Tuesday, October 22, 2013

Could past, present and future exist simultaneously. How could this be?

Srila Prabhupada  - "Arjuna can see EVERYTHING that exists in any part of the universe. Kṛṣṇa gives him the power to see anything he wants to see, "past, present and future". Thus by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna is able to see EVERYTHING" BG 11.7 purport.

Could past, present and future exist simultaneously.

How could this be?

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 11.7

Translation

O Arjuna, whatever you wish to see, behold at once in this body of Mine! This universal form can show you whatever you now desire to see and whatever you may want to see in the future. Everything — moving and nonmoving — is here completely, in one place.

Purport

No one can see the entire universe while sitting in one place. Even the most advanced scientist cannot see what is going on in other parts of the universe.

But a devotee like Arjuna can see everything that exists in any part of the universe.

Kṛṣṇa gives him the power to see anything he wants to see, past, present and future.

Thus by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna is able to see EVERYTHING". End of purport.

The great sages and devotees in previous ages thousands of years ago were tri-kāla-jñā. Tri-kāla-jñā means they could understand, they could know what was in the past, what there shall be in the future, and what is at present.

Srila Prabhupada - ''So the point is that five thousand years ago the things which were written for this age, how they are coming to be true in our experience. That is the point: how they could see past, present, and future so nicely.

The sages were known as tri-kāla-jñā. Tri means three. There is almost similarity, tri and three. Tri is Sanskrit, and three is English or Latin, but there is similarity. Tri-kāla-jñā.

Tri means three, and kāla means time.

Time is experienced by three ways: past, present and future. Time limitation, past, present and future. Whenever you speak of time, it is past, present or future.

So the sages in those days were tri-kāla-jñā. Tri-kāla-jñā means they could understand, they could know what was in the past, what there shall be in the future, and what is at present.

Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says,

"My Dear Arjuna, you, Me, I, and all these kings and soldiers who have assembled in this battlefield, they were all individuals, and we are still individual. And in this past, in the future, we shall all remain individuals."

That past, present, and future, he explained.

Another place Kṛṣṇa says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). Atītāni, atītāni means past. Vartamānāni ca, "and present." So that is yogic power.

One CAN know past, present, and future''. SB 12.2.1 -- San Francisco, March 18, 1968 (End of class lecture).

There is still a lot more to learn about the movement of the marginal living entity through space and time in the material creation, we have only scratched the surface in understanding Vedic texts in the 50 years since Srila Prabhupada made his valuable contribution to the Western World.

The movement of time is eternal while this material universe exists.

And all material vessels or bodily containers are part and parcel of the material time and space, we are simply the passengers riding on/in this material energy/bodies.

The individual living entities or jivas exists in those vessels given to them by Maha Vishnu according to selfish desires and the reactions to past pious and impious actions in a previous material body.

But does past, present and future in the material creation all exist simultaneously?

Why would this be so?

Because of the material desires of the individual marginal living entity would eventually repeat themselves over eternity.

There is no harm in philosophical speculation as long as we do not deviate from sastra, how else are we to learn?

Many have asked, "could the past activities of Arjuna still be happening today somewhere in the universe with another jiva playing that part?"

Due to the past, present and future happening simultaneously, well could his bodily vessel also be a 'post' like Brahmas?

Meaning only those individual marginal living entities that are qualified can also experience their relationship with Krishna while in that vessel as Arjuna.

If this is true, the material universes are also repeating themselves except with a different batch of individual jiva souls possessing the material bodily vessels in each repetition or reoccurrence of the material universe.

Spiritual energy is made up of individual souls, spiritual energy is NOT all one.

However, material energy that makes up all material bodily vessels or containers is all one. For example when the material body we are in wears out and decays, it breaks down and merges back into the material elements or the earth around us.

Only the soul never decays and eternally remains an individual person.

Could the material universes concept of time of past, present and future exists all at the same time?

This means that all material bodily vessels, like yours and mine, are a permanent fixture of the particular material universe it is in and is eternally repeating itself as it goes through its temporary phases of existence in this impermanent universe.

Srila Prabhupada always encouraged us to have personal realizations and yes this one is more thought provoking that even Einstein believed was possible.

Keep in mind, the 'dreams' of Maha Vishnu are mind boggling and if Arjuna could view past, present and future simultaneously, maybe it all does exist together as he saw it.

I have not found anything on this subject to verify or deny these realizations but this would also mean time travel is possible because the past and future already exist however, it would impossible to change the past or future as it is fixed.

One is just traveling through what is already there, what already exists like traveling on a road that already exists.

Another example is just like when one rewinds a video tape, the contends captured will always be the same at every stage on the tape.

Similarly, there are some who believe that the body we are now in is like a 'post', meaning time and space itself is recorded on the eternal level in the material universe and we can take our next birth in a bodily vessel that has already existed in past time, present time or future time.

That means when we choose a bodily vessel, the pathway of that body is already existing in another time zone because each material body is a permanent fixture of this material universe known as the Maha-tattva.

