Srila Prabhupada - "The individual jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is always voluntary, some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; so they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna and become flower, voluntarily.
And one can change their spiritual bodily form, from flower to human bodily form, that is spiritual life. There is no restriction, if a devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, they serve Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, as field or pathway, as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything is possible, it is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
All the individual jiva-souls (devotees) in the spiritual world (the Vaikuntha planets of Visnu, and Krsna’s central Abode of Goloka-Vrindavana) can always express themselves in their own unique way, in the spiritual body they choose, with voluntary offerings to Krsna and Visnu. Such unique personal contributions the individual jiva-souls (devotees) they always voluntary choose.
In the spiritual world, all relationships with Krsna are equally blissful to each other, just like one may like a carnation flower, while others may choose to like a rose flower.
So whether one's spiritual bodily form is human, a blade of grass, a tree, as bird or a bench, spiritually they are equal individual jiva-souls.
Although, the original spiritual form of every individual jiva-soul is like Krsna's two armed form Prabhupada has explained.
The full potential and eternal original feature (spiritual bodily form) of all marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls), is a two-arm form like Krsna's Body.
The individual jiva-souls were never created, they are beginningless and endless like Krsna is.
Srila Prabhupada - "God is also human form, "man is made after the shape of God," so Kṛṣṇa is also like human form, two hands, two legs." The human form is also the full manifestation of the individual jiva-soul." (Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada - "The individual spirit soul is not formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 Text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form, God is also human form, man is made after the shape of God, I think that is in the Bible also, is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."
Hari-sauri dasa – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"
Srila Prabhupada – [describing material form first] "Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."
Hari-sauri dasa - "Are they covered in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, the appearance of the devotee (individual jiva-soul) is voluntary, in what ever form they choose [as explained above] (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
Real loving exchanges or service can only exist in a "two-way" reciprocal relationship and never under a "one-sided" mindless totalitarian communist manipulative dictatorship.
Only free will allows the individual jiva-souls to voluntarily participate in loving devotional exchanges with Krsna and Visnu, and contribute to the relationship with the Lord in their own unique way.
Such voluntary service deepens one's exchanges with Krsna through personal expressions that enhances, enriches and adds mystery and a variety of flavours to one's unique relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world.
Krsna allows the eternal individual jiva-souls (devotees) in the spiritual world to continually re-invent themselves with their own voluntary unique contributions, this allows diversity, meaning an unlimited range of variegatedness in one's personal service to Krsna that is forever expanding their progressive independent contributions, infinitely expanding their voluntary participation, personal contributions, inspiration and service in an unlimited variety of unique ways in Krsna's never ending expanding blissful pastimes (lilas)
Srila Prabhupada – "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. It never achieved by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that - ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Lecture, Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Personalism is only possible in a "two-way" exchange of feelings and emotions that expands, enriches and multiplies loving affection, sentiment and exchanges between the individual jiva-souls and Krsna.
Without free will, one would never have the vision to intelligently contribute in their relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or increase and expand one's awareness of who they are as a contributing independent individual marginal living entity (jiva-soul).
Having "free will" therefore is the eternal constitutional make up of every marginal living entity (individual jiva-soul), and the foundation for all individual jiva-soul's selfless contributions to Krsna.
However, this also means one can reject Krsna if they choose, otherwise free will has no meaning.
Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."
Hayagriva dasa - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his free will. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Rene Descartes)
Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No, it is not good, that is not love, that is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything in return, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City, Nov 23, 1966)
Why does Krsna allow the marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls) to enter the temporary decaying material creation in the first place, knowing they will experience so much suffering in the cycle of repeated birth and death in 8 million 400 thousand species of material life forms (in material bodily vessels)
Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down due to having the free will to choose. Here it is explained, "don’t fall down!"
Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving Krsna in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom (free will), it is your desire, it is the execution of your free will, without free will you are no better than dead stone. How can you love Kṛṣṇa without free will? You must also contribute to the relationship with Krsna as the person you are eternally, making it is always a "two-way" cooperative exchange?"
Devotee – "In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this temporary material world, if Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come to the temporary material world, just like sometimes a child forces his father to do something the father sees as dangerous. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this, do not go there, it is not safe." But the child insists, "Oh, I must go, I must go.” Krsna warns "All right, you go at your risk." What can be done? Because you are Son of God you have got independence (free will), therefore, you have acquired this quality of independent freedom of self expression from your father. You have got little independence (free will) and God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that "I must go and enjoy independently," God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position, this is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come to the material world and try to enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have independence (free will), you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence. If you persist that “I must enjoy independently," God says, "All right, you can go.” This is the position, if you persist, God sanctions. And you can come here and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
The individual jiva-souls (devotees) are unique independent living entities in the spiritual world who have their own personality and independence separate from Krsna's Personality, yet simultaneously dependent on Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, as His parts and parcels.
