Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes, the material world and all our relationships in it are a dream”.
The following conversation is between His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and a university student that took place in Los Angeles, in January of 1974.
Student. – “In your books you say this world is like a dream”.
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes. It is a dream”.
Student – “How is it a dream?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “For example, last night you had some dream, but now it has no value. It is gone. And again, tonight when you sleep, you’ll forget all these things and dream. You won’t remember, when you are dreaming tonight, “I’ve got my house; I’ve got my wife.” You’ll forget it all. So all of this is a dream”.
Student. – “Is it true, or is it not true?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “How could it be true? At night you forgot it. Do you remember when you sleep that you’ve got your wife and you’re sleeping on a bed? When you have gone some three thousand miles away and seen something totally different in your dream, do you remember that you’ve got a place to reside in?”
Student – “No”.
Srila Prabhupada – “So this is a dream. Tonight. What you are seeing now will become only a dream, just as what you know it was only a dream. So both are dreams. You are simply a visitor, that’s all. You are seeing this dream and that dream. You, the spirit soul, are factual. But your material body and the material surroundings you are seeing –this is dream”.
Student. – “But I have the impression that this experience is true and my dream is not true. What is the difference?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “No. This experience is all untrue! How could it be true? If it were true, how could you forget it at night? How could you forget it, if it were true? At night do you remember all this?”
Student – “No. I don’t remember.”
Srila Prabhupada – “Then-how could it be true? Just as you don’t remember the dream you saw last night and so you call it a “dream,” similarly this experience-because you forget it at night-this is also a dream….”
Student – “I have the impress”
Srila Prabhupada. – “This is a day dream; that is a night dream. That’s all. When you dream at night, then you perceive that as being real. Yes. You think that is real. It is a dream, but you are crying, “There is a tiger! Tiger! Tiger!” Where is the tiger? But you are seeing it as a fact-a tiger. “I’m being killed by a tiger.” But where is the tiger? …Or you dream you are embracing some beautiful girl. Where is that beautiful girl? But actually it is happening”.
Student – “It is happening”?
Srila Prabhupada – “In one sense it is happening, because there is discharge of semen. Nocturnal emission. But where is that girl? Is it not a dream? But similarly, this so-call real-life experience is also a dream.
You are getting the impression of factuality, but it is a dream. Therefore it is called maya-sukhaya, illusory happiness. Your nighttime happiness and your day time are the same thing. At night you are dreaming you are embracing a nice beautiful girl, and there is no such thing.
Similalrly, in the daytime also, whatever “advancement” you are making-this also like that. Maya-sukhaya: You are dreaming, “This process will make happy” or “That process is only a dream. You are taking this daydream as reality because the duration is long.
At night when you dream, the duration is just half an hour. But this daydream lasts for twelve-hour dream, and that is half-hour dream-but actually both of them are dreams. Because one is twelve-hour dream, you are accepting it as real. This is call illusion”.
Student – “Illusion”.
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes…. You are making a distinction between and animal and yourself, but you are forgetting that just as the animal will die, you will also die. So where is your advancement? Will you remain forever? You will also die. So where is your advancement over an animal?
That is stated in the Vedic literatures. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam-cal samanam etat pasubhir naranam this business –eating, sleeping, sex life, and defending-this is also the animal’s business, and you are doing the same.
So how are you distinct from an animal? You will die; the animal will die.
But if you say, “I will die after one hundred years, and this ant will die after one hour,” that does mean that you are in reality. It is a question of time, Or take this huge universe-it will all be destroyed.
As your body will be destroyed, this universe will also be destroyed. Annihilation. Dissolution. Nature’s way-the whole thing will be dissolved.
Therefore, it is a dream. It is a long duration of dream, that’s all. Nothing else. But the advantage of having this human body is that in this dream, you can realize the reality-God. That is the advantage. So if you don’t take advantage of this dream, then you are missing everything”.
Student. – “So I’m half-asleep?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes, that is the situation. Therefore, the Vedic literatures say, uttistha: “Get up! Get up! Get up!” Jagrata: Become awakened!” Prapya varan nibodhata: “Now you have got the opportunity: utilize it.” Tamasi ma jyotir gama:
“Don’t stay in darkness; come to the light.” These are Vedic injunctions. And we are teaching the same thing, “Reality is here-Krsna. Don’t remain in this dark place. Come to the higher consciousness”. Los Angeles, in January of 1974.
Srila Prabhupada - “As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position.
Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there. Actually he has not fallen”. http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul's dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma-Samhita describes – “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wan...ts to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”..29.83.http://vedabase.net/sb/4/29/83/en
Srila Prabhupada - “There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha” New York lecture on Caitanya-Caritamrta, July 13, 1976
Srila Prabhupada – “Eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha)? We cannot be eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha), because we are part and parcel of Krishna. Our natural position is ever liberated, eternally liberated (nitya-siddha). But because we wanted to imitate Krishna, we wanted to become Krishna, as the Mayavadis want to do, therefore in the spiritual world, Krishna is the only enjoyer. (Bhagavad Gita as it is lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Saturday, December 11, 2010
Thursday, December 9, 2010
To say we the marginal living entities came from 'a clear sheet of consciousness that is expanding and growing with new jivas, ' or from the impersonal dormant characteristic of the Brahmajyoti, is worse than the teachings of Mayavadi philosophy!
To say we the marginal living entities came from 'a clear sheet of consciousness that is expanding and growing with new jivas, ' or from the impersonal dormant characteristic of the Brahmajyoti, is worse than the teachings of Mayavadi philosophy!
The correct understanding of the origin of the jiva soul is from Vaikuntha and from the pastimes of Krishna.
This painting http://img812.imageshack.uarge2.jpg is not explained fully because where it says 'Brahmajyoti' it is a little misleading. This is because it should of been made clear that the entire universes of Krishna and His Vishnu-tattvas, jiva-tattvas, Goloka-Vrndavana, Vaikuntha’s and the mahat-tattva (material creation) and the impersonal Brahmajyoti are all collectively the Brahmajyoti or everything that is.
The correct understanding of the origin of the jiva soul is from Vaikuntha and from the pastimes of Krishna.
This painting http://img812.imageshack.u
The Vaikuntha's were never created so the word ‘creation’ cannot be used for Goloka-Vrndavana and the Vaikuntha realm, nor can it be used to explain the marginal living entities (jiva-tattvas) or Krishna and His unlimited Vishnu-tattva expansions.
The word creation can only apply to the mahat-tattva material 'creation' because it has a beginning and end.
The ‘impersonal Brahmajyoti’ or the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky is actually a very small minority of souls in their baddha-jiva inferior feature that becomes established in that 'impersonal' dormant state due to the influence of being covered and frustrated within the mahat-tattva that souls fall to and are covered (material vessels that belong to the mahat-tattva) by when they choose to no longer serve Krsna in Goloka or Vaikuntha.
In other words, when souls become fed up with the material creation of changing material bodies or vessels, they can escape this cycle of birth and death by either realizing their full potential nitya-siddha body that is always in Goloka even while they ‘imagine’ themselves to be in the mahat-tattva, or they can cease to desire bodily activity (after much difficulty of casting off those subtle and gross material bodies) and enter an inactive dormant state of consciousness that is within and part of each marginal living entities capacity of expression, in this case inactivity.
The individual baddha-jivas who enter this ‘consciousness’ are expressing the impersonal side of their nature and is known as their impersonal Brahmajyoti feature. In other words the impersonal Brahmajyoti is the dormant inactive characteristic of the ‘baddha’-jiva
So where this painting is misleading is the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, is NOT some place within the over all universes but is rather a state of inactive consciousness ‘desired’ by the baddha-jiva aspect of the marginal living entity. (That ultimately is also only a temporary condition because the inherent nature of all marginal living entities is ‘activity’
Keep in mind the baddha-jiva consciousness is the sub-conscious or rebellious state of the soul that ignores ones Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha body or the full expression and potential that is the make up of every of every marginal living entity
Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
Now some have said, ‘Sometimes "Vaikuntha" means the spiritual sky, NOT necessarily "Vaikuntha-LOKA." No that is not correct as the following proves -
Srila Prabhupada – "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport (Letter 1972 to devotee in Australia (To Madhudvisa Swami)
That choice is always there even in Goloka and must be there if genuine love is to exist. It is not that we first have to be contacted by the modes of material nature to fall down from Goloka or Vaikuntha.
Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature. We can misuse such independence with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.
Our Srila Prabhupada tells us we have ALL come directly from Vaikuntha and not from some impersonal 'clear sheet of consciousness' as others like the followers of Sridhar Maharaj incorrectly teach. All of us were originally with Krishna.
Every living entity comes from a personal relationship with Krsna in Vaikuntha or Goloka
Those who believe the jiva originates from some inactive state or from the Vraja River or the Body of Maha-Vishnu are actually propagating Impersonalism. The real facts are that all marginal living entities come from the pastimes of Krishna by their own foolish choice. This is the teaching of Srila Prabhupada.
Everyone should make a strong stand of the subject matter and stay with the teachings of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada who says – "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport (Letter 1972 to devotee in Australia (To Madhudvisa Swami)
You can't get the source as clear as that no matter what the impersonal ignorant impersonal origin believers come up with. They should forget about quoting Narayana Maharaj, Govinda Maharaj or Sridhar Maharaja’s because non of their ideas and speculation is accepted, their ideas are incomplete
Srila Prabhupada says that the living entity (nitya-siddha) never actually falls from the spiritual world however, the forgetful consciousness of the living entity (The projected nitya-baddha sub-consciousness) can ‘fall down’ and enter the mahat-tattva in a dream state that simultaneously leaves one's authentic nitya-siddha Krishna conscious body back in Goloka.
Paramahamsa - So we can come to the Spiritual World and return?
Srila Prabhupada - Yes.
Paramahamsa - Fall down?
Srila Prabhupada - Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krishna says, “yes, you go.” Just like nobody is interested in Krishna consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?
Srila Prabhupada - “Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krishna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, “All right, you enjoy like this.” Just like some of our students, Krishna conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prison house, not that government welcomes, “Come on. We have got prison house. Come here, come here.” He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that”.
Srila Prabhupada - “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.”(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)
Srila Prabhupada – “Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi–perfection of one’s constitutional position”. Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita as it is
Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes:
Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga
Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah
‘This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.
“Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.
We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu in his material creation. Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka
Srila Prabhupada tells us we ALL come down from Goloka.
Srila Prabhupada -”The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully”(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)
Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service”(Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrndavana)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand”. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - “Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, “I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krishna’s servant. Eternal servant. That’s all". Lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Srimad Bhagavatam 2.9.1
Srila Prabhupada - “You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned” Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 196
Srila Prabhupada - “Our contact with matter is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness, we break the dream. Similarly, we can break this So this situation” Srila Prabhupada lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Srimad Bhagavatam 2.9.1
Srila Prabhupada – “We have got an eternal relationship with Krishna, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving Krishna, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under–…That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)
Srila Prabhupada - “When the dream is finished, we come to another dream: “Oh, this is my house. This is my family. This is my bank balance.” This is going on. Dream. One dream at night, one dream at daytime. But who is dreaming? That is the living entity. So his business is different. Not dreaming, daytime dreaming and nighttimes dreaming. He has to come to the actual platform. That is Krsna consciousness. If he takes to Krsna consciousness, that is his actual life. Otherwise, he’s in the dreamland” Bombay, December 27, 1972
Srila Prabhupada - “Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things”. Letter to Madhudvisa Swami 1972
Srila Prabhupada - ‘Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967)
Srila Prabhupada - “We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krishna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with Krishna in His Lila or sport” Letter to Madhudvisa Swami May 1972
Srila Prabhupada - “Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only”
Srila Prabhupada - “The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul’s choice is nicely illustrated by Milton in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead”. Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 5.22
Srila Prabhupada clearly states “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972
Srila Prabhupada – “Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what your relationship with Krishna is automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)
Srila Prabhupada – “Similarly, we have got an eternal relationship with Krishna, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving Krishna, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under–…That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)
Srila Prabhupada – ‘So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what his relationship with Krishna is, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)
Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)
This clearly means our nitya-siddha svarupa body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM, THINK OR IMAGINE WE LEAVE.
