Only through pious activity can one enter the lush moon planet however, it's very difficult to get people to believe all the moon landings from 1969 to 1972 were fake. As far as the information I have collected, they did go there but did NOT enter the heavenly realm that exists there.
As time goes on there is just too much evidence to prove they did go instead of 'sentimentally' claim they never did. My visit to the Radio telescope at Parks NSW and personally be allowed to shoot a laser beam to 'reflectors' on the moon is more than enough proof for me.
Thursday, May 19, 2011
Friday, May 13, 2011
The mysterious origin of the soul
THE SECRET VEDIC BOOK OF ORIGINS REVEALED PART 2
Quantum physics or the science of possibilities explained on the highest level. The mysterious origin of the soul is now within our grasp of understanding. By Gauragopala dasa ACBSP 2006
To say we DID NOT come from Vaikuntha is to say we came from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or 'a clear sheet of consciousness' and Srila Prabhupada rejected that idea.
He has explained that this condition in the impersonal Brahmajyoti is already a fallen state, Srila Prabhupada further explains that originally we ALL have come down from Vaikuntha to the material creation many millions of years ago.
And then, out of frustration of trying to enjoy this temporary material existence, some of us have devolved even further to eventually fall into deeper illusion, with great difficulty, to that dormant motionless inactive conscious state known collectively as the impersonal Brahmajyoti (collectively because of all the billions of baddha-jivas vibrating dormantly there together)
And then, out of frustration of trying to enjoy this temporary material existence, some of us have devolved even further to eventually fall into deeper illusion, with great difficulty, to that dormant motionless inactive conscious state known collectively as the impersonal Brahmajyoti (collectively because of all the billions of baddha-jivas vibrating dormantly there together)
It is these souls (baddha-jivas) who foolishly think this impersonal Brahmajyoti is our origin, having forgotten their real perpetual nitya-siddha body in Goloka that exists outside the limited realms of the material creation (mahat-tattva) and the impersonal Brahmajyoti or effulgence.
And it must be further added that, like the material creation, is also a temporary condition of the numerous baddha-jivas who idiotically strive to take shelter within the collective impersonal Brahmajyoti, which is spiritual suicide to a devotee of Krishna.
Srila Prabhupada - "There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha" New York lecture on Caitanya-Caritamrta, July 13, 1976
Srila Prabhupada – “Eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha)? We cannot be eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha), because we are part and parcel of Krishna. Our natural position is ever liberated, eternally liberated (nitya-siddha). (Bhagavad Gita as it is lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada – “Regarding your questions concerning the spirit soul’s falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krishna are more likely to fall into nescient activities.
Usually, anyone who has developed his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstances, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence.
But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name . . ." Letter to Jagadish, 4.25.70
Usually, anyone who has developed his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstances, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence.
But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name . . ." Letter to Jagadish, 4.25.70
Srila Prabhupada - “A living entity misuses his little independence when he wants to lord it over material nature. This misuse of independence, which is called Maya, is always available. Otherwise, there would not be independence. Independence implies that one can use it properly or improperly." Srimad Bhagavatam 3.31.15
Srila Prabhupada - "Pure love for Krsna is eternally established in the hearts of living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, the living entity naturally awakens." (CC. M. 22.107)
Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
Now some have said, ‘Sometimes "Vaikuntha" means the impersonal Brahmajyoti characteristic of the spiritual sky, NOT necessarily "Vaikuntha-Loka." No that is not correct as the following explains -
Srila Prabhupada – "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport (Letter 1972 to devotee in Australia (To Madhudvisa Swami)
Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature. We can misuse such independence with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.
That choice is always there even in Goloka and must be there if genuine love is to exist. It is not that we first have to be contacted by the modes of material nature to fall down from Goloka or Vaikuntha.
It’s all to do with a combination of choice and the sheer smallness of the marginal living entity. An even then due to that smallness and choice, we only ‘think, imagine or dream’ we are fallen that we become fallen.
The following quotes overwhelmingly reveal that Srila Prabhupada has said we have come down from Vaikuntha however, most never again choose to make that foolish mistake, although on the other hand there is always the chance, due to free-will and the God (Krishna) given ability to choose, we can fall down and without that choice there can be no selfless love.
