The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievements, and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly.

Devotees of Krishna on the front lines of preaching.

Srila Prabhupada told us long ago we can take good instructions from anyone that describes the genuine devotees of Krishna-

“It is not the critic that counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or whether the doer of the deeds could of done them better. 

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievements, and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat”

The pioneering days of ISKCON in Australia when we were jailed for chanting Hare Krishna on City Streets.

15 years before the Soviet Union world wide campaign for their freedom began, devotees in some Western Countries like Australia, had to fight and also go to jail for their freedom too.

In February 1972, the Melbourne City Council in Australia began a Campaign to try and move the Hare Krishna devotees away from the City streets and out of Melbourne.

This struggle with the Council would continue on for another three years, with devotees constantly jailed and the Temple raided at 3 am to arrest devotees with unpaid fines for chanting Hare Krishna on the streets and selling "Back to Godhead Magazine" (no big books back then).

Not only were the devotees continuously harassed on the streets by Council, now more oftened we were being harassed in our own Temple with middle of the night Police raids looking for devotees who had never paid their fines also for performing drama plays in the Melbourne City square.

Back then we did many plays every day on the streets dipicting Krishna or Lord Caitanya's pastimes.

The Hare Krishna Movement arrived in Australia in March 1970, there were no devotees in Australia or New Zealand in the 1960s.

Upananda Prabhu (Srila Prabhupada’s first initiated disciple in Australia May 1970) now Avadhoot Maharaj was first approached by the Melbourne City council in April of 72 about chanting in the streets and fines placed on our Sankirtan Van; Upananda humbly explained to these gentlemen that everything belongs to Krsna.

He strongly told them, in the mood of Srila Prabhupada, that they should be assisting and allowing the devotees of Lord Krsna to park freely while we perform Kirtan or chanting Hare Krsna on the streets of the City of Melbourne and performing Drama plays in the City square.

The Council officers couldn’t believe what they just heard. With a look of complete bewilderment at Upananda’s totally fearless bold proposal, the Council officers angrily said “Are you on drugs, you must be on something, I’ve never ever heard anything so preposterous!”

Upananda in his always-calm layback gentle voice replied “No, we don’t take any drugs, we don’t need that nonsense because we chant Hare Krsna and as I suggested, you should also seriously consider joining us, you can even chant with us if you like during your lunch break”

Hearing what they considered a smart ‘so and so’ answer, they ordered Upananda to immediately get the devotees to cease chanting on the City streets, stop performing drama plays that depicting the wonderful past times of Lord Caitanya and His devotees, and stop parking illegally otherwise we will throw you all in Jail!!

Of course, stopping our street activities never happened. Eventually as the harassment intensified, we nick named the head Council officer ‘Kamsa’ because of his determination to get rid of the Hare Krsna devotees.

He looked really mean to us with his "square jaw" that became a second nick name for him amongst the devotees.

In those days, in-between chanting on the streets, and distributing Back To Godhead Magazine, we would always put on colourful plays in beautiful costumes during lunchtime in the city square or at the Melbourne University.

These Dramas would attract huge crowds, sometimes hundreds of people however; we were always ready for the Council or police to pounce.

One time we had a big fire yajna (sacrifice) in the City Square to perform a devotee marriage in view of the public.

We started the fire, began chanting various mantras, attracting a big crowd then all of a sudden, the police, fire brigade, and Council Officers came from all direction nevertheless, we all got away, including bride Rasarani devi dasi and groom Amogha dasa.

Over the next few months however, many devotees did get caught and went to jail over the Councils so-called illegal street chanting and Dramas that were simply beautifully done to glorify God known as Krishna.

Another time we put on the play Jagai and Madai about two fallen devotees now drunkards who offended Lord Nityananda and Haridas Thakur by throwing a clay pot at Lord Nityananda, that hit Him in the head leaving a cut.

To make this play look real, Sanak dasa Stavros Steve Vergis asked hippies in the crowd to play the part of Jagai and Madai.

