Srila
Prabhupada - "The next question, about the
living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal
brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of
non-Krsna consciousness.
Those who are in the brahman
effulgence (impersonal brahmajyoti) they are also already in the fallen condition, so there is no question of
falling down from an already fallen condition.
When fall takes place, it means falling
down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna
consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not
fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is
fallen down. It does not matter where a living entity stays.
In the material world also there are
different stages of living conditions, and to remain in the brahman effulgence
is also another phase of that fallen condition. Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is
stated that conditioned souls by their pious activities are elevated to the
higher planetary system, but as soon as the stock of pious activities is
finished he again comes down on the earthly planet.
Similarly those who are elevated
beyond the planetary system to the brahma effulgence, they are also prone to
fall down as much as a living entity from the higher planetary system. As such those who are thinking that
they are liberated by being situated in brahman effulgence are described in the
Srimad-Bhagavatam as impurely intelligent.
In other words, they are actually not
liberated, and because they are not actually liberated they again come down to
the material world as much as a living entity elevated to the higher planetary
system comes down to this earthly planet. So we do not accept anyone elevated
to the brahman effulgence as actually liberated."
(Letter to Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Srila
Prabhupada was very clear on this subject of where the eternal jiva-soul's perpetual home is - "Formerly
we were with Krsna in His lila or sport." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami, Melb Australia June 1972)
Srila
Prabhupada - "We have also come down from
Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture BG, Aug 6, 1973)
Srila
Prabhupada - These spirit souls and all
spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, Feb 1970)
Srila
Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we
are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with
matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the
material atmosphere." (Hare Krsna record album with Prabhupada Dec 1966)
Srila
Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha planets and Krsnaloka,
if I desire that "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I
immediately fall down to the material world." (Lecture July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.)
Srila
Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned
(nitya-baddha). You are thinking, just like in a dream you are thinking a tiger is eating you, but you were never eaten by tiger, there is no tiger, it is just a dream. So we
have to get out of this dream of the material world." (Lecture CC, Adi-lila
7.108, San Francisco, Feb 18, 1967)
Srila
Prabhupada - "Originally everyone is
nitya-siddha (Krsna conscious). nitya-siddha Krsna Bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya
sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity (jiva-soul) is originally
nitya-siddha." (SB class, Canto 7 Ch 9 text 4, Mayapur, West Bengal Feb 18, 1977)
The following Conversation took place in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples.
Devotee - "Why did we come to the temporary material world of repeated birth and death when we already have a perfect relationship serving Krsna in the spiritual world? What causes us to fall down from the spiritual world to the temporary material world, because we’re already
serving Krsna in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because of desire. Because of free will you
desire to fall down, here it is explained, don’t fall down, don't misuse your free-will."
Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t
understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving, how is that possible?"
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have your freedom too (free-will) that Krsna will not interfere with. It
is free-will and desire that is the cause of fall down."
Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam,
it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this temporary material world. If Krsna did not want us to come here, then why are we here?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come to the material world. Just like sometimes a child forces his father.
Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But the child insists,
“Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk and suffer." What can be done? Because you are Son of God you have got
independence, full independence (free-will), therefore you have acquired the
quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not
interfere with your little independence (free-will). If you persist that "I must go and enjoy
independently," so God says, "All right, you can go and enjoy or suffer.” This is the position. You
have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And
you come and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Acyutananda – "But in the Bhagavad Gita Krsna promises, “Once coming to the spiritual world, the jiva-souls never again returns to the material world, so he can return?"
Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he
can return, that is voluntary."
Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can
become envious of Krsna and want to enoy like Kṛṣṇa?"
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got
little independence (free-will), you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God,
God has got full independence, but you have got little independence,
proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if you like, you can return to the material world, that is voluntary otherwise free-will has no meaning.
That independence (free-will) has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that free will.
Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse of free-will is the cause of our
falldown to the material world." (Conversation in Mayapur West Bengal, Feb 19, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "So even in the
Vaikuntha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down to the material world, that is natural. A servant is serving the
master, but sometimes he may think that, "only if I could become the master?" They
are thinking like that; they are foolishly trying to become God, that is delusional because you
cannot become God, that is not possible, But one wrongly thinks they can."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna protect us from that desire and thinking that way?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He is protecting you, Kṛṣṇa says, "You rascal, don’t misuse your free will with mistaken self centred desires, surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you
do not do this, you choose not to surrender, and free will allows that choice."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna save me from making those wrong selfish choices?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you
lose your independence (self expression or free-will) and instead forced to surrender and only obey with out question. In Bengali it is said - "If you catch one
girl or boy and force them to love me, demand they love me, by keeping them a prisoner until they love me, is it love? You love
me otherwise I will kill you! Is that love?" So Kṛṣṇa does not want to
become a lover like that, on the point of revolver, you love me otherwise I
shall kill you! That is not love; that is threatening and being held against your will.
Real love is reciprocal,
voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is
rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (Lecture 8 June 1976 in
Washington, D.C)
One can only know loving exchanges when they
have the freedom of individual self expression in, which means being able to voluntary choose this side or that side, which proves you have free will because "voluntary" means making a choice.
Devotee - "In Bhagavad Gita it is said that once the eternal individual jiva-soul gets out of the material world and goes back to Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana),
there’s no possibility of falling back to the material world?"
Srila
Prabhupada - "No! There is possibility because that is always voluntary, but if one is intelligent, then they do return come back to the material world.
Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you will never
put it in again if you are really intelligent. So, those who are going back to
Godhead, they have become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead if you will again fall down?
Understanding this requires constant intelligence and that is why the devotees are always praying to Krsna that they never again fall down. Just like we are
in renounced order of life.
So, we have renounced our family life after thinking
something. Now, if somebody comes, “Swamiji, you take thousand millions of
dollars and marry again and become a family man,” I’ll never become, because I
have got my bad experience. I’ll never become."
Srila
Prabhupada - "You are liberated, you are
liberated, simply just a cloud has covered you, so drive away the cloud! There is
no question that you were ever conditioned, you are ever-liberated, the sky is always
spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this Maya, this is
called Maya."(Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Melb, Australia June 1972)
Srila
Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not
conditioned, you are thinking, just like in the dream you are thinking that
tiger is eating you, but you were never eaten by tiger, there is no tiger, it wa just a dream." (Letter
to Madhudvisa Swami in Melb, Australia June 1972)
Sakti-tattva is not exclusively Visnu-tattva because the word "sakti-tattva" refers to ALL of Krsna’s energies. So, there are different categories of sakti-tattva which are-
1 - The first expression of "sakti-tattva" is Krsna's eternal "internal energy" headed by Srimati Radharani, who is no different from Kṛṣṇa, with Her unlimited "Visnu-sakti-tattva" expansions (called Visnu-sakti-tattva), She is also known as the personification of "sakti-energy"
2 - Visnu-tattva, Krsna's anti-matter eternal living personalities known as Krsna's Visnu/Narayana expansions on the Vaikuntha planets (each with a further different name according to pastime. And also Maha-Visnu, Garbhodakashayi Visnu and Paramattama who create and m the temporary material world.
