Srimad Bhagavatam - "The brāhmaṇa continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world." (SB, Canto 4 Ch 28 text 53)
The individual jiva-soul's fall down to this temporary material world is from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana which is their original position, and do not originate from the inactive impersonal brahmajyoti as many fools believe.
Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal brahman (brahmajyoti) is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness." (Letter to Revatinandana dasa, Los Angeles, 13 June, 1970 and 1971 London)
An in depth explanation worth reading.
The following Conversation took place in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples.
Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that, “don’t fall down!”
Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…”
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire.
Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?”
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krishna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?” Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy”. End
Question - Is there a place in the Spiritual World from where we can never fall down from?
Answer - It is not based on a "place you can never fall down from" that will keep you in Vaikuntha, it does not work that way because it is based on ‘’your choice’’ and nothing else. If you were forced to stay there then how can there be love?
Remaining in Vaikuntha "eternally" is based on the conscious awareness of what the devotee wants as a unique selfless individual "loving" personal servant of the Lord.
Even in such selfless emotions of loving devotion, the jivatma NEVER looses that unique ability of free will and self expression where one is "personally" always aware they are choosing how to selflessly serve Krishna or the servants of the servants of Krishna.
The fact that one does not fall from Gods personal Kingdom is your responsibility, not Gods, it is your choice, it is your free will to choose and nobody else including Krishna.
The fact is 90% of all living entities do not fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana because they "choose not to".
That "choice" is always with the marginal living entities or jiva.
How is this so?
The jivatma soul or marginal living entity has 78% of Krishna's quantities which puts them in the realm of having "a sense of independence, identity, personality, individuality and the ability to choose.
This means the jivatma has the ability to agree or not agree even with Krishna.
The sense of individuality allows the jivatma the right to choose Krishna or choose to be separate from Krishna.
Remember Maya and the material energy does not exist in Vaikuntha so that is unknown to the jivatma.
However, "free will, individuality, having independence, experiencing a unique sense of individual self worth and the ability to express all these qualities DOES exist in the make up of the jivatma in Vaikuntha.
And if all those abilities are taken away, then we loose the ability to give and accept love, we become no better than a stone or mindless robot.
Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence”. Conversation in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples.
No one can force you to stay in Vaikuntha, that choice must "always" be the jivatmas (our choice).
For love to truly exist with the jiva-tattva (jivatma) we MUST have the the right to choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at anytime.
And the fact is a small minority do choose to leave, regardless of how some have interpreted past Sages and Acharyas.
The fact is to say those who enter Vaikuntha will "never ever again fall down" IS true - ‘’for those who choose NOT to fall down".
In other words, if the jiva wants to leave they certainly can.
To make a blanket comment that "not even the leaves fall and leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana" seems to not take into consideration the free will of the jiva tattva.
These comments from past Sages and Acharyas may have been said for many reasons to give faith among aspiring devotees and neophytes to encourage them to understand that their constitutional position IS to NEVER ‘’choose’’ to leave Vaikuntha and NEVER ‘’desire’’ to enter the material world once they have returned to Vaikuntha.
However to come to the material world is ultimately the jiva tattva's choice and Krishna does not interfer even though Krishna has promised there is no return to the material creation. The fact is there is if the jiva tattva wants to return, this is Prabhupada's point.
Acyutananda – “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns. He can return?”
Srila Prabhupada – “If he likes he can return”.
Guru-kripa – “How is it that one can become envious of Krishna?”
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krishna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
For those who believe past Acharyas and sages meant that no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha is meant to address all souls in Vaikuntha, have not understood the variety of living entities in Vaikuntha.
They have NOT understood there are many different inhabitants of Vrindavana (like those who never fall down by choice such as the Sakti Vishnu tattvas who are expansions of Krishna, they never fall down because they ARE simultaneously eternal associates and Krishna experiencing Himself in unlimited ways.
So for them, choice does not exist.. And for over 90% of jiva tattva souls who do have the ability to choose, they also never fall down because they "choose" not to.
Devotee - “Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back”.
Srila Prabhupada - “No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, “Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man,” I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become. . . .” End of quote
However, there will always be a very small minority of only the jiva tattvas (not the Sakti tattva or Vishnu tattva "direct expansions"of Krishna) who miss use their ability to "choose" and leave if they desire.