However, when the two hippies in the crowd threw the clay pot at the devotee actor, the part of Lord Nityananda, pretending it hit him, two police officers at the back of the crowd thought it was real and the devotees were being assaulted.

Immediately the Police started chasing them with their baton (cops carried batons back then) but then Sanak started chasing the cops yelling out -

"It's only a play, it's only a play!!"

Anyway, as this went on the play contined and the devotee playing Lord Caitanya arrived on seen and was furious that Nityananda was assaulted by the two drunkards however, Lord Nityananda begged mercy for the two drunken rascal.

Seeing the great compassion of Lord Nityananda, Lord Caitanya forgave Jagai and Madai.

Although the actors playing Jagai and Madai were still being chased down by the cops, and Sanak chasing the cops trying to explain to them it is only a play.

Back in the City square, the two drunkards were suppose to fall down at Lord Nityananda's feet due to His great compassion and then showing forgiveness.

The fact is Lord Nityananda is even more compassionate, compassionate and forgiving than Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself.

Back in those days devotees were chanting seven or eight hours a day through the city streets, and at the same time other devotees were putting on plays at the Uni or City square.

In both situations, we were always dogging City Council officers and Police although some Police tolerated us and never harrassed us unlike the Council who wanted us gone

Some Police never bothered us as long as we stayed to the side of the walk way as we chanted.

But NEVER the Council, they were determined to get us off Melbourne Streets.

In spite of this, nothing could stop us, we new we had Srila Prabhupada guiding us, we were therefore determined to practise our civil right and publicly glorify God no matter how determined the Council were in trying to stop us.

We had Krsna on our side!

As a further protest, as earlier explained, we also refused to pay any our traffic fines that our Van accumulated everyday.

We would continue doing this until the Council allowed us our ‘human right’ to glorify Krsna on the streets of Melbourne without harassment from the Council Officers and the Police.

It got to the point where EVERY Council officer looked for our Van during the day as depicted in the cartoon below.

So, for the next three years, they just kept giving us traffic tickets that we refused to pay and fines for chanting (Sankirtan) we also refused to pay.

By then even the Police started getting heavier.

So every day they chased us in cat and mouse style pursuit, locking up those they caught for ‘chanting Hare Krsna’ on the streets or performing Dramas or plays.

Eventually we would accumulate $60,000 in traffic fines and thousands of more dollars in ‘chanting on the street’ fines.

On another occasion in October 1972, that for the first time, attracted enormous media coverage, we were caught and arrested for chanting Hare Krsna in the City; I was playing mrdunga drum and Sanak was leading with cartals.

In a surprise show of heavy aggression, the police and City Council Officers swooped on our party of 14 brahmacaris and matajis, devotees ran in all directions but Sanak and myself were slowed down due to protecting the clay mrdunga and carrying large Krsna Books that had recently arrived.

Most of the time I would get away from ‘Square Jaw’ and his Council cronies, as I was very athletic in those days however, on this occasion we got busted and dragged away to Jail. This was my second visit to jail within two months for chanting Hare Krsna.

At Police Headquarters, we were questioned and refused bail and spent the night in the City Watchhouse (jail).

The Police were, for some reason, very annoyed at us and wouldn’t provide bail due to what they called, "not cooperating".

The fact was, we did cooperate. They separated us for an interview and we answered their questions honestly.

The officer who interviewed me, asked my name, I replied “Gauragopala dasa brahmacari”, adding my spiritual Master gave that name in July (1972) a few months earlier.

"That's a long name" the officer said.

I thought to myself, Wow, you think my name was short chuckled under my breath, ‘you’ve heard nothin yet’

He then asked me for my father’s name, “Do you really want to know that “ I answered

“Yes, we haven’t got all day, just give me his name,” the officer demanded.

So slowly, I began to give my fathers name to him so he could write it down as I was spoke,

“Jaya om Vishnu-pada paramahamsa parivrajakacharya ashtottara-shata
Sri Srimad His Divine Grace Abhay Charanaravinda Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.”

And at the end in a louder voice I shouted “KI JAYA!!”