3 - Siva-tattva, the anti-matter eternal living individual Lord Siva and his many expansions, who are neither Visnu-tattva (God), or jiva-tattva (separated unique individual jiva-souls)
4 - The jiva-tattvas (jiva-souls) are "anti-matter" eternal individual "marginal" living entities unlimited in number. "Marginal" means the jiva-souls can remain in the spiritual world if they choose in their full spiritual potential, who attempt to live in the temporary material world covered by a bodily vessel made of matter.
5 - Mahat-tattva, the material energy (lifeless matter) found in 25% of the Spiritual Sky only. The other 75% of the Spiritual Sky is made up of "individual life," no lifeless matter exists in the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
The correct
understanding is that all of Krsna’s energies are under the broad category of
sakti-tattva. To make it simple there are only two categories.
1. Saktiman or God the controller of
the energy
2. Visnu-"sakti"-tattva living individual direct expansions of God, are
eternally occupied with their service to God, such expansions of God have only the
desire to please Krsna or His Visnu/Narayana expansion because they ARE Krsna playing a different role in His unlimited pastimes, they can never be covered by
Maya and their concept of free will and independence is only to please God because, as said above, they ARE direct expansions of Godhead.
The Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana are made up of many sakti
tattvas including the Visnu-tattva and Visnu-sakti-tattva expansions of Krsna and are NOT jiva-tattva (jiva-souls)
Most of the gopis, gopas and many many others inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, the Caitanya Caritamrita explains, are individual direct expansions of Kṛṣṇa known as Visnu-"sakti"-tattva personalities.
The many associates of Lord Kṛṣṇa and Lord Viṣṇu are made up of both Visnu-sakti-tattvas (direct expansions of God) and the individual jiva-tattvas (jiva-souls)
So, there are individual jiva-souls playing
many rolls in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrndavana alongside the Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas playing their unique role, but not known there as an expansion of Visnu by others. Not even Kṛṣṇa is seen as God in Goloka-Vrindavana although on the Vaikuntha planets Visnu is seen and worsholipped as God.
Also, the Visnu-"sakti"-tattva nitya siddha devotees can never
fall down as explained above.
The eternal individual jiva-souls are different from the individual Visnu-"sakti"-tattva direct expansions of Krsna, because they are also God who have 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities (93.75%).
The individual separated jiva-souls who have 50 of Krsna's 64 qualities (78.125%) can NEVER become Visnu-"sakti"- tattva (direct expansion of God).
As said above, all the different categories of living
entities are known as sakti-tattva because "sakti" means all of Krsna's energies. And everything living as individuals is Kṛṣṇa's energy.
However, there is a difference among all of Krsna’s sakti energy. The eternal individual jiva-souls are also Krsna's energy and expansions who have 78.125% of Krsna's qualities, which means they have 50 of Krsna's 64 qualities
The eternal individual jiva-souls like
us, can 'choose' to forget God and enter the mahat-tattva
creation (material world) of Maha-Visnu as nitya-baddha (conditioned) and foolishly think they are a god and can do anything they want.
God (Krsna) has many different energies-
1 - The unlimited number of individual jiva-tattvas (jiva-souls) is one,
2 - Matter (lifeless material energy) is one,
3 - The unlimited consorts of the Lord headed by Radharani are one,
4 - The unlimited direct expansions of God known as Visnu-tattva is one,
5 - Siva-tattva, who is neither Visnu-tattva or jiva-tattva, is one.
Only the eternal individual jiva-tattvas (jiva-souls) can fall from Goloka-Vrndavana and the Vaikuntha planets.
The Visnu-"sakti"-tattva expansions of Krsna mentioned above, can never fall down because they ARE Krsna playing a different role in His own pastimes therefore, they are more divine expansions of the Lord than the individual jiva-souls where the Visnu-sakti-tattvas identity are tied to Krsna as all ''one'' but expressed individually.
For example, all Visnu-tattva expansions of Krsna (also God) are "all-one" with Kṛṣṇa, where as the eternal jiva-souls are all unique individual separated personalities, they are NOT all one with Kṛṣṇa like the Visnu/Narayana personalities of the Vaikuntha planets are.
The real meaning of tatastha-sakti.
Lord Caitanya gives evidences
from the Mahā-purāṇam, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that the Supreme Lord, the Absolute
Truth, is analyzed in two characteristics.
What are they?
They are the personal or spiritual characteristics experienced in the spiritual world (liberated on the eternal Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana)
And the taṭastha characteristics where the jiva-souls are conditioned and have fallen to the material world or or fall further to the impersonal brahmajyoti.
Therefore, the eternal individual jiva-souls are only called tatastha-sakti in their "conditioned fallen state" outside the spiritual world.
Taṭastha is a reference pertaining to those eternal individual jiva-souls, who are marginal living entities, which also means borderline living entities, like a place that exists between the water and the shore, sometimes covered, sometimes not covered.
This means the individual jiva-souls (who by nature are eternal spiritual living entities), can remain in the spiritual world in their full spiritual potential, or become covered (conditioned) in the material world, or conditioned (inactive or dormant) in the impersonal brahmajyoti.
In other words, this means the marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls) can be under the spiritual energy (anti-matter) or the material energy (matter)
The eternal individual jiva-souls are therefore over infinity sometimes "conditioned" (fall to the material world, or fall futher to the impersonal brahmajyoti), and sometimes are liberated (not conditioned) and therefore remain in the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
So, this temporary material world is
the taṭastha characteristics, and the spiritual world is the personal
characteristics.
So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (materially conditioned) characteristics and enter the
permanent (spiritual) characteristics. That is called spiritual elevation. We should not remain in the taṭastha state (materially conditioned), but go to the permanent spiritual) state.
Tatastha-sakti is a name for the eternal individual jiva-soul in their "conditioned state" in the material creation and impersonal brahman.
HERE HERE HERE !@!
This also means jiva-souls can choose to be with Krsna, or choose to enter the mahat-tattva (material creation) or later after becoming frustrated with material enjoyment, the impersonal brahmajyoti, no eternal individual jiva-soul comes from tatastha-sakti because it
is not a place of origin for the jiva-souls who were never created and have always existed.
There are 160 names for the
jiva-tattva like baddha-jiva, siddha-jiva, tatastha-jiva, jiva-tattva,
jiva-sakti, jiva-bhutah etc that each describe the marginal living entity in
its particular possition.
For example tatastha sakti refers to the individual jiva-soul's sovereignty as an eternal living
being only while outside the spiritual world while in the material creation or merged in the impersonal brahmajyoti.
No, the eternal individual jiva-souls do NOT originate from
tatastha-sakti as the less intelligent and sentimentalist believe, because the eternal jiva-souls have no origin and were never created, they have always existed without a beginning or end.
The jiva-souls are only tatastha-sakti while in the material
universe or when trapped in the impersonal brahmajyoti or brahman or dormant in the atom.
Tatastha-sakti is not some place in
the cosmos; it is a description of the jiva-soul's (marginal living
entities) in their conditional state outside the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
The terminology tatastha-sakti does
not exist in the spiritual world because in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana the jiva-souls are not conditioned like in the material world and impersonal brahmajyoti.
In fact to enter the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, the eternal individual jiva-souls must
progress beyond the "conditioned state" known as tatastha-sakti that only exists outside the spiritual world.