Free will is eternal even in Goloka and in fact without our ‘sovereignty as a living being’ to either forget or remember Krishna, then we would not have any individuality, no independent personality and no ability to love we would be mindless ''yes'' drones like machines in a factory
Srila Prabhupada - “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
Srila Prabhupada – “You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krishna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”. (Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976) End of quote
Krishna has many different energies. Jiva is one, Matter is one, the consorts of the Lord are one.
Technically we are all Sakti tattva however there are different categories, we are the jiva tattva known as the the ''marginal energy'' while others are Sakti tattvas and part of the internal potency or energy.
The Sakti-Visnu-tattva (Radharani and Her expansions) and Visnu-tattva (direct expansions of Krsna) Personalities are ''the eternal inhabitants of Vrindavana who can never fall down or choose to forget Krsna because they are direct expansions of Krsna Himself and part of His internal energies or potency of unlimited expansions and associates.
For example the Pancha-tattva explained below are a combination of Sakti tattva and Visnu tattva Personalities with only one being Visnu tattva.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, and Śrīvāsādi. Śrīvāsādi means jīva-tattva. The jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, viṣṇu-tattva, these are all tattvas. So Pañca-tattva. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is the supreme tattva, Kṛṣṇa. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. We are worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa combined''.Lecture on CC Adi-lila 7.5 -- Mayapur, March 7, 1974 End of quote
Sakti tattva is not exactly Visnu Tattva even though Sakti tattva is also called Sakti-Visnu-tattva. The correct understanding is that all of Krsna’s energies are under the broad category of Sakti-tattva.
Srila Prabhupada - "There are viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva and śakti-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva is the Supreme Absolute Truth, jīva-tattva is part and parcel (individual jiva-souĺs), and śakti-tattva is the energy of God." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 5 text 15, New Vrindaban, June 19, 1969)
Sakti tattva the energy of Krsna are eternally occupied with their service to the Lord, such expansions have only the desire to please Krsna or His Visnu expansion, they can never be covered by Maya and their concept of free will and independence is only to please Krsna or Visnu as they are indirect expansion of Godhead.
The Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana are made up of many Sakti-visnu-tattvas such as gopis, gopas and many many others, and Visnu-tattvas. There is also jiva-tattvas or individual jiva-souls (part and parcels) playing many rolls in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrndavana as well, just like the Sakti-Visnu-tattvas are.
As already explained, Sakti Visnu tattvas can never fall down and the jiva tattvas can NEVER become Sakti tattva in the sense of loosing their independence as jiva tattva, even though technically all living entities are Sakti tattva or expansions of Krsna like the sun rays are expansions of the Sun.
Srila Prabhupada - ''The words bṛhate namas te have been explained by Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura: bṛhate śrī-kṛṣṇāya.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. There are many tattvas, such as viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva and śakti-tattva, but above everything is the viṣṇu-tattva, which is all-pervading.
This all-pervading feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is explained in Bhagavad-gītā (10.42), wherein the Lord says:
athavā bahunaitena
kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna
viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam
ekāṁśena sthito jagat
"But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."
Thus Kṛṣṇa says that the entire material world is maintained by His partial representation as Paramātmā. The Lord enters every universe as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu and then expands Himself as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu to enter the hearts of all living entities and even enter the atoms.
Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Every universe is full of atoms, and the Lord is not only within the universe but also within the atoms. Thus within every atom the Supreme Lord exists in His Viṣṇu feature as Paramātmā, but all the viṣṇu-tattvas emanate from Kṛṣṇa.
As confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (10.2), aham ādir hi devānām: Kṛṣṇa is the ādi, or beginning, of the devas of this material world—Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara. Therefore He is described here as bhagavate bṛhate.End of quote
So there are differences between different energies or expansions of the Lord.
We are also expansions.
We are also expansions, the individual jiva-tattvas have minute independence and "a sense of individual self that is able to think and act for themselves serving Krsna separately from Krsna, who are also called the individual marginal living entities or jiva-souĺs,
The jivatma or individual jiva-souls, are different from the direct expansion of Kṛṣṇa like the Sakti-Visnu-tattvas (who are Radharani gopis and cowherd boys etc) and the direct Visnu-tattvas expansions of Kṛṣṇa.
The Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana have so many so many expansions of Krsna it is mind boggling.
Although the individual jiva-souls can play the roll of a gopa or gopi but can never be Sakti Visnu tattva or Visnu-tattva, who are both Krsna expanded as multiple personalities.
