The mysterious origin of the soul

THE SECRET VEDIC BOOK OF ORIGINS REVEALED PART 2

Quantum physics or the science of possibilities explained on the highest level. The mysterious origin of the soul is now within our grasp of understanding. By Gauragopala dasa ACBSP 2006

To say we DID NOT come from Vaikuntha is to say we came from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or 'a clear sheet of consciousness' and Srila Prabhupada rejected that idea.

He has explained that this condition in the impersonal Brahmajyoti is already a fallen state, Srila Prabhupada further explains that originally we ALL have come down from Vaikuntha to the material creation many millions of years ago.

And then, out of frustration of trying to enjoy this temporary material existence, some of us have devolved even further to eventually fall into deeper illusion, with great difficulty, to that dormant motionless inactive conscious state known collectively as the impersonal Brahmajyoti (collectively because of all the billions of baddha-jivas vibrating dormantly there together)

It is these souls (baddha-jivas) who foolishly think this impersonal Brahmajyoti is our origin, having forgotten their real perpetual nitya-siddha body in Goloka that exists outside the limited realms of the material creation (mahat-tattva) and the impersonal Brahmajyoti or effulgence.

And it must be further added that, like the material creation, is also a temporary condition of the numerous baddha-jivas who idiotically strive to take shelter within the collective impersonal Brahmajyoti, which is spiritual suicide to a devotee of Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada - "There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha" New York lecture on Caitanya-Caritamrta, July 13, 1976

Srila Prabhupada – “Eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha)? We cannot be eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha), because we are part and parcel of Krishna. Our natural position is ever liberated, eternally liberated (nitya-siddha). (Bhagavad Gita as it is lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada – “Regarding your questions concerning the spirit soul’s falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krishna are more likely to fall into nescient activities.

Usually, anyone who has developed his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstances, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence.

But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name . . ." Letter to Jagadish, 4.25.70

Srila Prabhupada - “A living entity misuses his little independence when he wants to lord it over material nature. This misuse of independence, which is called Maya, is always available. Otherwise, there would not be independence. Independence implies that one can use it properly or improperly." Srimad Bhagavatam 3.31.15

Srila Prabhupada - "Pure love for Krsna is eternally established in the hearts of living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, the living entity naturally awakens." (CC. M. 22.107)

Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973

Now some have said, ‘Sometimes "Vaikuntha" means the impersonal Brahmajyoti characteristic of the spiritual sky, NOT necessarily "Vaikuntha-Loka." No that is not correct as the following explains -

Srila Prabhupada – "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport (Letter 1972 to devotee in Australia (To Madhudvisa Swami)

Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature. We can misuse such independence with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.

That choice is always there even in Goloka and must be there if genuine love is to exist. It is not that we first have to be contacted by the modes of material nature to fall down from Goloka or Vaikuntha.

It’s all to do with a combination of choice and the sheer smallness of the marginal living entity. An even then due to that smallness and choice, we only ‘think, imagine or dream’ we are fallen that we become fallen.

The following quotes overwhelmingly reveal that Srila Prabhupada has said we have come down from Vaikuntha however, most never again choose to make that foolish mistake, although on the other hand there is always the chance, due to free-will and the God (Krishna) given ability to choose, we can fall down and without that choice there can be no selfless love.

Srila Prabhupada - "After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world. There is possibility even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world." Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on July 4, 1974

Many do not understand the true facts of how we actually did come down from Goloka. And it's got nothing to do with sleeping on a bed in Goloka, as some foolishly believe. Their presentation of the ‘sleeping on a bed in Goloka’ philosophy and how the jiva falls from Goloka is absolute nonsense!!

The understanding of the word dream in regards to the marginal living entity falling from Goloka has nothing to do with sleeping anywhere; it’s all to do with time.

The proper understanding is this. It's all to do with the 'eternal presence' of the imperishable Vaikuntha's and Goloka compared to the 'past, present and future' of the perishable material creation of Maha-Vishnu.

