Saturday, August 29, 2020

No jiva-souls originate from Maha-Visnu, the impersonal Brahman or tatastha-sakti as some scholars, pundits and impersonalists foolishly believe.

All the above are already a fallen "conditional state" of the rebellious jiva-soul in the material world, or the Impersonal brahmajyoti. 

Tatastha-sakti refers only to those marginal living entities (jiva-souls) who are already in a fallen condition in the temporary material creation.

Tatastha-sakti also includes those jiva-souls who have become further frustrated by the temporary nature of material existence and the suffering of experiencing repeated birth and death.

This causes the conditioned jiva-souls to attempt to end their individual existence (extinguish their individuality) and enter a "dormant" (inactive) state of consciousness called the impersonal Brahmajyoti.

In other words, tatastha-sakti is a fallen designation and does NOT describe the jiva-souls in their original "none-fallen" position in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

Tatastha-sakti is a name describing the none Krsna conscious condition of the fallen jiva-souls.

Srila Prabhupada - "So this temporary material world is the taṭastha (materially conditioned) characteristics, and the spiritual world is the permanent (personal) characteristics. So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (materially conditioned) characteristics and enter the permanent (personal)  characteristics. That is called spiritual elevation." (Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.354-358, New York City, Dec 28, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "Because the individual soul is apt to fall down sometimes under the clutches of māyā, it is called taṭastha-śakti. Just like in the seaside the shore, the beach, sometimes you see it is covered by water and sometimes it is land. Similarly, when we are covered by māyā, that is our jīva-bhūta stage (which means struggling under the laws of material nature), and when there is no more material covering, that is brahma-bhūta stage (realizing you are the jiva-soul above material influence)  When we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we are brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), and when we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we are materially conscious (jiva-bhuta), that is māyā." (Lecture on BG 7.4-5 - Bombay, March 30, 1971)

The marginal living entities or jiva-souls are not called tatastha-sakti in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana as Prabhupada explains above because the word tatastha-sakti is a "conditioned" designation. 

In Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana the jiva-souls are NOT in the conditioned state and therefore NOT called tatastha-sakti.

Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, who is the origin of all Narayana/Visnu forms of the Lord residing on the many perpetual Vaikuntha planets.

Maha-Visnu expands as Garbhodakashayi Visnu and from Him Brahma is born who creates and manages this temporary decaying material universe. 

There are unlimited material universes known as Brahmandas, each with their own Garbhodakashayi Visnu and Brahma however, there is only one Maha-Visnu in the entire material creation but unlimited Garbhodakashayi Visnus and Lord Brahmas.

Each "secondary material universe," found deep inside their surrounding Brahmanda universal shell, is managed by their Brahma who builds the planetary systems. 

Our Lord Brahma builds 14 different planetary systems in our universe, while in other secondary universes inside their Brahmanda, Lord Brahma build's many more planetary systems.

Krsna, via Maha-Visnu, also expands Himself as Paramatma or Supersoul who accompanies every individual jiva-soul who chooses to enter these multiple material Brahmanda universes. 

In the material world each jiva-soul is housed in a material bodily vessel originally created by the dreaming Maha-Visnu and "hired" from Him.

Maha-Visnu creates the material facilities and material bodily vessels the jiva-soul's possess in the material world according to their desires.

No jiva-soul originates from Maha-Visnu, the impersonal Brahman or tatastha-sakti as some scholars and devotees wrongly believe.

All are fallen conditional states of the jiva-soul in the material world, or the Impersonal brahmajyoti. 

Both the material creation and the impersonal Brahman or Brahmajyoti, are places the jiva-souls falls too from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, or choose to enter.

The jiva-souls do not originate from an already fallen condition like the impersonal Brahmajyoti.

Revatīnandana - "Srila Prabhupāda you very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and I go to the brahmajyoti I'm still fallen."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Revatīnandana - "That means all jīva-souls there in the impersonal Brahman (Brahmajyoti) are also fallen souls?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition (Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha). The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness.'' (Letter to Revatinandana, LA 13 June, 1970 and 1971 London)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG, Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (The Happening record album New York City USA Dec 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada - "The actual constitutional position of every living entity (jiva-soul) is nitya-siddha." (CC, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them home. It is a difficult task." (New York City lecture on CC, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice, yes, Kṛṣṇa says, yes, you can go, otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, all right, you enjoy like this. It is free will." (Morning Walk Cheviot Hills May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body." (Germany, June 22, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago. Anadi karama-phale. Anadi means before the creation. The real desire is how to go to home, back to Godhead."(Lecture on BG, London, Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "We may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment, so even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that, "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down." (Lecture in Honolulu, July 4, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force.” (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is "free will". He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions Srila Prabhupada about Rene Descartes)

Bali Mardana - "An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that an example of free will?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa."(Morning Walk, Jan 22, 1974, Hawaii)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

The individual jiva-souls are independent separate living entities in the spiritual world who have their own unique personality and sense of self that is separate from Krsna's Personality, yet simultaneously dependent on Krsna as His eternal parts and parcels.

The reason why Krsna gives the jiva-souls their independence and "free will" is so they can voluntarily choose for themselves how to serve Him and contribute to the relationship in their own unique personal way.

This means the jiva-souls can always contribute their own unique offerings without any pressure or force from Krsna.

Real love or service can only exist when "free will" allows the jiva-souls to voluntarily participate in loving devotional exchanges and contribute to the relationship with Krsna and therefore expanding it.

Surrender to Krsna in the spiritual world does not mean giving up your free will and allowing Krsna to control your every actions, deeds, words and thoughts.

No, the jiva-souls in the spiritual world are NOT programmed mindless drones who only obey and never contribute to the relationship with Krsna in their own unique way by thinking for themselves the different ways to serve Krsna.

Only by having free will can genuine loving exchanges and reciprocation take place, and without free will the jiva-soul is no better than dead stone Prabhupada has warned us.

Krsna NEVER interferes with the "free will" of the jiva-souls because if He did and never allowed them to have their "freedom of expression" to make their own choices in the spiritual world, then that also would mean loving exchanges and voluntarily participation and reciprocating with Krsna would never exist.

If the jiva-souls are forced to worship God (Krsna or Visnu) then that is NOT loving voluntary exchanges personalism is based on, it is loveless emotionless impersonalism.

This "impersonal" version of Krsna's abode in Goloka-Vrindavana or on the Vaikuntha planets mentioned above, where the jiva-souls are forced to surrender (abandon) their "free will" to Krsna, and then let Him take over their individual existence by doing all their thinking for them, as many nonsense sangas (religious cults) propagate, is dangerous IMPERSONALISM.

Srila Prabhupada - "Their impersonalist philosophy is "oneness." So how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant..." (Lecture on SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, personally. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture on SB, Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupāda – "Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

Having "free will" allows the jiva-souls to be the individual independent PERSON they are eternally in God's perpetual Kingdom, where they always choose to voluntarily contribute their own personal unique offerings to Krsna.

This is the real Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha planets which is the permanent eternal home of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls).

Srila Prabhupada - "So if by free will you choose to surrender to Krsna then you’ll get your real free will, real freedom, otherwise you are under the clutches of maya." (Morning Walk – 14 July 14, 1975, Philadelphia)

The jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana are forever voluntarily expanding the expression of their unique individuality with an increasing variety of personal devotional offerings based on free will, it is NEVER a nonsense one-sided master/slave mindless impersonal relationship with Krsna as Prabhupada explains.

Srila Prabhupada – "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)×××






























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