Krsna makes the promise in Bhagavad Gita As It Is that once returning back home back to Godhead, the jiva-souls will NEVER again fall down to the material creation.
Is that true? No according to Srila Prabhupāda.
So how do we correctly understand this text in Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 8 Text 15?-
"After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogīs in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection".
Even though Krsna has said above there is no return, the fact is the jiva-souls CAN ignore Kṛṣṇa's promise and AGAIN return to the material creation if they choose to do so Prabhupada has also told us.
Therefore it is the jiva-soul's choice too if they stay or go, and NOT necessarily determined by Krsna's promise in Bhagavad Gita.
In fact having free will includes choosing to ignore Krsna's promise if they want to as Prabhupada explains here -
Acyutananda – “In the Bhagavad Gita, it says, “Once coming to the Spiritual World, he never returns to the material creation. He can return?”
Srila Prabhupada – “If he likes he can return”.
Guru-kripa – “How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?”
Srila Prabhupada – “You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God. God has got full independence, but you have got independence too, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”. (Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976)
Syamasundara - "But can we predict returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison house yet some end up back there?''
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no such thing as permanent because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you CAN misuse your independence at any time".
Syamasundara - "And some come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. Otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."
Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he CAN fall again if he wants, that choice is always there.
That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean it is permanent because he can again come back however, the general law is NOT to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of having independence and free will?
Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again". (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)
Srila Prabhupada - ''So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural.
A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could become the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion.
You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking”.
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krsna protect us from that desire?
Srila Prabhupada - “He is protecting you. He says, “You rascal, don’t misuse your free will. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"
Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me." Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love?
So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening.
Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Paramahamsa - “But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return?
Srila Prabhupada - “There IS return, that is voluntary. Return is there”.
Paramahamsa - “If we want”.
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.
Paramahamsa - “So we can come to the spiritual world and return?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.
Paramahamsa - “Fall down?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go and enjoy the material world, otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will.
And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will.
Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that."
Paramahamsa - ''So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these material bodies; and our desire to achieve Krsna brings us to our natural position''.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)
Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.”
Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…”
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire.
Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. You forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk and suffer. What can be done?
So because you are son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence.
If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy”. (Lecture Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - ''Because you are son of God you have got independence, so God does not interfere with your little independence.
If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently'', God says, “All right, you can go and enjoy”. (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."
Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly".
Srila Prabhupada -"Yes", but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals.
Why? Because of misuse of free will. Unless there IS also misuse of free will there is no question of free will. (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)
Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force.” (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
No comments:
Post a Comment
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.