What I am trying to say here is all the 'dreams' of Maha Vishnu are all happening 'now' which means past, present and future exist simultaneously and we can move into any bodily vessel that exists in the past, present or the future.

The material energy is all one but NOT the life force that is individual units as Prabhupada has taught us.

This is important to understand as there are many impersonalists who believe there is one all pervasive life force that moves through all material bodily species.

Their ideas are wrong and these ideas has nothing to do with such impersonalism.

In the material creation everything already exists like a long roadway already exists.

Similarly the pathway or roadway of the material bodily vessels, gross or subtle, that we possess, like the roadway, is already carved out and we are simply passengers on that roadway in that bodily vessel container for its journey.

In other words, one who worships the rich and famous can take birth in the material body they worship after being trained up to be qualified to take that birth which in itself would take many, many, many births just for the opportunity to be famous for one insignificant life time.

What a ignorant selfish waste of time.

If those souls in those material vessels knew what they had to go through to attain that famous bodily materialistic existence, they would have second thoughts about seeking material fame and wealth on this planet or the heavenly planets.

Just like one can take the 'post' of Lord Brahma if they are qualified.

So could all materials vessels be 'posts like Brahmas?'

Yes I believe so.

Usually the most pious living entity in this material universe can take up the post of Lord Brahma when the next universe manifeasts.

In the same way; we all take a material bodily vessel according to our pious and impious activities or karma.

All individual living entities perceive time as a chain of events moving through past, present and future.

However, from above, like a journey on a road where one sees the beginning of one's journey to the end, could mean "materially" that all past, present and future exist together like every point on the journey of a roadway does.

Conclusion

The concept in the above essay is suggesting all material pathways repeatedly exist for others souls to also traverse.

What is said above in essay is all material bodily vessels or containers we are in are the property of Maha Vishnu.

In Maha Vishnu's dreams, every senerio conceivable is ALREADY existing past, present and future.

Maha Vishnu's dreams are similar to a "costume shop" full of many different costumes (realities) one can choose to enter.

Every soul who enters the material creation must go this so called costume shop (the dreams of the sleeping Maha Vishnu) and be offered a particular material body according to their desires for enter into the material creation.

Maha Vishnu owns all such material vessels that are part and parcel with everything else in the material creation He id dreaming.

Therefore, those who have chosen to enter the material creation, must go to Maha Vishnu's dreams and be given a material body from His dreaming the material creation.

It is these material bodies (from Maha Vishnu's dreams) all souls in other universes also must choose from just like one chooses costumes from a Fancy dress store.

Regarding eternal associates of Krishna like Arjuna.

The fact is Arjuna is with Krishna in innumerable different material universes at one time and there  is only one spirit soul who is Arjuna.

The spirit soul therefore of a surrendered soul to Krishna can expand himself into many different material bodies and be justvthe one soul.

Yes this is very true as sastra tells us.

The fact is the spirit soul in Arjuna's material body is the same Arjuna in all the different universes.

This is achieved because the one jivatma (Arjuna) expands himself into many different material bodily vessels or containers (bodies) that are all also him, "just one soul".

But this is NOT the case with every material bodily vessel in the material creation!

It is only some rare eternal associates of Krishna.

This is NOT the case with the different Lord Brahmas where each one in their universe universes is a "different jivatma" and not one jivatma.

So in every Lord Brahma there is a "different soul" every time a new material universe is created.

All Brahmas are NOT the same "one soul" There are millions of different souls who become a Brahma.







1 comment:

  1. Trying to figure out what's going on?

    Ultimately we are eternal servants of Krishna Lord the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes.

    What does the implication of foolishly coming to this mundane material crestion mean?

    A yogi at Rishikesh told me that we have all been here for so long that we once long long ago in another time, occupied material bodies around us because time and space is not fixed in one flowing direction.

    Like the lotus flower Brahma sits on, each petal represents it own movement of time.

    Ultimately this means past, present and future all exist at the same time.

    This further means at death of the gross material vessel, the subtle body carrying the soul does not only move forward, one can take birth back in 1938 or 1974 or anytime in the future.

    Time does NOT flow in one direction just forward, no it flows in ALL directions past, present and future in different dimensions simultaneously.

    The implications relate to the material body ONLY, not the individual soul.

    We are all individual spiritual beings originally Krishna Conscious servants of the Lord.

    This only relates to the outward "material bodies" which are the projected material mundane dreams of the individual soul (jivatma) when ignoring Krishna

    And we are given all material facilities while in the material creation by Maha Vishnu as He sleeps and dreams the entire material creation of of billions of Brahmanda universe.

    We simply get all material bodies and fascilities from Maha Vishnu.

    The spiritual person or jivatma is ALWAYS an individual however, the material energy is what is really all one.

    And yes, with the right qualifications and being trained up by material nature for many births to acquire the ksrma, you can experience of material life of ANY of those material bodies throughout history.

    Scary because that means Stalin, Hitler and the Walrus.

    This is how the impersonal material energy works, it is all moved by the desires of the individual jivatma trapped in this bizarre material creation and it's unlimited material bodily containers it offers.

    Think about it.

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