In this way the mahat-tattva is the destination for where such dreams go. It is there they are provided with temporary bodily forms created by Maha-Vishnu who is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva or material creation aspect of the Spiritual Sky.
In this way the mahat-tattva is the destination for where such dreams go. It is there they are provided with temporary bodily forms created by Maha-Vishnu who is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva or material creation aspect of the Spiritual Sky.
In this way it is Srila Prabhupada explaining to us in very simple English that we all originate from Goloka.
Friday, December 3, 2010
We are all together ONE philosophy is actually very true from the material point of view ONLY
Rob Bryanton - "Every electron is identical.The only way it would be possible for an electron to be both 'here' and 'there' at the same time is if, as Einstein liked to say, the separation between past, present, and future is an illusion. If there is an underlying fabric where everything happens simultaneously, then that single electron could be like the threads in my shirt, weaving back and forth to create the fabric. But we only see reality in tiny slices out of that fabric
Slices: watch?v=nheaNclVe2Y and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrS_UnfmVYU
The 'I am you, you are me, and we are all together' philosophy is actually very true from the material point of view ONLY and IS how the material universe works; so we therefore have probably been a passenger in a material bodily vessel that someone is presently living in the 'NOW' that we walk past every day or see on the Bus or Train.
All this is happening simultaneously even though we experience each body separately. The only separation between the material body we are now in and the material bodily vessels around us is past, present and future that co-exist.
In other words those material bodies we see could of been the ones we were in the past or bodies we will possess in the future. Strangely enough those bodies we occupy in both past and future could also mean the present as well. As individual particles of Brahman we have nothing to do with the material manifestation
In one corner of the Brahmajyoti or Brahman is a dark cloud called the mahat-tattva or material sky, which is like a shadow of the pure Brahman and is therefore also called an illusion because of its tempora nature.
The living entities are not made up of atoms or 'possess' a bodily form, they have a bodily form AND ARE THEIR BODY which IS them and is one form without the divisions we see in the material body.
Each part of this 'spiritual body' has the same abilities as every other part which means not only can ones eyes see around them their whole sees everything around them because the Brahman body is one unit, no atoms, electrons, protons etc
I am not this material biological body or it's underlining ethereal subtle material body, both of these material realities are made up of atoms, protons, electrons etc however, I am pure Brahman and my individual spiritual body is me, it is NOT material that includes the subtle ethereal material body that many religions see as angles, no, the heavenly worlds in this material universe are material and not spiritual or not pure Brahman.
Within the pure Brahman, also known the Brahmajyoti, exists the Vaikuntha Planets and the Goloka-Vrndavana centre of the universe.
There was no beginning to these eternal abodes where all living entities come from because they exist within the 'eternal presence' of God or Krsna Conscious.
This means there is no decay, no death, no birth, no individual electrons etc as is in the material 'creation', there is absolutely no beginning or end therefore these worlds beyond the material temporary universe were never created like the material universes known as the mahat-tattva 'creation' was.
So the conclusion is that beyond the material beyond the 'sub-space' material universes that the scientists have yet to discover and beyond dark matter exists a universe not made of atoms but made of LIFE or Brahman and from life comes matter.
The scientists have yet to discover the spiritual world of pure Brahman where one maintains the 'awareness' of their individuality eternally within Vaikuntha where there is no past or future but only Krishna’s pastimes or lila. In fact Vaikuntha can never be achieved through material science, only bt becoming Krishna's dear devotee can one regain the awareness of their eternal body that is with Krishna in unlimited relationships
Slices: watch?v=nheaNclVe2Y and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrS_UnfmVYU
The 'I am you, you are me, and we are all together' philosophy is actually very true from the material point of view ONLY and IS how the material universe works; so we therefore have probably been a passenger in a material bodily vessel that someone is presently living in the 'NOW' that we walk past every day or see on the Bus or Train.
All this is happening simultaneously even though we experience each body separately. The only separation between the material body we are now in and the material bodily vessels around us is past, present and future that co-exist.
In other words those material bodies we see could of been the ones we were in the past or bodies we will possess in the future. Strangely enough those bodies we occupy in both past and future could also mean the present as well. As individual particles of Brahman we have nothing to do with the material manifestation
In one corner of the Brahmajyoti or Brahman is a dark cloud called the mahat-tattva or material sky, which is like a shadow of the pure Brahman and is therefore also called an illusion because of its tempora nature.
The living entities are not made up of atoms or 'possess' a bodily form, they have a bodily form AND ARE THEIR BODY which IS them and is one form without the divisions we see in the material body.
Each part of this 'spiritual body' has the same abilities as every other part which means not only can ones eyes see around them their whole sees everything around them because the Brahman body is one unit, no atoms, electrons, protons etc
I am not this material biological body or it's underlining ethereal subtle material body, both of these material realities are made up of atoms, protons, electrons etc however, I am pure Brahman and my individual spiritual body is me, it is NOT material that includes the subtle ethereal material body that many religions see as angles, no, the heavenly worlds in this material universe are material and not spiritual or not pure Brahman.
Within the pure Brahman, also known the Brahmajyoti, exists the Vaikuntha Planets and the Goloka-Vrndavana centre of the universe.
There was no beginning to these eternal abodes where all living entities come from because they exist within the 'eternal presence' of God or Krsna Conscious.
This means there is no decay, no death, no birth, no individual electrons etc as is in the material 'creation', there is absolutely no beginning or end therefore these worlds beyond the material temporary universe were never created like the material universes known as the mahat-tattva 'creation' was.
So the conclusion is that beyond the material beyond the 'sub-space' material universes that the scientists have yet to discover and beyond dark matter exists a universe not made of atoms but made of LIFE or Brahman and from life comes matter.
The scientists have yet to discover the spiritual world of pure Brahman where one maintains the 'awareness' of their individuality eternally within Vaikuntha where there is no past or future but only Krishna’s pastimes or lila. In fact Vaikuntha can never be achieved through material science, only bt becoming Krishna's dear devotee can one regain the awareness of their eternal body that is with Krishna in unlimited relationships
Rob Bryanton - "Every electron is identical.The only way it would be possible for an electron to be both 'here' and 'there' at the same time is if, as Einstein liked to say, the separation between past, present, and future is an illusion. If there is an underlying fabric where everything happens simultaneously, then that single electron could be like the threads in my shirt, weaving back and forth to create the fabric. But we only see reality in tiny slices out of that fabric
Slices: watch?v=nheaNclVe2Y and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrS_UnfmVYU
Slices: watch?v=nheaNclVe2Y and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrS_UnfmVYU
The 'I am you, you are me, and we are all together' philosophy is actually very true from the material point of view ONLY and IS how the material universe works; so we therefore have probably been a passenger in a material bodily vessel that someone is presently living in the 'NOW' that we walk past every day or see on the Bus or Train.
All this is happening simultaneously even though we experience each body separately. The only separation between the material body we are now in and the material bodily vessels around us is past, present and future that co-exist.
In other words those material bodies we see could of been the ones we were in the past or bodies we will possess in the future. Strangely enough those bodies we occupy in both past and future could also mean the present as well. As individual particles of Brahman we have nothing to do with the material manifestation,
In one corner of the Brahmajyoti or Brahman is a dark cloud called the mahat-tattva or material sky, which is like a shadow of the pure Brahman and is therefore also called an illusion because of its tempora nature.
The living entities are not made up of atoms or 'possess' a bodily form, they have a bodily form AND ARE THEIR BODY which IS them and is one form without the divisions we see in the material body.
Each part of this 'spiritual body' has the same abilities as every other part which means not only can ones eyes see around them their whole sees everything around them because the Brahman body is one unit, no atoms, electrons, protons etc
I am not this material biological body or it's underlining ethereal subtle material body, both of these material realities are made up of atoms, protons, electrons etc however, I am pure Brahman and my individual spiritual body is me, it is NOT material that includes the subtle ethereal material body that many religions see as angles, no, the heavenly worlds in this material universe are material and not spiritual or not pure Brahman.
Within the pure Brahman, also known the Brahmajyoti, exists the Vaikuntha Planets and the Goloka-Vrndavana centre of the universe.
There was no beginning to these eternal abodes where all living entities come from because they exist within the 'eternal presence' of God or Krsna Conscious.
This means there is no decay, no death, no birth, no individual electrons etc as is in the material 'creation', there is absolutely no beginning or end therefore these worlds beyond the material temporary universe were never created like the material universes known as the mahat-tattva 'creation' was.
So the conclusion is that beyond the material beyond the 'sub-space' material universes that the scientists have yet to discover and beyond dark matter exists a universe not made of atoms but made of LIFE or Brahman and from life comes matter.
The scientists have yet to discover the spiritual world of pure Brahman where one maintains the 'awareness' of their individuality eternally within Vaikuntha where there is no past or future but only Krishna’s pastimes or lila. In fact Vaikuntha can never be achieved through material science, only bt becoming Krishna's dear devotee can one regain the awareness of their eternal body that is with Krishna in unlimited relationships
Sunday, November 28, 2010
ORIGIN OF JIVA SOUL - If one does not want to be cheated when buying a diamond, you must have some knowledge of what a diamond is
To say we came from 'a clear sheet of consciousness' or the impersonal dormant Brahmajyoti is worse than Mayavadi philosophy!
Returning back to Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha does not change ones individual marginal position into internal energy (cit-s’akti) and become Vishnu-tattva. That is not possible.
The nitya-siddhas however are equal in quality to the internal potency of Krishna, but not quantity. Goloka is a spiritual place where nothing other than nitya-siddhas exist serving Krishna the Supreme Lord or His Vishnu expansions, the marginal living entities always keep their marginal independence and individuality eternally.
Marginal nitya-siddha devotees can choose to live separately within their sub-conscious nitya-baddha materially motivated dreams that are extended or projected as the nitya-baddha dreaming conscious extension; this is a secondary transformation of Krishna's marginal nitya-siddha personalities are projected into a non-devotee role within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.
The Impersonal Brahmajyoti is simple the transformation of the marginal individual’s sub-consciousness into its dormant or dreamless state, this is an important point to understand.
The nitya-siddha bodily eternal self is serving Krishna eternally and can never leave Goloka (except for Krishna Lila or pastime), yet from time to time, due to choice and the marginal quality of free will, one may enter into a dreaming sub-conscious lower self (nitya-baddha) that can only exist inside the material dreams of Maha-Vishnu within the maha-tattva or within the non-dreaming condition we call the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.
The Impersonal Brahmajyoti is simply a further transformation of marginal individual nitya-baddha consciousnesses acting in an inactive state achieved after going through the mahat-tattva, this fall down is a significant realization to comprehend.
Ones ‘awareness’ of their surroundings can be situated either in the external mahat-tattva as their non-Krishna conscious nitya-baddha consciousness, or remain in the internal Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha Kingdom of God serving as their full conscious potential nitya-siddha bodily self.
One can choose to always be ‘aware’ of their Krishna Conscious perpetual body or drift away sub-consciously to the mahat-tattva in non-Krishna conscious dreams.
In this way, the embodied living being is situated in proportionally higher or lower levels of material existence. The marginal living entity can freely choose to be situated in either externally as nitya-baddha or internally as nitya-siddha) serving the personification of the internal energy, Lord Krishna.
The living entities marginal consciousness, due to free will, can choose to be either confined to the external ethereal and biological containments in the mahat-tattva or can further choose the impersonal ‘dreamless’ Brahmajyoti stage of consciousness after ‘sub-consciously’ falling from the ‘awareness’ of their internal nitya-siddha bodily form in Goloka and then first existing for some time transmigrating from material body to body in the mahat-tattva material manifestation.
