Only rascals claim the jiva-souls originate from the impersonal brahmajyoti, when in fact the jiva-soul's eternal home is Goloka-Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha planets.
How can there be love with just one?
Loving personal expressions and unique contribution, can only work when there are "two-sided" voluntary exchanges in a relationship.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love cannot be experienced with only one, or executed by only one, there MUST be two." (SB lecture Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
For the jiva-souls themselves there is no origin as Bhagavad Gita explains.
As said above, the jiva-souls eternally lived in their eternal home on the Vaikuntha planets or in Goloka-Vrindavana.
The material world, the impersonal brahmajyoti and entering the Body of Maha-Visnu are already "fallen condition" the jiva-souls fall too.
Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness." (Letter to Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
These nonsense so called devotees believe the following foolishness-
"The brahmajyoti, the non differentiated marginal plane, is the source of infinite jiva-souls, atomic spiritual particles of nondifferentiated character. The rays of the Lord's transcendental body are known as the brahmajyoti, and a pencil of a ray of the brahmajyoti is the jiva."
The real truth is as follows-
Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG, Aug 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense, EVERYONE comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna, he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Hare Krsna "Happening record album" New York City, Dec 1966)
The jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa have ALWAYS existed, they were never created, there is no origin or beginning point to their existence because they have ALWAYS existed as Bhagavad Gita As It Is confirms!
Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "_The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form, and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture on BG 2.14 - Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
Devotee - "What is the form of the spiritual body. If the spirit soul is non-material, what is the form?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this material body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. You have got legs; therefore your pant has got legs. Therefore it is to be assumed that the spirit soul always has got form, and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. The spirit soul is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say and foolishly believe it has no form." (Lecture BG, 2.14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form, God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."
Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"
Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes, they are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."
Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, May 20, 1975)
Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some "so called place" in the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky, including tatastha-sakti that foolish sangas and their nonsense guru's foolishly claim.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity”
This means, just like Krsna, they are beginning less and endless, and were NEVER created-
Bhagavad Gita - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 12 also confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created because they have no origin and have existed for infinity like Krsna has, as Krsna explains-
Bhagavad Gita - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG 2.12)
The meaning of "marginal" energy explained as follows. The individual jiva-souls are collectively known as Krsna's “marginal energy.”
This marginal energy or potency is NOT some place in the Spiritual Sky where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm, who ARE the jiva-souls, have NO origin.
The individual jiva-souls are everywhere in both the spiritual and material worlds and always have existed without having any origin nor will they ever cease to be.
The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence of either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.
Marginal means in-between.
In actual fact, the jiva-souls are in-between the spiritual energy (realm) and the material energy (realm), this is why they are called marginal (in-between).
So, clearly the marginal potency is NOT a place where jiva-souls come from, the marginal potency ARE the individual jiva-souls who were never created and have no origin, nor will they ever cease to be as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains.
Many have misunderstood these facts about what "marginal" really means. It is NOT some place in outer space jiva-souls are generated from.
Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some "so called place" in the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky, including tatastha-sakti the impersonal brahmajyoti and the Body of Maha-Visnu that foolish sangas (religious cults) and their nonsense guru's foolishly claim.
Being "marginal" means in-between and includes having free will, or having the choice to be influenced by the spiritual energy (the jiva-souls nature position and full potential) or influenced by the material energy (unnatural conditioned state)
As said above, the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.
There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals.” (Lecture on BG 9.4 - Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity”
This means, just like Krsna, they are beginning less and endless, and were NEVER created-
Bhagavad Gita - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 12 also confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created.
This is because they have no origin and have existed for infinity like Krsna has, as Krsna explains-
Bhagavad Gita - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG 2.12)
Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)
There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls), who have existed for as long as Krsna has existed which is eternity.
Therefore, jiva-souls do NOT originate from the so called marginal plane if one thinks it is some place because the jiva-souls have no origin.
The "jiva-souls," who naturally belong in the spiritual energy (Goloka-Vrindavana) as individual spiritual PERSONS with Krsna, are called "marginal living entities" because they are influenced by either the spiritual energy or the material energy explained as follows by Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom.” (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul). Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG, As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Of course in the material creation there is almost no free will while trapped in the species of material life, there is only the instinct of-
eating,
sleeping,
mating,
defending.
The human species are also directed by karmic reactions (the reactions to their pious and impious actions) because in the human material bodily form the living entities are responsible for their actions good or bad.
Real freedom or free will only fully exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Understanding free will and one's eternal individual right to make their own choices and contributions in the spiritual world, is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls)
As said above, being "marginal" means having the choice to be influenced by either the spiritual energy (the jiva-souls nature position and full potential in the spiritual world) or by the material energy (unnatural conditioned state), the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.
There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The jiva-souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)
Only the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) can express themselves in seperate way from Krsna which means they have free will.
This is because all Visnu-tattva personalities ARE Krsna just playing unlimited roles in other ways in His own pastimes.
