The living entities falling down to the material world - best explanation of all

The living entities "fall down into this material world" from Vaikuntha and NOT the Impersonal Brahman.

Srila Prabhupada - ''Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness''.

An in depth explanation worth reading.

The following Conversation took place in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples.

Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krishna, we have a perfect relationship with Krishna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krishna?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.”

Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire.

Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. You forced Krishna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?” Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy”. End of quote

Question - Is there a place in the Spiritual World from where we can never fall down from?

Answer - It is not based on a "place you can never fall down from" that will keep you in Vaikuntha, it does not work that way because it is based on ‘’your choice’’ and nothing else. If you were forced to stay there then how can there be love?

Remaining in Vaikuntha "eternally" is based on the conscious awareness of what the devotee wants as a unique selfless individual "loving" personal servant of the Lord.

Even in such selfless emotions of loving devotion, the jivatma NEVER loses that unique ability of free will and self expression where one is "personally" always aware they are choosing how to selflessly serve Krishna or the servants of the servants of Krishna.

The fact that one does not fall from God's personal Kingdom is your responsibility, not Gods, it is your choice, it is your free will to choose and nobody else including Krishna.

The fact is 90% of all living entities do not fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana because they "choose not to".

That "choice" is always with the marginal living entities or jiva.

How is this so?

The jivatma soul or marginal living entity has 78% of Krishna's quantities which puts them in the realm of having "a sense of independence, identity, personality, individuality and the ability to choose.

This means the jivatma has the ability to agree or not agree even with Krishna.

The sense of individuality allows the jivatma the right to choose Krishna or choose to be separate from Krishna.

Remember Maya and the material energy does not exist in Vaikuntha so that is unknown to the jivatma.

However, "free will, individuality, having independence, experiencing a unique sense of individual self worth and the ability to express all these qualities DOES exist in the makeup of the jivatma in Vaikuntha.

And if all those abilities are taken away, then we lose the ability to give and accept love, we become no better than a stone or mindless robot.

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence”. Conversation in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples.

No one can force you to stay in Vaikuntha, that choice must "always" be the jivatmas (our choice).

For love to truly exist with the jiva-tattva (jivatma) we MUST have the the right to choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at anytime.

And the fact is a small minority do choose to leave, regardless of how some have interpreted past Sages and Acharyas.

The fact is to say those who enter Vaikuntha will "never ever again fall down" IS true - ‘’for those who choose NOT to fall down".

In other words, if the jiva wants to leave they certainly can.

To make a blanket comment that "not even the leaves fall and leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana" seems to not take into consideration the free will of the jiva tattva.

These comments from past Sages and Acharyas that the jiva never falls down once in Vaikuntha may have been said for many reasons, to give faith among aspiring devotees and neophytes to encourage them to understand that their constitutional position IS to NEVER ‘’choose’’ to leave Vaikuntha and NEVER ‘’desire’’ to enter the material world once they are in or returned to Vaikuntha.

However to come to the material world is ultimately the jiva tattva's choice and Krishna does not interfere even though Krishna has promised there is no return to the material creation.

The fact is there is if the jiva tattva wants to return, this is Prabhupada's point here -

Acyutananda – “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns. He can return?”

Srila Prabhupada – “If he likes he can return”.

Guru-kripa – “How is it that one can become envious of Krishna?”

Srila Prabhupada – “You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krishna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”. (Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976) End of quote

For those who believe past Acharyas and sages meant that ''no one can ever fall down'' from Vaikuntha meant to address all souls in Vaikuntha, have not understood the variety of living entities in Vaikuntha and it is only a small minority of ONLY jiva tattva souls who do chose to leave.

They have NOT understood there are many different inhabitants of Vrindavana who never fall down by choice such as the Sakti Vishnu tattvas who are expansions of Krishna, they never fall down because they ARE simultaneously eternal associates and Krishna experiencing Himself in unlimited extended ways, so for them, choice does not exist in the same way for Vishnu-tattva's as it does for jiva-tattvas. 

And for over 90% of jiva tattva souls who do have the ability to choose, they also never fall down because they NEVER "choose" to fall down.

Devotee - “Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back”.

Srila Prabhupada - “No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, “Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man,” I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become. . . .” End of quote

However, there will always be a very small minority of only the jiva tattvas (not the Sakti tattva or Vishnu tattva "direct expansions"of Krishna) who misuse their ability  to "choose" and leave if they desire.

Free will is eternal even in Goloka and in fact without our ‘sovereignty as a living being’ to either forget or remember Krishna, then we would not have any individuality, no independent personality and no ability to love, we would be mindless ''yes'' drones like machines in a factory.

Srila Prabhupada - “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975

Srila Prabhupada – “You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krishna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”. (Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976) End of quote

Krishna has many different energies. Jiva is one, Matter is one, the consorts of the Lord are one.

Technically we are all Sakti tattva however there are different categories, we are the jiva tattva living entities known as the the ''marginal energy'' while others are Sakti tattvas and part of the ''internal potency or energy''.

The Sakti tattva and Vishnu tattva Personalities are ''the eternal inhabitants of Vrindavana who can never fall down or choose to forget Krishna because THEY are direct expansions of Krishna Himself and part of His internal energies or potency of unlimited expansions and associates.

For example the Pancha Tattva are a combination of Sakti tattva and Vishnu tattva Personalities with only one being jiva tattva.

Srila Prabhupada - ''Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, and Śrīvāsādi. Śrīvāsādi means jīva-tattva. The jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, viṣṇu-tattva, these are all tattvas. So Pañca-tattva. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is the supreme tattva, Kṛṣṇa. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. We are worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa combined''.Lecture on CC Adi-lila 7.5 -- Mayapur, March 7, 1974 End of quote

Sakti-tattva is not exactly Vishnu-tattva even though Sakti-tattva is also called Sakti-Vishnu-tattva. The correct understanding is that all of Krsna’s energies are under the broad category of Sakti-tattva.

Srila Prabhupada - ''There are viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva and śakti-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva is the Supreme Absolute Truth, jīva-tattva is part and parcel, and śakti-tattva is the energy of God''. (Lecture on SB 1.5.15 New Vrindaban, June 19, 1969)

Sakti tattvas, the energy of Krishna, are eternally occupied with their service to the Lord, such expansions have only the desire to please Krishna or His Vishnu expansion, they can never be covered by Maya and their concept of free will and independence is only to please Krishna or Vishnu as they are indirect and direct expansions of Godhead.

Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana are made up of many Sakti tattvas and Vishnu tattvas such as gopis, gopas and many, many others, there is also jiva tattvas (part and parcels) playing many roles in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrndavana as well, just like the Sakti Vishnu tattvas are.

In Goloka Vrindavana no one knows who is who, who is jiva tattva, who is sakti tattva or who is jiva tattva, they do not even know this little boy Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the cause of all causes.

As already explained, Sakti Vishnu tattvas can never fall down. Also the jiva tattvas can NEVER become Sakti tattvas or Vishnu tattvas.

And jiva tattvas can never lose their seperate individual independence from Krishna even though technically all living entities are Sakti tattva expansions of Krishna that are fully dependent on Krishna like the sun rays are expansions that emanate from the Sun.

Even though this is the case of being part and parcel of the Lord, the jivatma or jiva tattva still has "their own" sense of being a separate independent thinking individual from Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada - ''The words bṛhate namas te have been explained by Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura: bṛhate śrī-kṛṣṇāya.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa the maintainer of all and cause of all causes. 