The officer looked at me with this dumb surprised annoyed look of bewilderment, thinking I was being smart so and so and disrespectful to him however, I kept repeating that this WAS my fathers real name in full.

In the end the officer just gave up and threw us in jail.

The next morning Kurma dasa and myself went to court, we refused to pay the fine, and were sent straight to Pentridge prison for a 10-day sentence.

As we were being taken, away both Sanak prabhu and Cittahari Prabhu (then as Chris prabhu) told us that Madhudvisa Swami said we should make a stand and austerely fast.

So, as a further protest to let the Council know their laws in this case, were unjust, I refused to eat their boga and began a fast.

I also remembered an encouraging quote from the American Civil rights leader Martin Luther King at who was assassinated four years earlier; he was a hero to me before I met Srila Prabhupada, King once said:

“An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law’.

Anyway, the prison authorities never separate us and locked us in the same cell.

We chanted with our fingers like the way we do the gayatri mantra because they had confiscated our beads however, they did allowed us to keep our devotee clothing.

I scratched on the wall ‘Krishna’s devotees were here, chant Hare Krishna and be free’

Within an hour, food was pushed through a small opening at the bottom of the door, knowing our vegetarian diet, they presented us with boiled potatoes, peas, beans and pumpkin with an added written note from the prison cook, ‘blessed food’.

We put the food aside and refused to eat it, although Kurma eventually gave in and broke the fast that Madhudvisa Swami was not happy about.

In the meantime, back at the Temple, Cittahari and Sanaka Prabhus were getting phone calls from the media and were told that as long as we are in jail, we would protest by fasting.

The interested media was very supportive; also believing it was unjust to throw us in jail for something we strongly believed in, agreeing with Cittahari that there was no harm to anyone chanting Hare Krsna on the streets.

For the first time, our imprisonment attracted the attention of the public

The next day an article appeared on page three of the Melbourne Sun, a stand out page in all Newspapers with the heading ‘Two Hare Krishna devotee’s fast in Jail for their right to publicly glorify God’

In the meantime, at the jail, we were escorted down for breakfast, which turned out to be a little comical.

Radio talk back had been debating our plight and many prisoners had listened to this on the prison Radio, so, on seeing us, nearly all of them stood up in a tongue in cheek jester of respect, with some saying in a singing mood ‘Hare Hare Krishna Krishna’ with a few imitating our dancing.

Again, I refused to eat breakfast, and offered it to other prisoners with a quick ‘Hare Krsna’ offering before giving it to them.

The food hall full of prisoners then went into a roar with prisoners cheering, some again singing Krishna Krishna.

However, Madhudvisa Swami was annoyed at Kurma for breaking the fast knowing the media would eventually find out about it ending our media attention about fasting.

It maybe hard to believe with hardened criminals, but no one was rude to us or offended or threatened us while we were in prison.

Many letters to the Editors of major newspapers, along with talk back radio shows, had demanded we be allowed to freely practise our religion on the streets of Melbourne.

Also, there was a public outcry by Television Actors, Musicians and Artists, even a song written about our imprisonment by the famous musician Matt Taylor entitled ‘Krishna Loves You too’ that later went on his ‘Straight As A Die’ Album in 1973.

In this way, the Minister of Prisons, Brain Dixon was compelled to act; he had now personally taken an interest in our case.

He actually came to Pentridge with his secretary and spoke to us, then complained to the Prison Warden that these young boys should not be in this Jail. He immediately ordered our release.

Outside the Jail, there was a blissful kirtan lead by Madhudvisa Swami, and then the guards opened the gates and released us.

I clearly remember Cittahari Prabhu hugging us with tears of ecstasy running down his checks, his ecstatic emotion was very moving and also bought tears to my eyes.

This was only the very pioneering beginning of out struggle with the Melbourne City Council, that would go on for another three dreaded years. Melbourne was a very conservative City back then, tucked away ‘down under’ a long way away from the rest of the World.