The individual jiva-souls like us on the other hand, can choose to forget Krsna at anytime and enter the mahat-tattva (the material creation belonging to Maha-Visnu) as nitya-baddha (becoming materially conditioned) and think they are a god.
Our eternal constitution position and eternal bodily is already there in Vaikuntha waiting for us to wake up from this material dream.
In Vaikuntha there is no concept of past and future time only our ''individual'' "awareness" of the "eternal presence of Krishna and our own dependent unique personality exists eternally there.
This is how we know the universe is not ''all'' one consciousness playing different roles (except for Krishna and His unlimited expansions))
Therefore we never loose our independence and sense of individual identity being a "person", even a blade of grass, leaf or chair is a Peron in Goloka. Of course in the material world our individuality becomes covered by many different species of material bodies but underneath it all the jivatma or jiva tattva is there as an individual.
It is important to understand we have a "sense of independence and individuality as jiva tattva" this is what "marginal" means.
To say you can never leave Goloka once there is true for most but not all because we can choose to miss use your free will.
Without having that choice Prabhupada says we are no better than a stone, we would not be able to give love or receive love.
And yes, many devotees have found this subject’s true meaning in Sastra very difficult to understand and therefore call it inconceivable rather than attempting to understand it or believe others understand it.
Understand what?
That making "choices" (that allows one to increase their “unique” individual expression of love for Krishna) is always with the marginal living entity even in Vaikuntha and to take that ability away from the marginal living entity in Vaikuntha, the jivatma looses the individual ability to “give and accept love”.
This is because without free will we loose our sense of independence as a person and having a unique separate identity from all of other individual jivatmas, Vishnu tattvas, and Krishna Himself.
These are important points to understand.
We, the jivatma souls are independent thinking souls eternally but simultaneously part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna the cause of all causes meant to please the Lord as the unique “persons”.
Therefore, no one can force the jivatma to stay in Vaikuntha, that choice must be eternally yours (the jivatma).
Only Visnu-tattvas and Visnu-sakti-tattvas never fall down from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana because they are direct expansions of Krsna playing different rolls in Krsna's pastimes and both have 93.75% of Krsna’s qualities which means they have 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities, making them direct expansions of Krsna Himself.
Some Visnu sakti tattvas are gopis including Radharani, gopas, parents, lovers etc many, many different personalities.
Krishna’s brother Balarama is Visnu tattva and many others are too playing different parts in Krsna Lila just like in Lord Caitanya’s pastimes where many are Vishnu tattva playing a roll also.
It is only these resident's of Vrindavana who never fall down into forgetfulness.
And the fact is, more than 90% of jivatma’s also “choose” to stay in Vaikuntha and never enter the material world seeking selfish desires.
All jiva tattvas have only 78% of Krishna’s qualities can leave if they choose.
To be on the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana does not always guarantee you will stay there forever and never enter the temporary decaying material world.
Although as already explained 90% never choose to forget Krsna because that is their desire and expression of free will.
Some past sages, Acharyas and scholars claim the individual jiva-souls can never fall down to the material world once they are in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Yes, that is true because the individual jiva-souls are not suppose to leave their real home by falling down from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
The fact is, most (over 90%) never do fall down or leave the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana however, Srila Prabhupada has further explained that some individual jiva-souls do choose to leave or fall from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana by rejecting Krsna's promises found in Bhagavad Gita As It Is where He says those in the spiritual world never fall down to the temporary material world again.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains this where Krsna promises the individual jiva-souls they would never enter to the temporary material world once they are in the spiritual world, this is Kṛṣṇa's promise.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend." (BG, Ch 18 text 65)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "That supreme abode is called unmanifested and infallible, and it is the supreme destination. When one goes there, he never comes back. That is My supreme abode." (BG, Ch 8 text 21)
However, because a loving relationship is a "two-way street between Kṛṣṇa and the individualjiva-souls, the jiva-souls can also choose to accept or reject the above words from Krsna. A two-way street means one can do wrong and right otherwise free-will and voluntary exchanges has no meaning.
In other words, if the individual jiva-souls choose to go to the material world, or again return to the material world after going back to the spiritual world, Krsna will not interfere with that rejoice regardless of Krsna's promise they will never again fall to the temporary material world.