The marginal living entity, due to free will and choice, falls out of synch with the 'eternal presence' of Goloka or Vaikuntha simply caused by their non-Krishna conscious mistaken desires.

Such selfish desires place the marginal living entity outside of Goloka as their nitya-baddha lower self that enters the mahat-tattva (material creation).

Now it is important to understand that while they are in the mahat-tattva, no time passes in Goloka-Vrndavana because of the 'eternal presence' of Krsna Consciousness there

.

In other words when the marginal living entity re-establishes again the memory of their nitya-siddha Krsna Conscious bodily identity in Goloka, it will appear as if NO time has passed whatsoever when once again the marginal living entity is in the shelter AS their nitya-siddha body within the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka-Vrndavana.

Dr. John Mize – “The question that bothers me in part is then why would the soul... Because I understand your conception that the soul is part of the spiritual sky originally or part of God, and it somehow falls out of this blissful condition due to pride, much like the Christian thesis that the devil fell out of heaven due to pride. And it seems puzzling why the soul would be so silly, so foolish, so insane, as to do such a thing”.

Srila Prabhupada – “That is his independence”.

Dr. John Mize – “Independence”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Instead of using independence properly, when he misuses independence he falls”.

Dr. John Mize – “I’m sorry, he what?”

Srila Prabhupada – “He falls down”.

Dr. John Mize – “He falls”.

Srila Prabhupada – “He falls down on account of his independence. Just like you have got independence. You are sitting here. You can go immediately. You may not like to hear me”.

Dr. John Mize – “I wouldn’t what?”

Srila Prabhupada – “You may not like to hear me”.

Dr. John Mize – “Yes”.

Srila Prabhupada – “That independence you have got. I have got also. I may not talk with you. So that independence is always there. Similarly, as part and parcel of God, the, it is the duty of the soul to be always engaged in the service of the Lord”.

Dr. John Mize – “Always engaged in...?”

Srila Prabhupada – “In the service of the Lord”.

Dr. John Mize – “Service of the Lord”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. Whatever I am ordering, it is immediately carrying out. I say, “Make it like this.” He will, it will do. So... But this is dead matter. It is acting mechanically. The brain directs immediately the finger and it acts, like machine. This whole body is just like a machine, but soul is not machine mechanical part. It is spiritual part.

So therefore, as I am directing the finger, as being machine, it is working, but if somebody else, a friend or servant, I may direct him to do something, he may not do it. So when the soul misuses the independence, then he falls down. That is material life.

Material life means misusing the independence of soul. Just like a son. A son’s duty is to obey the father. But he may not obey. That is his madness. So when the soul, misusing the independence, becomes mad, he is sent in this material world”.

Dr. John Mize – “It is puzzling to me that one would be so foolish”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Because by independence you can become foolish. Otherwise, there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do whatever you like. That is stated in the Bhagavad-Gita, that yathecchasi tathä kuru. Find out this verse in the Eighteenth Chapter.

That independence is there. After instructing the whole Bhagavad-Gita to Arjuna, Krishna gave him the independence, “Now whatever you like, you can do.”

Krishna never forced him to accept the teachings of Bhagavad-Gita. He gave him the independence, “Now whatever you like, you can do.” And he agreed. “Yes. Now my illusion is over, I shall act as You say.” The same independence. Yes”.

Dr. John Mize – “Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?”

Srila Prabhupada – “No, there are... Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down”.

Dr. John Mize – “So we’re among the 10%.

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. Or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are... Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down”.

Dr. John Mize – “Does Krishna know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Krishna? Yes, Krishna may know because He is omniscient”.

Dr. John Mize – “Are more souls falling all the time?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence... Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example:

Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be.

Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, “Where is the criminal? You are constructing...” Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency”.

 Dr. John Mize – “The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka) is...?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes”.

Dr. John Mize – “From where does that tendency come?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” (Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada – “Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport” Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia (To Madhudvisa Swami)

Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha Krsna Bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

Devotee – “Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back”.