Tatastha-sakti simply means the jiva-souls are in a "conditioned state" in the material world and while dormant in the impersonal brahmajyoti.
Srila
Prabhupada - "This material energy,
you cannot say that it is false. It is false. The Vaiṣṇava philosophy is
perfect. As the temperature (indistinct), it is sometimes manifested. And this
is called taṭasthā. This characteristic, this symptom of the Supreme Lord,
is called taṭasthā. Sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But,
so far the superior energy is concerned, that is always manifested. That is
explained in the next line. Dhāmnā svena sadā nirasta-kuhakaṁ paraṁ satyaṁ
dhīmahi. Now that is paraṁ satyam, the Supreme Truth, where there is no such
temporary manifestation'.
The marginal living entity (individual jiva-souls) is only known a tatastha-sakti while active in the material universe and inactive the impersonal
brahman (including being dormant in the atom) and never while in the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana.
The eternal individual jiva-souls have always had the free-will to love and serve Krsna, or reject Krsna.
The individual jiva-souls are never known as tatastha-sakti in the Vaikuntha planets or in Goloka-Vrindavana. This is because the word tatastha-sakti describes the conditioned state of the jiva-souls outside the spiritual world.
The marginal living entity or jiva
tattva's position is always marginal energy in both Goloka and the material
world - between lower dead material energy and higher spiritual energy of Krsna that includes His various expansions like Vishnu tattvas that includes
the His eternal associates of sakti tattvas that never fall from Vaikuntha.
In other word the jiva-soul is
between external (material) energy and internal (also eternal spiritual) energy
of Krsna Svayam Bhagavan.
In Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya,
Verse 6.160 are enumerated these three energies:
The spiritual potency of the Supreme
Personality of Godhead also appears in three phases-
internal,
marginal,
external.
Another verse (Caitanya Caritamrta,
Madhya, 8.152) gives more information
In other words, these are all
potencies of God,
internal,
external,
marginal.
But the internal potency
is the Lord's personal energy of sakti-tattvas and Visnu-tattvas and stands
over the other two. The individual jiva-souls or marginal energy can choose to enter
Vaikuntha or the material universes.
So, the eternal individual jiva-souls or marginal living entity are never
equal to Supreme Personality of Godhead and also always subordinate to Him.
The individual jiva-souls in their full uncontaminated potential above the designation of tatastha-sakti, are naturally part of Krsna's internal energy of of "individual persons."
The Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas, Visnu-tattvas, Siva-tattva (Lord Siva) and the jiva-souls all originate from their permanent residency in the spiritual world.
Lord Siva is often difficult to understand because he is partly contaminated by his position in the temporary material world and therefore is not equal to the Visnu-tattva expansions of Krsna who have 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities or 93.75%.
Lord Siva has 55 of Krsna's 64 qualities or 85.938%
The eternal youthful realm in the spiritual Sky known as the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, that take up 75% of the Spiritual Sky. This is the natural home of all the categories of individual living entites.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Taṭastha means
they are sometimes manifested and they are not sometimes manifested. So this
material world is the taṭastha characteristics, and the spiritual world is the
personal characteristics. So, our effort is to get out of this "taṭastha characteristic conditioned state."
Taṭastha-sakti is what the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are called outside of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana while in the material world and impersonal brahmajyoti.
The eternal individual jiva-souls are never known
as tatastha-sakti in the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana.
So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha-sakti conditioned characteristics in the material world. The jiva-souls are "not known" as tatastha-sakti in the spiritual world.
So, clearly the eternal individual jiva-souls are NOT known in the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrndavana as tatastha-sakti, an important point to understand, even though they are known as that designated conditioned state in the temporary material world and impersonal brahmajyoti.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Taṭastha means
they are sometimes manifested and they are not sometimes manifested. So this "temporary material world is the taṭastha characteristics," and the spiritual world is the "personal permanent characteristics."
So, our effort is to get out of taṭastha (temporary material world and impersonal brahmajyoti).
HERE HERE HERE HERE HERE
Then Prabhupada explains the permanent feature of the marginal living entity or jiva-soul is above the "conditioned state" of tastastha-sakti within the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana because the great majority of eternal individual jiva-souls (over 90%) only chooses Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada - "Taṭastha-sakti refers to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) OUTSIDE their "permanent" state within the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Tatastha-sakti is another name for the marginal living entities in the temporary material world of repeated birth and death, and within the dormant (inactive) impersonal brahmajyoti.
Srila Prabhupada - " Do you understand what this
‘’permanent characteristics’’ means? It’s beyond the meaning of tatastha of
actually ‘’choosing this side or that side, choosing Vaikuntha or the material
world because the majority, 90% never ever make that choice and never fall
down.
However, as we know that can change
due to free will, the ability to choose or sheer smallness of the marginal
living entity and only then does the influence of tatastha manifest with less
that 10% of jiva-souls in Vaikuntha.
The permanent characteristics is ones
eternal svarupa and while one is in that original position, as ones real self
then the influence of tatastha does not exists even though technically it does.
The Spiritual Sky is the entire
existence that has no beginning and has always existed. This means there is
wall to wall, so to speak, of jiva tattvas (jiva-souls), sakti tattvas and Visnu-tattvas.
The eternal individual jiva-souls or Krsna's
marginal potency however are all accompanied by a Visnu-tattva expansion of Kṛṣṇa in the mahat-tattva (material world) where as in Vaikuntha they are more personally with
the Lord.
This part of the Spiritual Sky is
covered by a cloud of matter and within the basic material atoms of matter also
exists a fallen jiva-tattva (jiva-souls) accompanied by the Paramattama or Kshirodakashayi
Visnu.
Sarva gatah means life is everywhere
in both the Spiritual Sky known as Vaikuntha and the material aspect of the
Spiritual Sky called the mahat tattva or material creation.
There is always unlimited jiva-souls in the material creation, many have chosen to be ' inactive'
within each material atom, they are 'covered' and are in the a dormant state
that is known as the impersonal aspect of the brahmajyoti effulgence.
Some do not understand that the
entire Spiritual Sky IS all pervasive individual units of life. and the only
difference in the mahat tattva is that same 'life' is covered by matter, so the
sheer numbers of jiva tattvas should not surprise anyone as all matter is
covering that all-pervasive life force aspect of the Spiritual Sky.
Also some ask why do so many fall?
Well, it is less than 10% that enters the mahat tattva covered 25% of the
Spiritual Sky and one should not be bewildered by numbers as the Spiritual Sky
is vast and 'inconceivable large', in other words, how can one understand 75%
and 25% of 'eternity' that is beginningless and endless?
So our part of the Spiritual Sky is
covered by the mahat tattva. The entire Spiritual Sky IS the effulgence of
Krishna's Body and 1/4 is covered by the mahat tattva and we, the jiva tattvas,
are in that effulgence that is covered by the mahat tattva or material creation
that makes up less than 10% of all jiva-souls or Krsna’s marginal
potency.