We are "separate and none separate" from Krishna simultaneously.

There are many tattvas, such as viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva and śakti-tattva, but above everything is the viṣṇu-tattva, which is all-pervading.

This all-pervading feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is explained in Bhagavad-gītā (10.42), wherein the Lord says:

athavā bahunaitena
kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna
viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam
ekāṁśena sthito jagat

"But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."

Thus Kṛṣṇa says that the entire material world is maintained by His partial representation as Paramātmā. The Lord enters every universe as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu and then expands Himself as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu to enter the hearts of all living entities and even enter the atoms.

Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Every universe is full of atoms, and the Lord is not only within the universe but also within the atoms. Thus within every atom the Supreme Lord exists in His Viṣṇu feature as Paramātmā, but all the viṣṇu-tattvas emanate from Kṛṣṇa.

As confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (10.2), aham ādir hi devānām: Kṛṣṇa is the ādi, or beginning, of the devas of this material world—Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara. Therefore He is described here as bhagavate bṛhate. End of quote

So there are differences between different energies or expansions of the Lord. We the jiva tattva (jivatmas) are also expansions, the jiva tattvas have minute independence and "a sense of individual self that thinks separately from Krishna as a unique individual" and are called the ''marginal energy'' or jivatma.

The jivatma (jiva tattva) is different from direct expansion like the Sakti tattvas and Vishnu tattvas but both can be gopis, cowherd boys in Krishna lila.

Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana also have so many expansions of Krishna that it is mind boggling.

The jiva tattva can play the role of a gopa or gopi like a Sakti tattva and Vishnun tattva can but they can NEVER be Sakti Vishnu tattva who is Krishna Himself expanded as multiple personalities.

We (jiva tattva) can also choose, if we desire, play the roles Sakti vishnu tattvas also play however, we ALWAYS remain jiva tattva.

The jiva tattvas, unlike Sakti tattvas and Vishnu tattvas, can 'choose' to forget Krishna and enter the mahat tattva or material creation of Maha Vishnu as nitya baddha and think they are an independent god.

Vishnu tattvas and Sakti tattvas do not do that because they are direct expansion of Krishna and only carry out the will of God.

Our eternal constitution position and eternal spiritual body is already there in Vaikuntha waiting for us to wake up from this material dream and return back home back to Godhead.

Just like Jaya and Vijaya's eternal position as gatekeepers of Vaikuntha is always there waiting for their return from falling down into the material creation.

In Vaikuntha there is no concept of past and future time, only the ''individual awareness" of the "eternal presence'' of Krishna and being a dependent unique person and sense of the "self" that eternally exists there in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

This is how we know all the universe is not ''all'' one with an all pervading consciousness that plays out different roles while contained in different vessels, except for Krishna and His unlimited expansions, we are all individual jiva tattvas.

Therefore we never lose our independence and sense of self as an individual identity and being a "person"

Even a blade of grass, leaf, tree, clouds, rain drops, grains of sand and dirt or chair is an individual Person in Goloka.

Everything their is alive!

Of course in the material world our individuality becomes covered by many different species of material bodies but underneath it all the jivatma or jiva tattva is there as an individual.

Therefore it is very important we understand we have a "sense of independence and individuality as jiva tattva" this is what "marginal" means that makes us a unique "person"

To say you can never leave Goloka once there is true for most but not all because we can choose to miss use our free will.

Without having that choice, Prabhupada says we are no better than a stone, we would not be able to give love or receive love.

And yes, many devotees have found this subject’s true meaning in Sastra very difficult to understand and therefore call it inconceivable rather than attempting to understand it or believe others understand it.

That making "choices" (that allows one to increase their “unique” individual expression of love for Krishna) is always with the marginal living entity in Vaikuntha and to take that ability (the sense of self) away from the marginal living entity in Vaikuntha, the jivatma loses the individual ability to “give and accept love”.

This is because without free will we lose our sense of independence as a person of having a unique separate identity from all of other individual jivatmas, Vishnu tattvas, and Krishna Himself.

These are important points to understand.

We, the jivatma souls are independent thinking souls eternally but simultaneously part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna the cause of all causes meant to please the Lord as the unique “persons”.

Therefore, no one can force the jivatma to stay in Vaikuntha, that choice MUST be eternally yours (the jivatma)

Only Vishnu tattvas and Vishnu shakti tattvas never fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana because they are direct expansions of Krishna playing different roles in Krishna's pastimes and have 93% of Krishna’s qualities making them direct expressions of Krishna Himself.

Some Vishnu shakti tattvas are gopis including Radharani, gopas, parents, lovers etc many, many different personalities.

Krishna’s brother Balarama is Vishnu tattva and many others are playing different parts in Krishna Lila just like in Lord Caitanya’s pastimes where many are Vishnu tattva playing a roll also.

It is ONLY these residents of Vrindavana who NEVER fall down into forgetfulness.

And the fact is, more than 90% of jivatma’s also “choose” to stay in Vaikuntha and never enter the material world seeking selfish desires.

All jiva tattvas have only 78% of Krishna’s qualities can leave if they choose.

To be in Vaikuntha does not always guarantee you will stay there forever and never enter the material world.

Although as already explained, 90% never choose to forget Krishna because that is their desire and expression of free will.

Past Sages and Acharyas say the jivatma can never fall down once they are in Vaikuntha. Yes, the fact is the jivas are not suppose to leave or fall from Vaikuntha and most never do, but Prabhupada has further explained this subject matter also and has said that sadly some jivas DO choose to leave or fall from Vaikuntha however, he explains it is only a very small minority who foolishly make that choice, less than 10%.

Dr. John Mize – “Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?”

Srila Prabhupada – “No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down”. (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Let's clear one thing up, falling into the material world has absolutely nothing to do with maya or the material energy because maya does not and can not exist in Vaikuntha.

The jivatma’s do not even know Maya or the material energy exists, however, they do have "free will and the ability to choose" and are aware that this quality is “eternally” part and parcel of the jivatma’s makeup and exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

We do not lose our independence and sense of individual identity once we enter Vaikuntha, we are eternally independent living entities however, ALWAYS depend on Krishna personally, or from His many Vishnu expansions who provide all facilities in the material creation like Maha Vishnu.

In other words, we are always independent living entities but always depend on Krishna just like the Sun rays cannot exist without the Sun.

The fact is because we can "choose to be with Krishna or reject Him", then there can be increasing endeavours of loving exchange due to “choice”.

This is one of the reasons why the material universe was created - to give "reality" to that choice of rejecting and forgetting Krishna, so the living entity can go to another place outside Vaikuntha if they choose, to try and enjoy without being conscious of Krishna’s existence (that place where one can forget Krishna is called the material creation)

The marginal living entity or jivatma also must have the free will to choose Krishna instead of just being in Vaikuntha without no choice. The point made here is the position of the jivatma in Vaikuntha must be voluntary.

Who you love and who you choose to serve MUST be voluntary.

Many cannot understand these facts about the importance of free will, individuality, identity and the sense of self worth of being a unique person who can give selfless ever increasing love or service in their own way to Krishna.

These qualities are based on the importance of the individual's ability to have "choices" within their experiences as a individual person.

Once again to be truly free there must be the choice of Vaikuntha or its so called opposite where Krishna can be forgotten, the "material creation"

Without the jivatma’s being able to choose Krishna, or not choose Krishna, there can never be love, Prabhupada has said to force love is called rape.

Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could become the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?

Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C)

It takes only free will to live separately from Krishna and this choice has nothing to do with maya or material energy as explained above - it is simple free will that allows us to be a independent person and enter the material creation too.

To do that one is given material bodies, a subtle and gross body that covers the spiritual form.

In the material world, the jivatma has to put up with the gross material body always being in a state of decay and then eventually being forced to take another gross material body.

Also once in the material creation, you're on your own terms, you are responsible therefore karma begins as soon as you leave Vaikuntha.

No jivatma souls originate from the dormant Brahmajyoti, they often fall to it but have not come from there as Srila Prabhupada tells us.

Letter to: Revatinandana — Los Angeles 13 June, 1970

Srila Prabhupada - 'The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness.

Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.

The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down’’.

Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ‘’These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha”. (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” (Original Hare Krsna Happening record album New York 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down.” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada - ''The actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha, because God is eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal. So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sadhana-siddha. (New York lecture on Caitanya-caritamrta, July 13, 1976)

By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them. It is a difficult task'' - (New York lecture on Caitanya-caritamrta, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Mahā-Viṣṇu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”. (SB 4.29.83 Purport)

Once, an Indian political leader, Syamasundara Chakravarti, asked Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada.

“Why has the Lord granted such freedom to the jiva?”

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta told him, ”You are fighting for freedom. Don’t you know the value of freedom? Devoid of freedom, the soul is only matter.”

Freedom offers us the alternative to do right or wrong. Once, Gandhi told the British authorities, ”We want freedom.”‘ They replied, “You are not fit to have self-government. When you are fit, we shall give it to you.”

But finally, he told them, “We want the freedom to do wrong.” So, freedom does not guarantee only acting in the right way; freedom has its value independent of right and wrong.

Free will is only absolute with the Absolute Truth. Because we are finite our free will is infinitesimal. The possibility of committing a mistake is there. Our first choice was to dominate and so, gradually we have entered the world of domination.

As a result of this first action, everything else has developed.

So, in different ranks the species have been divided from the demigods down to the trees and stones. And watery bodies, gaseous bodies, anything that we find here has evolved in that way.

The activating principle in any form of embryological development is the soul, and from the soul, everything has evolved.” End of quote

Srila Prabhupada makes our "original position" with Krishna very clear.

And yes, maya cannot be blamed for our fall down from Vaikuntha in any way because she, in her role as the personification of material energy, does NOT exist in Vaikuntha, nothing material can exist there.

But free will does and always will exist in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

Therefore "we" are responsible for our choices and actions.

Srila Prabhupada on the other hand chose to come here to serve Krishna's plan to attract the fallen souls in the material universe back home back to Godhead.

Many devotees also come here to preach Krishna Consciousness.

There are three ways to come here, as a devotee who preaches, as a devotee who plays the part as a great demon like Jai and Vijai the gatekeepers of Vaikuntha, and those who "choose" to just forget and give up Krishna's association and do their own thing.

Also one can never have material desires in Vaikuntha because Maya does NOT exist there.

Maya cannot be blamed for tempting us and causing our fall down from Vaikuntha in any way because she, in her role as the personification of material energy, does NOT exist in Vaikuntha.

Nothing material can exist there.

But ''free will'', ''independence'' and ''individuality'' does and always will exist in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana. We therefore leave because of free will and the ability to choose to accept or reject Krishna.

As an individual ''person'' endowed with independent thought and identity, we are able to make such chooses.

What does the majority of people think being a "PERSON" really means after you surrender to Krishna? Do they think it is becoming some "yes man or women" of Krishna in His Kingdom where one becomes a mindless none thinking denier of the "individual self" who has unique qualities that makes you an individual? Do they think surrender means we give up our individuality? Sadly, so many have no idea what real "personalism" is which is a word tied to individuality.

The idea of "don't think just do what your told" is impersonalist nonsense because it denies ''you'' to use your own abilities and talents to contribute something unique to your personality that no one else may have.

So no, "you" DO NOT give up your independent individuality and sense of self worth and esteem to be fully surrendered and "dependant" on Krishna, maintaining that individuality is part of surrendering.

In fact in Goloka your individual independence and dependence on Krishna go together side by side increasing simultaneously at the same time and is always expanding in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

It takes spiritual intelligence to understand what real surrender is, and that includes understanding ‘’you’’ are eternally an independent individual person with your own sense of "individual self" separate from all other individual jiva souls.

Although Krishna always accompanies all jiva tattva souls as a friend and witness to the jivatmas individual choices and actions because we are eternally parts and parcels of the Lord.

Please read the above essay again, it explains we are all "unique individual persons" who are endowed with independent qualities allowing one to eternally give "THEIR OWN" best to Krishna.

The jiva tattva is not part of an "all one programmed none thinking impersonal collective" within God's Kingdom, no, that is a description of what hell is like.

Impersonalism means believing that in Vaikuntha we give up our independence and individuality and become part of an "all one collective consciousness"

Living an impersonal existence is to be devoid of individual thought that does not allow personal contributions that makes ''you'', who you really are, as a person, as Krishna's eternal servant, as a unique living entity who can contribute the best of ''their'' individual abilities to Krishna.

On the other hand personalism means the individual jiva must be able to grow and flourish as an independent living being giving  their own personal contributions of devotional service to Krishna.

To ''deny'' the jiva tattva's ''individuality'' and ''independent sense of identity'' is the hell "real" Krishna devotees fear.

Many have an impersonalist idea about what Vaikuntha is like and do not even know it.

Only when the living entity desires not to be with Krishna do they enter the material world and realize Maya's existences.

Paramahamsa - “But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return.

Srila Prabhupada - “There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is”.

Paramahamsa - “If we want”.

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.

Paramahamsa - “So we can come to the spiritual world and return?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.

Paramahamsa - “Fall down?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go.” Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness.

Therefore "we" are responsible for our choices and actions.

So the conclusion is Srimad Bhagavatam explains the fall down of the jiva from Vaikuntha found in the 4th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam where the Supreme Lord is disguised as a brahmana;

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4.28.53,

''The brāhmaṇa continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world''.End of quote 

Srila Prabhupada answered philosophical questions from leaders and expected them to teach the correct understanding to devotees in general. 

Several of the most profound answers regarding our fall from Vaikuntha were written to Jagadisa dasa when he was engaged as Temple president for Toronto. 

Letter to Jagadisa Prabhu, 4/25/1970.

Srila Prabhupada – ''Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence''. End of quote

Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970 

Srila Prabhupada – Regarding your several questions: Where are the spirit souls coming from that are taking microbe bodies? It is not a matter of any particular body. These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no “ NEW” soul. “New'’ and “old'’ are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth how there can be new soul''. End of quote

Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970

Srila Prabhupada - “Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence. 

But his relationship with Krishna is never lost, simply forgotten by the influence of maya so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new'' End of quote 

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krishna Loka. When one forgets Krishna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krishna he is liberated". (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969) 

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going". (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes) 

From Your aspiring servant Gauragopala dasa ACBSP

All material bodies originate from the dreams of Maha-Visnu, while all jiva-souls originate from Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha (the spiritual worlds) No jiva-souls originate from Maha-Visnu but instead take shelter of Him after leaving the spiritual world.

Material bodily vessels come from the dreams of Maha-Visnu and are therefore a permanent fixture or 'post' in the mahat-tattva, or the material energy's roadway  of "past, present and future" that is traversed by an unlimited number of jiva-souls.