 Srila Prabhupada – “No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, "Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man," I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become. . . .”

Bhaktijana – “Has my soul ever been liberated?”

Srila Prabhupada – “That you know. I do not know”.

Bhaktijana – “If I was once liberated...”

Srila Prabhupada – “You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this Maya. This is called Maya”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger”. Letter to Madhudvisa Swami 1972

It is important to understand that ALL marginal living entities ‘originally’ come from Goloka-Vrndavana and are ALWAYS in a perpetual state of uniqueness’ meaning we are forever fresh and youthful in our nitya-siddha body.

Such a spiritual body is ‘eternally’ endowed with a two-armed form like Krishna’s but can also appear as a four armed form in the Vaikunthas in the mood of servitude, or further appear as a flower, drop of rain, chair, etc regardless, the original form of the soul is two armed just like Krishna’s.

What makes things confusing to several is that some marginal living entities, who have manifested as their inferior secondary baddha-jiva state in the material creation, can stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva for what seems to be an almost eternity!

This means many baddha-jiva souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation because of not being Krishna Conscious to awaken to their true nitya-siddha body in Goloka.

In other words, this entrance into the dormant impersonal Brahmajyoti condition only happens if they are not qualified to again remember their ‘full potential awareness’ of being a nitya-siddha perpetual Krishna Conscious body in Goloka.

In this way, the baddha-jiva sub-conscious state starts off as a non-Krishna conscious selfishly active dream (or thought) condition originating from the marginal living entity in Goloka.

Therefore it is only the secondary or inferior baddha-jiva that is a formless state of consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules (All referring to the baddha-jiva and NOT the nitya-siddha body due to always being a Krishna Conscious bodily form).

This baddha-jiva condition can only experience selfish desires through material bodily vessel provided by Maha-Vishnu from within His mahat-tattva creation that clothes the secondary baddha-jiva state with subtle (ethereal) and gross (biological) material containers or bodily vessels of the mahat-tattva.

There are others also that a resemble fire and extreme cold. Sarva gatah - life is everywhere in the mahat-tattva and most, over 95%, we cannot see with our biological eyes and our scientific technological extensions like the Electron Microscope and the Humble Telescope.

Some have said that "falling down from Vaikuntha" means NOT necessarily "Vaikuntha-Loka planets of eternal loving service." Srila Prabhupada rejects that nonsense claim to his teachings and explains clearly we have foolishly come from Krishna’s Pastimes - (Lecture August 6, 1973) and further defeats this nonsense speculation by undoubtedly telling us –

Srila Prabhupada – "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila and sport" (Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia (To Madhudvisa Swami)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago."

Srila Prabhupada clearly teaches us - These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities". Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970  which he means, "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila" (Letter 1972 to Madhudvisa Swami)

Srila Prabhupada tells us we have come down from Vaikuntha-loka, actually Goloka-Vrndavana some millions of years ago and have not originated from this Prapanchika Vaikuntha.

We may have been to Prapanchika Vaikuntha but long, long, long before that we were with Krsna in His Vaikuntha-loka and Goloka-Vrndavana

To say we the marginal living entities came from 'a clear sheet of consciousness that is expanding and growing with new jivas, ' or from the impersonal dormant characteristic of the Brahmajyoti, is worse than the teachings of Mayavadi philosophy!

On many occasions Srila Prabhupada further elaborates on his wonderful purports in the association of his close disciples. I remember in Sydney he called devotees in to his room and preached to midnight, being the guard at the door, I heard these wonderful conversations. The main point to understand is that there is no difference between Prabhupada's books, lectures, morning walks and personal instructions, in fact why would there be? 

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha". Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970 Srila Prabhupada further explains this clearly -

Srila Prabhupada – "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila" (Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia (To Madhudvisa Swami)

And this -

"Due to the mundane association and the deliberations of mundane sensual objects, the jiva-soul has forgotten the real forms of the self, the bliss, divinity and that of Vaikuntha. As a result of which, the jivas are put into a delusion of imagining sense-pleasures and heavenly pleasures as the bliss.