Srila Prabhupada - "After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world. There is possibility even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world." Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on July 4, 1974
Many do not understand the true facts of how we actually did come down from Goloka. And it's got nothing to do with sleeping on a bed in Goloka, as some foolishly believe. Their presentation of the ‘sleeping on a bed in Goloka’ philosophy and how the jiva falls from Goloka is absolute nonsense!!
The understanding of the word dream in regards to the marginal living entity falling from Goloka has nothing to do with sleeping anywhere; it’s all to do with time.
The proper understanding is this. It's all to do with the 'eternal presence' of the imperishable Vaikuntha's and Goloka compared to the 'past, present and future' of the perishable material creation of Maha-Vishnu.
The marginal living entity, due to free will and choice, falls out of synch with the 'eternal presence' of Goloka or Vaikuntha simply caused by their non-Krishna conscious mistaken desires.
Such selfish desires place the marginal living entity outside of Goloka as their nitya-baddha lower self that enters the mahat-tattva (material creation).
Now it is important to understand that while they are in the mahat-tattva, no time passes in Goloka-Vrndavana because of the 'eternal presence' of Krsna Consciousness there
.
In other words when the marginal living entity re-establishes again the memory of their nitya-siddha Krsna Conscious bodily identity in Goloka, it will appear as if NO time has passed whatsoever when once again the marginal living entity is in the shelter AS their nitya-siddha body within the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka-Vrndavana.
Dr. John Mize – “The question that bothers me in part is then why would the soul... Because I understand your conception that the soul is part of the spiritual sky originally or part of God, and it somehow falls out of this blissful condition due to pride, much like the Christian thesis that the devil fell out of heaven due to pride. And it seems puzzling why the soul would be so silly, so foolish, so insane, as to do such a thing”.
Srila Prabhupada – “That is his independence”.
Dr. John Mize – “Independence”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Instead of using independence properly, when he misuses independence he falls”.
Dr. John Mize – “I’m sorry, he what?”
Srila Prabhupada – “He falls down”.
Dr. John Mize – “He falls”.
Srila Prabhupada – “He falls down on account of his independence. Just like you have got independence. You are sitting here. You can go immediately. You may not like to hear me”.
Dr. John Mize – “I wouldn’t what?”
Srila Prabhupada – “You may not like to hear me”.
Dr. John Mize – “Yes”.
Srila Prabhupada – “That independence you have got. I have got also. I may not talk with you. So that independence is always there. Similarly, as part and parcel of God, the, it is the duty of the soul to be always engaged in the service of the Lord”.
Dr. John Mize – “Always engaged in...?”
Srila Prabhupada – “In the service of the Lord”.
Dr. John Mize – “Service of the Lord”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. Whatever I am ordering, it is immediately carrying out. I say, “Make it like this.” He will, it will do. So... But this is dead matter. It is acting mechanically. The brain directs immediately the finger and it acts, like machine. This whole body is just like a machine, but soul is not machine mechanical part. It is spiritual part.
So therefore, as I am directing the finger, as being machine, it is working, but if somebody else, a friend or servant, I may direct him to do something, he may not do it. So when the soul misuses the independence, then he falls down. That is material life.
Material life means misusing the independence of soul. Just like a son. A son’s duty is to obey the father. But he may not obey. That is his madness. So when the soul, misusing the independence, becomes mad, he is sent in this material world”.
Dr. John Mize – “It is puzzling to me that one would be so foolish”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Because by independence you can become foolish. Otherwise, there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do whatever you like. That is stated in the Bhagavad-Gita, that yathecchasi tathä kuru. Find out this verse in the Eighteenth Chapter.
That independence is there. After instructing the whole Bhagavad-Gita to Arjuna, Krishna gave him the independence, “Now whatever you like, you can do.”
Krishna never forced him to accept the teachings of Bhagavad-Gita. He gave him the independence, “Now whatever you like, you can do.” And he agreed. “Yes. Now my illusion is over, I shall act as You say.” The same independence. Yes”.
Dr. John Mize – “Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?”
Srila Prabhupada – “No, there are... Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down”.
Dr. John Mize – “So we’re among the 10%.
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. Or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are... Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down”.
Dr. John Mize – “Does Krishna know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Krishna? Yes, Krishna may know because He is omniscient”.
Dr. John Mize – “Are more souls falling all the time?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence... Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example:
Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be.
Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, “Where is the criminal? You are constructing...” Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency”.
Dr. John Mize – “The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka) is...?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes”.