The individual jiva-souls always have a choice to stay in the spiritual world, or leave. So that conclusion is not only Krsna's decision because all relationships are based on a two-way voluntary exchange between two, not just one! There is always a choice.
The individual jiva-souls also have their choice too, they can choose to accept or reject Krsna's promise, and sadly less than 10% in the spiritual world do not accept Kṛṣṇa’s promise and again enter the material world.
Srila Prabhupada explains it is only a very small minority who foolishly make that choice below, less than 10%.
Dr. John Mize – “Did all the individual jiva-souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?”
Srila Prabhupada – “No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down”. Los Angeles, June 23, 1975.
Lets clear one thing up, falling into the material world has absolutely nothing to do with maya or the material energy because maya does not and can not exist in Vaikuntha.
The jivatma’s do not even know Maya or the material energy exists, however, they do have "free will and the ability to choose" and are aware that this quality is “eternally” part and parcel of the jivatma’s makeup and exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
We do not loose our independence and sense of individual identity once we enter Vaikuntha, we are eternally independent living entities but depend of Krishna Personally or His many Vishnu expansions who provide all facilities in the material creation.
In other words we are always independent living entities but always depend on Krishna just like the Sun rays cannot exist without the Sun.
The fact is because we can "choose to be with Krishna or reject Him", then there can be increasing endeavors of loving exchange due to “choice”.
This is one of the reasons why the material universe was created - to give "reality" to that choice of rejecting and forgetting Krishna, so the living entity can go to another place outside Vaikuntha if they choose, to try and enjoy without being conscious of Krishna’s existence (that place where one can forget Krishna is called the material creation)
The marginal living entity or jivatma also must have the free will to choose Krishna instead of just being in Vaikuntha without no choice. The point made here is the position of the jivatma in Vaikuntha must be voluntary.
Who you love and who you choose to serve MUST be voluntary.
Many cannot understand these facts about the importance of free will, individuality, identity and the sense of self worth of being a unique person who can give selfless ever increasing love or service in their own way to Krishna.
These qualities are based on the importance of the individuals ability to have "choices" within their experiences as a individual person.
Once again to be truly free there must be the choice of Vaikuntha or its so called opposite where Krishna can be forgotten, the "material creation"
Without the individual jiva-souls having the choice to accept or reject Krsna, there can never be genuine voluntary love, Prabhupada has explained saying forcing one to love you is called rape.
Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could be come the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking."
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?
Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”
Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.
It takes only free will to live separately from Krishna and this choice has nothing to do with maya or material energy as explained above - it is simple free will that allows us to be a independent person and enter the material creation too.
To do that one is given material bodies, a subtle and gross body that covers the spiritual form.
In the material world, the jivatma has to put up with the gross material body always being in a state of decay and then eventually being forced to take another gross material body.
Also once in the material creation, you're on you're own terms, you are responsible therefore karma begins as soon as you leave Vaikuntha.
No individual jiva-soul originates from the dormant (inactive) impersonal brahmajyoti, they can often fall to there but they have not come from there as Srila Prabhupada tells us.
Srila Prabhupada - 'The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down." (Letter to Revatinandana dasa, Los Angeles, 13 June, 1970 and 1971 London)
Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” (Lecture BG, Aug 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970(
Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual jiva-souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (The Hare Krsna Happening record album New York, Dec 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Srila Prabhupada - "The actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated as Krsna’s servant), because God is eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal. So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sadhana-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them. It is a difficult task" (New York City lecture CC, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Mahā-Viṣṇu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”. SB 4.29.83 Purport.
Once, an Indian political leader, Syamasundara Chakravarti, asked Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada.
“Why has the Lord granted such freedom to the jiva?”
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta told him, “”You are fighting for freedom. Don’t you know the value of freedom? Devoid of freedom, the soul is only matter.”
Freedom offers us the alternative to do right or wrong. Once, Gandhi told the British authorities, ”We want freedom.”‘ They replied, “You are not fit to have self-government. When you are fit, we shall give it to you.”
But finally, he told them, “We want the freedom to do wrong.” So, freedom does not guarantee only acting in the right way; freedom has its value independent of right and wrong.
Free will is only absolute with the Absolute Truth. Because we are finite our free will is infinitesimal. The possibility of committing a mistake is there. Our first choice was to dominate and so, gradually we have entered the world of domination.
As a result of this first action, everything else has developed.