Even though the Government Minister Brian Dixon and the majority of the public was on our side, many City Councillors were determined to ban us from the streets.

Keep in mind, back then in Australia in 1972, we still had in place the ‘white Australia policy’, which meant it was very difficult for anyone of colour to take up residency or citizenship here.

And here we were introducing Krsna Consciousness to the conservative Australian public!

When Srila Prabhupada eventually came to Melbourne a year later, the Minister of ‘Prisons and Housing and Sport’ Brian Dixon, came to see him and Srila Prabhupada thanked Mr. Dixon for releasing his Spiritual children from jail.

I remember that Srila Prabhupada preached to him and his lady friend very sturdily about the philosophy of Krsna Consciousness.

So eventually as the years passed, we did eventually win our struggle. The Council wrote off the money in an agreement that included us legally chanting on the streets.

To this very day, we have never been harassed since. Some years ago, the then Mayor of the Melbourne City Council would often have lunch at Gopals Restaurant that is directly across the road from the City Hall.

Also, one final note, many years later, in the mid 1980s, I ran into the Council Officer we humorously called Kamsa and ’square jaw’. He was with his son and had long ago retired.

He was very apologetic explaining that no one back then could work out how we all ticked. He then said he admired the many devotees who stood up for what they believed in, finishing our conversation by saying:

“My Son is a student at RMIT and often visits Gopals Restaurant, I don’t think I’m a bad person, I was just doing my job. You know, I did read some of those books we confiscated and also heard your Spiritual Leader speak at the Melbourne Town Hall.

It took me awhile to understand, but I now see his teaching are giving direction and understanding to so many young people today who follow his example.”

We shook hands, I said Hare Krsna and he replied ‘Hare Krsna’ The mercy of Lord Caitanya can deliver ANYONE, all we have to do is sincerely ask for His mercy.

The cartoon below appeared in the Sun Newspaper, Melbourne Australia’s biggest daily in 1972

Here are the words to Matt Taylor’s song ‘Krishna Loves You Too’ that was released as a single in 1973

“Things are getting bad when you can’t practise your religion, Walk through the streets, giving all the love you can to Krishna.

Elohim, God, or Allah, the name doesn’t matter,

Love is a commodity you can’t put a price on,

People who love life give to one another,

‘Cos God’s in me, God’s in you.

Yes, City Councillors, Krishna loves you too!

When you go to church on Sunday to hear a sermon

They pass round the plate, are you telling me it’s begging? Is God a one-day affair, the next day you don’t care?

Krsna people make the city streets a temple

What’s wrong with living your religion every second

If God’s in me, God’s in you?

Parking attendants, Krishna loves you too.

I remember Christians thrown to the lions,

Because their faith was seen as defiance.

But now I see Centurions in Blue, ain’t nothing new.

Religion’s not exempt when it comes to revolution

Each step along the way is plagued by persecution,

Still, God’s in me, God’s in you.

Mr Policeman, Krishna loves you too.

Salvation Army playing on the corner,

Turned-on our folks in another era, but now I see

God remains the same, forms of God have changed.

Now you’ve heard my story, just forget your fear,

And chant ‘Krishna’ every day

And your world will ’come clear

‘Cos God’s in me, God’s in you.

Yes, every human being, Krishna loves you too. Krishna, Krishna, shine your light on me…..)”

PHOTO - Sanak dasa and Gauragopala dasa and other devotees chanting on the Streets of Melbourne February 1972.***

The science of properly depending on Krsna (God) and how to maturely pray to Him.

Srila Prabhupada properly shows us here how to recognise Krsna's (God's) help and guidance.

Sadly many do not understand how to properly pray and then positively deal with illness and sickness in the best way.

For example, some believe nothing else can heal your material body except only the chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra, without doing anything else to also try to help yourself (see second story below), which is simply NOT true explained here-

In early February 1973 in Sydney Australia, Srila Prabhupada developed an infection on his finger from a paper cut while opening mail.

The infected finger got worse over a few days and eventually Prabhupada asked us to bring him a doctor who could give him penicillin.