Dr. John Mize – “From where does that tendency come?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” (Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada – “Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport” Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia (To Madhudvisa Swami)
Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha Krsna Bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Devotee – “Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back”.
Srila Prabhupada – “No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, "Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man," I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become. . . .”
Bhaktijana – “Has my soul ever been liberated?”
Srila Prabhupada – “That you know. I do not know”.
Bhaktijana – “If I was once liberated...”
Srila Prabhupada – “You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this Maya. This is called Maya”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger”. Letter to Madhudvisa Swami 1972
It is important to understand that ALL marginal living entities ‘originally’ come from Goloka-Vrndavana and are ALWAYS in a perpetual state of uniqueness’ meaning we are forever fresh and youthful in our nitya-siddha body.
Such a spiritual body is ‘eternally’ endowed with a two-armed form like Krishna’s but can also appear as a four armed form in the Vaikunthas in the mood of servitude, or further appear as a flower, drop of rain, chair, etc regardless, the original form of the soul is two armed just like Krishna’s.
What makes things confusing to several is that some marginal living entities, who have manifested as their inferior secondary baddha-jiva state in the material creation, can stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva for what seems to be an almost eternity!
This means many baddha-jiva souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation because of not being Krishna Conscious to awaken to their true nitya-siddha body in Goloka.
In other words, this entrance into the dormant impersonal Brahmajyoti condition only happens if they are not qualified to again remember their ‘full potential awareness’ of being a nitya-siddha perpetual Krishna Conscious body in Goloka.
In this way, the baddha-jiva sub-conscious state starts off as a non-Krishna conscious selfishly active dream (or thought) condition originating from the marginal living entity in Goloka.
Therefore it is only the secondary or inferior baddha-jiva that is a formless state of consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules (All referring to the baddha-jiva and NOT the nitya-siddha body due to always being a Krishna Conscious bodily form).
This baddha-jiva condition can only experience selfish desires through material bodily vessel provided by Maha-Vishnu from within His mahat-tattva creation that clothes the secondary baddha-jiva state with subtle (ethereal) and gross (biological) material containers or bodily vessels of the mahat-tattva.
There are others also that a resemble fire and extreme cold. Sarva gatah - life is everywhere in the mahat-tattva and most, over 95%, we cannot see with our biological eyes and our scientific technological extensions like the Electron Microscope and the Humble Telescope.
Some have said that "falling down from Vaikuntha" means NOT necessarily "Vaikuntha-Loka planets of eternal loving service." Srila Prabhupada rejects that nonsense claim to his teachings and explains clearly we have foolishly come from Krishna’s Pastimes - (Lecture August 6, 1973) and further defeats this nonsense speculation by undoubtedly telling us –
Srila Prabhupada – "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila and sport" (Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia (To Madhudvisa Swami)
Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago."
Srila Prabhupada clearly teaches us - These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities". Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970 which he means, "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila" (Letter 1972 to Madhudvisa Swami)
Srila Prabhupada tells us we have come down from Vaikuntha-loka, actually Goloka-Vrndavana some millions of years ago and have not originated from this Prapanchika Vaikuntha.
We may have been to Prapanchika Vaikuntha but long, long, long before that we were with Krsna in His Vaikuntha-loka and Goloka-Vrndavana
To say we the marginal living entities came from 'a clear sheet of consciousness that is expanding and growing with new jivas, ' or from the impersonal dormant characteristic of the Brahmajyoti, is worse than the teachings of Mayavadi philosophy!
On many occasions Srila Prabhupada further elaborates on his wonderful purports in the association of his close disciples. I remember in Sydney he called devotees in to his room and preached to midnight, being the guard at the door, I heard these wonderful conversations. The main point to understand is that there is no difference between Prabhupada's books, lectures, morning walks and personal instructions, in fact why would there be?
Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha". Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970 Srila Prabhupada further explains this clearly -
Srila Prabhupada – "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila" (Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia (To Madhudvisa Swami)
And this -
"Due to the mundane association and the deliberations of mundane sensual objects, the jiva-soul has forgotten the real forms of the self, the bliss, divinity and that of Vaikuntha. As a result of which, the jivas are put into a delusion of imagining sense-pleasures and heavenly pleasures as the bliss.