Mother Yasoda is not a jiva-soul, she is a direct expansion of Krsna (Visnu-tattva)
In other words, just like Krsna is also Balarāma, and Radharani is also Krsna but in a different mood, Mother Yasoda is also an expansion of Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada - "Nanda and mother Yasoda are the eternal father & mother of Krsna. This means that whenever Krsna descends, Nanda and Yasoda, as well as Vasudeva and Devaki, also descend as the Lord's father and mother. Their personalities are expansions of Krsna's personal body." (SB, Canto 10.8.48)
Srila Prabhupada - "Even in Vaikuntha you can choose not to serve Krsna if you want."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna protect us from that desire?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He is protecting. Krsna says, "You rascal, don’t desire like that, surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?''
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, if you catch one girl or boy and demand, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ Is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you! Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. "So God does not interfere with your independence." (Conversation Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is the choice to misuse free will, then there is no question of free will!" (Room discussion with Hayagriva dasa)
Srila Prabhupada - "To explain more clearly, all expansions of the Lord begin with Sri Krsna. For His pastimes in one of the highest levels of the spiritual realm, called Dvaraka, Sri Krsna expands Himself into Balarama, who then expands Himself into Pradyumna and Aniruddha.
These four expand into a second quadruple which is present in the unlimited Vaikuntha planets of the spiritual sky. The second quadruple is known as
Vasudeva,
Sankarshana,
Pradyumna,
Aniruddha.
They are changeless, transcendental expansions of the Supreme Lord, Krsna.
In the second quadruple, Vasudeva is an expansion of Krsna, and Sankarshana is a representative of Balarama.
In the Vaikuntha spiritual sky there is the pure, spiritual creative energy called Suddha-satva that sustains all of the spiritual planets with the full opulences of knowledge, wealth, power, beauty, etc., all of which pervade the entire spiritual kingdom and are fully enjoyed by the residents there.
This energy is but a display of the creative potencies of Balarama, Maha Sankarshana. It is also this Sankarshana who is the original cause of the Causal Ocean (which takes shape as a cloud in a corner of the spiritual sky) where Karanodakashayi Visnu (Maha-Visnu) sleeps, while breathing out the seeds of the innumerable universes.
This is the start of the material creation. It is the Karana Ocean, also called the Causal Ocean, in which the material universes are manifest.
When the cosmic creation is annihilated, all of the materially conditioned, although indestructible, living entities merge back into the body of Maha-Visnu where they rest until the time of the next creation.
So Balarama as Sankarshana is the origin of Maha-Visnu, from whom originates all of the potencies of the material manifestation." (CC, Adi-lila, 5.41 and purport)
Fortunately, over 90% of jiva-souls choose to stay in the spiritual world's of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, even though they can choose to leave if they want.
However, sadly, almost 10% do choose to leave and enter the material creation via the dreams of Maha-Visnu.
The jiva-souls have the free will to make their own choices which includes even rejecting Krsna. For free will to truly exist, this choice also must be an option.
In the spiritual worlds the jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna is always voluntary.
Their individual contributions are eternally expressed in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana in a "two-way" reciprocal exchange with Krsna.
In the spiritual worlds the jiva-souls are never forced to surrender to Krsna or do anything they choose not to do.
For loving service and exchanges to truly exist, the individual jiva-souls must be able to act on their free will and make their own choices, decisions and offerings, even if it also means rejecting Krsna if they choose, otherwise there can be no question of voluntary loving exchanges.
Each jiva-soul can voluntarily express themselves as an independent individual to experience unique loving exchanges and personal service.
Srila Prabhupada – “So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
Dr. John Mize – "Did all the jiva-souls that were in the spiritual sky (the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavan) fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any jiva-souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"
Srila Prabhupada – "No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down."
Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%."
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are… Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down."
Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a jiva-soul is going to be foolish and fall?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient."
Dr. John Mize – "Are more jiva-souls falling all the time?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence. Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example, just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing." Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency."
Dr. John Mize – "The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka) is?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes."
Dr. John Mize – "From where does that tendency come?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says,yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like." (BG, As It Is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Originally, the jiva-souls chose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana because of independent desires for self centred enjoyment without Krsna.
They are not material desires that caused us to leave because there is no Maya in the spiritual world however, there is ALWAYS "free will."
The jiva-souls can always choose to enjoy separate from Krsna in Vaikuntha, but instantly those independent rebellious desires cause us to leave Vaikuntha and enter the dreams of Maha-Visnu in the material world.
One again, self centered desires are NOT material desires because nothing material (maya) exists in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.
It is those "separate" desires to enjoy independent of Krsna that send us out of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, and into the material world.
We then "hire" a suitable material bodily vessel off Maha-Visnu that allows us to enter the material creation and begin experiencing an active existence.
The human form of life is extremely very rare, most visitors from Vaikuntha to the material world end up in the lower species of life (body)
According to Vedic scripture there are 8 million 400 thousand species of life and only 400 thousand are human and demigod species.
So the human form is rare let's not misuse it.**^^
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