not independence, that is force. Therefore, Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (BG lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. For example, when a man is dreaming, he forgets himself. In a dream he creates himself in different forms—"Now I am the king." This creation of himself is as two things – 1) as the seer, and 2) as the subject matter, or seen. 

As soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears, but the seer remains; now he is in his original, awake position.

Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. 

Even when we are with Krsna the desire for sense gratification is there. There is a tendency to forget Krsna and create an atmosphere for enjoying independently from Krsna.

At the edge of the beach, sometimes water covers the sand, and sometimes there is dry sand; the ocean is coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. 

As soon as we forget Krsna, immediately illusion is there; just as when we sleep, a dream is there. 

We cannot say, therefore, that we are not with Krsna, as soon as we try to become Krsna immediately we're covered by maya. 

Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila, or sport, but this covering of maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going. 

Due to this very long period of time  it is sometimes said that we are forever conditioned, but this long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually goes to back to Krsna.

In a dream we think a very long time is passing, but as soon as we awaken from the dream we look at our watch and see it has been only a moment. 

Another example is how Krsna’s friends were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they awoke and Krsna returned, they considered that only a moment had passed.

This "dreaming" condition is called non-liberated life, it is just like a dream. 

Although by material calculation it is a long, long, long long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness this period is considered less than a moment.

Jaya and Vijaya, the gate keepers at a gateway to Vaikuntha, the spiritual world, once refused entrance to four great sages, the Kumaras. The sages then cursed Jaya and Vijaya to fall to the material world. 

Lord Visnu gave the gatekeepers of Vaikuntha a choice, to play out their curse in the material creation for 7 life times as devotees, or 3 life times demons.

The sages agreed to this by saying that after three births as demons, Jaya and Vijaya would be again reinstated to their former post in Vaikuntha.

Thus Jaya and Vijaya eventually attained sayujya-mukti, merging into the body of the Lord for a short time, and then returning back home, back to Godhead in Vaikuntha, the spiritual world.

This is discussed in Srimad-Bhagavatam, Canto Three, chapters fifteen and sixteen, and Canto Seven, chapter one.

Jaya and Vijaya had their lila with Krsna, but they had to come down [to the material world] for their little mistake. They were given mukti, merging into the Brahma-sayujya [Lord Krsna’s impersonal effulgence], after being killed three times as demons.

This Brahma-sayujya mukti is nonpermanent. Every living entity wants pleasure, but Brahma-sayujya is lacking in pleasure; it consists only of eternal existence. 

So when those who get Brahma-sayujya mukti do not find transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss, for example, by founding schools and hospitals.

Even Lord Brahma wants to lord it over the material world. He may come down to become a germ, but then he may rise up to Krsna consciousness and go back home, back to Godhead. This is the position.

So when I say yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence of Jaya-Vijaya. Unless one develops full devotional service to Krsna, he goes up only to Brahma-sayujya but eventually falls down. 

But after millions and millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krsna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, just like a dreaming moment.

Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal Brahmajyoti), he thinks that this may be his origin, but he does not remember that even before that, he was with Krsna. 

So the conclusion is that whatever may be our past, let us come to Krsna consciousness and immediately join Krsna. 

It is a waste of time for a diseased man to try to find out how he has become diseased; better to spend time curing the disease." ('Crow-And-Tal-Fruit Logic' letter to Madhudvisa Swami, July 1972 Melb, Australia)

Srila Prabhupada - "The "immediate" expansions of the Lord are called svāṁśa or personal direct expansions (Known as Visnu-tattva, or the Lord playing a different role in His own pastimes) 

The "separated" expansions of the Krsna are called vibhinnāṁśa - (jiva-souls endowed with independence and free will) like us." (From BG 10.37, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) are nitya-siddha devotees which means eternally liberated." (SB Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, Feb 18, 1977)

Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body." (Germany, June 22, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada – "In the Padma Purana, wherein it is said that there are two kinds of spiritual entities; one is called the jiva, and the other is called the Supreme Lord." (87th Ch of Krsna Book, Prayers by the Personified Vedas)











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