The reason is very clear, Krsna allows the individual jiva-souls their independence and free will so they can voluntary choose how to serve Him in their own unique personal way, which includes even rejecting Him if they choose, to have free will fully means this.
This also allows the individual jiva-souls to contribute their own unique offerings out of unconditional personal love, without being forced by Krsna.
Although, there is always encouragement and suggestions from genuine pure devotees of the Lord who want to nurture, inspire and encourage the fallen individual jiva-souls to get out of the mundane material world and return home back to Godhead in the spiritual world.
Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one, or love cannot be executed by only one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then there is love." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness. So how can there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience? Love means one? No, love means two, there must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover, He loves you so much He is trying to get you back home to the spiritual world, that is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy/girl, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture, SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)
Surrender to Krsna in the spiritual world never means giving up your free will, or unique ability of self expression and allow Krsna to control all your actions, deeds, words and thoughts.
No, the individual jiva-souls (devotees) in the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planet's of Visnu and Krsna’s central Abode of Goloka-Vrindavana, are not impersonalist programmed only to obey in a "one-sided" dominating mindless loveless existence, never being able to contribute to their relationship with Krsna or Visnu in their own special unique exclusive way.
The fact is, the individual jiva-souls (devotees) are always thinking for themselves of different ways to please Krsna.
The individual jiva-souls (devotees) can never lose their free will (expressing themselves independently) on the Vaikuntha planets or Krsna's central Abode of Goloka-Vrindavana, which are the individual jiva-soul's real home.
The individual ability of self expression is the individual jiva-souls offering their own personal contributions to Krsna, unique to each individual jiva-soul (devotee).
Only by having free will can the individual jiva-souls express their own unique personality as an individual person, otherwise the individual jiva-souls (devotees) are no better than dead mindless stone.
Free will allows genuine loving exchanges and reciprocation to take place, and as said above, without free will, the individual jiva-souls (devotees) are like dead stone Prabhupada has warned.
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will, don't try to become stone either, that is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Furthermore, Krsna never interferes with the free will of the individual jiva-souls (devotees) because if He did by never allowing "free will" (freedom of self-expression and voluntary unique contributions), then that would mean loving exchanges of voluntarily reciprocation with Krsna would never exist.
If one is forced to worship God (Krsna or Visnu, etc) then that is not love, it is tyranny, bullying and enslavery (impersonalism).
This impersonal bogus version of God's Abode explained above, is where the individual jiva-souls (devotees) are forced to surrender their free will and allow their bogus version of God to take over their every actions and thoughts, such a nonsense "one-sided" dictatorship is what mayavadi loveless impersonalism is.
Love can never be experienced with just one, there must be two for reciprocation, loving co-operation and exchanges to exist.
Therefore, denying that the individual jiva-souls have their own unique free will, personality and character forcibly, by God doing all the thinking and actions for them in the bogus name of surrender, as some nonsense religious groups propagate, is dangerous impersonalism.
Having genuine free will (being able to openly express oneself) allows the individual jiva-souls (devotees) to be themselves as an independent unique contributing PERSONS who voluntary choose their own unique relationship with Krsna, including the spiritual body they serve Him as.
Voluntary service (that requires creative progressive thoughts and unique personal contributions) is the bases of real genuine selfless surrender in Goloka Vrindavana, and in the Vaikuntha planets, which are the permanent eternal homes and origin of the marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls).
The individual jiva-souls on the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, are forever voluntarily expanding the expression of their unique individuality with an increasing variety of personal devotional offerings based on free will, it is never a nonsense one-sided master/slave mindless relationship with Krsna or Visnu.
Krsna does not control His surrendered individual jiva-souls by force like a puppet master controls every movement of his puppets with the manipulations of strings. Such manipulation in the spiritual world would only deny self expression, individual contributions, voluntary service and the ability to even reject Krsna if one chooses.
If one is denied "free will" or the ability to express themselves in their own unique way as a contributing person, then they are no better than dead useless stone.
Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will if I can act only one sided? That means I have no free will. Because we can act wrongly means we have free will." (Philosophy discussions with Rene Descartes).
However, Krsna does control His pure devotees with loving effection and respect. The individual jiva-souls allows this out of their unconditional love for Krsna who always looks after His pure devotees.
The marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls) never lose their free will because they are eternal, there was no beginning to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) existence, nor will there be an end as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains.
The individual jiva-souls are eternal unique (meaning each one has a different personality and spiritual bodily form, even though sometimes similar) living PERSONS as a spiritual body who can never be destroyed, terminated or extinguished, the individual jiva-souls are indestructible.
Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 9 July 1970)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG, Ch 2 text 12)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change." (BG, Ch 2 text 13)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed." (BG, Ch 2 text 14)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O best among men [Arjuna], the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation." (BG, Ch 2 text 15)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both." (BG, Ch 2 text 16)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul." (BG, Ch 2 text 17)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is sure to come to an end; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata." (BG, Ch 2 text 18)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 19)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20 corrected 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?" (BG, Ch 2 text 21)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." (BG, Ch 2 text 22)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind." (BG, Ch 2 text 23)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same." (BG, Ch 2 text 24)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body." (BG, Ch 2 text 25)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "If, however, you think that the soul [or the symptoms of life] is always born and dies forever, you still have no reason to lament, O mighty armed." (BG, Ch 2 text 26)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "One who has taken his birth is sure to die, and after death one is sure to take birth again. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament." (BG, Ch 2 text 27)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?"(BG, Ch 2 text 28)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Some look on the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all." (BG, Ch 2 text 29)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O descendant of Bharata, he who dwells in the material body can never be slain. Therefore, you need not grieve for any living being." (BG, Ch 2 text 30)
Free will has nothing to do with the temporary decaying material bodily vessel (matter), "free will" is a symptom of the eternal individual jiva-soul (anti-matter) and is the constitutional make up of the individual jiva-souls on the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana, where nothing material can exists.
Therefore, Maya (material energy) does not exist in the spiritual world to tempt the individual devotees however, there is always free will (freedom of self expression and unique voluntary contributions) in the spiritual world (The Kingdom of God)
Many cannot understand this fact that due to "free will," that Kṛṣṇa grants to all individual jiva-souls for the purpose of allowing unique creativity, voluntary cooperation and independent choices, as a singular personality.
Therefore, due to free will, the individual jiva-souls can leave the Vaikuntha planets of Visnu, or Krsna's central Abode of Goloka-Vrindavana anytime they choose.
Although most, over 90% of individual jiva-souls, never make that choice at the same time, but can if they want too due to eternally having free will as part and parcel of their constitutional make up.
Remember, the stage is eternal, and over that eternity it is obviously possible, at one point or another, nearly all individual jiva-souls may have fallen down.
However, there are some devotees who have never fallen down to the temporary material world.
Srila Prabhupada explains here-
Syamasundara dasa - "Can we predict that returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however, some do come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence (free will). There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence (free will) at any time."
Syamasundara dasa - "And some come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence (free will). Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right, you do whatever you like."
Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence (free will), therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara dasa on Henri Bergson philosophy).
Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that, "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down from the spiritual world. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, "If I could become the master." They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking."
Vipina Purandara dasa - "Why doesn’t Krsna protect us from that desire to live separate from Him?
Srila Prabhupada - "He’s protecting, He says, "You rascal, don’t desire that way that causes you to fall away, surrender unto Me, stay with me." But you are rascal; you do not do this."
Vipina Purandara dasa - "Why doesn’t Krsna save me from thinking like that?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
By misusing one's free will is the cause of the individual jiva-soul to choose to live separately from Krsna and enter the temporary material creation. And this choice has nothing to do with maya or the material energy as explained above, it is simply based on free will.
As Prabhupada has explained, it is one's free will that allows the individual jiva-souls to reject Krsna.
This is because each individual jiva-soul is an independent person, who can always make their own choices. And yes, this also includes rejecting Krsna if they want, that instantly places them in the material world.
Acyutananda Swami - "But in the Bhagavad Gita, Krsna says - "Once returning from the temporary material world to the eternal spiritual world, one will never again fall down to the material world."
Srila Prabhupada - "But if he likes, he can return."
Acyutananda Swami - "He can return?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, that independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse of free will is the cause of our falldown." (Morning Walk, Feb 19, 1976, Mayapur)
Paramahamsa Swami - "But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return to the temporary material world."
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is return if one wants, that is voluntary, return is always there if one chooses, otherwise what is the point of free will?"
Paramahamsa Swami - "So if we want we can reject Krsna and go to the material world."
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."
Paramahamsa Swami - "That means we can go back to the spiritual world, but again can return to the material?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."
Paramahamsa Swami - "We can fall down at anytime?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, as soon as we think, "Oh, this material world is very nice," Krsna says, "yes, you can go and enjoy if you want, otherwise what is the meaning of free will?" Every living entity has got a little free will and Krsna is so kind, He gives everyone the opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students sometimes go away, then again come back. It is free will. Just like one goes to the prison-house, not that government welcomes, "Come in here, we have got the prisonhouse, come here, come here." He goes there due to free will; again comes out, then again goes back. Like that.
Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare, nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare.
The police are there in their police car to make sure laws are not broken, if you do anything criminal, immediately you will be arrested and be in police custody. Similarly, the maya (the temptations of material energy) may be there, but maya only captures one who is not a devotee of Krsna. Therefore, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te-
"Anyone who surrenders unto Me, maya does not interfere anymore."
Paramahamsa Swami - "So our desire to enjoy separately from Krsna causes these temporary material bodies; and our desire to achieve Krsna brings keeps us in our natural spiritual position in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles).÷÷.
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