Those who believe they cannot fall ‘sub-consciously’ from Vaikuntha are deluding themselves and misleading their followers.
If one does not want to be cheated when buying a diamond, you must have some knowledge of what a diamond is, similarly one must have some understanding of Spiritual life to begin with and then develop a solid understanding of Srila Prabhupada’s books.
In this way one will not be mislead by material charisma, dictatorial power and conflicting Vaishnava theories and dreaded Impersonalism. One must study Srila Prabhupada’s’ books, tapes, letters and interviews diligently and openly challenge anyone who contradicts those books, referring mostly to Impersonalists, Buddhists, materialists and mundane religionists.
The teachings of the bonafide Spiritual Master are absolute so Prabhupada’s books, tapes (that all his books are via Dictaphone anyway) lectures, classes, morning walks, interviews and letters are all as equal as each other. Why wouldn’t they be so?
Returning back to Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha does not change ones individual marginal position into internal energy (cit-s’akti) and become Vishnu-tattva. That is not possible.
The nitya-siddhas however are equal in quality to the internal potency of Krishna, but not quantity. Goloka is a spiritual place where nothing other than nitya-siddhas exist serving Krishna the Supreme Lord or His Vishnu expansions, the marginal living entities always keep their marginal independence and individuality eternally.
Marginal nitya-siddha devotees can choose to live separately within their sub-conscious nitya-baddha materially motivated dreams that are extended or projected as the nitya-baddha dreaming conscious extension; this is a secondary transformation of Krishna's marginal nitya-siddha personalities are projected into a non-devotee role within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.
The Impersonal Brahmajyoti is simple the transformation of the marginal individual’s sub-consciousness into its dormant or dreamless state, this is an important point to understand.
The nitya-siddha bodily eternal self is serving Krishna eternally and can never leave Goloka (except for Krishna Lila or pastime), yet from time to time, due to choice and the marginal quality of free will, one may enter into a dreaming sub-conscious lower self (nitya-baddha) that can only exist inside the material dreams of Maha-Vishnu within the maha-tattva or within the non-dreaming condition we call the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.
The Impersonal Brahmajyoti is simply a further transformation of marginal individual nitya-baddha consciousnesses acting in an inactive state achieved after going through the mahat-tattva, this fall down is a significant realization to comprehend.
Ones ‘awareness’ of their surroundings can be situated either in the external mahat-tattva as their non-Krishna conscious nitya-baddha consciousness, or remain in the internal Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha Kingdom of God serving as their full conscious potential nitya-siddha bodily self.
One can choose to always be ‘aware’ of their Krishna Conscious perpetual body or drift away sub-consciously to the mahat-tattva in non-Krishna conscious dreams.
In this way, the embodied living being is situated in proportionally higher or lower levels of material existence. The marginal living entity can freely choose to be situated in either externally as nitya-baddha or internally as nitya-siddha) serving the personification of the internal energy, Lord Krishna.
The living entities marginal consciousness, due to free will, can choose to be either confined to the external ethereal and biological containments in the mahat-tattva or can further choose the impersonal ‘dreamless’ Brahmajyoti stage of consciousness after ‘sub-consciously’ falling from the ‘awareness’ of their internal nitya-siddha bodily form in Goloka and then first existing for some time transmigrating from material body to body in the mahat-tattva material manifestation.
Those who believe they cannot fall ‘sub-consciously’ from Vaikuntha are deluding themselves and misleading their followers.
If one does not want to be cheated when buying a diamond, you must have some knowledge of what a diamond is, similarly one must have some understanding of Spiritual life to begin with and then develop a solid understanding of Srila Prabhupada’s books.
In this way one will not be mislead by material charisma, dictatorial power and conflicting Vaishnava theories and dreaded Impersonalism. One must study Srila Prabhupada’s’ books, tapes, letters and interviews diligently and openly challenge anyone who contradicts those books, referring mostly to Impersonalists, Buddhists, materialists and mundane religionists.
The teachings of the bonafide Spiritual Master are absolute so Prabhupada’s books, tapes (that all his books are via Dictaphone anyway) lectures, classes, morning walks, interviews and letters are all as equal as each other. Why wouldn’t they be so?
Facebook | Origin of jiva soul
Facebook Origin of jiva soul
Actually there are some living entities who NEVER fall down from their position in Vaikuntha and Goloka
Actually there are some living entities who NEVER fall down from their position in Vaikuntha and Goloka
When we talk of fall down from Goloka, it will always be a sensitive subject because some will always believe once in the Goloka pastimes of Lord Krishna, one never falls down and the fact is, in most cases they don’t.
Actually there are some living entities who NEVER fall down from their position in Vaikuntha and Goloka or even if they enter the mahat-tattva because they are not marginal like us; these billions upon billions of Living Entities are not like us (jiva-tattva [tatastha-s’akti] or marginal living entities) they are all Vishnu Tattva. They are everywhere in Goloka and Vaikuntha, some as Gopis, Cow heard boys, Village elders or residents etc and some come disguised in various bodily forms to the material worlds.
The Caitanya Caritamrita explains this further, so many of Lord Caitanya’s associates are all Vishnu-tattva. There are Vishnu-tattvas who have manifested many of their unique personalities at the same time during Lord Caitanya’s lila on this planet but only our purity or the causeless mercy of Lord Caitanya and His humble selfless devotees can begin to understand and appreciate such transcendental mysterious.
Srila Prabhupada - “Brahmasayujya and Krsna lila–both may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya (impersonal Brahmajyoti) or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery. But at the present moment we are in Maya’s clutches, so at present our only hope is to become Krsna conscious and go back to Home, back to Godhead” Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Australia 1972.
What does Srila Prabhupada mean by his following comment? -“Brahmasayujya and Krsna lila both may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery”.
From other comments from Srila Prabhupada, we can understand that the above comment ONLY refers to where we have previously come from, was it from Krishna-lila or from the impersonal Brahmajyoti (Brahmasayujya)?
What is meant here is the Brahmasayujya dormant condition of the baddha-jiva consciousness was attained either in this mahat-tattva (material creation) or from a previous one after much austerity to become totally inactively and free from gross and subtle material bodies and therefore attaining a dreamless dream state as part of the collective impersonal Brahmajyoti.
This is what the impersonal Brahmajyoti is, a collective of individual baddha-jiva souls vibrating inactively who have the appearance of living bright effulgence light particles or rays. Also if one still has material desires at the dissolution of the material creation, then they are temporary placed within the Body of Maha-Vishnu in a dormant state until placed again into a new maha-tattva from the glance of Maha-Vishnu as described in the Srimad Bhagavatam
Because this condition of merging into the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Vishnu is temporary, the baddha-jiva will eventually AGAIN fall and begin their material embodied existence? This what Srila Prabhupada is referring to when he says, “Brahmasayujya may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery”.
Srila Prabhupada is NOT saying that we can ‘originate’ from the impersonal Brahmajyoti as some claim, he is not saying that at all, he is only referring to our present status which means that in some previous birth in the material creation, we may have fallen out of the impersonal Brahmajyoti dormant consciousness (Brahmasayujya), that was previously attained from the material creation after great difficult austerity to suppress material desires (usually the impersonalist yogis).
Or we may have never been to the impersonal Brahmajyoti because we had previously, some millions of year’s ago, come down directly from Goloka as nitya-baddha.
As far as our ‘origin’ is concerned, Srila Prabhupada has previously answered that very clearly. Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
Srila Prabhupada rejected the idea we ‘originated’ from the impersonal Brahmajyoti (Brahmasayujya) and even the Body of Maha-Vishnu who plants the fallen ‘baddha-jivas’ (the lower secondary state of the marginal living entity) into His mahat-tattva creation.
Srila Prabhupada – “Brahmasayujya (impersonal Brahmajyoti) is minus pleasure. There is eternal existence only. So when they do not find transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss”
Darkness cannot be left over in the presents of light because light dissipates all darkness. In other words while there is light (nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body), darkness (nitya-baddha condition) does not exist.
This means that when one’s ‘awareness’ is AGAIN situated as the eternal presents of their Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa body, the nitya-baddha sub-conscious darkness in the material creation no longer exists.
Srila Prabhupada - “As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself.
In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains.
Now he is in his original position. Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things.
http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
Several do not appreciate the accurate details of how we actually did come down from Goloka due to miss using our free will. We certainly did not come down as our nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body to chase our material desires.
The truth is we are perpetually in Krishna’s pastimes as nitya-siddha right now, within that eternal presence of selfless blissful devotion where nothing factual can perish however, because selfish desires are not a factual reality and not part of the make-up of Goloka or Vaikuntha, they are projected as a spin off reality to mahat-tattva (material creation) that is under the jurisdiction of Maha-Vishnu.
Such self-absorbed mundane self centred thoughts and coveted dreams convince us we are not there with Krishna (as we desired) even though we are ALWAYS with Krishna. In this way, such egocentric dreams and thoughts, like a veil, block out our connection to Krishna by moving us ‘sub-consciously’ to the separated mahat-tattva reality of Maha-Vishnu where we become bogged down in ignorance due to being covered by various subtle and gross material bodies.
We therefore experience this secondary nature (nitya-baddha) to our marginal nitya-siddha identity simply because we choose to do so that places us outside of Goloka and within the material creation.
Even though material realities (the mahat-tattva) are real, there temporary nature makes them an illusion in the face of the perpetual presence of Goloka. And it’s also got nothing to do with sleeping on a bed in Goloka and imaging we are in the material world as some foolishly and disdainfully believe. No, it’s not that type of dreaming at all. Their fabrication of the ‘sleeping on a bed in Goloka’ philosophy of how the jiva falls from Goloka is absolute nonsense!!
The understanding of the word ‘dream’ in regards to the marginal living entity falling from Goloka is significant in Srila Prabhupada’s preaching yet has nothing to do with ‘sleeping’ anywhere; it’s all to do with time. because we don’t really fall, we only think we do as Srila Prabhupada has taught us.
The proper understanding is this. It’s all to do with the ‘eternal presence’ of the imperishable Vaikuntha’s and Goloka compared to the ‘past, present and future’ of the perishable material creation of Maha-Vishnu. The marginal living entity, due to free will and choice, falls out of synch with the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka simply caused by their non-Krsna Consciousness
Lord Krishna states that the constitutional nature of all marginal living beings is that they are eternal servants of the Lord. So to say that ‘conditioned’ souls have never been ‘unconditioned’ in Goloka-Vrndavana is incorrect.
Srila Prabhupada – ““Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord. Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa.
By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position. We have an intimate relationship with the Lord, and because we are all qualitatively one the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gita is to revive our sanatana occupation, or sanatana dharma, which is the eternal occupation of the living entity.
The Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions of eternal association with the Lord.” Bhagavad-gita, Introduction.
As in our case in the material world, we are presently ‘eternally conditioned’ (nitya-baddha) because long, long, long, long ago we made that choice to forget Krishna and simultaneously the ‘awareness’ of our nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) body we serve Krishna as.
When again we achieve deliverance from this material world due to the mercy of pure devotees, we will enter Goloka AGAIN by the method of becoming ‘aware’ of our genuine nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body or in simple terms, we begin to make a distinction of who we really our that separates us from the material dream condition (nitya-baddha fallen consciousness).
Alan Ginsberg – “How did the material covering begin?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Begin?”
Alan Ginsberg – “As the material shadow. How did we fall into that?
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. Yes. That is very natural. . . Because jiva, although para-sakti, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Krishna”.
Alan Ginsberg – “… How did we fall into that?”