Maha-Visnu's dreams are eternal and exist above the material energies movement of material time, therefore His "dreams" are always available for "hire" by the visiting jiva-souls from Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana who choose to enter the material creation.

Srila Prabhupada - "When the jiva-souls enters the material world, they must "hire" a suitable material body off Maha-Visnu." (Lecture on BG New York City 1966)

Everything in the material creation is owned by Maha-Visnu and the visiting jiva-souls receive their material bodily vessels and fascilities from Him. 

After all, all material vessels belong to Maha-Visnu and the jiva-souls experience His dreams that are simultaneously in sync with the jiva-soul's desires.

In the material creation these jiva-souls are known as nitya-baddha, meaning they are eternally conditioned under the influence of material energy or Maya and are now covered by a temporary material bodily vessel.

And in the spiritual worlds of Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha the jiva-souls are known as nitya-siddha or fully Krsna conscious.

Free will allows the individual jiva-souls to choose to be either nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned) or nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)

Srila Prabhupada - "The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity (jiva-soul) is nitya-siddha." (CC, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - ''By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them back home. It is a difficult task.'' (New York lecture on CC, July 13, 1976)

In this way the dreams of Maha-Visnu are a permanent back drop to the mahat-tattva or material energy's past, present and future. 

Srila Prabhupada  - "Arjuna can see everything that exists in any part of the universe. Kṛṣṇa gives him the power to see anything he wants to see, "past, present and future". Thus by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna is able to see everything." (BG 11.7 purport)

How past, present and future exist simultaneously as a blue-print (which means an entire roadway from beginning, middle and end) within the dreams of Maha-Visnu.

Bhagavad-gītā Ch 11 text 7-

"O Arjuna, whatever you wish to see, behold at once in this body of Mine! This universal form can show you whatever you now desire to see and whatever you may want to see in the future. Everything — moving and nonmoving — is here completely, in one place."

Srila Prabhupada - "No one can see the entire universe while sitting in one place. Even the most advanced scientist cannot see what is going on in other parts of the universe. But a devotee like Arjuna can see everything that exists in any part of the universe. Kṛṣṇa gives him the power to see anything he wants to see, past, present and future. Thus by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna is able to see everything." (BG Ch 11 text 7)

There is still a lot more to learn about the movement of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls), we have only scratched the surface in understanding Vedic texts in the short 55 years since Srila Prabhupada made his valuable contribution to the Western World in 1965.

The movement of time is eternal while this temporary material universe exists.

Yes, it's a paradox because everything is in a state of decay or decomposition in the material creation under the movement of material time's past, present and future but has no effect on Maha-Visnu.

In other words, Maha-Visnu's "dreams" are separate (and above) the material decaying influence of time (past, present and future), therefore His dreams are a permanent roadway "above" the temporary decomposing influence of the material energies movement of space and time.

Only when Maha-Visnu's dreams are activated within the material  creation, by the movement of past, present and future, does the temporary decaying nature of the material creation start on the bodily vessels and its surroundings that came from Maha-Visnu's library of dreams.

All material bodily vessels or containers are part and parcel of material time and space, a permanent fixture within Maha-Visnu's dreams.

However, only when the jiva-soul chooses to enter a material body from Maha-Visnu's dreams, and become the passengers in those material bodies within the material energy, does the temporary decaying effect on the material bodily vessels begin.

This is because now a dreams from Maha-Visnu has been actived by a jiva-soul and placed under the movement of material time or past, present and future which means impermanence and a progression of decomposition.

This is how entering the material  creation works. 

As soon as the jiva-soul enters a material body from Maha-Visnu's dreams immediately the temporary decaying aspect of that material body it activated, but only AFTER being "hired" from Maha-Visnu's "library of dreams."

The individual living entities or jiva-souls exists restricted to a material bodily vessel given to them by Maha-Visnu according to their independent desires and the reactions (karma) to past pious and impious activity in a previous material human bodies.

Past, present and future in the material creation exist simultaneously? How this occurs is explained above.

Because of the independent desires of the individual marginal living entity (jiva-soul), they can stay in the material creations cycle of repeated birth and death for an almost eternity.

In fact they can stay for so long that the arrangement of material energy in the material creation would eventually repeat itself over and over again over that eternity.

This is simple to understand, over an eternity the combinations of material energy would be exhausted until again it begins repeating itself, actually this is what "eternity" does.

There is no harm in philosophical speculation as long as we do not deviate from sastra, how else are we to learn?

Many have asked, "could the past activities of Arjuna still be happening today somewhere in the universe with another jiva-soul playing that part?"

Due to the past, present and future happening simultaneously, well could his bodily vessel also be a 'post' like Brahmas?

Meaning only those individual marginal living entities or jiva-souls who are qualified can also experience that relationship with Kṛṣṇa while in that vessel playing the part of Arjuna.

If this is true, the material bodily vessels are a permanent pathway or roadway the visiting jiva-soul chooses to go down experiencing its beginning, middle and end under the movement of material time's past, present and future.

Therefore unlimited batches of individual jiva-souls can choose the same permanent roadway too and possess that material bodily vessel from the dreams of Maha-Visnu.

There is no repetition or reoccurrence of the material universe there is only the permanent roadways (material bodily vessels) "hired" from Maha-Visnu so the jiva-souls can enter into.

Unlike the material energy, the spiritual energy is made up of Krsna's variety of individual living entities or expansions known as Visnu-tattva, Siva-tattva and jiva-tattva.  

The jiva-souls or jiva-tattva living entities have 78.125% of Krsna's qualities having 50 of Krsna's 64 attributes and have their independence and free will that allows them to have their own personality separate from Krsna's Personality.  

The Visnu-tattva more direct expansions of Krsna and almost no different as God have 93.75% of Krsna's qualities having 60 of Krsna's 64 attributes.  

Then there is Siva-tattva who is in a league of his own in between Visnu-tattva and jiva-tattva having 84.375% of Krsna's qualities having 55 of Krsna's 64 attributes.

Therefore unlike the material energy that is all one energy in its original state, the spiritual energy is NOT all one, it is made up of a variety of individual living entities as a spiritual bodily  form that includes the jiva-souls.  

Krsna is the Supreme individual Person as a spiritual bodily form with 2 arms, two legs etc as His eternal appearance.

All marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in their original position (bodily form), are also in Krsna's image Srila Prabhupāda explains here.

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes, they are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; so they become flower there. If I want that, to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna and become flower, voluntarily, and he can change from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB 6.1.1-4, Melb, May 20, 1975)

The material energy makes up all the material bodily shells, vessels or containers that the jiva-souls are in, are all one, but NOT the jiva-souls who are eternally individual life forms. 

For example when the material body we are in wears out and decays, it breaks down and merges back into the "oneness of material energy".

Only the jiva-soul never decays and eternally remains an individual person.

All the material bodily vessels that the jiva-souls hires from Maha-Visnu's dream, are a permanent fixture in His dreams that are eternally available to those jiva-souls who foolishly choose to enter the material creation.

Srila Prabhupada always encouraged us to have personal realizations.

Keep in mind, the 'dreams' of Maha-Visnu are mind boggling and very complex, and if Arjuna could view past, present and future simultaneously, it only means they all exist simultaneously as he saw it.

I have not found anything on this subject to verify or deny these realizations but this would also mean time travel is possible because the past and future already exist like the beginning, middle and end of a roadway already exists.

However, it would impossible to change the past or future as it is fixed like the roadway is fixed and already built.