We did this and a doctor came and gave him penicillin that healed his infected finger in a day.

However, one young "immature devotee" was confused. He saw that Prabhupada was always constantly chanting Hare Krsna, translating Srimad Bhagavatam's 3rd Canto and preaching to the devotees.

This young devotee could not understand why Krsna did not personally protect His pure devotee.

So this boy asked Prabhupada,

''You are always chanting Krsna's name, working late at night translating Sastra into English and preaching to the devotees, why didn't Krsna personally heal your finger that caused you so much discomfort?''

Srila Prabhupada smiled and answered the boy showing great faith in Lord Krsna,

''Oh yes Krsna was so kind He DID immediately help me, it was Krsna who sent the doctor who gave me the penicillin that healed my finger''.

The lesson here is, it's not that Krsna has to personally appear and wave some magic wand and heal his pure devotee.

No, it does not work that way, the fact is Krsna wants us to do everything we can to help ourselves, then He will give us what we lack as Bhagavad Gita As It Is tells us.

''God helps those who helps themselves''

Also remember we chant and hear Hare Krsna so we do not forget Him even when the material body does break down and ceases to function (death)

Actually the chanting of the Hare Krsna Maha-mantra is a constant petition to the Supreme Lord-

“O Krsna, O energy of Krsna, please ALWAYS engage me in Your service.”

The individual jiva-souls ultimately have nothing to do with the material bodily vessel they are in as a passenger.

We chant Hare Krsna to remember Krsna always, especially while we are in the process of leaving this decaying material body (during death)

We only temporarily occupy this temporary material body while in the material creation.

Therefore, the temporary material bodily vessel is it NOT who we really are as a spiritual living entity.

The fact is, the real home of the individual jiva-souls as their spiritual bodily perpetual Svarūpa form, who they are eternally, is in their original position in the Spiritual Planets of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

Understanding this is important to comprehend.

We also should not be like the foolish man on the roof during a flood who ignorantly prayed to Krsna (God) in the following sentimental way-

Once a man was stuck on his rooftop during a great flood and prayed to Krsna to be saved with the idea only Krsna's personal appearance would only be accepted.

Soon a man in a rowboat came by and shouted to the trapped man on the roof -

"Jump in, I can save you from this big flood!"

The stranded man shouted back,

"No, it's OK, I'm praying to Krsna and He alone is going to save me."

So the rowboat went away.

Then a motorboat came by and the man in the motorboat shouted out,

"Jump in my boat, I can save you, the flood is getting worse, I will save you from drowning."

To this the stranded man on the roof again declined the help and shouted back,

"No thanks, I'm praying to Krsna and He is going to save me personally, I have faith in my Lord He will do this."

So the motorboat went away too.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot also shouted down to the trapped man on the roof,

"Grab this rope I am throwing  down to you so I can lift you to safety."

To this the stranded man again replied,

"No thanks, I'm praying to Krsna and He is going to save me, I have faith that Krsna will only personally come and save me."

So the helicopter reluctantly flew away as well.

Soon the water rose high above the rooftop and the man drowned.

After the man left his material bodily vessel due to its death, he was taken to Yamaraj the Lord of death and discussed his situation with Yamaraj.

The jiva-soul that was in that material vessel said to Yamaraj the Lord of death-

"I had faith in Krsna but He didn't save me, He let me drown, I don't understand why!"

To this Yamaraj replied,

"Krsna DID answer your prayers, He sent you a rowboat, then a motorboat and then a helicopter, what more did you expect from Krsna!? 

Krsna tried to help you but you were so foolish you could not see that it was Krsna who was trying to help you all along!".

So the conclusion is, it is not that Krsna has to personally appear to save His devotee.

No, Krsna can come in many different ways, or send many different living entities and spiritual guides to help His devotees, as Prabhupada has clearly told us by his proper examples.

An example of ignorantly praying to God was recently in the news here in a country Town within a Western Christian pentecostal cult who did not believe in vaccines, hospitals or modern Western doctors.