Srila Prabhupada – “In the spiritual world, Krishna is the enjoyer. And all others, they are enjoyed–predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, ‘The Lord is predominator; we have to serve.’ When this service attitude is impaired, that–‘Why serve Krishna? Why not ourself?’–that is Maya”. - Room conversation with Allen Ginsberg in Columbus, OH 5-14-69
Srila Prabhupada - “As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains.” http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
Actually there are some living entities who NEVER fall down from their position in Vaikuntha and Goloka or even if they enter the mahat-tattva because they are not marginal like us; these billions upon billions of Living Entities are not like us (jiva-tattva [tatastha-s’akti] or marginal living entities) they are all Vishnu Tattva. They are everywhere in Goloka and Vaikuntha, some as Gopis, Cow heard boys, Village elders or residents etc and some come disguised in various bodily forms to the material worlds.
The Caitanya Caritamrita explains this further, so many of Lord Caitanya’s associates are all Vishnu-tattva. There are Vishnu-tattvas who have manifested many of their unique personalities at the same time during Lord Caitanya’s lila on this planet but only our purity or the causeless mercy of Lord Caitanya and His humble selfless devotees can begin to understand and appreciate such transcendental mysterious.
Srila Prabhupada - “Brahmasayujya and Krsna lila–both may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya (impersonal Brahmajyoti) or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery. But at the present moment we are in Maya’s clutches, so at present our only hope is to become Krsna conscious and go back to Home, back to Godhead” Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Australia 1972.
What does Srila Prabhupada mean by his following comment? -“Brahmasayujya and Krsna lila both may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery”.
From other comments from Srila Prabhupada, we can understand that the above comment ONLY refers to where we have previously come from, was it from Krishna-lila or from the impersonal Brahmajyoti (Brahmasayujya)?
What is meant here is the Brahmasayujya dormant condition of the baddha-jiva consciousness was attained either in this mahat-tattva (material creation) or from a previous one after much austerity to become totally inactively and free from gross and subtle material bodies and therefore attaining a dreamless dream state as part of the collective impersonal Brahmajyoti.
This is what the impersonal Brahmajyoti is, a collective of individual baddha-jiva souls vibrating inactively who have the appearance of living bright effulgence light particles or rays. Also if one still has material desires at the dissolution of the material creation, then they are temporary placed within the Body of Maha-Vishnu in a dormant state until placed again into a new maha-tattva from the glance of Maha-Vishnu as described in the Srimad Bhagavatam
Because this condition of merging into the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Vishnu is temporary, the baddha-jiva will eventually AGAIN fall and begin their material embodied existence? This what Srila Prabhupada is referring to when he says, “Brahmasayujya may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery”.
Srila Prabhupada is NOT saying that we can ‘originate’ from the impersonal Brahmajyoti as some claim, he is not saying that at all, he is only referring to our present status which means that in some previous birth in the material creation, we may have fallen out of the impersonal Brahmajyoti dormant consciousness (Brahmasayujya), that was previously attained from the material creation after great difficult austerity to suppress material desires (usually the impersonalist yogis).
Or we may have never been to the impersonal Brahmajyoti because we had previously, some millions of year’s ago, come down directly from Goloka as nitya-baddha.
As far as our ‘origin’ is concerned, Srila Prabhupada has previously answered that very clearly. Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
Srila Prabhupada rejected the idea we ‘originated’ from the impersonal Brahmajyoti (Brahmasayujya) and even the Body of Maha-Vishnu who plants the fallen ‘baddha-jivas’ (the lower secondary state of the marginal living entity) into His mahat-tattva creation.
Srila Prabhupada – “Brahmasayujya (impersonal Brahmajyoti) is minus pleasure. There is eternal existence only. So when they do not find transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss”
Darkness cannot be left over in the presents of light because light dissipates all darkness. In other words while there is light (nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body), darkness (nitya-baddha condition) does not exist.
This means that when one’s ‘awareness’ is AGAIN situated as the eternal presents of their Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa body, the nitya-baddha sub-conscious darkness in the material creation no longer exists.
Srila Prabhupada - “As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself.
In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains.
Now he is in his original position. Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things.
http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
Several do not appreciate the accurate details of how we actually did come down from Goloka due to miss using our free will. We certainly did not come down as our nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body to chase our material desires.
The truth is we are perpetually in Krishna’s pastimes as nitya-siddha right now, within that eternal presence of selfless blissful devotion where nothing factual can perish however, because selfish desires are not a factual reality and not part of the make-up of Goloka or Vaikuntha, they are projected as a spin off reality to mahat-tattva (material creation) that is under the jurisdiction of Maha-Vishnu.
Such self-absorbed mundane self centred thoughts and coveted dreams convince us we are not there with Krishna (as we desired) even though we are ALWAYS with Krishna. In this way, such egocentric dreams and thoughts, like a veil, block out our connection to Krishna by moving us ‘sub-consciously’ to the separated mahat-tattva reality of Maha-Vishnu where we become bogged down in ignorance due to being covered by various subtle and gross material bodies.
We therefore experience this secondary nature (nitya-baddha) to our marginal nitya-siddha identity simply because we choose to do so that places us outside of Goloka and within the material creation.
Even though material realities (the mahat-tattva) are real, there temporary nature makes them an illusion in the face of the perpetual presence of Goloka. And it’s also got nothing to do with sleeping on a bed in Goloka and imaging we are in the material world as some foolishly and disdainfully believe. No, it’s not that type of dreaming at all. Their fabrication of the ‘sleeping on a bed in Goloka’ philosophy of how the jiva falls from Goloka is absolute nonsense!!
The understanding of the word ‘dream’ in regards to the marginal living entity falling from Goloka is significant in Srila Prabhupada’s preaching yet has nothing to do with ‘sleeping’ anywhere; it’s all to do with time. because we don’t really fall, we only think we do as Srila Prabhupada has taught us.
The proper understanding is this. It’s all to do with the ‘eternal presence’ of the imperishable Vaikuntha’s and Goloka compared to the ‘past, present and future’ of the perishable material creation of Maha-Vishnu. The marginal living entity, due to free will and choice, falls out of synch with the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka simply caused by their non-Krsna Consciousness
Lord Krishna states that the constitutional nature of all marginal living beings is that they are eternal servants of the Lord. So to say that ‘conditioned’ souls have never been ‘unconditioned’ in Goloka-Vrndavana is incorrect.
Srila Prabhupada – ““Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord. Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa.
By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position. We have an intimate relationship with the Lord, and because we are all qualitatively one the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gita is to revive our sanatana occupation, or sanatana dharma, which is the eternal occupation of the living entity.
The Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions of eternal association with the Lord.” Bhagavad-gita, Introduction.
As in our case in the material world, we are presently ‘eternally conditioned’ (nitya-baddha) because long, long, long, long ago we made that choice to forget Krishna and simultaneously the ‘awareness’ of our nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) body we serve Krishna as.
When again we achieve deliverance from this material world due to the mercy of pure devotees, we will enter Goloka AGAIN by the method of becoming ‘aware’ of our genuine nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body or in simple terms, we begin to make a distinction of who we really our that separates us from the material dream condition (nitya-baddha fallen consciousness).
Alan Ginsberg – “How did the material covering begin?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Begin?”
Alan Ginsberg – “As the material shadow. How did we fall into that?
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. Yes. That is very natural. . . Because jiva, although para-sakti, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Krishna”.
Alan Ginsberg – “… How did we fall into that?”
Srila Prabhupada – “In the spiritual world, Krishna is the enjoyer. And all others, they are enjoyed–predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, ‘The Lord is predominator; we have to serve.’ When this service attitude is impaired, that–‘Why serve Krishna? Why not ourself?’–that is Maya”. - Room conversation with Allen Ginsberg in Columbus, OH 5-14-69
Srila Prabhupada - “As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains.” http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
ORIGIN OF THE JIVA SOUL - Is the Marginal Living Entity Exclusively from only Goloka or Vaikuntha?
Is the marginal living entity exclusively from only Goloka or Vaikuntha? And if so, how does one fall down from Goloka to the ‘dreaming’ (material) creation of Maha-Vishnu?
Like the roots of a banyan tree, the embodied nitya-baddha soul’s karma weaves and interweaves throughout the temporary material universe or mahat-tattva confusing and inducing the embodied baddha-jiva to the conviction they are their temporary ethereal and biological bodily vessels when factually the entire material creation is nothing other than the imaginations and dreams of the conditioned soul (baddha-jiva) facilitated by the dreaming Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
This quote is an important point when understanding what a ‘dream’ is on the highest platform -
Srila Prabhupada – “The Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
This quote makes it very clear that we cannot compare our mundane biological dreams with the transcendental dreams of Maha-Vishnu or even the marginal living entities secondary inferior unembodied nitya-baddha sub-conscious dream state.
Only when the nitya-baddha dreaming state becomes further contained (They are first contained in an ethereal body within the mahat-tattva) in a biological vessel within the mahat-tattva does its dreams become true illusion and almost meaningless.
However, on the higher material ethereal heavenly worlds where the marginal living entity in their secondary nitya-baddha sub-conscious state is contained in an ethereal body, all thoughts, dreams and imaginations there are on the level of actual reality of the mahat-tattva yet temporary.
Therefore on the heavenly planets of the mahat-tattva and even its Satya-yuga’s on the middle planetary systems like our earth planet, there is also no difference between ‘thoughts’ and ‘actions’.
Only at the end of the Dwarpa-yuga and the entire Kali-yuga does ones thoughts, imaginings and dreams within the biological gross body do not materialize and create karma.
In this way those trapped in the Kali-yuga have dreams and thoughts that ARE dreams or illusion (fantasy) and are not to be confused with the spirit souls dreams or the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. This is an important point because so many are comparing their biological dreams of fantasy with their nitya-baddha dreams of temporary reality.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
Srila Prabhupada – “After being in contact with the material modes of nature, the living entity develops the subtle and gross bodies. When the living entity is fortunate enough to associate with Sri Narada Mahamuni or his servants, he is liberated from this ‘dreamland’ of material creation and the bodily conception of life”. Srimad Bhagavatam 4/29/83/
Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a ‘dream’. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.2.
Srila Prabhupada – “This material world is a product of the mahat-tattva, which is a state of the Lord's dreaming condition in His yoga-nidra mystic slumber in the Causal Ocean, and yet the whole creation appears to be a factual presentation of His creation. This means that the Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations. He can therefore bring everything under His transcendental control, and thus whenever and wherever He does appear, He does so in His fullness”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
We were originally ‘aware’ of ‘always’ being with Krsna, (nitya-siddha) but we chose to forget that fact and become ‘unaware’ of our perpetual nitya-siddha body and service to Krishna because we made the choice to not service Krishna which was the beginning of our fall down.
In that state of forgetfulness we think or dream we have fallen (As nitya-baddha), but actually we are not fallen. We simply have to wake up and remember who we really are, and then we will be in our original position
The dream condition and our dream identity (nitya-baddha conscious state) will then disappear and we will find ourselves in our natural position as nitya-siddha, just like a person who is dreaming wakes up on his own bed. Actually, he is always on his own bed, even in the dream. Similarly, we are always in Goloka even when we ‘dream’ or ‘think’ we are in the material creation.
In this way, Srila Prabhupada gives us the way to understand how we can find ourselves separated from Krsna without really “falling” from Vaikuntha even though it appears we have fallen due to forgetting who we really are. Srila Prabhupada in this way explains in his lectures how the living entities can fall down from their eternal relationship with Krsna without really falling down, this Book how this paradox comes about.
Is the jiva soul always called marginal energy?
Srila Prabhupada - “The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krishna’s marginal energy.” - Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968
Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…(In Vaikuntha) so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, then that is material”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with (This biological body or vessel and the material creation). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - “Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position. Bhagavad-Gita as it is, Introduction.
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". Germany, June 22, 1974
The jiva-soul is always marginal energy wether devotionally active in Goloka-Vrndavana, in Vaikuntha, or active in restricted vessels within the material creation, dormant in the Body of Maha-Vishnu or further inactive in the Vraja River and the Impersonal Brahmajyoti that are ALL occupied by nitya-baddha souls.