Most jiva-souls are active in Krsna Consciousness in Vaikuntha while some, less than 10% have chosen to be
either ‘inactive’ within each atom, or ‘active’ in a material mahat tattva
temporary vessel within the material cloud that covers this aspect of the
Spiritual Sky
It is important to understand that all marginal living entities or jiva tattvas ‘originally’ come from
Goloka-Vrndavana and are always in a perpetual state of uniqueness’ meaning
they are forever fresh and youthful in their nitya-siddha body that is forever
'locked' within the 'eternal presence' of Krsna Consciosness if they 'choose'
to remember their original state.
Srila
Prabhupada – “No one falls from the
spiritual world (Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana), for they are eternal abode. (SB, Canto 3 Ch 16 text 26, purport) What does this really mean?
This clearly means the jiva-soul's nitya-siddha svarupa body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY
‘DREAM’, ‘THINK’ OR ‘IMAGINE’ WE LEAVE. In this way the mahat-tattva is the
destination for where such dreams go.
Such an inferior non-Krishna
conscious facsimile of the self is called the nitya-baddha sub-conscious self.
It is there they are provided with temporary bodily forms or vessels created by
Maha-Vishnu who is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva or material creation aspect
of the Spiritual Sky.
Such a spiritual body is ‘eternally’
endowed with a two-armed form like Krishna’s but can also appear as a four
armed form in the Vaikunthas in the mood of servitude, or further appear as a
flower, drop of rain, chair, etc regardless, the original form of the soul is
two armed just like Krishna’s.
What makes things confusing to
several is that some marginal living entities, who have manifested as their
inferior secondary baddha-jiva state in the material creation, can stay in the
material creation or mahat-tattva for what seems to be an almost eternity!
This means many baddha-jiva souls
enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution
of each mahat-tattva creation because of not being Krishna Conscious to awaken
to their true nitya-siddha body in Goloka.
In other words, this entrance into
the dormant impersonal Brahmajyoti condition only happens if they are not
qualified to again remember their ‘full potential awareness’ of being a nitya-siddha
perpetual Krishna Conscious body in Goloka.
In this way, the baddha-jiva
sub-conscious state starts off as a non-Krishna conscious selfishly active
dream (or thought)
Therefore it is only the secondary or
inferior baddha-jiva that is a formless state of consciousness that is
sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or
molecules (All referring to the baddha-jiva and NOT the nitya-siddha body due
to always being a Krishna Conscious bodily form).
This baddha-jiva condition can only
experience selfish desires through material bodily vessel provided by
Maha-Vishnu from within His mahat-tattva creation that clothes the secondary
baddha-jiva state with subtle (ethereal) and gross (biological) material
containers or bodily vessels of the mahat-tattva.
Srila
Prabhupada - “Because you are part and
parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little
independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel” Los Angeles,
June 23, 1975
Trivikrama
asks Srila Prabhupada - “You were just saying that we
are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I
read …
Srila
Prabhupada: “The same example. In dream I
am not attacked by the tiger, but I am …thinking, “Oh, tiger is there - It is
simply dreaming condition”.
Trivikrama: But so many Vaishnavas are praying…
Srila
Prabhupada - “So as soon as you understand
that “This is not… I am not in contact with tiger, it is all a dream,” then you
are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand “All this material
condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna,” then
you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious. If you keep in Krsna consciousness,
that “I am eternal servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. . . .
Trivikrama: This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very
fallen…
Srila
Prabhupada - “That is also illusion. That
is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except
service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly
in Krsna’s service, there is no question of falling down or there is no
question of Maya. You see?” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
In this lecture Srila Prabhupada is
very clear. Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krsna in the
spiritual world (As nitya-siddha). But when we want to take Krsna’s position,
we put ourselves into a dreaming state (As nitya-baddha) that can only exist in
the mahat-tattva, the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Vishnu.
In this dreaming nitya-baddha
condition we forget our actual position and are thus free to act out our desire
to become the supreme enjoyer.
This state of forgetfulness and
dreaming is characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual
world. But Srila Prabhupada explains that in reality we are not fallen. We are
simply in a dreaming nitya-baddha state.
Srila Prabhupada says that this is a
very important point and asks the devotees to carefully think about it.
This concept that we are not really
fallen offers an explanation for the statements that “no one falls from
Vaikuntha.” We do not fall. We simply forget our original nitya-siddha
relationship of service to Krsna. Some might argue that we have eternally
forgotten Krsna. But that is not supported by Srila Prabhupada’s purports
Srila
Prabhupada - “Tendency means the independence.
So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can
misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot
become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna
says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” Los Angeles, June
23, 1975
The people who claim we have
originated from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or a ‘clear sheet of consciousness’
sometimes alleges that those confronted with the choice of Krishna or the mahat-tattva
are conditioned souls and cannot be engaged in the Lord’s personal association.
They further assert that those who
have attained the personal association of the Lord never again misuse their
free will. In most cases that is correct because the marginal living entity
chooses to do so. For there to be genuine love or service, there must be
free-will other wise we are simply mindless porn’s in a collective of
monotonous bliss.
Further more, many do not understand
the true facts of how we actually did come down from Goloka due to miss using
that free will. We certainly did not come down as our nitya-siddha Krishna
Conscious body, which is perpetually there in Krishna’s pastimes fixed within
that eternal presence where nothing perishes
The understanding of the word ‘dream’
in regards to the marginal living entity falling from Goloka is significant in
Srila Prabhupada’s preaching yet has nothing to do with ’sleeping’ anywhere;
it’s all to do with time.
The proper understanding is this. It’s
all to do with the ‘eternal presence’ of the imperishable Vaikuntha’s and
Goloka that has no past or future, compared to the ‘past, present and future’
of the perishable material creation of Maha-Vishnu.
The marginal living entity, due to
free will and choice, falls out of synch with the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka
or Vaikuntha simply caused by their non-Krishna conscious mistaken desires.
This also means they fall our of synch with their own perpetual nitya-siddha
body and create an alternative consciousness known as the nitya-baddha
secondary self. It is this inferior consciousness that enters the mahat-tattva
dreams of Maha-Vishnu.
Such selfish desires place the
marginal living entity outside of Goloka as their nitya-baddha lower self that
enters the mahat-tattva (material creation).
Now it is important to understand
that while they are in the mahat-tattva, no time passes in Goloka-Vrndavana
because of the ‘eternal presence’ of Krsna Consciousness there. Now that
technically means their nitya-siddha body is NEVER fallen but rather it is
their ‘consciousness’ that is fallen
Lord Krishna states that our
constitutional nature is that all marginal living beings are eternal servants
of the Lord. So to say that ‘conditioned’ souls have never been ‘unconditioned’
in Goloka-Vrndavana is incorrect.
When the marginal living entity is in
a conditioned state (nitya-baddha), that doesn’t take away their eternal
absolute nature as a nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna who is forever fixed
within the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka. When a dark cloud covers the Sun,
everything becomes dark however, it is not the sun that goes dark, it is the
covering that makes it appear the Sun is dark.
Similarly, the nitya-siddha body of
the marginal living entity is always in Goloka-Vrndavana but due to the selfish
desires of the marginal living entity that cover the marginal living entities
‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body, it appears that the darkness or the
nitya-baddha secondary consciousness has replaced the nitya-siddha body, but
that is NOT so, one’s nitya-siddha body is ALWAYS in Goloka even when one
dreams they are nitya-baddha in the mahat-tattva or material creation.