They are also at delusion regarding their conception about the Supreme Lord and His Abode. They mistake the Vaikuntha as to be something like the mundane regions and also they misconstrue the Divine Body with the perishable bodies of the physical world thereby they mistake some or other abodes constituted by the earth, water, or any other similarly imagined abode as the Vaikuntha." Sri Tattva-Sutram on page 137 

And this -

When the marginal living entity first chooses to pursue their own self-centred desires and thus forgets his relationship with Krishna, he is immediately overwhelmed by the influence of Maya, in other words, one first chooses to ignore Krishna that simultaneously puts them in the realm of Maya or within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.

Srila Prabhupada is very clear. Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world (As nitya-siddha). But when we want to take Krsna’s position, Krsna puts us into a dreaming state (As nitya-baddha).

In this dreaming state we forget our actual position and are thus free to act out our desire to become the supreme enjoyer. This state of forgetfulness and dreaming is sometimes characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world.

But Srila Prabhupada explains that in reality we are not fallen. We are simply in a dreaming state. Srila Prabhupada says that this is a very important point and asks the devotees to carefully consider it.

This concept that we are not really fallen offers an explanation for the statements that “no one falls from Vaikuntha.” We do not fall. We simply forget our original relationship of service to Krsna. Some might argue that we have eternally forgotten Krsna. But that is not supported by Srila Prabhupada

And this -

"Service of Sri Krsna is the eternal nature of a Jiva. When he forgets this relationship he is overwhelmed by the influence of Maya—the deluding potency lying at the back-ground of the Lord.

Thenceforward a Jiva shows his backwardness in the service of the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna. Since the backward condition of a Jiva springs up along with his coming into this mayaik world, the history of his downfall within the bounds of time and space is out of the question.

Hence the significance of the expression ‘eternally backward.' His eternal function with the service of Sri Krsna has been perverted since his entrance into the plane of three dimensions due to his forgetfulness." (Jaiva Dharma, p. 10)

Srila Prabhupada – "This is factual evidence showing that it is possible at any time to fall down from the Lord's association. . . Once fallen and separated from the Supreme Personality of Godhead's association, one becomes a candidate for suffering in the material world." Cc. Madhya-lila 10.65, purport

Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” Original Hare Krsna album

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur - “However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha. . . material rasas are perverted reflections of the soul’s original spiritual rasas.” Prema-pradipa, p. 83

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975

Trivikrama asks Srila Prabhupada – “You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I read ...

Srila Prabhupada: “The same example. In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am ...thinking, “Oh, tiger is there - It is simply dreaming condition”.

Trivikrama: But so many Vaishnavas are praying...

Srila Prabhupada – “So as soon as you understand that “This is not... I am not in contact with tiger, it is all a dream,” then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand “All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious. If you keep in Krsna consciousness, that “I am eternal servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. . . .

Trivikrama: This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...

Srila Prabhupada - “That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Krsna’s service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of Maya. You see?” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975

In this lecture Srila Prabhupada is very clear. Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world (As nitya-siddha). But when we want to take Krsna’s position, we put ourselves into a dreaming state (As nitya-baddha) that can only exist in the mahat-tattva, the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Vishnu.

In this dreaming nitya-baddha condition we forget our actual position and are thus free to act out our desire to become the supreme enjoyer.

This state of forgetfulness and dreaming is characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world. But Srila Prabhupada explains that in reality we are not fallen. We are simply in a dreaming nitya-baddha state.

Srila Prabhupada says that this is a very important point and asks the devotees to carefully think about it.

This concept that we are not really fallen offers an explanation for the statements that “no one falls from Vaikuntha.” We do not fall. We simply forget our original nitya-siddha relationship of service to Krsna. Some might argue that we have eternally forgotten Krsna. But that is not supported by Srila Prabhupada’s purports