So, in different ranks the species have been divided from the demigods down to the trees and stones. And watery bodies, gaseous bodies, anything that we find here has evolved in that way.
The activating principle in any form of embryological development is the soul, and from the soul, everything has evolved.” End of quote
Srila Prabhupada makes our "original position" with Krishna very clear.
And yes, maya cannot be blamed for our fall down from Vaikuntha in any way because she, in her role as the personification of material energy, does not exist in Vaikuntha, nothing material can exist there.
But free will does and always will exist in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
Therefore "we" are responsible for our choices and actions.
Srila Prabhupada on the other hand chose to come here to serve Krsna's plan and attract the fallen individual jiva-souls in the material world and take them back home back to Godhead.
Many pure devotees like Srila Prabhupada also come here to preach Krsna Consciousness.
There are three ways to come here, as a devotee who preaches, as a devotee who plays the part as a great demon like Jai and Vijai the gate keepers of Vaikuntha.
And those who "choose" to just forget and give up Krishna's association and do their own thing.
Also one can never have material desires in Vaikuntha because Maya does NOT exist there.
Maya cannot be blamed for tempting us and causing our fall down from Vaikuntha in any way because she, in her role as the personification of material energy, does NOT exist in Vaikuntha.
Nothing material can exist there.
But ''free will'', ''independence'' and ''individuality'' does and always will exist in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana. We therefore leave because of free will and the ability to choose to accept or reject Krsna.
As an individual ''person'' endowed with independent thought and identity, we are able to make such chooses.
What does the majority of people think being a "PERSON" really means after you surrender to Krsna?
Do they think it is becoming some "yes man or women" of Krsna in His Kingdom where one becomes a mindless none thinking denier of the "individual self" who has unique qualities that makes you an individual?
Do they think surrender means we give up our individuality? Sadly, so many have no idea what real "personalism" is which is a word tied to individuality.
The idea of "don't think just do what your told" is impersonalist nonsense because it denies ''you'' to use your own abilities and talents to contribute something unique to your personality that no one else may have.
So no, "you" DO NOT give up your independent individuality and sense of self worth and esteem to be fully surrendered and "dependant" on Krsna, maintaining that individuality is part of surrendering.
In fact in Goloka your individual independence and dependence on Krsna go together side by side increasing simultaneously at the same time and is always expanding in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana.
It takes spiritual intelligence to understand what real surrender is, and that includes understanding ‘’you’’ are eternally an independent individual person with your own sense of "individual self" separate from all other individual jiva souls.
Although Krsna always accompanies all the individual jiva-souls as a friend and witness to the jivatmas individual choices and actions because we are eternally parts and parcels of the Lord.
Please read the above essay again, it explains we are all "unique individual persons" who are endowed with independent qualities allowing one to eternally give "THEIR OWN" best to Krishna.
The individual jiva-souls are not part of an "all one programmed none thinking impersonal collective" within God's Kingdom, no, that is a description of what hell is like.
Impersonalism means believing that in Vaikuntha we give up our independence and individuality and become part of an "all one collective consciousness"
Living an impersonal existence is to be devoid of individual thought that does not allow personal contributions that makes ''you'', who you really are, as a person, as Krishna's eternal servant, as a unique living entity who can contribute the best of ''their'' individual abilities to Krishna.
On the other hand personalism means the individual jiva must be able to grow and flourish as an independent living being giving their own personal contributions of devotional service to Krsna.
To deny the individual jiva-souls their individuality and independent sense of identity that allows them to personally offer unique distinctive voluntary contributions and service to Krsna, only leaves an impersonal mindless hell to the real devotees of Krsna.
Many devotees in ISKCON and the Gaudiya Math have an impersonalist idea about what Vaikuntha is like and do not even know it.
Only when the living entity desires not to be with Krishna do they enter the material world and realize Maya's existences.
Paramahamsa - “But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return.
Srila Prabhupada - “There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is”.
Paramahamsa - “If we want”.
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.
Paramahamsa - “So we can come to the spiritual world and return?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.
Paramahamsa - “Fall down?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go.” Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness.
Therefore "we" are responsible for our choices and actions.
So the conclusion is found in Srimad Bhagavatam that explains the fall down of the individual jiva-souls from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, is found in the 4th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam where the Supreme Lord is disguised as a brahmana Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4.28.53-
The brāhmaṇa said - "My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world."
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