The rebellious marginal living entity
simply becomes overshadowed with the concept of past, present and future
instigated by free-will, choice and their absolute smallness putting them out
of sync with the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka where their nitya-siddha body is
perpetually situated.
As a result, they have now adopted
the relative perception of existence that places them within the mahat-tattva’s
bodily vessels, which are all the dreams of the sleeping Maha-Vishnu.
As a result of this choice, the
marginal living entity is no longer ‘aware’ of Goloka or their nitya-siddha
body in Goloka that is perpetually fixed there due to the eternal presence of
Krishna consciousness as already explained and are now nitya baddha trapped in
the mahat-tattva of Maha-Vishnu
As in our case in the material world,
we are presently ‘eternally conditioned’ (nitya-baddha) because long, long,
long, long ago we made that choice to forget Krishna and simultaneously the
‘awareness’ of our nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) body we serve Krishna as.
And when again we achieve liberation
from this material world due to the mercy of pure devotee, we will enter Goloka
AGAIN by the method of becoming ‘aware’ of our genuine nitya-siddha Krishna
Conscious body or in simple terms, we begin to distinguish who we really our
that separates us from the MATERIAL DREAM state or nitya-baddha fallen self
centred consciousness.
Alan
Ginsberg - “How did the material
covering begin?”
Srila
Prabhupada - “Begin?”
Alan
Ginsberg - “As the material shadow. How
did we fall into that?
Srila
Prabhupada - “Yes. Yes. That is very
natural. . . Because jiva, although para-sakti, he has got independence. So
when he wants to imitate Krishna”.
Alan
Ginsberg - “. How did we fall into that?”
Srila
Prabhupada - “In the spiritual world,
Krishna is the enjoyer. And all others, they are enjoyed–predominator and the
predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement.
There they know, ‘The Lord is predominator; we have to serve.’ When this
service attitude is impaired, that–’Why serve Krishna? Why not ourself?’–that
is Maya”. - Room conversation with Allen Ginsberg in Columbus, OH 5-14-69
Devotee - “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect
relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world,
because we re already serving Krsna?
Srila
Prabhupada - “Because you desire to fall
down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.” And as soon as you associate
with the material nature, then you fall down.
Devotee - “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an
impure desire when we are already serving…
Srila
Prabhupada - “Because you have got little
freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his
desire…” Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 13.22-24 — Melbourne, June 25, 1974
Devotee - “You commented that everyone has a natural desire to have
relationship with Krsna, but that because…
Srila
Prabhupada - “Not desire, but he is
already established”.
Devotee - ” Established.
Srila
Prabhupada - “That is covered. Just like
your relationship with somebody as father and son, it is established. You might
have forgot, you might have left your home since a very, very long time, and
you do not know who is your father, but there is some father. That is a fact.
Nobody can say, “No. I, I have, I am born without father.” Nobody can say. One
has father, but it may be that he has forgotten his father.
So this Krsna consciousness movement
is that we have got some relationship with the Supreme Lord. That we have now
forgotten. So it is not the question of desire. It is there. You don’t desire
to become one’s son, you are already one’s son.
You simply do not know. Similarly,
your relationship with Krsna is there, every one of us, but I have forgotten; I
do not know. This Krsna consciousness practice will revive your relationship in
what way, in which way you are related with Krsna. It is not that you have to
desire.
No. It is already there. You have to
desire only how to revive it, that’s all. That is Krsna consciousness. It is
not an artificial thing. Just like we are establishing some relationship with
somebody or you are my father or you are my wife, you are my husband. No. It is
already there. Simply we have to find out.
That will be revealed when you are
perfect in Krsna consciousness, brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati, you are
freed from all material contamination, and you are perfectly situated in
devotional service; it will be at once revealed: “Oh, you are related to
Krsna.” You will have to wait for that. Bhagavad-gita Los Angeles, November 23,
1968
Paramahamsa - “But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return.
Srila
Prabhupada - “There is return, that is
voluntary. Return there is”.
Paramahamsa - “If we want”.
Srila
Prabhupada - “Yes”.
Paramahamsa - “So we can come to the spiritual world and return?”
Srila
Prabhupada - “Yes”.
Paramahamsa - “Fall down?”
Srila
Prabhupada - “Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh,
this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go.” Just like
nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness.
It’s not so difficult to ‘realize’
that long, long, long, long ago we were with Krishna as our permanent real
nitya-siddha body but have now chosen not only to forget Krishna, but also
forget that nitya-siddha body within the realm of perpetual originality called
Vaikuntha
When a devotee regains his/hers
original Krsna Consciousness and re-establishes ‘the awareness’ of their
nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka, which is never lost while dreaming as
nitya-baddha in the perishable creation, does not mean that one is only restricted
by one particular svarupa (body) for eternity in Krishna’s pastimes
Ones eternal body is not limited to
any particular nitya-siddha body they have there.
Also there are examples of devotees
participating in the pastimes of the Lord in more than one svarupa at the same
time, therefore our eternal rasa can change in Goloka; even though our nitya
siddha or rasa body is perpetually situated in Goloka as a two armed form in
it’s originality as Srila Prabhupada confirms.-
Yasomatinandana - “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”
Srila
Prabhupada - “Yes, human form. God is also
human form. “Man is made after the shape of God.” So God is also like human
form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs”. Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 -
Melbourne, May 20, 1975
So unlike the material bodies in the
mahat-tattva that are temporary decaying vessels the nitya-baddha consciousness
moves around in, we ARE our body (nitya-siddha) in Goloka though, that body can
transform because our eternal svarupa is interchangeable.
For example, ones svarupa can change
to a four-armed form in the Vaikuntha Planets or a different form in Lord
Caitanya’s pastimes in the top most platform in Goloka that He sometimes brings
to the material world as pastimes, although very rare.
In simple terms, one has the ability
to ’shape shift’ into any form to please Krsna Caitanya and can also be in many
places in various forms at the same time.
Caitanya Caritamrita is full of such
examples. Most are Vishnu tattva expansions although there are many jiva
tattva’s like Naradha Muni as well. No jiva tattva in Lord Caitanya Lila is
restricted only to their two-armed perpetual svarupa-nitya-siddha body
Srivasa Thakura is known as Narada
Muni, he also has his svarupa manifestation in Goloka. Therefore, by the
elegance of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Narada Muni is also simultaneously situated in
the top most regions of Goloka where Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s endless pastimes are
going on.
Further more, Srila Prabhupada has
explained that Narada Muni enters the material world often disguised in
different bodily vessels to preach Krishna Consciousness.
Who can understand the
multidimensional full potential abilities of the liberated nitya-siddha souls?
Srila Prabhupada mentions in the 4th
Canto Chapter 28 of the Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna says - “Don’t you
remember me? I was your very close friend, but you gave up My Company and came
to this material world”.