It must be clearly understood that ONLY the lower sub-conscious projected baddha-jiva subordinate self comes to these places they had previously have fallen too on possibly many occasions, no jiva-souls originate from the Body of Maha-Vishnu, the material creation, the Vraja River or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna album)
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati - “It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature” Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.
Srila Prabhupada – “Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord”. Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction
Srila Prabhupada – “Therefore the Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions in eternal association with the Lord.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport
Srila Prabhupada – “In his original state, there is no doubt of enjoyment; therefore, that is his real state.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport.
Srila Prabhupada – “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Originally the jiva soul was engaged with Krishna in an original loving selfless relationship as nitya-siddha from which he has fallen however, the fall down was not a physical fall down as their nitya-siddha body but rather was a ‘sub-conscious’ fall down from the ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body which is called the nitya-baddha-jiva
Srila Prabhupada - "We are all originally situated on the platform of Krishna consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of Krishna." - Letter of November 17, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - "He is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet. He is fallen in this material world, and he is again trying to make progress." Srimad Bhagavatam lecture of June 15, 1972
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world . . . There is possibility . . . even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down--what to speak of this material world." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on July 4, 1974
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . we have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
There is always a perpetual personal association with Krishna in the spiritual sky as nitya-siddha previous to being within the body of Maha-Vishnu (That is only temporarily possible as the secondary nitya-baddha ‘dream’ state). Also the idea the jiva soul originates from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Vraja River is also nonsense.
The origin of the jiva from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti is a myth and the origin of the jiva from Maha-Vishnu is another myth.
Srila Prabhupada - "Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration . . . After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls down from Brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna." – Letter to Madhudvisa Swami and Australian devotees 1972
Srila Prabhupada - "We have come from the spiritual world into this material world. We have forgotten our Father. So we have to revive this relationship with our Father . . . God or Krishna." - Lecture on October 7, 1975
Actually we are all pure devotees eternal associates of Krishna but we have forgotten that long, long, long, long, long ago. We have foolishly allowed ourselves to be covered, due to free will and choice, by the cloud of selfish desires, thoughts and dreams that blocks out our memory of who we really are. Such desires place us in dream vessels within the mahat-tattva dream creation of Maha Vishnu.
We just have to comprehend what eternal means. It means that once you are there (or better said; here), in the authentic ‘imperishable’ present, you were always there and will always be there even if you ‘dream’ you are not there. That is the meaning of beginningless, endless or eternal
Srila Prabhupada - "The word varnam refers to the lustre of one's original identity. The original lustre of gold or silver is brilliant. Similarly, the original lustre of the living being, who is part of the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1] , is the lustre of ananda, or pleasure. Anandamayo bhyasat. Every living entity has the right to become anandamaya, joyful, because he is part of the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], Krishna. Why should the living being be put into tribulation because of dirty contamination by the material modes of nature? The living entity should become purified and regain his svarupa, his original identity" Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48
Srila Prabhupada - "But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name . . . " - Letter to Jagadisha das Adhikari on April 25
Every marginal living being in the spiritual world (ALL OF US) as their full potential nitya-siddha body, has free will and the ability to choose. Because we are minute parts (originally and eternally independent bodily forms) of the Supreme, we have minute quantities of His qualities (78%).
One of Krishna’s qualities is independent free will. He does whatever He likes, whenever He likes, and it is always perfect. He is never bound by the reactions of His decisions, because He is transcendental to the material nature.
On the other hand, because we do not possess the same quantity of free will as Krishna, we can sometimes do what we like and sometimes not. Further, whenever we act, we have to suffer or enjoy the reactions of that decision.
Every living being in the spiritual world loves Krishna or God obviously.
This is the nature of the spiritual world. However, that love is not forced. For example, if I were to hold a gun to your head and say,” Love me,” you would naturally say, “Oh, yes, I love (serve) you.” But that would have no meaning. You cannot force anyone to love another person, for love comes from within naturally when the proper conditions arise.
Therefore, Krishna does not force the marginal living entities to love Him, for that would not be real love and it would not be satisfying to the Supreme Lord, who knows everything that is going on in the hearts of the marginal living entities.
Krishna is satisfied only by pure, natural and spontaneous love, without any traces of self-motivated desire, therefore true love (active service) is completely selfless. Consequently Krishna endows each and every marginal living entity with free will. With this free will, one can love Krishna or can choose to ignore Krishna and do their own thing. Free will therefore gives us the ability to forever increase our love for Krishna but can also give us the ability to go it alone without Krishna. If it was not this way, then how can there be genuine love?
The choice is entirely up to the marginal living entity. Those marginal living beings (nitya-siddhas) that love Krishna are situated in their full potential in the spiritual world in the complete ‘awareness’ of who they perpetually are, whereas those marginal living beings who choose to ignore Krishna and therefore NO LONGER continue to be ‘aware’ of their nitya-siddha body in Goloka are situated in the material world as their nitya-baddha secondary state which is but an echoe of their true nitya-siddha identity.
Those who don’t love Krishna, or who have become envious of the Lord’s position as the Supreme Enjoyer, cannot remain in the spiritual world ‘aware’ of their nitya-siddha body even for a moment. If it so happens that a marginal living entity becomes envious of the Lord for some reason, then he immediately falls from the spiritual world, not as their nitya-siddha body, but rather as their nitya-baddha sub-conscious secondary mundane ‘awareness’ for no envy of the Lord exists in the spiritual world.
Remember, the choice to love Krishna or not exists in each of us eternally.
This desire to become the opponent of the Lord, as the enjoyer is a sub-conscious mistaken desire and is not spiritual and therefore is ‘instantly’ transferred to the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.
As all desires in the spiritual world come from the spiritual platform, all marginal living entities there are completely spiritual and fixed as nitya-siddha however, as soon as they ‘sub-consciously’ put themselves before Krishna, they are immediately expelled from Goloka and from also the ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body and are instead immersed in the lower ‘awareness’ of their non-Krishna conscious sub-conscious state that is referred to as the nitya-baddha projected secondary self
Every desire in the spiritual world is immediately satisfied, because that is the nature of the spiritual world. But since the desire to be the Lord is not possible to satisfy in the spiritual world, one comes to the material world as their nitya-baddha sub-conscious bodiless state and given vessels by Maha-Vishnu in order to attempt to fulfil that desire. It is important also to understand that ones ‘svarupa’ or nitya-siddha body also remains in Goloka.
The material world or mahat-tattva is an amazing place, because the Lord has created the majestic DREAM that we can become God and enjoy the creation independently of Him. Krishna has created this dream illusion out of love for us because He allows us</SPAN> to forever increase our love for Him or forget Him if we choose. The choice is always ours. All nitya-siddha pure souls are allowed free will and choice otherwise there is no question of ‘giving love (service)’ however, 90% never ever choose to forget Krishna and enter His material creation.
Nevertheless, it must be understood that it is not in our power to create such a facility like the mahat-tattva separate creation from Krishna’s eternal abode that takes up 25% of the Spiritual creation or Brahmajyoti, while 75% remain within the ‘eternal presents’ of Goloka and Vaikuntha.
We are eternally under the jurisdiction of Krishna directly in Vaikuntha or indirectly in the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. All our facilities come from God
The mahat-tattva is likened to a jail created by state for the sake of the criminals who are not fit to remain in Goloka (due to their own choose and desire). Only Krishna can create such a facility like the mahat-tattva (material creation) via His Maha-Vishnu expansion. He does so just to allow us souls the opportunity to think ourselves God and try to enjoy the material energy separate from Him.
The obvious problem when one denies God and chooses to do their own thing is that the so-called enjoyment in the mahat-tattva is illusory and perishable and cannot remain for long. Everything here is temporary and ends up full of misery and frustration. One works so hard to create a family fortune only to experience hardship, disease, old age and death.
Why has Krishna created a world that is temporary and full of duality and misery like the mahat-tattva? The answer is simple Because He gives us the free will to choose to forever increase our love to Krishna, or use that free will and <SPAN>choose</SPAN> to attempt to enjoy separate from Him.
In either case Krishna supplies us with the mahat-tattva creation from His expansion Maha-Vishnu. He wants us to be happy and if we somehow believe going to the material world will make us happy, then He will facilitate our mistaken desires so we can learn for ourselves that this perishable creation only causes suffering. Krishna wants us to come to our senses and realize we have made a mistake in coming to the material world and to thus return to our original home, the spiritual world of Goloka-Vrndavana.
The material energy pushes the conditioned baddha-jiva souls with frustrations due to its temporary nature so that they will someday again turn towards the Lord, who is within their hearts as the Supersoul, and thus again surrender unto Him and His pure representative and begin to wake up from the material dream.
The Lord says that anyone who thus surrenders unto Him will quickly return to Him. The Lord also assists the marginal living entities by sending His pure devotees to speak the knowledge of the spiritual world to them to again re-awaken them to their genuine eternal nitya-siddha position that is perpetually in Goloka even while their limited ‘awareness’ is in the mahat-tattva (material creation).
Krishna also presents the Vedic literature through His chosen representatives (that can be Vishnu-Tattva or jiva-tattva) to open their eyes with transcendental knowledge of who they really are in the bigger picture of Goloka and Vaikuntha that is outside of the mundane perishable, decaying material creation or mahat-tattva.
The Lord is so concerned for the marginal living entities trapped in ethereal and biological vessels in the material world, that He periodically descends from the spiritual world Himself in order to display His transcendental pastimes and attract the conditioned nitya-baddha souls back to His eternal abode known as Goloka-Vrndavana to again re-establish, regain and remember the ‘awareness’ of their ‘forever present’, full spiritual potential, nitya-siddha ‘svarupa’ body that is ‘forever’ there in Goloka, due to the nature of the eternal presents of Goloka, even while one is ‘sub-consciously’ off as nitya-baddha foolishly dreaming in the mahat-tattva.
How did the marginal living entity fall down from Goloka?
One may also ask, if the marginal living entity has full knowledge in their nitya-siddha spiritual position (the soul is eternally full of knowledge and bliss in its full potential) why did one come to the material world, knowing that it is a place of suffering?
Since we are quantitatively different from the Lord, we can conclude that our quantity of bliss and knowledge is much smaller than that of the Lord, 78% to be exact in our full potential. However, since we are smaller receptacles of knowledge, we can easily be complete in knowledge according to our smaller capacity.
This does not mean that we possess all knowledge. It means that we possess only a small portion of knowledge compared to Krishna and His Vishnu expansions, enough to fulfil all our needs of free will and choice to forever increase our love and service to the Lord Krishna or choose to exist independently in the mahat-tattva.
It is important to understand that all marginal living entities originally come from Goloka
What makes things confusing to several is that some souls, who are actually baddha-jivas while in the material creation, stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva for what seems to be an almost eternity! This means many baddha-jiva souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation if they are not qualified to reunite with their nitya-siddha full potential or perpetual body.
In this way, the baddha-jiva sub-consciousness projection that starts off as a non Krishna conscious dream condition projected from the marginal living entities nitya-siddha body in Goloka is a formless state consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules. T
he baddha-jiva only manifests as form when a bodily vessel is provided by Maha-Vishnu from within his mahat-tattva clothes it. With this explanation, the following comment by Srila Prabhupada that is correctly understood and now made very clear.
It is imperative to recognize that all marginal living entities originally come from Goloka long, long, long, long, long before there ‘awareness’ of themselves was that of a mundane nitya-baddha ‘spiritual spark’, an atom in an effulgence or a ‘molecule’ in the light, such dormant states were attained AFTER their ‘sub-conscious (nitya-baddha)’ imagination of themselves first manifested from Goloka, and AFTER spending millions of life times in the mahat-tattva restricted within bodily containers.
Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his originbut he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna. Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Australia 1972
This is an important revelation at a time (the beginning of the 21st century) when some Vaishnava traditions foolishly mislead others to believe their origins are from the Brahma-sayujya Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, the Vraja River or the Body of Maha-Vishnu. All these states of dormant consciousness are only attained after ones nitya-baddha sub-consciousness first passes through the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu, it is important to understand that NO JIVA-SOUL ORIGINATE FROM MAHA-VISHNU.
Therefore those who foolishly believe and preach, no matter who they are, that ONLY the nitya-siddha jivas are exclusively expansions of Krishna and the ‘marginal jivas’ (like us) are expansions of Maha-Vishnu, are mistaken and have misunderstood Guru, Sadhu and Shastra.
The fact is, ALL of us, all marginal living entities are originally nitya-siddha and have always existed in an eternal state of ever-freshness and youthfulness. These qualities make every nitya-siddha devotee innovative perpetually in the mood of ‘eternal origin’ that has originated from Goloka-Vrndavana.
Srila Prabhupada - “We have all come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago”. Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
Srila Prabhupada in his lectures always says that originally we were all Krishna conscious living entities and on the Hare Krishna album He addresses a large audience with the words:
Srila Prabhupada - “We are all originally Krishna conscious entities . . .”
Srila Prabhupada - “The natural position of the living entity is to serve the Lord in a transcendental loving attitude. When the living entity wants to become Krsna Himself or imitate Krsna, he falls down into the material world. Since Krsna is the supreme father, His affection for the living entity is eternal. When the living entity falls down into the material world, the Supreme Lord, through His svam´sa expansion (Paramatma), keeps company with the living entity. In this way the living entity may some day return home, back to Godhead. Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53
Srila Prabhupada - “By misusing his independence, the living entity falls down from the service of the Lord and takes a position in this material world as an enjoyer. That is to say, the living entity takes his position within a material body. Wanting to take a very exalted position, the living entity instead becomes entangled in a repetition of birth and death. Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53.
While trapped in the material creation, it is very difficult to comprehend that one’s genuine perpetual body, known as ones ‘svarupa’ (OR NITYA-SIDDHA BODY), is eternally situated in Goloka even if one ‘thinks’, ‘dreams’ and ‘imagines’ they are in the material creation as an echo of themselves that is called NITYA-BADDHA.
In other words, to re-again, recover or remember ones ‘real imperishable svarupa identity’ back in the atmosphere of ‘the eternal presence’ and to again become ‘aware’ of the forever increasing loving devotion to Krishna within an eternal mood of ‘free will’ is to experience the full potential of being selflessly nitya-siddha.
The choice to love, serve or not serve Krishna will always be the selection of the marginal living entity to see if it is only Krishna one desires to serve. Without free will or choice, one is no better than a robot or android and is therefore unable to forever ‘choose for themselves’ to increase ones loving service attitude to Lord Krishna and His associates in unlimited ways in Goloka-Vrndavana, Vaikuntha or even in the mahat-tattva.
Once the living entity foolishly chooses to sub-consciously leave the perpetual imperishable Kingdom of God’s ‘eternal present’ (a devotional place devoid of the effect of past, present and future and always active</SPAN> with Krishna’s pastimes) in the Krsnaloka Spiritual Sky to foolishly take shelter of the perishable decaying material creation of material vessels, forgetfulness, fear, illusion, loneliness and pain, that the mahat-tattva dream creation’s of Maha-Vishnu is full of, one is quickly overcome by the maze of material existence and becomes lost within the cycle of birth and death.
The mahat-tattva or material creation, even though described as a dream of the jiva-soul (marginal living entity) and ultimately the dream of Maha Vishnu (Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.83), is also very real (unlike our biological dreams as already explained). His mahat-tattva creation is just as real as Goloka and Vaikuntha, <SPAN>but temporary due to the influence of mundane time of past, present and future.
Srila Prabhupada compares the mahat-tattva to the jail correctional centres in our human society, the mahat-tattva is for those rebellious souls who choose no longer to serve Krishna but instead seek out their own desires and self-absorbed dreams.
Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual (the eternal present) reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan
Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purport.)
This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that we only ‘dream’, ‘imagine’ and ‘think’ we leave however, don’t delude yourself, those dreams are very real although VERY temporary, so factually we do fall down, or rather, ONLY our ‘awareness’ of whom we really are is compromised and we forget not only Krishna but also the body we serve as.
We do experience the material world as real and the fact is, whether we like it or not, yes, we are in the material world because the ‘awareness’ of Goloka and of our svarupa body, is covered by the reality we have created in the material world, it’s very real and only called an illusion because it is temporary, it fades, we see old age, disease and death – even that is experienced as real, even though temporary.
Just like we believe a dream is real while sleeping in our present body. There is a fine line between reality and <illusion, one is imperishable and the other is perishable – explained in a nutshell! The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva, which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti that caters for only 10% of marginal living entities.
Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive (Regain, re-establish, wake up from the dream, remember who we really are as a body eternally in a state of originality) our Krishna consciousness”. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - "As soon as we understand that (my svarupa body is always in Krsnaloka or Vaikuntha or even both), "I have nothing to do with (the material world and its bodily vessels my sub-conscious fallen nitya-baddha condition is housed in). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever (conditioned as nitya-baddha in the material world)" (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are ever-liberated (meaning in our original and eternal state, we are all nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual but is sometimes overcrowded with cloud (known as the mahat-tattva or material creation that is in one corner of the Spiritual Sky), this is Maya (The cloud is created by Maha-Vishnu and His Wife Maya-Devi, through her powerful s'akti, controls all the bodily vessels occupied by the visiting DREAMING baddha-jivas)". Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967
Srila Prabhupada - "This is called Maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)
ALL living entities were created as sat, cit, ananda in the form of eternal vigraha in the beginning (which paradoxically was beginingless). In this way, the original residence of all living entities (marginal beings) is their original home Goloka-Vrndavana or Krsnaloka, which is the imperishable Kingdom of God.
The full potential and original feature of all living entities is a two arm human looking form
Srila Prabhupada - "It is the living entity's constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krishna because he is the marginal energy of Krishna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krishna has three varieties of energy" Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109
All of Krishna's marginal 'sparks' and so called 'atoms (souls) in the effulgence have the same ORIGINAL bodily features like Krishna - sat-cit-ananda-vigraha. The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities is a two arm human looking form
Yasomatinandana – “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”
Madhudvisa – “The question is that whether the eternal form of the spirit soul is a human form or is it”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krishna, two hands, two legs”.
Hari-sauri – “How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?”
Srila Prabhupada – “[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul”.
Hari-sauri - “They are covered in the spiritual world?”
Madhudvisa - “He is asking if they were actually covered in the spiritual world as well”.
Srila Prabhupada - “Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krishna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krishna," he becomes flower, voluntarily”.
Srila Prabhupada – “And he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krishna as cow, he serves Krishna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact". Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975
Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg. 4.11]. That is Krishna’s all-powerfulness, spiritual life."
Hari Sauri dasa – “The fact is that spiritual form is inconceivable to our present senses. In the material world we try to measure things. But to measure anything, there has to be a reference point and our own bodies are the reference we use to understand the rest of the world around us.
Thus our sense of existence is limited to the actions and existence of our own bodies. One devotee has given some examples of drinking or jumping in water or sitting on a chair to explain your experience of past, present and future. Once an action is completed, it is gone, it is in the past. As for the future, it is not manifest to us.
We do not know what will come next. We thus have a sense of separation from the action and the object, both in the past and the future. But in the spiritual world Krishna is the object and all action is for pleasing Him. There is never any separation from Krishna.
Krishna continuously dominates the consciousness of every living being and action is the eternal flow of service to Krishna. It never stops yet it takes on unlimited variety of performance”. (End of quote)
The jiva tattva's take shelter under hladhini s’akti or the mercy of Radharani, they can never become hladhini s’akti because no jiva tattva can become Vishnu tattva - taking shelter, yes, become hladhini S’akti is not possible. Although obviously some Gopis are Vishnu tattva while others are jiva tattva - there is no third category of souls
Srila Prabhupada explains this very clearly - ‘We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities… Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion (vibhinnamsa) is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are’. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968
In Prabhupada’s 1969 lecture on Radhastami, which he gave in London, he said, “Radharani is the pleasure potency, hladhini s’akti.”
The living entities ARE the marginal energy or tatastha s’akti that is not some place or region in the universe as some suggest, but is what we are, there is no something else because there are only two types of living entities – Vishnu-tattva and jiva-tattva
The marginal living entity, jiva-tattva or other words that simple mean jiva tattva, like tatastha s’akti, is a bodily form in their original full constitutional foundation and potential when they realize their true identity of who they really are and have always been, which is expressed as nitya-siddha in their innovative perpetual position.
So marginal, jiva tattva and tatastha simply means the ability to choose the land and the ocean or Goloka and the mahat-tattva. The marginal living entity is therefore known as "tatastha s’akti"
NOTE, there are 170 different ‘jiva’ names that all mean jiva-tattva in different spiritual and material pastimes.
Srila Prabhupada - “The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore, two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). Letter Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu
Srila Prabhupada - "The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-Maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- Maya). SB 3.23.10 pp.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.
Srila Prabhupada - "The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp.
Srila Prabhupada - "The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY; he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord." BG 13.23 pp.
In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently.
So, marginal energy, or tatastha-s’akti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul.
It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities.
Srila Prabhupada - "If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96)
Srila Prabhupada never used the word ‘tatastha s’akti much in his books, he preferred to use the word ‘marginal’ living entity.
Srila Prabhupada ‘personally’ told me (Gauragopala dasa) once in the Sydney Temple room in February 1973 (while I was cleaning) that the body I now have is not my real body and that my real body is in Vaikuntha “You just have to realize it” he added “It is there right now” he further explained. Being very young I did not fully appreciate what he was saying.
We have to realize that being <SPAN>marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to comprehend. We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire.
Srila Prabhupada - “The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krishna’s marginal energy.” - Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968
Like the roots of a banyan tree, the embodied nitya-baddha soul’s karma weaves and interweaves throughout the temporary material universe or mahat-tattva confusing and inducing the embodied baddha-jiva to the conviction they are their temporary ethereal and biological bodily vessels when factually the entire material creation is nothing other than the imaginations and dreams of the conditioned soul (baddha-jiva) facilitated by the dreaming Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
This quote is an important point when understanding what a ‘dream’ is on the highest platform -
Srila Prabhupada – “The Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
This quote makes it very clear that we cannot compare our mundane biological dreams with the transcendental dreams of Maha-Vishnu or even the marginal living entities secondary inferior unembodied nitya-baddha sub-conscious dream state.
Only when the nitya-baddha dreaming state becomes further contained (They are first contained in an ethereal body within the mahat-tattva) in a biological vessel within the mahat-tattva does its dreams become true illusion and almost meaningless.
However, on the higher material ethereal heavenly worlds where the marginal living entity in their secondary nitya-baddha sub-conscious state is contained in an ethereal body, all thoughts, dreams and imaginations there are on the level of actual reality of the mahat-tattva yet temporary.
Therefore on the heavenly planets of the mahat-tattva and even its Satya-yuga’s on the middle planetary systems like our earth planet, there is also no difference between ‘thoughts’ and ‘actions’.
Only at the end of the Dwarpa-yuga and the entire Kali-yuga does ones thoughts, imaginings and dreams within the biological gross body do not materialize and create karma.
In this way those trapped in the Kali-yuga have dreams and thoughts that ARE dreams or illusion (fantasy) and are not to be confused with the spirit souls dreams or the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. This is an important point because so many are comparing their biological dreams of fantasy with their nitya-baddha dreams of temporary reality.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
Srila Prabhupada – “After being in contact with the material modes of nature, the living entity develops the subtle and gross bodies. When the living entity is fortunate enough to associate with Sri Narada Mahamuni or his servants, he is liberated from this ‘dreamland’ of material creation and the bodily conception of life”. Srimad Bhagavatam 4/29/83/
Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a ‘dream’. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.2.