One can only travel through what is already there, what already exists like travelling on that road (bodily pathway) that already exists.

Another example is just like when one rewinds a video tape, the contends captured will always be the same at every stage on the tape.

Another explanation is many believe the material body we are now in is a 'post', meaning it is always available for "hire" from the library of Maha-Visnu's dreams. 

HERE HERE HERE HERE

time and space itself is recorded on the eternal level in the material universe and we can take our next birth in a bodily vessel that has already existed in past time, present time or future time.

That means when we choose a bodily vessel, the pathway of that body is already existing in another time zone because each material body is a permanent fixture of this material universe known as the maha-tattva.

What I am trying to say here is all the 'dreams' of Maha-Visnu are all happening 'now' which means past, present and future exist simultaneously and we can move into any bodily vessel that exists in the past, present or the future.

The material energy is all one but NOT the life force that is individual units as Prabhupada has taught us.

This is important to understand as there are many impersonalists who believe there is one all pervasive life force that moves through all material bodily species.

Their ideas are wrong and these ideas has nothing to do with such impersonalism.

In the material creation everything already exists like a long roadway already exists.

Similarly the pathway or roadway of the material bodily vessels, gross or subtle, that we possess, like the roadway, is already carved out and we are simply passengers on that roadway in that bodily vessel container for its journey.

In other words, one who worships the rich and famous can take birth in the material body they worship after being trained up to be qualified to take that birth which in itself would take many, many, many births just for the opportunity to be famous for one insignificant life time.

What a ignorant selfish waste of time.

If those souls in those material vessels knew what they had to go through to attain that famous bodily materialistic existence, they would have second thoughts about seeking material fame and wealth on this planet or the heavenly planets.

Just like one can take the 'post' of Lord Brahma if they are qualified.

So could all materials vessels be 'posts like Brahmas?'

Yes I believe so.

Usually the most pious living entity in this material universe can take up the post of Lord Brahma when the next universe manifeasts.

In the same way; we all take a material bodily vessel according to our pious and impious activities or karma.

All individual living entities perceive time as a chain of events moving through past, present and future.

However, from above, like a journey on a road where one sees the beginning of one's journey to the end, could mean "materially" that all past, present and future exist together like every point on the journey of a roadway does.

Conclusion

The concept in the above essay is suggesting all material pathways always exist allowing others jiva-souls to also traverse the same roadway.

What is said above in this essay is that all material bodily vessels we are in are the property of Maha-Visnu that can only be "hired" from Him.

From Maha-Visnu's dreams, every senerio conceivable is already existing, meaning from His point of view, all past, present and future eternally are existing as Arjuna experienced.

Maha-Visnu's library of dreams are similar to a "costume shop" full of many different costumes (bodily pathways) one can choose to hire from Maha-Visnu and enter.

Every jiva-soul who enters the material creation must first go this so costume shop (the dreams of the sleeping Maha-Visnu) and "hire" a particular material bodily roadway that matches their desires for entering the material creation.

Maha-Visnu owns all such material vessels that are part and parcel with everything else in the material creation He is dreaming.

Therefore, those who have chosen to enter the material creation, must go to Maha-Visnu's dreams and "hire" a material body from His dreaming.

It is these material bodies (from Maha-Visnu's dreams) all jiva-souls must choose from just like one chooses a costumes from a Fancy dress store.

Regarding eternal associates of Krsna like Arjuna.

The fact is, Arjuna is always with Krsna somewhere in the material creation, in innumerable different material universes existing inside each Brahmanda universal shell at the same time.

Therefore, there are many jiva-souls playing the part of Arjuna Prabhupada has explained, why not, he has said.

Also a jiva-soul using their full potential of 78.125% of Krsna's qualities, can expand themselves into many different material bodies but be just the one jiva-soul in up to 8 material bodily vessels.

This is achieved because the one jiva-soul expands himself into up to eight different material bodily vessels that are all controlled by just one jiva-soul.

What about Lord Brahma? 

Each Lord Brahmas in his universe material universes, is a different jiva-soul than all the other Brahmas, they are NOT all the one jiva-soul.

So in every Lord Brahma's body there is a different jiva-soul every time a new material universe is created.

Actually it's the same for all material bodies because they are all 'posts' in the material creation, all "hired" from the dreams of Maha-Visnu.

Therefore all Brahmas are NOT the same jiva-soul, there are millions of different individual jiva-souls playing the role of Brahma, Arjuna, the demigods and within all other material bodily forms.

Srila Prabhupada in Melbourne July 1974

Srila Prabhupada in Melbourne July 1974

Gauragopala dasa Acbsp with Srila Prabhupada 

Remembering Srila Prabhupada

The Hare Krishna Movement, The Positive Alternative. An Australian Pioneering pastime. 

This is the story of one young teenager who eventually became a devotee of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna by first going into the main Cathedral in Melbourne to pray to Jesus in February 1972.

When this young man entered the Church as a last resort to find some meaning and purpose to life, he went down on his knees in total helplessness and, with tears in his eyes, prayed to Jesus.

“Please use me in your service, in your plan, my life is now useless, it is better you use me in your plan to spread God Consciousness”

He prayed like this for about an hour, then to his surprise, a young Hare Krishna devotee in saffron robes walked in the Church (Syamananda dasa is a brilliant artist who was admiring the various paintings there).

This young man was very moved by the devotee’s simplicity and knew the mumbling he was hearing must be like the rosary, yes, he was chanting the names of God, the Hare Krishna mantra.

This young man took this as a gift and message to his prayers from Jesus, who was showing him the way.

This young man was amazed and without knowing much about Krishna except for his previous association with Upananda dasa now Avadhoot Maharaj some eight months earlier in Sydney Temple where he would read KRSNA BOOK to him while he cooked for Radha Gopinath, he now had tears in his eyes seeing this young devotee and remembering his association in Sydney.

He never took his eyes off Syamananda dasa. When the devotee left, the young man followed him out and watched what he thought was one of Gods angles, walk up the street.

The young man then walked no more than ten yards up Swanston st, Melbourne when a bubbling young girl in her mid teens approached him in a beautiful sari with flowers in her hair “Hari Bol’’ she said, then continued

”I’m with the Hare Krishna Movement and here is our magazine Back to Godhead, we are having a love feast tomorrow, come along and experience the ecstasy of Krishna Consciousness!''

This young man was blown away, as they used to say back then, he was thrilled and truly believed Jesus had answered his prayers.

Probably the most astonishing thing was when he turned up the next day (February 18th 1972); it was Lord Caitanya’s appearance day one of the most auspicious days in the Krishna Conscious calendar.

Back in those days we went by the date in Srila Prabhupada's Book ''The Teachings of Lord Caitanya'' because that is all the information we had. The fact is every year it is a different date, the actually date for 1972 was the 29th February.

All he new is it was Lord Caitanya's appearance day on the 18th of February because everyone told him this and that he was there on a very auspicious day.

Anyway he then went on to play the part of Haridasa Thakur in a play (because he had a scraggly beard) where Lord Nityananda was hit on the head with a clay pot.

Lord Caitanya (played by Kurma dasa instructed Nityananda Prabhu (played by Ajita dasa) and Haridasa Thakur (played by the young man who only the day before was praying in a Church for direction from Jesus) to go to everyone’s house in Nadia and request them to chant Krishna’s name.

The two great devotees eagerly set forth and began to knock on each and every door with the request, “please chant Krishna’s name, worship Krishna and teach others about Krishna.” They were happily received by the pious people, while the envious would blaspheme them.