They are also at delusion regarding their conception about the Supreme Lord and His Abode. They mistake the Vaikuntha as to be something like the mundane regions and also they misconstrue the Divine Body with the perishable bodies of the physical world thereby they mistake some or other abodes constituted by the earth, water, or any other similarly imagined abode as the Vaikuntha." Sri Tattva-Sutram on page 137
And this -
When the marginal living entity first chooses to pursue their own self-centred desires and thus forgets his relationship with Krishna, he is immediately overwhelmed by the influence of Maya, in other words, one first chooses to ignore Krishna that simultaneously puts them in the realm of Maya or within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada is very clear. Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world (As nitya-siddha). But when we want to take Krsna’s position, Krsna puts us into a dreaming state (As nitya-baddha).
In this dreaming state we forget our actual position and are thus free to act out our desire to become the supreme enjoyer. This state of forgetfulness and dreaming is sometimes characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world.
But Srila Prabhupada explains that in reality we are not fallen. We are simply in a dreaming state. Srila Prabhupada says that this is a very important point and asks the devotees to carefully consider it.
This concept that we are not really fallen offers an explanation for the statements that “no one falls from Vaikuntha.” We do not fall. We simply forget our original relationship of service to Krsna. Some might argue that we have eternally forgotten Krsna. But that is not supported by Srila Prabhupada
And this -
"Service of Sri Krsna is the eternal nature of a Jiva. When he forgets this relationship he is overwhelmed by the influence of Maya—the deluding potency lying at the back-ground of the Lord.
Thenceforward a Jiva shows his backwardness in the service of the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna. Since the backward condition of a Jiva springs up along with his coming into this mayaik world, the history of his downfall within the bounds of time and space is out of the question.
Hence the significance of the expression ‘eternally backward.' His eternal function with the service of Sri Krsna has been perverted since his entrance into the plane of three dimensions due to his forgetfulness." (Jaiva Dharma, p. 10)
Srila Prabhupada – "This is factual evidence showing that it is possible at any time to fall down from the Lord's association. . . Once fallen and separated from the Supreme Personality of Godhead's association, one becomes a candidate for suffering in the material world." Cc. Madhya-lila 10.65, purport
Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” Original Hare Krsna album
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur - “However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha. . . material rasas are perverted reflections of the soul’s original spiritual rasas.” Prema-pradipa, p. 83
Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
Trivikrama asks Srila Prabhupada – “You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I read ...
Srila Prabhupada: “The same example. In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am ...thinking, “Oh, tiger is there - It is simply dreaming condition”.
Trivikrama: But so many Vaishnavas are praying...
Srila Prabhupada – “So as soon as you understand that “This is not... I am not in contact with tiger, it is all a dream,” then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand “All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious. If you keep in Krsna consciousness, that “I am eternal servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. . . .
Trivikrama: This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...
Srila Prabhupada - “That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Krsna’s service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of Maya. You see?” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
In this lecture Srila Prabhupada is very clear. Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world (As nitya-siddha). But when we want to take Krsna’s position, we put ourselves into a dreaming state (As nitya-baddha) that can only exist in the mahat-tattva, the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Vishnu.
In this dreaming nitya-baddha condition we forget our actual position and are thus free to act out our desire to become the supreme enjoyer.
This state of forgetfulness and dreaming is characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world. But Srila Prabhupada explains that in reality we are not fallen. We are simply in a dreaming nitya-baddha state.
Srila Prabhupada says that this is a very important point and asks the devotees to carefully think about it.
This concept that we are not really fallen offers an explanation for the statements that “no one falls from Vaikuntha.” We do not fall. We simply forget our original nitya-siddha relationship of service to Krsna. Some might argue that we have eternally forgotten Krsna. But that is not supported by Srila Prabhupada’s purports
No. Hare Krsna a will be finished within ten thousand years.
Allen Ginsberg: In 400,000 years will people still be chanting Hare Krsna?
Prabhupada: No. Hare Krsna a will be finished within ten thousand years. There will be no more Hare Krsna.
Allen Ginsberg: Ah. So what will be left?
Prabhupada: Nothing. Left will be I’ll kill you and eat you, and you shall kill me. You shall eat me. That will be left.
Allen Ginsberg: After ten thousand years?
Prabhupada: Yes. There will be no grain, no milk, no sugar, no fruit. So I have to eat you, and you will have to eat me. Full facility for meat eating. (laughter) Full facility. Krsna is very kind. He’ll give you facility: “All right. Why cows and calves? You take your own son. Yes. Eat nicely.” Just like serpents, snakes, they eat their own offsprings, tigers. So this will happen.
