The proper understanding of "SURRENDER" and "FREE WILL is NOT correctly understood and realized in both ISKCON and the Gaudiya Math.
Proper understanding in both ISKCON and the Gaudiya Math Sangas in these early Western World pioneering immature years.
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
These comments by Srila Prabhupada, very few properly understand.
Most foolishly believe to enter Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, one must extinguish or surrender their free will "and become little Krishnas" LOL and just allow Krishna to completely control your every actions and thoughts.
Sadly most of these fool so called devotees do not even care to stop this nonsense impersonalism self denial and childish imitation.
This is because they enjoy having "mindless yes men and women" around them that these fools do the thinking for, and who just obey without question!
To these impersonalists in the dress of Vaishnavas, this blind mindless obedience is the meaning of surrender.
Many devotees today have absolutely no idea what "free will" really is or means, or what "surrender" really means including many naive arrogent gurus and sannyasis.
Sadly their ignorance and fanaticism is stagnating the advancement of ISKCON's Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's great Sankirtan Movement.
Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krishna give us free will if He knew we would miss use it in the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life". (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Free will is something never acquired, nor ever given up in the Spiritual World as these ignorant fools believe, FREE WILL is eternally part and parcel of the jiva souls (marginal living entities) natural constitution and therefore ALWAYS exists in the Spiritual Planets.
However, free will in its full potential, is ONLY fully experienced in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan, which is the jiva souls original perpetual home.
Only in the material creation is free will completely covered over restricted and suppressed by material nature and karma.
Losing one's free will (only covered over and never really lost) therefore is only experienced if the jiva soul foolishly chooses to enter the darkness of the material creation and be confined to temporary material bodily containers.
Therefore the jiva souls full Spiritual potential of being a free individual in the Spiritual world serving Krishna, is mostly lost if they choose to enter the material creation.
All jiva souls originally HAVE free will as part of their perpetual constitution make up, but can be forgotten (not ever lost) if they choose to enter the material creation.
Therefore in the material creation, the jiva souls original expression of freedom (free will) becomes covered over, suppressed and forgotten and must be AGAIN revived so the jiva soul is reinstated to their original spiritual position.
This revival is only possible by the process of Krishna Consciousness under the guidance of a bonafide Spiritual Master.
Devotee – "In Srimad Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?” Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?”
Srila Prabhupada - “That means YOU lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C).
Acyutananda - ''So what made the soul take birth in the first place, what is the cause of the first birth in the material world?''.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes that is stated in the Prema-vivarta -"We are eternal servant of Krsna. As soon as we want to become master, that is the beginning of our first birth in the material world".
We have got independence. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva bhutah—we are part and parcel of Krsna—so Krsna has got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we have got minute independence.
Our business is to serve Krsna, but as soon as we choose to give up this idea and want to become master, then that is the beginning of our material birth''. (Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.2--Hyderabad, April 11, 1975)
Acyutananda - ''But in the Gita, it says once returning back home, back to Godhead he never again goes to the material as world."
Srila Prabhupada - ''But if he likes, he can return''.
Acyutananda - ''He can return?''
Srila Prabhupada - ''That independence has to be accepted, we can misuse that and is the cause of our falldown''. (Morning Walk, February 19, 1976, Mayapur)
The jiva souls in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana therefore are forever expanding their sense of individuality with personal offerings based on selfless loving reciprocation with Krishna, it is NEVER a one sided master/slave relationship with the Lord.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Real love or Bhakti is reciprocal, as said above, it is NEVER a one way street where surrender to Krishna takes away one's sense of self, individuality and personal contributions.
This is important to understand because each individual jiva-soul has their own independent personality, sense of self and unique characteristics that THEY only individually have, that is part and parcel of each individual marginal living entities make up as the independent eternal "person" they are.
Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. "So God does not interfere with your little independence”. (Conversation in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples)
The jiva-soul in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, NEVER lose their free will, which means their own individual ability of self expression when choosing to offer their own personal contributions that are unique to each individual jiva-soul.
Each jiva-soul in their full natural spiritual potential in the Spiritual Worlds of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, have this eternal marginal quality of free will as already emphasised.
The fact is, Krishna actually NEVER gave the individual marginal living entities (jiva-tattva souls) free will BECAUSE the jiva-tattva souls HAVE ALWAYS HAD FREE WILL as part of their perpetual constitutional make up!
Just like Krishna NEVER created the marginal living entities or jiva souls because they have ALWAYS existed without having any beginning or will never cease to be.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 Text 20 explains -
''For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain''.
Srila Prabhupada – There is no “ NEW” soul. “New'’ and “old'’ are due to this material body, but the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be new soul?''. (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)
Therefore like Krishna, the individual jiva-souls are beginningless and endless and are always perpetually together like the Sun and the sun rays are also inseparable.