Sadly, within their cult a young child was very, very sick and the leader of the cult called all the congregation to pray and chant around the boy to heal the child.

So this went on for a few days and other members of the cult came from other Towns to also pray around the child.

However, one member brought a friend along who just happened to be a doctor.

So eventually they arrived at the house and also started praying and chanting around the child, singing the glories of God to save the child.

Eventually after a few hours, the visitor, who just happened to be a doctor, noticed some symptoms from His training and took a closer look, the child was near death at this time.

To the doctors surprise, his diagnosis determined the child's Appendix had burst and demanded they call an Ambulance.

The determined cult leader refused saying that only faith by prayering to God can only heal the child and nothing else is needed.

The doctor strongly disagreed and then called the Police who came and forcefully removed the child and and arranged an Ambulance to take the boy to Hospital.

Thankfully the child was saved from Appendicitis, and also from the fanatical Christian religious cult, who foolishly believed God's personal presents could ONLY help the child.

He did not understand that God can ALSO work through many others as an answer to prayer.

Furthermore, the cult leader of the religious sect was jailed for 5 years for serious child neglect.

True story.

Hare Krsna - please practise Krsna Consciousness intelligently as Prabhupada shows by his example above.*.1

Srila Prabhupada - "When there is infectious disease a man is forbidden to go there. (Morning walk Nairobi 1st November 1975)

Devotee - "It was by chance that I got infected with cholera".

Srila Prabhupada - "No, no. Not chance. Why did you go where there is cholera case? That is your foolishness. Why did you go there? When there is infectious disease a man is forbidden to go there. You went there without any knowledge and you got infected. Now you are suffering. That’s all. There is no question of chance. That is foolishness. Chance means ignorance. Ignorant people, they do not know this. They perform sinful activities, and [when there is a karmic result] they say “by chance.” There is no question of chance. Krishna says, “Karanam? guna-sango ‘sya” – there is no chance. When there is infectious disease a man is forbidden to go there. (Morning walk Nairobi 1st November 1975)

Devotees of Krsna are on the front lines of preaching

Srila Prabhupada told us long ago we can take good instructions from anyone that describes the genuine devotees of Krsna 

“It is not the critic that counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or whether the doer of the deeds could of done them better. 

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievements, and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat”

"Sarva-gatah" means life is EVERYWHERE, therefore this means Visnu and the individual jiva-souls are also found in every atom.

Tamal Krsna – "But within each atom the living entity is present?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes God is present, therefore the living entity is present" (April 4th 1975 Mayapur morning walk)

The Paramatma (Visnu also known as Super Soul) and the jiva-soul is within every atom so there are jiva-souls EVERYWHERE.

Tamala Krsna - "Srila Prabhupada, someone asked a question the other day about the atom which I couldn't give the answer to. His question is that if we say that within the atom the living entity, the jiva-soul, is present, and life symptoms means six symptoms of birth, growth…"

Prabhupada - "That's all right. Their life symptoms has not yet come. But there is".

Jayadvaita - "Potential".

Prabhupada - "Yes".

Tamala Krsna - "His question was… It was sort of a dual question. At what time, or what…? Just like at the time of disintegration of this body, the living entity leaves this body and the body disintegrates, so does the atomic body also disintegrate when the living entity leaves it and moves to a higher body?"

Prabhupada - "Atomic body? Atomic body means material body. Unless you are free from this material body, the atomic body will go on with you. That means unless you are mukta, the atomic body will go on. Mind, intelligence, ego — they are also atomic, finer atomic body".

Tamala Krsna - "But within each atom the living entity is present?"

Prabhupada - "Yes. God is present; therefore living entity is present".

Tamala Krsna - "So the living entity is present within the atom just as I am present within this body. When I leave this body, my body breaks apart".

Prabhupada - "Yes, you leave this body, enter another body".

Tamala Krsna - "Right".

Prabhupada - "By nature's law".

Tamala Krsna - "And when I leave this body, the body breaks apart".

Prabhupada - "Eh?"