Srila Prabhupada – “This material world is a product of the mahat-tattva, which is a state of the Lord's dreaming condition in His yoga-nidra mystic slumber in the Causal Ocean, and yet the whole creation appears to be a factual presentation of His creation. This means that the Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations. He can therefore bring everything under His transcendental control, and thus whenever and wherever He does appear, He does so in His fullness”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
We were originally ‘aware’ of ‘always’ being with Krsna, (nitya-siddha) but we chose to forget that fact and become ‘unaware’ of our perpetual nitya-siddha body and service to Krishna because we made the choice to not service Krishna which was the beginning of our fall down.
In that state of forgetfulness we think or dream we have fallen (As nitya-baddha), but actually we are not fallen. We simply have to wake up and remember who we really are, and then we will be in our original position
The dream condition and our dream identity (nitya-baddha conscious state) will then disappear and we will find ourselves in our natural position as nitya-siddha, just like a person who is dreaming wakes up on his own bed. Actually, he is always on his own bed, even in the dream. Similarly, we are always in Goloka even when we ‘dream’ or ‘think’ we are in the material creation.
In this way, Srila Prabhupada gives us the way to understand how we can find ourselves separated from Krsna without really “falling” from Vaikuntha even though it appears we have fallen due to forgetting who we really are. Srila Prabhupada in this way explains in his lectures how the living entities can fall down from their eternal relationship with Krsna without really falling down, this Book how this paradox comes about.
Is the jiva soul always called marginal energy?
Srila Prabhupada - “The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krishna’s marginal energy.” - Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968
Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…(In Vaikuntha) so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, then that is material”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with (This biological body or vessel and the material creation). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - “Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position. Bhagavad-Gita as it is, Introduction.
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". Germany, June 22, 1974
The jiva-soul is always marginal energy wether devotionally active in Goloka-Vrndavana, in Vaikuntha, or active in restricted vessels within the material creation, dormant in the Body of Maha-Vishnu or further inactive in the Vraja River and the Impersonal Brahmajyoti that are ALL occupied by nitya-baddha souls.
It must be clearly understood that ONLY the lower sub-conscious projected baddha-jiva subordinate self comes to these places they had previously have fallen too on possibly many occasions, no jiva-souls originate from the Body of Maha-Vishnu, the material creation, the Vraja River or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna album)
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati - “It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature” Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.
Srila Prabhupada – “Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord”. Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction
Srila Prabhupada – “Therefore the Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions in eternal association with the Lord.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport
Srila Prabhupada – “In his original state, there is no doubt of enjoyment; therefore, that is his real state.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport.
Srila Prabhupada – “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Originally the jiva soul was engaged with Krishna in an original loving selfless relationship as nitya-siddha from which he has fallen however, the fall down was not a physical fall down as their nitya-siddha body but rather was a ‘sub-conscious’ fall down from the ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body which is called the nitya-baddha-jiva
Srila Prabhupada - "We are all originally situated on the platform of Krishna consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of Krishna." - Letter of November 17, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - "He is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet. He is fallen in this material world, and he is again trying to make progress." Srimad Bhagavatam lecture of June 15, 1972
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world . . . There is possibility . . . even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down--what to speak of this material world." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on July 4, 1974
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . we have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
There is always a perpetual personal association with Krishna in the spiritual sky as nitya-siddha previous to being within the body of Maha-Vishnu (That is only temporarily possible as the secondary nitya-baddha ‘dream’ state). Also the idea the jiva soul originates from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Vraja River is also nonsense.
The origin of the jiva from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti is a myth and the origin of the jiva from Maha-Vishnu is another myth.
Srila Prabhupada - "Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration . . . After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls down from Brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna." – Letter to Madhudvisa Swami and Australian devotees 1972
Srila Prabhupada - "We have come from the spiritual world into this material world. We have forgotten our Father. So we have to revive this relationship with our Father . . . God or Krishna." - Lecture on October 7, 1975
Actually we are all pure devotees eternal associates of Krishna but we have forgotten that long, long, long, long, long ago. We have foolishly allowed ourselves to be covered, due to free will and choice, by the cloud of selfish desires, thoughts and dreams that blocks out our memory of who we really are. Such desires place us in dream vessels within the mahat-tattva dream creation of Maha Vishnu.
We just have to comprehend what eternal means. It means that once you are there (or better said; here), in the authentic ‘imperishable’ present, you were always there and will always be there even if you ‘dream’ you are not there. That is the meaning of beginningless, endless or eternal
Srila Prabhupada - "The word varnam refers to the lustre of one's original identity. The original lustre of gold or silver is brilliant. Similarly, the original lustre of the living being, who is part of the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1] , is the lustre of ananda, or pleasure. Anandamayo bhyasat. Every living entity has the right to become anandamaya, joyful, because he is part of the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], Krishna. Why should the living being be put into tribulation because of dirty contamination by the material modes of nature? The living entity should become purified and regain his svarupa, his original identity" Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48
Srila Prabhupada - "But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name . . . " - Letter to Jagadisha das Adhikari on April 25
Every marginal living being in the spiritual world (ALL OF US) as their full potential nitya-siddha body, has free will and the ability to choose. Because we are minute parts (originally and eternally independent bodily forms) of the Supreme, we have minute quantities of His qualities (78%).
One of Krishna’s qualities is independent free will. He does whatever He likes, whenever He likes, and it is always perfect. He is never bound by the reactions of His decisions, because He is transcendental to the material nature.
On the other hand, because we do not possess the same quantity of free will as Krishna, we can sometimes do what we like and sometimes not. Further, whenever we act, we have to suffer or enjoy the reactions of that decision.
Every living being in the spiritual world loves Krishna or God obviously.
This is the nature of the spiritual world. However, that love is not forced. For example, if I were to hold a gun to your head and say,” Love me,” you would naturally say, “Oh, yes, I love (serve) you.” But that would have no meaning. You cannot force anyone to love another person, for love comes from within naturally when the proper conditions arise.
Therefore, Krishna does not force the marginal living entities to love Him, for that would not be real love and it would not be satisfying to the Supreme Lord, who knows everything that is going on in the hearts of the marginal living entities.
Krishna is satisfied only by pure, natural and spontaneous love, without any traces of self-motivated desire, therefore true love (active service) is completely selfless. Consequently Krishna endows each and every marginal living entity with free will. With this free will, one can love Krishna or can choose to ignore Krishna and do their own thing. Free will therefore gives us the ability to forever increase our love for Krishna but can also give us the ability to go it alone without Krishna. If it was not this way, then how can there be genuine love?
The choice is entirely up to the marginal living entity. Those marginal living beings (nitya-siddhas) that love Krishna are situated in their full potential in the spiritual world in the complete ‘awareness’ of who they perpetually are, whereas those marginal living beings who choose to ignore Krishna and therefore NO LONGER continue to be ‘aware’ of their nitya-siddha body in Goloka are situated in the material world as their nitya-baddha secondary state which is but an echoe of their true nitya-siddha identity.
Those who don’t love Krishna, or who have become envious of the Lord’s position as the Supreme Enjoyer, cannot remain in the spiritual world ‘aware’ of their nitya-siddha body even for a moment. If it so happens that a marginal living entity becomes envious of the Lord for some reason, then he immediately falls from the spiritual world, not as their nitya-siddha body, but rather as their nitya-baddha sub-conscious secondary mundane ‘awareness’ for no envy of the Lord exists in the spiritual world.
Remember, the choice to love Krishna or not exists in each of us eternally.
This desire to become the opponent of the Lord, as the enjoyer is a sub-conscious mistaken desire and is not spiritual and therefore is ‘instantly’ transferred to the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.
As all desires in the spiritual world come from the spiritual platform, all marginal living entities there are completely spiritual and fixed as nitya-siddha however, as soon as they ‘sub-consciously’ put themselves before Krishna, they are immediately expelled from Goloka and from also the ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body and are instead immersed in the lower ‘awareness’ of their non-Krishna conscious sub-conscious state that is referred to as the nitya-baddha projected secondary self
Every desire in the spiritual world is immediately satisfied, because that is the nature of the spiritual world. But since the desire to be the Lord is not possible to satisfy in the spiritual world, one comes to the material world as their nitya-baddha sub-conscious bodiless state and given vessels by Maha-Vishnu in order to attempt to fulfil that desire. It is important also to understand that ones ‘svarupa’ or nitya-siddha body also remains in Goloka.
The material world or mahat-tattva is an amazing place, because the Lord has created the majestic DREAM that we can become God and enjoy the creation independently of Him. Krishna has created this dream illusion out of love for us because He allows us</SPAN> to forever increase our love for Him or forget Him if we choose. The choice is always ours. All nitya-siddha pure souls are allowed free will and choice otherwise there is no question of ‘giving love (service)’ however, 90% never ever choose to forget Krishna and enter His material creation.
Nevertheless, it must be understood that it is not in our power to create such a facility like the mahat-tattva separate creation from Krishna’s eternal abode that takes up 25% of the Spiritual creation or Brahmajyoti, while 75% remain within the ‘eternal presents’ of Goloka and Vaikuntha.
We are eternally under the jurisdiction of Krishna directly in Vaikuntha or indirectly in the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. All our facilities come from God
The mahat-tattva is likened to a jail created by state for the sake of the criminals who are not fit to remain in Goloka (due to their own choose and desire). Only Krishna can create such a facility like the mahat-tattva (material creation) via His Maha-Vishnu expansion. He does so just to allow us souls the opportunity to think ourselves God and try to enjoy the material energy separate from Him.
The obvious problem when one denies God and chooses to do their own thing is that the so-called enjoyment in the mahat-tattva is illusory and perishable and cannot remain for long. Everything here is temporary and ends up full of misery and frustration. One works so hard to create a family fortune only to experience hardship, disease, old age and death.
Why has Krishna created a world that is temporary and full of duality and misery like the mahat-tattva? The answer is simple Because He gives us the free will to choose to forever increase our love to Krishna, or use that free will and <SPAN>choose</SPAN> to attempt to enjoy separate from Him.
In either case Krishna supplies us with the mahat-tattva creation from His expansion Maha-Vishnu. He wants us to be happy and if we somehow believe going to the material world will make us happy, then He will facilitate our mistaken desires so we can learn for ourselves that this perishable creation only causes suffering. Krishna wants us to come to our senses and realize we have made a mistake in coming to the material world and to thus return to our original home, the spiritual world of Goloka-Vrndavana.
The material energy pushes the conditioned baddha-jiva souls with frustrations due to its temporary nature so that they will someday again turn towards the Lord, who is within their hearts as the Supersoul, and thus again surrender unto Him and His pure representative and begin to wake up from the material dream.
The Lord says that anyone who thus surrenders unto Him will quickly return to Him. The Lord also assists the marginal living entities by sending His pure devotees to speak the knowledge of the spiritual world to them to again re-awaken them to their genuine eternal nitya-siddha position that is perpetually in Goloka even while their limited ‘awareness’ is in the mahat-tattva (material creation).
Krishna also presents the Vedic literature through His chosen representatives (that can be Vishnu-Tattva or jiva-tattva) to open their eyes with transcendental knowledge of who they really are in the bigger picture of Goloka and Vaikuntha that is outside of the mundane perishable, decaying material creation or mahat-tattva.
The Lord is so concerned for the marginal living entities trapped in ethereal and biological vessels in the material world, that He periodically descends from the spiritual world Himself in order to display His transcendental pastimes and attract the conditioned nitya-baddha souls back to His eternal abode known as Goloka-Vrndavana to again re-establish, regain and remember the ‘awareness’ of their ‘forever present’, full spiritual potential, nitya-siddha ‘svarupa’ body that is ‘forever’ there in Goloka, due to the nature of the eternal presents of Goloka, even while one is ‘sub-consciously’ off as nitya-baddha foolishly dreaming in the mahat-tattva.