Therefore there is no beginning point where "free will" began because it is eternal.
We must all try to understand that love can ONLY exist in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana the Spiritual World when there is free will Prabhupada told us all those years ago.
Srila Prabhupāda - ''Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, there is exchange. Giving something, taking something, feeding something and to eat something, and speaking everything, no secrecy, and to know everything of the other person. When these things are transacted, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there". (Evening Darsana, August 9, 1976, Tehran)
With such selfless emotions of loving devotion, the jiva-soul NEVER loses their free will, which means their own individual ability of self expression, when choosing to offer their own personal contributions that are unique to each individual souls (jiva-tattva)
Each jiva-soul has this eternal marginal quality, which is part and parcel of there perpetual make up or constitution as being the marginal living entity or jiva-tattva-soul they eternally are.
In this way, each of the jiva-soul's have their own individual sense of self, character and personality and being a unique one of a kind in the Spiritual Sky, unlike any other jiva-soul.
Again it is important to understand that no two jiva-souls are the same.
This eternally existing spiritual social code, that includes free will and an independent personal sense of individual self, make up the character and personality of each jiva soul that is without any beginning or ending point, and is part and parcel of every marginal living entities (jiva-souls) eternal constitution.
This allows the jiva-soul to personally always be aware that they are a unique individual independent person while serving Krishna, being different from all other living entities in the Spiritual Sky.
Free will means, it is the jiva soul's choice of how to they want "surrender" and serve Krishna, or even NOT surrender if they choose.
However, the fact is, more than 90% of jiva souls NEVER choose to foolishly enter the material creation.
Only less than 10% foolishly choose to enter the material creation Prabhupada tells us.
It is also their choice of what THEY want to offer and contribute to the Lord in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan, which is the very best from their personal unique abilities and talents they voluntarily choose to selflessly offer to Krishna in the Spiritual World.***
The promise Krishna makes, that one will never again fall down to the material creation once they have returned to the Spiritual World, is from Krishna's side, it is His promise.
ReplyDeleteDoes this mean the jiva can NEVER choose to leave Krishna again "even if they want to?"
This idea that once reaching Vaikuntha one will never again falls down is true for most souls however, not all, therefore those devotees who say that, no matter who they are, are wrong, souls DO fall from both Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana if they choose.
And Prabhupada puts the figure of those who choose to leave Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana at less than 10%
Ultimately, love is not a one way street, it is based on reciprocation.
Therefore, we must NOT forget the jivatma's side too, the jivatma must ALSO have THEIR choice and say as well, and agree from THEIR side also.
This is because love is a reciprocation, a two way street and NOT just up to Krishna, not even He can ever force His will on the jiva.
And if He did, then how can their be genuine love as Prabhupada explains.
Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada, why did God give us free will if He knew we would fall down in the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone. That is not life". (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Srila Prabhupada - ”So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down.
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?
Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”
Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
For love to truly exist with the jiva-tattva (jivatma or jiva-tattva soul) MUST have free will in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, the Kingdoms of God ALWAYS, therefore returning there is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains here.
ReplyDeleteSyamasundara - "But can we predict that the process (returning back home back to Godhead) will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, but some come back''
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time".
Syamasundara - "And some come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. Otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."
Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "When a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again if he wants, however, the general law is NOT to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again". (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)
Many aspiring devotees, religious leaders, seekers of REAL truth and modern day gurus have absolutely no idea what "free will" and "surrender" really means.
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
Sadly some foolishly believe to enter Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, one must extinguish their "free will" under the heading of ''surrender'' and allow Krishna to completely control your every actions and thoughts.
In other words, you become "little Krishna mindless drone imitators" running around Vrindavana who are always told what to do, when to do, and never allowed to think for yourself.
Such a hellish nightmare version of God's Kingdom is nonsense impersonalism because one is destroying their individual unique ''personality'' and independent sense of self by being that "mindless yes man or women drone".
In true Spiritual reality, the jiva soul is endowed with ''free will'' in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, where the jiva soul voluntarily contributes in a reciprocal relationship with Krishna as the PERSON they eternally are.
These impersonalist fools do not even care to stop this nonsense self denial and ''childish imitation'' of trying to be little Krishnas, instead of being the unique independent (yet dependent on Krishna) contributing servant they eternally are.
Real love is always a two-way street based on individual thoughtful loving exchanges and reciprocation. Being Krishna's mindless drone or slave in the name of being His servant is NOT the meaning of surrender or having loving selfless exchanges.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Real love or Bhakti is reciprocal, as said above, it is NEVER a one way street where surrender to Krishna takes away one's sense of self, individuality and personal contributions.
This is important to understand because each individual jiva-soul has their own independent personality, sense of self and unique personality and characteristics that THEY only have, that is part and parcel of each individual marginal living entities make up as the independent unique "person" they are eternally.