Tamala Krsna - "When I leave this body, the body dis…"

Prabhupada - "The body is already atomic combination".

Tamala Krsna - "Yes".

Prabhupada - "So it remains atomic combination. You leave the body".

Tamala Krsna - "Yes. It remains…"

Prabhupada - "You leave the house. That does not mean the house is finished".

Tamala Krsna - "Right, I can understand that".

Hamsaduta - "He's asking that if the soul leaves the atomic particle, then does the particle break apart. Isn't it?"

Prabhupada - "No, no. You have not left atomic particle".

Tamala Krsna - "No, but you, you're… I think you were saying that within the atom there's also a living entity. So when that living entity leaves the atomic particle does the particle break apart? Or doesn't it? I mean what…?"

Prabhupada - "Just try to understand. From the sastra, you understand that andantara-stham: "God lives within the atom."

Tamala Krsna - "Yes".

Prabhupada - "And when the God is there, living entity's also there. This… This much you try to understand. Because God and living entity, they remain together, as two friends. God is trying to save this fallen friend. That is the information from Upanisad. So when God is there, the living entity is also there".

Rupanuga - "So Paramatma and jivatma are always together".

Prabhupada - "Yes".

Tamala Krsna - "Can we say that the living entity is present within the atom by consciousness?"

Prabhupada - "Hm? No. Consciousness will gradually develop according to the bodily situation".

Pancadravida - "How does the jiva-soul get out of the atom and take a gross body?"

Prabhupada - "Hmm?"

Pancadravida - "How will that jiva…"

Prabhupada - "(laughing) Body is combination of atoms. How he gets out of the atom. Body is nothing but combination of many atoms. Everything material is combination of many atoms. That's all".

Pancadravida - "The jiva-soul inside the atom, are they like impersonalists who are in the Brahman?"

Prabhupada - "That you consider. He has not developed his consciousness. Practically, it is like dead". (Morning Walk, April 4, 1975, Mayapur)

Some may say that the individual soul or jiva-tattva is 10,000th the size of a tip of hair, so how could the jiva-soul be smaller than an atom?

Obviously the atom the modern scientists discribe is NOT the same atom Srimad Bhagavatam describes, where it says that six atoms together can be seen by the naked eye explained here-

Srila Prabhupada - "The division of gross time is calculated as follows: two atoms make one double atom, and three double atoms make one hexatom.

This hexatom is visible in the sunshine which enters through the holes of a window screen. 

One can clearly see that the hexatom goes up towards the sky.

The atom is described as an invisible particle, but when six such atoms combine together, they are called a trasareṇu, and this is visible in the sunshine pouring through the holes of a window screen". (Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3 Chapter 11 Text 5)

So by going by the above, the atom the modern scientists describe is NOT the same atom described in Srimad Bhagavatam.

This is because every scientist and scholar will agree, that six atoms according to modern science, CANNOT be seen visible in the sunshine pouring through the holes of a window screen.

An individual atom is 0.0000000004 metres across, while 0.04 mm is 0.00004 metres. So an element that is about 100,000 atoms in width would be just about big enough for a human eye to see it.

Seeing six atoms combined together as described in Canto 3 of Srimad Bhagavatam is impossible, these comments from Srimad Bhagavatam need further clarification.

From "Decoding Vedic Cosmology the Fifth Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam.^^

Srila Prabhupada - "Love cannot be one, or executed only by one, there MUST be two." (SB lecture Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

The science of learning how to achieve selfless pure devotional service.

To begin with, REAL love or service is ONLY fully possible at all times in the spiritual world with Krsna and Visnu.

And such loving exchanges can only be experienced in a "two-way" relationship of loving reciprocation emersed in heart felt devotion.

Love can NEVER exist in a "one-way" existence (dictatorship), there MUST always be two especially in the spiritual world.

Which means a respectful nurturing encouraging selfless relationship between two, between Krsna and His devotees. 

The jiva-souls always having the free will to voluntarily express their inner sentiment as an independent individual PERSON, in their own unique way.