Completely unconcerned by favourable or unfavourable reactions they proceeded around the town. In Nadia there lived two very sinful brothers called Jagai played by Upananda dasa now Avadhoot Maharaj and Madhai (Played by Sanak dasa – Stavros Vergis) Jagai and Madhai were born in pious Brahman families however; due to bad association they had become meat eaters, drunkards, thieves and arsonists.

There was no crime that they had not committed, including the most abominable sin of killing cows and Brahmans. The entire town was terrified of these two persons who seemed to be the very personification of all sinful activities.

On the day Nityananda Prabhu (played by Ajita dasa) and Haridasa Thakur (played by the young man) were moving in the town, these two brothers, completely intoxicated were alternatively fighting and embracing each other. After observing them for some time Nityananda Prabhu compassionately decided to deliver them and thus approached them.

Despite the warnings of the town people Lord Nityananda and Haridasa Thakur, approached the two drunkards instructing them to chant the holy name of the Lord.

Hearing these words the two sinners looked up and seeing the two saintly figures roared in anger. They leapt up and ran to catch the two sannyasis. The two devotees fled at the sight of the attacking brothers.

Apparently terrified they shouted, “Krishna! Save us!! Govinda!,” and ran. (The young man remembers clearly Arjita and himself doing this)

The two brothers wandered off in their drunken condition along the banks of the Ganga where Caitanya Mahaprabhu bathed. Constantly drunk, they started harassing and terrorizing the devotees.

Eventually Nityananda and Haridasa went to the Ganges to see Lord Caitanya (played by Kurma dasa) however the two brothers again accosted them. On seeing Lord Nityananda, Madhai (played by Sanak dasa) became furious and struck Him with a broken earthen pot.

When Jagai (played by Upananda dasa now Avadhoot Maharaj Maharaj) saw the blood flowing from the wound, he became compassionate and restrained his brother.

While Nityananda Prabhu patiently stood, looking at the brothers with compassion, tolerating the pain and humiliation, Haridasa ran to tell Caitanya Mahaprabhu about the incident. (Yes, the young kept repeating his lines for this part and kept repeating the name of Lord Caitanya so he would not forget)

Hearing that Nityananda Prabhu had been hurt by the brothers, Caitanya Mahaprabhu ran towards them with the intention to kill them.

He summoned His chakra which looked like death personified to the two terrified brothers.

However Nityananda Prabhu quickly intervened and begged Caitanya Mahaprabhu to stop. He reminded Him of His mission to kill the sinners by saturating them with love of Godhead. Thus appeased the Lord took back His chakra.

Nityananda Prabhu told Caitanya Mahaprabhu that it was Jagai who had saved Him from further harm at Madhai’s hand. Hearing this Caitanya Mahaprabhu said to Jagai, “By protecting Nityananda you have purchased Me.

You may ask any desire you have in your heart. From today on you will have pure love and devotion for Krishna” Hearing this Jagai fell at the feet of the two Lords and grasping the feet of Caitanya Mahaprabhu wept.

Seeing the wonderful transformation in his brother, a remorseful Madhai begged for the mercy of the Lord. However, since he had committed the worst of all offences, that of attacking a Vaishnava, the Lord did not even consider all his pitiful pleas for mercy.

Only after Madhai grasped the feet of Nityananda Prabhu and received His mercy did Caitanya Mahaprabhu agree to deliver Madhai also.

That night the young man who took directions from Jesus, joined the Temple and and shaved up that night done by Sanak dasa and he eventually become initiated by Srila Prabhupada.

To this very day he is thankful to Jesus who directed him to Srila Prabhupada who in turn began teaching him about Krishna’s pastimes.

That young man was me.

Remembering Srila Prabhupada the best days of my life.

When we all went to meet Srila Prabhupada in April 1972 at Melbourne Airport, the first thing I noticed was he had a distinct golden aura around him that stood out from all others; his wonderful skin glowed and caught the attention of everyone in the Airport lounge, he was so happy to see his disciples.

I handed him a big red rose, he took the rose off me and with a big smile, taped me on the head with his cane. I had tears in my eyes; it was such a special moment to see my Spiritual Master.

Later many devotees gathered around me asking what it felt like to be tapped on the head by Prabhupada with his cane.

Those days were very remarkable. So kind and merciful is Srila Prabhupada, who gives even the most degraded a chance to become Krishna Conscious. Most of us were just teenage boys and girls back then, sincere seekers of truth.

I also remember the program at the Melbourne Town Hall meeting in April 1972 and the wonderful kirtan Srila Prabhupada led. It was remarkable; everyone was totally fixed on hearing Srila Prabhupada chant Jaya Radha Madhava, we all danced in total ecstasy. Never before or since have I heard such a beautiful kirtan.

When we all returned to the Temple at 14 Burnett Street, St. Kilda. (It is a place of pilgrimage and I still go there at least once a year to remember Prabhupada.) I was assigned to stay out in the front of Prabhupada’s room and even sleep there after the programs we attended.

My job was to bring Prabhupada prasad, clean clothing ready for the next morning and guard his room. Some amazing conversations went on in Prabhupada’s room. Some nights he would call devotees in and preach to the early hours of the morning.

The following night we went to a Franciscan Monastery. As Srila Prabhupada made his way to the monastery, he and his disciples were greeted by the monks and a long table full of different fruits. This was very artistically arranged and Prabhupada was very pleased.

I immediately went and preached to a middle aged monk, however stopped and went and sat down in front of Prabhupada with many other devotees. 

I then saw Prabhupada call over Vegavan Prabhu, who then came and taped me on the shoulder. He whispered in my ear, 

“Prabhupada wants you to continue preaching to that monk, such preaching is more important than even associating with the Spiritual Master.” Wow, so I got back up and went back to preaching to the monk.

Back then, Srila Prabhupada did not eat till after coming back from a program. He would then eat a hearty meal of prasadam while listening to a recording of his lecture.

Afterwards Prabhupada would discuss Krishna Consciousness with Syamasundara das, his secretary, Nanda Kumar das, his personal servant and an excellent mridanga player, and Hanuman dasa.

There was only four of us in the room. I stayed in the room for about an hour and listened to them discuss the Town Hall program. Prabhupada found Hanuman a very humorous character. Hanuman was also very excited about taking sannyasa off Srila Prabhupada on the following Sunday.

The next morning, while I was half awake out at the front of Srila Prabhupada’s room, I noticed two small feet gently walk past me without making even the slightest sound, I sat up immediately and paid my obeisances.

Prabhupada was a little jolted on his way to the bathroom by my obeisances and said softly to me, ‘Hare Krishna not so loud’. Over the years Prabhupada always acknowledged me. When I drove the Hare Krishna Temple bus, he asked me if it was mechanically sound. The bus could never go faster than 60 mph.

In April 1972 before the explosion of devotees in Australia, when Prabhupada came to Melbourne, there was only 12 of us living in the Temple, for five days we had very close association with Prabhupada, every day I went to his room with his nicely ironed clothing and stayed sometimes for hours. You see, there were not that many devotees around, there was more in Sydney at this time, about 25. Those early days I relish.

I remember one time when one devotee Dhoumya dasa threw water over me in play and I chased him through the Temple running past Srila Prabhupada’s room, he heard us run past and came out to find out what was going on, he said to Syamasundara,

''Who was that running past?''