Allen Ginsberg: Kali eats her own…
Prabhupada: Yes. And there will be no brain to understand, no preacher, nothing else. Go. Go to, to the dog. And then Krsna will come: “All right, let me kill you so that you are saved.” Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio 690513rc.col
Tuesday, May 10, 2011
Tatastha s’akti or jiva tatastha
Tatastha s’akti
Tatastha s’akti simply means we have the ability to choose this side of being with Krishna or that side being in the mahat-tattva material creation, no-one comes from there because it is not a place.
There are 160 names for the jiva-tattva like baddha--jiva, siddha-jiva, tatastha-jiva, jiva-tattva, jiva-s'akti, jiva bhutah etc that each describe the marginal living entity in its particular possition.
For example tatastha s’akti or jiva-tatastha refers to the jiva-tattva's sovereignty as an individual living being THAT HAS FREE WILL AND THE ABILITY TO CHOOSE its destiny.
NO jiva-tattva comes from tatastha-s'akti because THEY are ALREADY tatastha-s'akti PERPETUALLY! even in Goloka-Vrindavana from where they have originated. Tatastha-s'akti is NOT some place in the cosmos; it is simply a description of the jiva-tattva (marginal living entity) nature pertaining to free will and the ability to choose.
Tatastha s’akti simply means we have the ability to choose this side or that side.
The marginal living entity therefore is always also known a tatastha- s’akti in Vaikuntha, Goloka and the material creation, meaning there is always choice and free-will to love Krishna or reject Krishna
Tatastha s’akti simply means we have the ability to choose this side of being with Krishna or that side being in the mahat-tattva material creation, no-one comes from there because it is not a place.
There are 160 names for the jiva-tattva like baddha--jiva, siddha-jiva, tatastha-jiva, jiva-tattva, jiva-s'akti, jiva bhutah etc that each describe the marginal living entity in its particular possition.
For example tatastha s’akti or jiva-tatastha refers to the jiva-tattva's sovereignty as an individual living being THAT HAS FREE WILL AND THE ABILITY TO CHOOSE its destiny.
NO jiva-tattva comes from tatastha-s'akti because THEY are ALREADY tatastha-s'akti PERPETUALLY! even in Goloka-Vrindavana from where they have originated. Tatastha-s'akti is NOT some place in the cosmos; it is simply a description of the jiva-tattva (marginal living entity) nature pertaining to free will and the ability to choose.
Tatastha s’akti simply means we have the ability to choose this side or that side.
The marginal living entity therefore is always also known a tatastha- s’akti in Vaikuntha, Goloka and the material creation, meaning there is always choice and free-will to love Krishna or reject Krishna
Tatastha s’akti its real meaning
The real meaning of Tatastha s’akti
Tatastha s’akti simply means we have the ability to choose this side of being with Krishna or that side being in the mahat-tattva material creation, no-one comes from there because it is not a place.
There are 160 names for the jiva-tattva like baddha--jiva, siddha-jiva, tatastha-jiva, jiva-tattva, jiva-s'akti, jiva bhutah etc that each describe the marginal living entity in its particular possition.
For example tatastha s’akti or jiva-tatastha refers to the jiva-tattva's sovereignty as an individual living being THAT HAS FREE WILL AND THE ABILITY TO CHOOSE its destiny.
NO jiva-tattva comes from tatastha-s'akti because THEY are ALREADY tatastha-s'akti PERPETUALLY! even in Goloka-Vrindavana from where they have originated.
Tatastha-s'akti is NOT some place in the cosmos; it is simply a description of the jiva-tattva (marginal living entity) nature pertaining to free will and the ability to choose.
Tatastha s’akti simply means we have the ability to choose this side or that side.
The marginal living entity therefore is always also known a tatastha- s’akti in Vaikuntha, Goloka and the material creation, meaning there is always choice and free-will to love Krishna or reject Krishna
Taṭasthā-śakti is the spiritual but marginal energy of God known as the jiva tattva. Although the jivas are eternal, it is their position as marginal energy - between lower material and higher spiritual energy.
In other words, taṭasthā-śakti or the jiva tattva is between external (material) energy and internal (also eternal spiritual) energy of Krishna Svayam Bhagavan.
In Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya, Verse 6.160 are enumerated these three energies:
The spiritual potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead also appears in three phases -- internal, marginal and external.
