Thursday, January 27, 2022

Many scholars, historians and Vaiṣṇavas have still not properly understood the eternal position of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) as being Krsna's eternal servant in their ORIGINAL home of Goloka Vrindavana or Vaikuntha.

Of course taking birth in the temporary mundane material creation is achieved by choosing to leave our real perpetual home in the Spiritual World.

The individual jiva-soul (jiva-tattva) NEVER originated from an "inactive" clear sheet of "dormant" consciousness, meaning they NEVER originated from an impersonal origin in the Brahman or Brahmajyoti effulgence.

Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha (The Kingdoms of God) are the original home of ALL living entities where there is NO repeated birth and death, decay or impermanence. 

This is because the individual jiva-souls do NOT occupy a material bodily vessel in the Spiritual Worlds that is always in a constant state of decay and in need of round the clock maintenance in the material creation.

The fact is, the individual jiva-souls (marginal living entities) were NEVER created and will NEVER cease to be, they have ALWAYS existed as Bhagavad-Gita As It Is tells us!

Chapter 2 Text 20 it states- 

"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain". (BG Chapter 2 Text 20)

Also just like the Sun-disc and the sun-rays cannot exist without each other, similarly Krsna and the jiva-souls cannot exist without each other. "Nectar of Devotion" tells us. 

An important point said above is the "jiva-souls" were NEVER born or NEVER created, nor will they ever die.

Only the material bodily vessel they are in decays, wears out and eventually ceases to function forcing the jiva-soul to take another material body while in the material creation.

The individual jiva-souls are the passengers temporarily occuping the temporary material body and have ALWAYS existed.

This also means the jiva-souls never came from some nonsense "inactive clear sheet of consciousness" that impersonalist preach.

The individual jiva-souls were NEVER created because they have ALWAYS existed.

Srila Prabhupada – "There is no NEW soul. New and old are due to this material body, the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?'' (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970).

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are also known in both the material creation and the impersonal Brahmajyoti as tatastha sakti but NOT in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana Prabhupada explains here.

Srila Prabhupada - "So this material world is the taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics, and the Spiritual Worlds are the Personal (Vaikuntha) characteristics" (New York, December 28, 1966)

Revatīnandana - "Srila Prabhupāda you very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and I go to the brahmajyoti I'm still fallen".

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes".

Revatīnandana - "That means all jīva-souls there are also fallen souls?".

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness". (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970 and conversation August 17, 1971, London)

In the jiva-souls "original position", they have the same bodily features like Krsna, 

sat,

cit,

ananda,

vigraha. 

Which means-

eternity, 

knowledge, 

bliss,

Bodily FORM.

The jiva-souls did NOT originate from any impersonal or dormant bodiless state in the Brahmajyoti.

The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities is having a two armed bodily form like Krsna's Body.

Devotee – “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs”.

Hari-sauri – “How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?”

Srila Prabhupada – “[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul”.

Hari-sauri - “They are covered in the spiritual world?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact". (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975)

Krsna NEVER interferes with the jiva-soul's "free will", even when they choose to reject Him.

Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force.” (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will" means that you can act wrongly. That is "free will". Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of "free will". Where is "free will" then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no "free will". Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly".

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes", but that is "free will". He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will. (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you can go." Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will''. (Morning Walk Cheviot Hills May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha”. (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)

It is NOT Maya and her material energy causing the jiva-souls to leave or fall down from Vaikuntha because there is no material nature (Maya) in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana that forces the jiva-soul to leave Krsna, Maya's temptation and material energy do NOT exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana however,  free will does exist there.

Srila Prabhupada - ''The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness.Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down’’. (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.”(Original Hare Krsna "Happening record album" New York December 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down.” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada – ''Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence''. (Letter to Jagadisa Prabhu, 4/25/1970.)

Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from, these spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities". (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” (Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsna Loka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krsna he is liberated". (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going". (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Acyutananda - ''But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming ftom there, he never returns to the material creation."

Srila Prabhupada - ''But if he likes, he can return''.

Acyutananda - ''He can return?''

Srila Prabhupada - ''That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown''. (Morning Walk--February 19, 1976, Mayapur)

Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we could fall down in the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life". (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France).

Syamasundara - "Can we predict that returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however, some do come back?''

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time".

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. Otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he CAN fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is NOT to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again". (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)














No comments:

Post a Comment

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.