Prabhupada walked up the hall and went into a room finding me wrestling with Dhoumya who was trying to hide in a cupboard, on seeing Prabhupada we immediately paid our obeisances.

Prabhupada immediately started laughing.

It was at 83 Hereford Street Glebe Temple near the Sydney Uni in July 1972 we began our preaching mission up North. There were 16 of us, boys and girls on the double Decker Bus.

We had written in big letters on the side ”The Hare Krishna Movement, The Positive Alternative” spreading the mission of Lord Caitanya for the first time on Australian soil.

In July 1972 we left Sydney Temple for the trip of a life time we came to believe that we had probably taken us thousands of life times to achieve such a privilege. 

We were on the very first preaching mission to every Towns and Villages around Australia.

The devotees on this first travelling preaching mission were:

Madhudvisa Swami, Caru (only came part of the way) Balarama, Chittahari, Yasomatinandana, Dvaipayana, the cook, Krsna Caitanya (Ted Spencer who the previous year was the world champion for surfboard riding), Kuntiboja, Kainaram Srngi (now Muralidhar das) (meet up with in Cairns) Krishna Prema (meet up with in Cairns) And me Gauragopala, I shared Bus driving duties with Chittahari and Balarama

The ‘boys’ (because that’s what we were back then) lived in the Brahmacari quarters, which were the bottom deck of the bus (except for the bus drivers who had a private space upstairs), while the second deck (upstairs) was the Brahmacharini or girls quarters, they are:

Ambika, Kamarupa (who joined us in Cairns) Sukla devi-dasi and Elayne Mitchell also joined us there in the Commune at kuranda near Cairns
Most of us were teenagers back then except for Madhudvisa Swami, Balarama, Chittahari and Krsna Caitanya dasa.

Krsna Caitanya dasa was the great Ted Spencer, who famously declared –

“When I surf, I dance for Krishna”, urged on in his heats by a full Hare Krishna cheer squad.” (Bells Beach, Australia – the Age Newspaper).

Other famous surfers like Nat Young also spent time with us when we arrived in Brisbane.

Unknown to me due to being on the road, my initiation letter from Prabhupada dated July 10th 1972 had arrived in Sydney that I would not pick up until after our Bus trip up North.

It was on this bus trip a devotee continued suggesting we came from the impersonal Brahmajyoti that started the ‘origin of the jiva’ controversy a few months earlier.

That idea was quickly rejected in a letter from Prabhupada called ‘Crow-And-Tal-Fruit’ Logic that eventually was sent to all Temple Presidents in Australia. Madhudvisa Swami quote this to us –

Srila Prabhupada – ‘’Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition’’. Letter to: Revatinandana — Los Angeles 13 June, 1970

It was a hot topic back then in 1972 but Prabhupada was personally present to guide us

We all new this was a very auspicious time and that the teachings of Srila Prabhupada we were hearing, was the revelation of a long kept secret and explanations that told us about the universe and it’s creator Lord Krishna.

On the way we chanted on the streets of Newcastle and all Towns in-between Sydney and Brisbane, such as Kempsey, Coffs Harbour, Grafton, Ballina, Lismore and the hippie centre of Australia, Nimbin.

But by far the spookiest place we went to was Byron Bay; Kainaram prabhu claimed he had seen the ghost of a dead girl who had been killed by a train many years ago.

On many occasions people had claimed to pick up this lonely little girl to take her home only to find when they got to there home she had mysteriously disappeared. People would go up to the house to tell the little girls parents only to find she had died many years before.

Obviously it was just an urban legend and our simplistic youth was intrigued. Madhudvisa Swami used this to preach to us the difference between the subtle and gross body.

After Byron Bay with all the hippies, we went to Murwillumbah where we chanted in the streets for the first time. Soon (1977, 5 years later) we would establish the farm New Govardhana there.

We then went inland to Lismore, then Armadale where there was a university. We meet an Indian Professor who invited us to the Uni where we chanted and distributed Prasadam. Many Indian families lived there and some of us went to their houses to speak from Bhagavad Gita as it is.

As the night progressed, the Indian women cooked up some amazing food preparations that we offered to Srila Prabhupada.

That place was very, very cold. Every morning, even in the middle of winter, we had cold showers behind the bus. To give one an idea, Chittahari was walking to the bus one cold morning with what we thought was a board, it was his underwear (koppings) frozen solid!

We eventually arrived in Toowoomba in Queensland and chanted to the redneck out back Queenslanders who thought we were some alien invasion from another planet!

From there we went to the Gold Coast, made up of the major towns of Coolangatta, Burleigh heads, Surfers Paradise and Southport. We chanted in all these places, distributed Back To Godhead Magazine and Prasadam and spoke to the enormous crowds that gathered around us.

Many of the devotees on the Bus, like Balarama and Krsna Caitanya where surfer board riders, they attracted many young people to learn about Krishna and take prasad. Especially Krsna Caitanya who was a well-known celebrity around the world.

Then we went to Beenleigh, in-between the Gold Coast and Brisbane. The day we arrived in Brisbane, we chanted on the city streets and were on page two of the Couramail Newspaper the next day.

The headline was “The Hare Krishna’s have arrived with the chant of peace”

Brisbane was also having their annual ‘Festive show’ that attracted tens of thousands of people.

We chanted out the front gates of the ‘Show grounds’ where so many people saw the Hare Krishna’s for the first time, many receiving BTG Magazine.

It was there Nat Young, another famous surfer and friend of Krsna Caitanya dasa (Ted Spencer) joined us for a few days and become friends with Madhudvisa Swami who nicely preached to him about Krishna.

We never had the full version of the Gita in those days, only the abridged edition with the forward by Allen Ginsberg.

Those years were extraordinary. Dwaip cooked up beautiful offerings to Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya and Nityananda while Chittahari, Balarama and myself were the Bus Drivers. Yaso and Kuntiboja were the inquisitive philosopher, well, actually we all were.

We just new we were very fortunate to be on that bus hearing such wonders of creation. Some of us asked ‘what did we deserve to hear the Srimad Bhagavatam. Some of us speculated we were yogis, mystics, devotees and even demons from the Satya-yuga.

Madhudvisa laughed and simply said ''It is by the causeless mercy of Lord Caitanya and Srila Prabhupada that the seeds of Bhakti are now sown in our hearts''. 

Madhudvisa read from one of Prabhupada’s original volumes if Srimad Bhagavatam he brought with him in 1965 to America.

In those days we would chant on the streets for 8 to 10 hours a day. One night at the show grounds we chanted to 10 pm because there were so many people. We chanted through all the Towns and cities as we proceeded up north to Cairns.

We went through Towns like Bundaberg, Mackay, Hervey Bay where we had big feast with hundreds of curious locals attended, (the Americans call them rednecks, we call them yobo’s).

Gladstone, Rockhampton, Airlie beach, Townsville, where we where on the front page of the main paper, actually all papers in all Towns were doing articles on us that kept us very busy doing interviews and arranging interviews with Madhudvisa.

At Kuranda, just outside of Cairns, Madhudvisa lead a blissful kirtan through the hippie community and hundreds of them, some were naked mostly teenagers, joined in chanting Hare Krishna and dancing.

Elayne Mitchell has said on the experience – ''I was there at Kuranda in 72 and went on the bus to the Millaa Millaa Buddhist colony for the Janmastami. It was very special. 

I had been going to the temple regularly before going to Cairns and I remember well, the only time people were naked in the commune was when they went swimming.