How did the marginal living entity fall down from Goloka?
One may also ask, if the marginal living entity has full knowledge in their nitya-siddha spiritual position (the soul is eternally full of knowledge and bliss in its full potential) why did one come to the material world, knowing that it is a place of suffering?
Since we are quantitatively different from the Lord, we can conclude that our quantity of bliss and knowledge is much smaller than that of the Lord, 78% to be exact in our full potential. However, since we are smaller receptacles of knowledge, we can easily be complete in knowledge according to our smaller capacity.
This does not mean that we possess all knowledge. It means that we possess only a small portion of knowledge compared to Krishna and His Vishnu expansions, enough to fulfil all our needs of free will and choice to forever increase our love and service to the Lord Krishna or choose to exist independently in the mahat-tattva.
It is important to understand that all marginal living entities originally come from Goloka
What makes things confusing to several is that some souls, who are actually baddha-jivas while in the material creation, stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva for what seems to be an almost eternity! This means many baddha-jiva souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation if they are not qualified to reunite with their nitya-siddha full potential or perpetual body.
In this way, the baddha-jiva sub-consciousness projection that starts off as a non Krishna conscious dream condition projected from the marginal living entities nitya-siddha body in Goloka is a formless state consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules. T
he baddha-jiva only manifests as form when a bodily vessel is provided by Maha-Vishnu from within his mahat-tattva clothes it. With this explanation, the following comment by Srila Prabhupada that is correctly understood and now made very clear.
It is imperative to recognize that all marginal living entities originally come from Goloka long, long, long, long, long before there ‘awareness’ of themselves was that of a mundane nitya-baddha ‘spiritual spark’, an atom in an effulgence or a ‘molecule’ in the light, such dormant states were attained AFTER their ‘sub-conscious (nitya-baddha)’ imagination of themselves first manifested from Goloka, and AFTER spending millions of life times in the mahat-tattva restricted within bodily containers.
Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his originbut he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna. Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Australia 1972
This is an important revelation at a time (the beginning of the 21st century) when some Vaishnava traditions foolishly mislead others to believe their origins are from the Brahma-sayujya Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, the Vraja River or the Body of Maha-Vishnu. All these states of dormant consciousness are only attained after ones nitya-baddha sub-consciousness first passes through the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu, it is important to understand that NO JIVA-SOUL ORIGINATE FROM MAHA-VISHNU.
Therefore those who foolishly believe and preach, no matter who they are, that ONLY the nitya-siddha jivas are exclusively expansions of Krishna and the ‘marginal jivas’ (like us) are expansions of Maha-Vishnu, are mistaken and have misunderstood Guru, Sadhu and Shastra.
The fact is, ALL of us, all marginal living entities are originally nitya-siddha and have always existed in an eternal state of ever-freshness and youthfulness. These qualities make every nitya-siddha devotee innovative perpetually in the mood of ‘eternal origin’ that has originated from Goloka-Vrndavana.
Srila Prabhupada - “We have all come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago”. Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
Srila Prabhupada in his lectures always says that originally we were all Krishna conscious living entities and on the Hare Krishna album He addresses a large audience with the words:
Srila Prabhupada - “We are all originally Krishna conscious entities . . .”
Srila Prabhupada - “The natural position of the living entity is to serve the Lord in a transcendental loving attitude. When the living entity wants to become Krsna Himself or imitate Krsna, he falls down into the material world. Since Krsna is the supreme father, His affection for the living entity is eternal. When the living entity falls down into the material world, the Supreme Lord, through His svam´sa expansion (Paramatma), keeps company with the living entity. In this way the living entity may some day return home, back to Godhead. Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53
Srila Prabhupada - “By misusing his independence, the living entity falls down from the service of the Lord and takes a position in this material world as an enjoyer. That is to say, the living entity takes his position within a material body. Wanting to take a very exalted position, the living entity instead becomes entangled in a repetition of birth and death. Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53.
While trapped in the material creation, it is very difficult to comprehend that one’s genuine perpetual body, known as ones ‘svarupa’ (OR NITYA-SIDDHA BODY), is eternally situated in Goloka even if one ‘thinks’, ‘dreams’ and ‘imagines’ they are in the material creation as an echo of themselves that is called NITYA-BADDHA.
In other words, to re-again, recover or remember ones ‘real imperishable svarupa identity’ back in the atmosphere of ‘the eternal presence’ and to again become ‘aware’ of the forever increasing loving devotion to Krishna within an eternal mood of ‘free will’ is to experience the full potential of being selflessly nitya-siddha.
The choice to love, serve or not serve Krishna will always be the selection of the marginal living entity to see if it is only Krishna one desires to serve. Without free will or choice, one is no better than a robot or android and is therefore unable to forever ‘choose for themselves’ to increase ones loving service attitude to Lord Krishna and His associates in unlimited ways in Goloka-Vrndavana, Vaikuntha or even in the mahat-tattva.
Once the living entity foolishly chooses to sub-consciously leave the perpetual imperishable Kingdom of God’s ‘eternal present’ (a devotional place devoid of the effect of past, present and future and always active</SPAN> with Krishna’s pastimes) in the Krsnaloka Spiritual Sky to foolishly take shelter of the perishable decaying material creation of material vessels, forgetfulness, fear, illusion, loneliness and pain, that the mahat-tattva dream creation’s of Maha-Vishnu is full of, one is quickly overcome by the maze of material existence and becomes lost within the cycle of birth and death.
The mahat-tattva or material creation, even though described as a dream of the jiva-soul (marginal living entity) and ultimately the dream of Maha Vishnu (Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.83), is also very real (unlike our biological dreams as already explained). His mahat-tattva creation is just as real as Goloka and Vaikuntha, <SPAN>but temporary due to the influence of mundane time of past, present and future.
Srila Prabhupada compares the mahat-tattva to the jail correctional centres in our human society, the mahat-tattva is for those rebellious souls who choose no longer to serve Krishna but instead seek out their own desires and self-absorbed dreams.
Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual (the eternal present) reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan
Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purport.)
This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that we only ‘dream’, ‘imagine’ and ‘think’ we leave however, don’t delude yourself, those dreams are very real although VERY temporary, so factually we do fall down, or rather, ONLY our ‘awareness’ of whom we really are is compromised and we forget not only Krishna but also the body we serve as.
We do experience the material world as real and the fact is, whether we like it or not, yes, we are in the material world because the ‘awareness’ of Goloka and of our svarupa body, is covered by the reality we have created in the material world, it’s very real and only called an illusion because it is temporary, it fades, we see old age, disease and death – even that is experienced as real, even though temporary.
Just like we believe a dream is real while sleeping in our present body. There is a fine line between reality and <illusion, one is imperishable and the other is perishable – explained in a nutshell! The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva, which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti that caters for only 10% of marginal living entities.
Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive (Regain, re-establish, wake up from the dream, remember who we really are as a body eternally in a state of originality) our Krishna consciousness”. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - "As soon as we understand that (my svarupa body is always in Krsnaloka or Vaikuntha or even both), "I have nothing to do with (the material world and its bodily vessels my sub-conscious fallen nitya-baddha condition is housed in). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever (conditioned as nitya-baddha in the material world)" (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are ever-liberated (meaning in our original and eternal state, we are all nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual but is sometimes overcrowded with cloud (known as the mahat-tattva or material creation that is in one corner of the Spiritual Sky), this is Maya (The cloud is created by Maha-Vishnu and His Wife Maya-Devi, through her powerful s'akti, controls all the bodily vessels occupied by the visiting DREAMING baddha-jivas)". Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967
Srila Prabhupada - "This is called Maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)
ALL living entities were created as sat, cit, ananda in the form of eternal vigraha in the beginning (which paradoxically was beginingless). In this way, the original residence of all living entities (marginal beings) is their original home Goloka-Vrndavana or Krsnaloka, which is the imperishable Kingdom of God.
The full potential and original feature of all living entities is a two arm human looking form
Srila Prabhupada - "It is the living entity's constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krishna because he is the marginal energy of Krishna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krishna has three varieties of energy" Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109
All of Krishna's marginal 'sparks' and so called 'atoms (souls) in the effulgence have the same ORIGINAL bodily features like Krishna - sat-cit-ananda-vigraha. The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities is a two arm human looking form
Yasomatinandana – “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”
Madhudvisa – “The question is that whether the eternal form of the spirit soul is a human form or is it”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krishna, two hands, two legs”.
Hari-sauri – “How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?”
Srila Prabhupada – “[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul”.
Hari-sauri - “They are covered in the spiritual world?”
Madhudvisa - “He is asking if they were actually covered in the spiritual world as well”.
Srila Prabhupada - “Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krishna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krishna," he becomes flower, voluntarily”.
Srila Prabhupada – “And he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krishna as cow, he serves Krishna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact". Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975
Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg. 4.11]. That is Krishna’s all-powerfulness, spiritual life."
Hari Sauri dasa – “The fact is that spiritual form is inconceivable to our present senses. In the material world we try to measure things. But to measure anything, there has to be a reference point and our own bodies are the reference we use to understand the rest of the world around us.
Thus our sense of existence is limited to the actions and existence of our own bodies. One devotee has given some examples of drinking or jumping in water or sitting on a chair to explain your experience of past, present and future. Once an action is completed, it is gone, it is in the past. As for the future, it is not manifest to us.
We do not know what will come next. We thus have a sense of separation from the action and the object, both in the past and the future. But in the spiritual world Krishna is the object and all action is for pleasing Him. There is never any separation from Krishna.
Krishna continuously dominates the consciousness of every living being and action is the eternal flow of service to Krishna. It never stops yet it takes on unlimited variety of performance”. (End of quote)
The jiva tattva's take shelter under hladhini s’akti or the mercy of Radharani, they can never become hladhini s’akti because no jiva tattva can become Vishnu tattva - taking shelter, yes, become hladhini S’akti is not possible. Although obviously some Gopis are Vishnu tattva while others are jiva tattva - there is no third category of souls
Srila Prabhupada explains this very clearly - ‘We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities… Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion (vibhinnamsa) is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are’. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968
In Prabhupada’s 1969 lecture on Radhastami, which he gave in London, he said, “Radharani is the pleasure potency, hladhini s’akti.”
The living entities ARE the marginal energy or tatastha s’akti that is not some place or region in the universe as some suggest, but is what we are, there is no something else because there are only two types of living entities – Vishnu-tattva and jiva-tattva
The marginal living entity, jiva-tattva or other words that simple mean jiva tattva, like tatastha s’akti, is a bodily form in their original full constitutional foundation and potential when they realize their true identity of who they really are and have always been, which is expressed as nitya-siddha in their innovative perpetual position.
So marginal, jiva tattva and tatastha simply means the ability to choose the land and the ocean or Goloka and the mahat-tattva. The marginal living entity is therefore known as "tatastha s’akti"
NOTE, there are 170 different ‘jiva’ names that all mean jiva-tattva in different spiritual and material pastimes.
Srila Prabhupada - “The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore, two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). Letter Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu
Srila Prabhupada - "The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-Maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- Maya). SB 3.23.10 pp.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.
Srila Prabhupada - "The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp.
Srila Prabhupada - "The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY; he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord." BG 13.23 pp.
In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently.
So, marginal energy, or tatastha-s’akti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul.
It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities.
Srila Prabhupada - "If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96)
Srila Prabhupada never used the word ‘tatastha s’akti much in his books, he preferred to use the word ‘marginal’ living entity.
Srila Prabhupada ‘personally’ told me (Gauragopala dasa) once in the Sydney Temple room in February 1973 (while I was cleaning) that the body I now have is not my real body and that my real body is in Vaikuntha “You just have to realize it” he added “It is there right now” he further explained. Being very young I did not fully appreciate what he was saying.
We have to realize that being <SPAN>marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to comprehend. We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire.
Srila Prabhupada - “The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krishna’s marginal energy.” - Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)