When asked directly about whether the
jiva was ever in the spiritual world, Srila Prabhupada mentions in the 4th
Canto Chapter 28 of the Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna (in the form of a
Brahmana) says to King Puranjana (in his next life, as the daughter of Kind
Vidarbha) “Don’t you remember me? I was your very close friend, but you gave up
My Company and came to this material world”.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.52: The
Brahmana inquired as follows: Who are you? Whose wife or daughter are you? Who
is the man laying here? It appears you are lamenting for this dead body. Don’t
you recognize Me? I am your eternal friend. You may remember that many times in
the past you have consulted Me.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53: The
Brahmana continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately
recognize Me, can’t you remember that in the past you had a very intimate
friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as
enjoyer of this material world.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.54: My dear
gentle friend, both you and I are exactly like two swans. We live together in
the same heart, which is just like the Mānasa Lake. Although we have been
living together for many thousands of years, we are still far away from our
original home.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.55: My dear
friend, you are now My very same friend. Since you left Me, you have become
more and more materialistic, and not seeing Me, you have been travelling in
different forms throughout this material world, which was created by some
woman.
In understanding Srimad Bhagavatam
Canto 7 Chapter 1 Text 35 Purport one has to first understand that Jaya and
Vijaya caused an offence to Brahmanas and as a result were given two choices to
atone from their offence.
They could either take three births
in the material world as demons or they could take seven births as devotees.
They chose to be in the material body as powerful demons so they could get back
to Vaikuntha quicker. After all they were trapped in bodies that were under the
control of past, present and future.
Now they come from Vaikuntha under
Krishna’s compassion meaning they were given the opportunity to engage in
Krishna’s pastimes while in the material world as Demons, so when their offence
was atoned they were immediately re-established in their eternal original
svarupa in Vaikuntha back within the eternal presence of Krishna Consciousness.
It must be understood they new they made
a mistake by offending Brahmanas; at no point did they give up Krishna as we
have done.
In other parts of Srila Prabhupada’s
writings, he calls their offence as a fall down, this is why in the purport of
the Srimad Bhagavatam 7.1.35 Srila Prabhupada says “This very significant
question would be difficult for an ordinary person to answer, but Narada Muni,
being an authority, could answer it”.
Now those who are associates of the
Lord of course do not leave Goloka for the material dream or fall down AS LONG
AS THEY CHOOSE TO SERVE KRISHNA however, there are those, less than 10% of
Krishna jiva-tattva associates in Vaikuntha and Goloka, who DO choose to come
to this material world and forget Krishna, they are only interested in their
own exploits and want nothing to do with Krishna.
That can include any jiva-tattva
(marginal) associate of Krishnas in Goloka who no longer choose to be an
associate, any jiva-tattva can leave Goloka for the material creation, but most
choose not to make that mistake. The important point is THERE IS ALWAYS CHOICE.
They therefore think, dream or
imagine they fall - actually no falls from Vaikuntha because their nitya-siddha
body is perpetually fixed there within the eternal presence of Krishna’s
pastimes.
As the CC states all marginal living
entities are originally nitya-siddha and only the Vishnu-tattvas never forget
their position in Krishna lila. Some come to the material creation in Krishna’s
lila while others come to for fill their own selfish dreams.
As there are no killing of demons in
Vaikuntha, Krishna plays this role as His Vishnu expansion in the material
creation with all his nitya siddha jiva-tattvas and Vishnu-tattva associates
however, there are other jiva-tattva souls who choose to leave Goloka simply
because of their choice not to be with Krishna, THERE IS NO MATERIAL CAUSE FOR
THEM FORGETTING GOLOKA OR VAIKUNTHA OTHER THAN FREE WILL AND CHOICE.
Srila Prabhupada makes it clear in
the fourth canto of Srimad Bhagavatam and numerous lectures, letters and
morning walks we originate from Goloka.
Srila
Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature as
marginal living entities. We can misuse such independence
even in Goloka or Vaikuntha with out any material cause, it simply happens
because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent
(marginal) living beings.
This means a small minority, less
than 10% of jiva-tattva nitya-siddha souls in Vaikuntha or Goloka choose to
leave and become nitya baddha in the material world. For this purpose Krishna,
via His Maha-Vishnu expansion, creates the mahat-tattva (material creation) for
them.
The marginal living entities full
potential of loving selfless devotion to Krishna and His loving devotees is
based on individuality, independence and the right to choose; we never loose
that right to choose, not even in Vaikuntha. Surrender to Krishna and His pure
devotees do not mean to become mindless porns in Vaikuntha and ‘yes’ men/women
to Krishna.
No, everything in Vaikuntha is based
on reciprocal loving service even if it is a fact that we surrender selflessly
and unconditionally. The fact is that’s how Krishna also treats us. Having free
will and choice gives us the opportunity to give ourselves in our own unique
way. That choice is always there even in Goloka or Vaikuntha and must be there
if genuine love is to exist.
It is not that we first have to be
contacted by the modes of material nature to fall down from Goloka or
Vaikuntha. It’s all to do with a combination of choice and the sheer smallness
of the marginal living entity.
And even then due to that smallness
and choice, we only ‘think, imagine or dream’ we are fallen that we become
fallen. The fact is we never fall; our nitya-siddha body never leaves Goloka
Srila
Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha,
if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I
immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but
sometimes he may think that, “If I could be come the master.” They are thinking
like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become
God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking”.
Vipina
Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect
us from that desire?
Srila
Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says,
“You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not
do this”.
Vipina
Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from
thinking like that? ”
Srila
Prabhupada - “That means you lose your
independence”.
Srila
Prabhupada - “That is force, in Bengali it
is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love
me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So
Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver.
‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is
threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there
is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called
rape?” July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C
Regarding to how a nitya siddha in
Goloka can fall down to nitya baddha in the material world, Srila Prabhupada
explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature in Vaikuntha and
Goloka-Vrndavana.
We can misuse such independence even
in Goloka or Vaikuntha with out any material cause, it simply happens because
it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal)
living beings.
Maya is not the cause of ones fall
down from Vaikuntha, that is not possible she only exists in the mahat-tattva.
The cause of ones fall down is ones own independent desires of self importance
based on free will and choice.
One simply chooses to no longer serve
Krishna as their nitya siddha body. As a result, they eventually forget their
nitya-siddha body and leave Vaikuntha and enter the mahat tattva as their
nitya-baddha secondary self that is the sub-conscious non-Krishna conscious
condition of the marginal living entity.
it should of been made clear that the
entire universes of Krishna and His Vishnu-tattvas, jiva-tattvas,
Goloka-Vrndavana, Vaikuntha’s and the mahat-tattva (material creation) and the
impersonal Brahmajyoti are all collectively the Brahmajyoti or everything that
is.
The Vaikuntha’s were never created so
the word ‘creation’ cannot be used for Goloka-Vrndavana and the Vaikuntha
realm, nor can it be used to explain the marginal living entities
(jiva-tattvas) or Krishna and His unlimited Vishnu-tattva expansions.
The word creation can only apply to
the mahat-tattva material ‘creation’ because it has a beginning and end.
The ‘impersonal Brahmajyoti’ or the
impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky is actually a very small
minority of souls in their baddha-jiva inferior feature that becomes
established in that ‘impersonal’ dormant state due to the influence of being
covered and frustrated within the mahat-tattva that souls fall to and are
covered (material vessels that belong to the mahat-tattva) by when they choose
to no longer serve Krsna in Goloka or Vaikuntha.