Most of us wore beautiful long hippie dresses or sarongs etc. some of the guys used to get around naked as I recall, but my girlfriend and 8 or 9 other friends and I who I all hitchhiked up from Melbourne together were quite chaste and wore nice clothing.

After a few months in Cairns I lived in the Temple in Melbourne for a few months, then lived in the Adelaide Temple for a few months, then moved back to Melbourne and lived in a flat with Deva Darshana DD after she and Jayadharma Dasa split up.

It was while living with her that I met Brian my future husband. We got married in May 1974 and our daughter Narayani was born later that year''

There was an explosion of devotees around 1972, the communes we went to in Australia were full of hippies at that time, we chanted through the forest areas and were like the pied piper, naked hippies as young as 14 came out of the forest and followed us singing Hare Krishna, there were hundreds of them at a place called Kurandar which is in Northern Queensland.

It was truly amazing at that time, I have never seen anything like it since, even today 45 years later, if you stand on the hill where all those hippies once gathered and chanted Hare Krishna, you can still see where the high water mark of transcendental bliss reached in the early 70s.

So now, 45 years later, you can go up on that steep hill in Kuranda and look down over the beautiful forest, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave of transcendental bliss finally broke and rolled back.

Devotees before this had never visited anywhere outside of Sydney or Melbourne. We were the pioneers at the very beginning of Lord Caitanya’s Golden Age in Kali-yuga.

We celebrated Janmastami at a Buddhist colony not far from Kuranda; we loaded as many hippies as we could in the double decker Hare Krishna bus, all chanting Hare Krishna and dancing ‘on the bus’ to the excellent blissful kirtans with Madhudvisa leading.

IT WAS VERY SPECIAL.

The following day was Vyasa-puja and Madhudvisa had lit a candle under Srila Prabhupada’s photo, the aura, bliss, love and security from that photo permeated the entire bus with an amazing mood of reverence and Krishna Consciousness.

They were amazing days and there was a childish innocence about those days; In fact we thought Madhudvisa was old (he was 24, Chittahari was 22 Krsna Caitanya was 23 and Balarama was 29).

The rest of us were still teenagers. The present generation I don’t think realize how young we were in those beginning years of ISKCON.

There was also no hanky panky going on, everyone was very sincere, very dedicated and very attached to Prabhupada.

We only ate offerings to the Deities and absolutely nothing else, if it was not prepared on the Bus we would not eat except on rare occasions at an Indians home as we did in Armadale (We had a beautiful photo of the Panca-tattva with a wonderful Photo of Prabhupada at their feet), no one even dreamed of eating anything unprepared by devotees or even drink soft drinks in those blissful days.

It was in the Temple room at 83 Hereford St. Sydney in early February 1973 that Srila Prabhupada and myself were alone as all the devotee had gone on Sankirtan.

Srila Prabhupada had noticed the paintings of Lord Caitanya and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur that I innocently put on the step of his Vyasasana to keep them off the wall and floor while I was cleaning.

Srila Prabhupada laughed and laughed saying that is not where those Personalities go, the emotion in his eyes and his humility I will never forget, he stayed in the Temple room chanting japa for about 10 minutes while I continued cleaning the Temple room in bliss!

At Melbourne’s third Rathayatra in July 1974 Srila Prabhupada attended, during the procession I tried to stay as close to him as I could while playing the mridanga drum, it was a very special time dancing there with Srila Prabhupada and latter on in front of him in a hall where we celebrated Rathayatra lecture by Srila Prabhupada and a wonderful feast.

In 1976 I was Srila Prabhupada’s Bodyguard at Melbourne Temple and not only stayed out the front of his room, but slept there as well. At the time four well shaven suited men, all in their forties would always come by the Temple harassing us with high tech cameras and listening devices. (Keep in mind that the average age of a devotee back then was twenty-five so these adult men were pretty scary)

They would also follow us our on street Sankirtan, film us and try to intimate the devotee’s distributing books by taking many, then ripping them up and throwing the books or magazines in a rubbish bin! These guys were real heavy

These men were part of a self appointed fundamentalist Christian deprogramming group with the Catholic Church that dealt with what they considered threats to the Catholic Church's youth being converted to other faiths.

One afternoon Pusta Krishna Swami went down to speak to them and one of them, in a barrage of abuse, threatened to kill Srila Prabhupada. Coming back with a stunned look on his face Maharaj said “These people are demons! Big demons!!

Pusta Krishna Maharaj was horrified what these men had said, and was reluctant to even repeat it however; he did tell only a few devotees that Prabhupada’s life had been threatened.

Hari Sauri prabhu, Srila Prabhupada’s personal servant at the time, was appalled and disgusted that a pure devotee of Krishna was threatened in this way and was so concerned we bought a shotgun.

The next day while also guarding the Temple hiding out the front of the Temple in a car out the front of ‘Prabhupada’s House’ these men all walked past trying to provoke the devotees and scare them.

When I opened the door of the car suddenly, one of them, Tom Erickson, who had been personally blessed by the Pope, pulled out a handgun and pointed it at me. Erickson was the ringleader and high up in the Catholic Church, a private detective known and even respected by many as a deprogrammer and even a rumoured hit man.

Amogha dasa was at the front gate and out of fear, I ran from the car and crawled the front wall of the Temple, about 7 feet high, so quickly that Amoga was astonished how I went over the fence like lighting.

We then went and told Prabhupada what had happened and he said “Then our movement is having some success, these men feel threatened because our movement is having so much success with today’s young people”

We called the police as Prabhupada instructed and they came and spoke with them and Ugrasrava dasa who never stopped giving lip to them and calling them demons to their faces.

Unfortunately the police did nothing, they new who he was, while Ugrasrava just called kept calling them dogs of the Catholic Church among other things.
At night I would stay out on the balcony of Prabhupada’s House with the shotgun that Hari Sauri had bought, staying awake watching Srila Prabhupada through the window translate late into the night.

Even though the night was freezing cold out on the balcony, watching Srila Prabhupada gave me warmth as he translated which was truly amazing. Prabhupada would go around to all the windows and doors to make sure they where locked.

For days these men intimidated devotee and guests but we were told to ignore them, except for Ugrashave Prabhu who constantly gave them lip to let them.

Actually nothing they could do could stop our preaching movement that they and the Catholic Church desperately attempted because we had Krishna and Prabhupada on our side and their arrogant threatening presence only made us more determined to spread the mission of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

A week after Srila Prabhupada had left a drive by shooting occurred and gunshots went through one of the windows – Kurma dasa’s room. He was there at the time and was fortunately unhurt as the bullets went into the wall.

The next day it made page two of the Melbourne Sun and the Australian public were outraged that such violence could happen over Religion in Melbourne.

A few months after that someone attacked our Temple again and through a small bomb over the back fence exploding on one of the cars, only a few hours before that I was resting in that same car while doing guard duty.

This attack also made the first bulletin on the evening TV news all over Australia.

The outcry of the public, due to the media reports, seemed to stop any further attacks from these Catholic fundamentalist fanatics.

During all these attacks we remembered what Srila Prabhupada had said “Then our movement is having some success, these men feel threatened because our movement is having so much success with today’s young people”

Many years later the main offender from the Catholic Church Tom Erickson got very sick due to a blood disorder and had his leg amputated.

Then to the surprise of the devotees, he rang the devotees in Melbourne and apologised for what he had done when Srila Prabhupada was here and asked the devotees for forgiveness for harassing all the devotees and yes he was forgiven.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada 

By your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa ACBSP