The jiva-souls unique acts of self expression is the contribution each jiva-soul brings to the table and offers to Krsna, even suprising Him because such offerings are unique to each jiva-soul who never share their mind with Krsna. 

This means the jiva-souls always a their own unique personality that is ALWAYS separate from Krsna's Personality and absolute control.

Yes, Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes and not a blade of grass moves without first being sanctioned by Krsna.

But what a cold pointless impersonal existence it would if Krsna showed us that all is known by Him, past, present and future in our relationship with him.

There must be mystery and aur in all relationships that make it full of surprises, especially in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.  

"Freedom of expression" that every marginal living entity (jiva-soul), has as part and parcel of their eternal constitution.

Krsna and His associates (in many cases His own Visnu-tattva and Visnu-"sakti"-tattva expansions) and the marginal living entities (jiva-souls), are EQUALLY involved in loving voluntary exchanges based on reciprocation between each other.

In the beginning when Krsna wanted to experience love, He knew it was not possible with just one, so He divided Himself into two. 

This TWO is known as Srimati Radharani and Krsna, the Divine couple.

Thus love is only possible on a "two-way" street.

All the jiva-souls (individual marginal living entities) are independent living beings with their own unique personality that is separate from Krsna's Personality, yet simultaneously dependent on the energies of Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes.

However, the jiva-souls have their own freedom (free will) eternally also. 

This means the individual jiva-souls, as part of their constitutional make up, have the freedom to make their own choices, that even includes accepting OR rejecting Krsna if they choose.

This is also one of the reasons the material world exists, because by choosing to reject Krsna the rebellious jiva-soul can no longer stay in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana and then enter Maha-Visnu's material world. 

In other words, Krsna does NOT force the jiva-souls to love Him, stay with Him and just do only what He wants without personal contributions.

This is because love or service is NOT a "one-way" impersonal street of domination, tyranny, slavery and bullying.

The jiva-souls have the freedom to always voluntarily offer their own unique independent contributions or service that Krsna does not interfere with.

If Krsna forced the jiva-souls to only do what He thinks and wants, then that is NOT love, that is domination and exploitation.

Real love is based on "free will" and means each individual jiva-soul is able to make their own independent choices that may agree, or disagree with Krsna.

Genuine loving devotional service can only exist on a "two-way street," where one has the choice to accept or even reject Krsna.

Our relationship with Krsna is based on loving exchanges, it is a "two-way" street.

Love can only exist when it is based on a two-way exchange of mutual respect and NOT forced by one individual dictator, NOT even Krsna.

The living entities are NOT mindless drones in the spiritual world. No, Krsna does not allow such impersonalism into His abode.

If Krsna forced the jiva-souls to only think and do what He dictates, then loving exchanges could NEVER exist because love can only exist in a two-way exchange, and not a one way dictatorship.

The jiva-souls are eternal individuals with their own unique personality that is independent from Krsna's Personality in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

Krsna does not want relationships based on forced coercion, intimidation, fear tactics or bullying.

The jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna is unique and very personal, each jiva soul has a different personal exchange with Him unique to them.

Therefore REAL love or service can only exist in a "TWO-WAY" voluntary exchange based on reciprocation and mutual respect.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Therefore, Krsna NEVER forces the jiva-souls to surrender to Him, if He did, then that is NOT love, it is force, exploitation and abuse.

That impersonal version of Krsna Consciousness MUST be rejected Prabhupada explains.

Srila Prabhupada  - "In Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver." (Washington DC July 1976)

Srila Prabhupāda – "Unless there are "two-persons", where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

Ultimately each individual jiva soul is a unique PERSON with their own personality who can choose for themselves how to voluntarily serve Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, the best way they can, or ignore Him if they want.

As Prabhupada has explained, Krsna NEVER forces the jiva-soul to surrender to Him, never forces them to love Him, that MUST be voluntary otherwise love can NEVER exist unless there are voluntary reciprocal exchanges.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, personally. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture SBh Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - Their impersonalist philosophy is oneness. So how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant..." (Lecture SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)..*^*..