In other words, when souls become fed
up with the material creation of changing material bodies or vessels, they can
escape this cycle of birth and death by either realizing their full potential
nitya-siddha body that is always in Goloka even while they ‘imagine’ themselves
to be in the mahat-tattva, or they can cease to desire bodily activity (after
much difficulty of casting off those subtle and gross material bodies) and
enter an inactive dormant state of consciousness that is within and part of
each marginal living entities capacity of expression, in this case inactivity.
The individual baddha-jivas who enter
this ‘consciousness’ are expressing the impersonal side of their nature and is
known as their impersonal Brahmajyoti feature. In other words the impersonal
Brahmajyoti is the dormant inactive characteristic of the ‘baddha’-jiva
So where this painting is misleading
is the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, is
NOT some place within the over all universes but is rather a state of inactive
consciousness ‘desired’ by the baddha-jiva aspect of the marginal living
entity. (That ultimately is also only a temporary condition because the
inherent nature of all marginal living entities is ‘activity’
Keep in mind the baddha-jiva
consciousness is the sub-conscious or rebellious state of the soul that ignores
ones Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha body or the full expression and potential
that is the make up of every of every marginal living entity
Those who believe the jiva originates
from some inactive state or from the Vraja River or the Body of Maha-Vishnu are
actually propagating Impersonalism. The real facts are that all marginal living
entities come from the pastimes of Krishna by their own foolish choice. This is
the teaching of Srila Prabhupada.
Darkness
cannot be left over in the presents of light because light dissipates all
darkness. In other words while there is light
(nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body), darkness (nitya-baddha condition) does
not exist.
This means that when one’s
‘awareness’ is AGAIN situated as the eternal presence of their Krishna
Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa body, the nitya-baddha sub-conscious darkness in
the material creation no longer exists.
Tatastha-sakti is just another name
of the jiva tattva or marginal living entity and those who are sakti tattva are
actually expansions of Vishnu tattva or Krishna's internal potency, they are
NEVER jiva tattva and of course can never fall down like the jiva tattva's can
if they choose. In the Caitanya Caritamrita so many associates of Lord Caitanya
are sakti tattva or expansions of Krishna. In the Pancha tattva only one soul
is jiva tattva
Radharani is Vishnu tattva calling
her nitya siddha is not right because she can never be nitya baddha - it's even
silly to suggest this, Vishnu-sakti-tattva are also expansions of Krishna and
it would be wrong to also call them nitya siddha even though some schools of
thought do in the Gaudiya math
understanding lila can be difficult,
at least for me. Vishnu expansions in another form doing austerity to attain a
position as Krishna's conjectural lover is very confidential knowledge and such
lilas are plenty in the Caitanya Caritamrita where so many Vishnu tattvas and
Vishnu-sakti-tattv, that are also Vishnu-tattvas, seemingly did austerity to be
with Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityananda -- it's all in the name of lila, that is
what the whole universe is for as far as Krishna is concerned. Krishna is just
having fun with himself and taking the jiva tattvas along for the blissful ride
So this only means there are two
meanings to nitya siddha - Although the nitya-siddha expansions of Krsna always
remain with Krsna - and then this - Srila Prabhupada - “The actual
constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha” Caitanya
Caritamrta Madhya 20.107 New York, July 13, 1976
Lord Krishna states that our
constitutional nature is that all marginal living beings are eternal servants
of the Lord. So to say that ‘conditioned’ souls have never been ‘unconditioned’
in Goloka-Vrndavana is incorrect.
When a marginal living being are in a
conditioned state (nitya-baddha) that doesn’t take away their eternal absolute
nature as a nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna who is forever fixed within the
‘eternal presence’ of Goloka Vrndavana: the rebellious marginal living entity
simply becomes overshadowed with the concept of past, present and future
instigated by free-will and choice putting them out of sync with the ‘eternal
presence’ of Goloka which is their natural home
As a result, they have now adopted
the relative perception of existence that places them within the mahat-tattva’s
bodily vessels, which are all the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. The jiva tattvas as
their nitya baddha condition ‘go through’ Maha Vishnu and are not from Him to
enter the mahat-tattva or material creation. This is important to understand.
As a result of this choice of
‘falling down’ from Goloka, the marginal living entity is no longer ‘aware’ of
Goloka or their nitya-siddha body that is perpetually situated in the ‘eternal
presence’ of Goloka. So technically the living entities nitya siddha body never
falls down, only their consciousness does as a ‘dream condition’ that enters
the ‘dreams’ of Maha Vishnu.
As in our case in the material world,
we are presently ‘eternally conditioned’ (nitya-baddha) because long, long,
long, long ago we made that choice to forget Krishna and simultaneously the
‘awareness’ of our nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) body we serve Krishna as.
And when again we achieve liberation from this
material world due to the mercy of pure devotee, we will enter Goloka AGAIN by
the method of becoming ‘aware’ of our genuine nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious
body that is always there in Goloka and become ‘eternally liberated’ or in
simple terms, we wake up from the MATERIAL DREAM.
No jiva tattvas originate from Maha
Vishnu, they may go through him but they certainly do not originate from him,
they also do not originate from a dormant state known as the impersonal
Brahmajyoti or impersonal Brahman either
Srila
Prabhupada – “Existence in the impersonal
Brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are
in the Brahman effulgence, they are also in the fallen condition. So there is
no question of falling down from a fallen condition”. - Letter, June 13, 1970.
From Srila Prabhupada’s teachings we
learn that the dormant impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, where souls are in
an individual slumber, is also a fallen state that one has entered previously
from the mahat-tattva (material creation)
Therefore no souls ‘originate’ from
the dormant characteristic of the Brahmajyoti, that is not possible because ALL
living entities originate directly from the pastimes of Lord Krishna in
Goloka-Vrndavana.
The technical term for the jiva-soul
that enters the mahat-tattva material creation and then the impersonal
Brahmajyoti after becoming fed up with material existence is the baddha-jiva
(The secondary condition of the marginal living entity, the original condition
of the jiva tattva is nitya-siddha in Goloka)
The baddha-jiva state in the
impersonal brahmajyoti is a dreamless dream or inactive condition of
consciousness that 'hovers' in the impersonal Brahmajyoti and exists in that
state ONLY while the baddha-jiva is 'inactive' in the impersonal Brahmajyoti
that is also a temporary condition of conscious awareness, eventually they fall
down from there to again take material vessels in the material world or mahat
tattva.
I’m aware how some schools of thought
in Hinduism like some in the Gaudiya Math incorrectly claim that the some
jiva-souls originally emanate from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, which, they
claim, is growing with a constant march of new jiva-souls.
They further incorrectly claim that
within the dormant characteristics of the Brahmajyoti, the immovability of
these inactive jiva-souls is ‘somehow’ disturbed and movement begins.
They then claim that from
non-differentiation, separation begins. From a bare expanse of standardized
consciousness, individual conscious components grow. Srila Prabhupada rejected
the nonsense idea that souls ‘originate’ from the impersonal Brahmajyoti from a
dormant state of consciousness.
To start with, the jiva souls are
never created because they have always been. Actually our perpetual origins are
directly from Krishna’s pastimes in Goloka because originally EVERY JIVA SOUL
is a selfless nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna within His pastimes.
We do not have a problem with Srila
Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s Books but we DO have problem with MIS-INTERPRETATIONS
from Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s books by most in the Gaudiya math.
In fact, Srila Prabhupada admonished
against taking any outside instructions.
From Srila Prabhupada’s Books,
letters, morning walks and classes does Prabhupada instruct us, he is the final
word on ALL past Acharays, only from Prabhupada we learn everything they preach
and all our comments, essays and preaching must be based on Srila Prabhupada’s
teachings above all else.
Even in understanding Vedic
Cosmology, Prabhupada found many Vedic Scholar’s translations totally useless
so what ever we find must be in line with Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, he is
giving ‘Sastra’ he learnt from his Guru, he is a true honest selfless ‘Sadhu’
and he is a bonafide ‘Guru’ who has done more to preach Krishna Consciousness
than all previous Acharays combined.
Srila Prabhupada’s teachings ARE the
combination of all the Acharays and his quotes, comments and mention of them is
all we need to know. There is a life time just reading Prabhupada’s Books and
hearing or reading all his lectures and morning walks, there is no need to
associate with other sangas other than ISKCON
Srila
Prabhupada - “Whatever is to be learned of the
teachings of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura can be learned from our books. There is
no need whatsoever for any outside instruction” Letter 73-12-25: Gurukrpa,
Yasodanandana
Acyutananda – “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.
He can return?”
Srila
Prabhupada – “If he likes he can return”.
Guru-kripa – “How is it that one can become envious of Krishna?”
Srila
Prabhupada – “You have got little
independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, God has
got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately,
because you are part and parcel, if he likes, he can return. That independence
has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krishna-bahirmukha
haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”.
(Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976)
Only a minority fall down from Goloka
and Vaikuntha and for them the mahat-tattva is created. No jiva souls originate
from an impersonal source or from some cleat sheet of consciousness as some
foolishly believe and teach.
Dr. John
Mize – “Did all the souls that were in the
spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or
are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall
down?”
Srila
Prabhupada – “No, there are majority, 90%,
they are always good. They never fall down”.”. Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
In this way, the 25% of the Spiritual
Sky that is material only caters for less than 10% of the jiva tattvas who
choose to leave Vaikuntha for the mahat tattva or material creation, more than
90% of jiva tattvas always ‘choose’ to remain in Vaikuntha or Goloka
Vrndavana.
Of course the many Sakti tattvas and
Vishnu tattvas expansions of Krishna never fall down and many, many individuals
in Goloka Vrndavan are in that category however, we are jiva tattva and can
choose to remain in Vaikuntha or leave for the mahat tattva creation of Maha
Vishnu
Acyutananda: 'But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never
returns.””
Prabhupada: But if he likes, he can return.
Acyutananda: He can return
Prabhupada: That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can
misuse that.… That misuse is the cause of our falldown. Room Conversation
February 19, 1976 Mayapur
Rather than placating the fall
position, Srila Prabhupada refutes the no-fall position. We can fall even after
returning back home, back to godhead.
From Srila Prabhupada’s Books,
letters, morning walks and classes does Prabhupada instruct us, he is the final
word on ALL past Acharays, only from Prabhupada we learn everything they preach
and all our comments, essays and preaching must be based on Srila Prabhupada’s
teachings above all else.
What ever we find must be in line
with Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, he is giving ‘Sastra’ he learnt from his
Guru, he is a true honest selfless ‘Sadhu’ and he is a bonafide ‘Guru’ who has
done more to preach Krishna Consciousness than all previous Acharays
combined.
Srila Prabhupada’s teachings ARE the
combination of all the Acharays and his quotes, comments and mention of them is
all we need to know. There is a life time just reading Prabhupada’s Books and
hearing or reading all his lectures and morning walks, there is no need to
associate with other sangas other than ISKCON
Ones fall down from Vaikuntha or
Goloka Vrndavana is due to free will and choice not maya, there is no material
cause for ones fall down from Goloka Vrndavana
Srila
Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha,
if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I
immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but
sometimes he may think that, “If I could be come the master.” They are thinking
like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become
God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking
Vipina
Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us
from that desire?
Srila
Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says,
“You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not
do this”.
Vipina
Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from
thinking like that? ”
Srila
Prabhupada - “That means you lose your
independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or
boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me,
otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? ”So Krishna does not want to become a
lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill
you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary,
good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why
one is called lover, another is called rape?” July 8, 1976 in Washington,
D.C
Srila
Prabhupada was very clear on this subject - “Formerly
we were with Krsna in His lila or sport” Letter to Madhudvisa Swam 1972
Srila
Prabhupada - “We have also come down from
Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita
on August 6, 1973)
Srila
Prabhupada - These spirit souls and all
spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha”. Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970
Srila
Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we
are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with
matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the
material atmosphere.” Original Hare Krsna album
Srila
Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha,
if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I
immediately fall down.”. July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C
Srila
Prabhupada - “Actually, you are not conditioned
(nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that
tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we
have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila
7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967)
Srila
Prabhupada - “You are liberated. You are
liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is
no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always
spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud (Maya), this is
called Maya."
Srila
Prabhupada - “Actually, you are not conditioned, you only think you are, you are thinking, just like in the dream, that a tiger is eating
you. But you were really never eaten by tiger because there is no tiger, it was all just a dream." (Letter to Madhudvisa
Swami, Melb Australia June 1972)
We have to realize that being separate marginal living entities (jiva-souls) also means the jiva-souls have the free will to voluntarily contribute in both the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana in their own unique way that actually expands one's relationship with Krsna in an atmosphere of unknown expectations that creates mystery and arouses curiosity and intrigue.
Without free will, how can there be genuine unique contributions of loving exchanges that can only exist in a "two-sided" reciprocal relationship?
Srila
Bhaktivinoda Thakura - “As long as the jiva-soul takes
full shelter of the Supreme Lord he remains a resident of the Vaikuntha planets or Kṛṣṇaloka. But when
his innate spiritual knowledge of the Lord is covered by forgetfulness, he is
placed outside the transcendental realm.” (Caitanya Siksamrita, Sanmod-ana
Bhasya-sloka-1)
Srila
Prabhupada - "So to go to God or Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The
spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material
body." (Hamburg,
Germany, June 22, 1974)
This is very clear
according to Srila Prabhupada, who rejects the 'impersonal Brahmajyoti origin claim that the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are originally in a dormant (inactive) state in the impersonal brahmajyoti.
Many today in 'Hinduism' follow that
misunderstanding and it appears to me, they have incorrectly used the word
'tatastha-sakti to describe this impersonal dormant origin state of the jiva, yes
the jiva-soul may be in a state of inactivity however, long, long before
being in that already fallen position he was with Krsna.
Srila
Prabhupada - “This material creation is
the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a
dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes-
Srila
Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur - “This material world is
created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the
spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” (SB, Canto 4 Ch 29 text 83 Purport)
Srila
Prabhupada - 'The actual constitutional position
of every living entity is nitya-siddha or eternally liberated, because God is
eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal.
So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are
different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sadhana-siddha.
By
following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master,
he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha or
eternally liberated. So, the Krsna consciousness movement
is to make the nitya-baddhas or eternally conditioned AGAIN nitya-siddha or
eternally liberated. It is a difficult task." (New York City lecture CC July 13, 1976)