Another verse (Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya, 8.152) gives more information:
In other words, these are all potencies of God -- internal, external and marginal. But the internal potency is the Lord's personal energy and stands over the other two.
So jivatma, living being is never equal to Supreme Godhead and also always subordinate to Him. Above the jiva tattva, also known as the tatastha shakti stands Internal energy of Krishna of shakti tattvas and Vishnu tattvas, the jiva tattvas originate from that realm of the Spiritual Sky known as Vaikuntha as well.
Tatastha s’akti simply means we have the ability to choose this side of being with Krishna or that side being in the mahat-tattva material creation, no-one comes from there because it is not a place.
There are 160 names for the jiva-tattva like baddha--jiva, siddha-jiva, tatastha-jiva, jiva-tattva, jiva-s'akti, jiva bhutah etc that each describe the marginal living entity in its particular possition.
For example tatastha s’akti or jiva-tatastha refers to the jiva-tattva's sovereignty as an individual living being THAT HAS FREE WILL AND THE ABILITY TO CHOOSE its destiny.
NO jiva-tattva comes from tatastha-s'akti because THEY are ALREADY tatastha-s'akti PERPETUALLY! even in Goloka-Vrindavana from where they have originated.
Tatastha-s'akti is NOT some place in the cosmos; it is simply a description of the jiva-tattva (marginal living entity) nature pertaining to free will and the ability to choose.
Tatastha s’akti simply means we have the ability to choose this side or that side.
The marginal living entity therefore is always also known a tatastha- s’akti in Vaikuntha, Goloka and the material creation, meaning there is always choice and free-will to love Krishna or reject Krishna
Taṭasthā-śakti is the spiritual but marginal energy of God known as the jiva tattva. Although the jivas are eternal, it is their position as marginal energy - between lower material and higher spiritual energy.
In other words, taṭasthā-śakti or the jiva tattva is between external (material) energy and internal (also eternal spiritual) energy of Krishna Svayam Bhagavan.
In Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya, Verse 6.160 are enumerated these three energies:
The spiritual potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead also appears in three phases -- internal, marginal and external.
Another verse (Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya, 8.152) gives more information:
In other words, these are all potencies of God -- internal, external and marginal. But the internal potency is the Lord's personal energy and stands over the other two.
So jivatma, living being is never equal to Supreme Godhead and also always subordinate to Him. Above the jiva tattva, also known as the tatastha shakti stands Internal energy of Krishna of shakti tattvas and Vishnu tattvas, the jiva tattvas originate from that realm of the Spiritual Sky known as Vaikuntha as well.
Baddha-jiva and its correct understanding
Baddha-jiva and its correct understanding
NO baddha-jivas ORIGINATE from Maha-Vishnu they are only given form (subtle and gross) material vessels by Him
There are only TWO types of living entities, Vishnu-tattva and jiva-tattva. We, the marginal living entity are jiva-tattva where we experience our full potential as nitya-siddha and our restricted self centred condition as nitya-baddha.
Nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha are two different sides every jiva-tattva can manifest
All jiva-tattvas or marginal living entities are originally nitya-siddha and can ignore that Krishna Conscious Krishna Conscious Spiritual body and restrict their ‘awareness’ to their nitya-baddha or baddha-jiva lower non-Krishna Conscious self.
The jiva-tattva is also known as the marginal living entity, which means there is always the choice to serve Krishna or enter the material creation and to do their own thing.
This ability to split ones personality into always serving Krishna or serving ones own selfish desires without Krishna are referred to as nitya-siddha body (svarupa) that is perpetually Krishna Consciousness, and the nitya-baddha consciousness or a secondary projected circumstance of the jiva-tattva.
This extended projection of the marginal living entity known as the baddha-jiva manifests in the material creation as a sub-conscious condition and given or covered with material bodily vessels that are provided by Maha-Vishnu.
NO baddha-jivas ORIGINATE from Maha-Vishnu they are only given form (subtle and gross) material vessels by Him
NO baddha-jivas ORIGINATE from Maha-Vishnu they are only given form (subtle and gross) material vessels by Him
There are only TWO types of living entities, Vishnu-tattva and jiva-tattva. We, the marginal living entity are jiva-tattva where we experience our full potential as nitya-siddha and our restricted self centred condition as nitya-baddha.
Nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha are two different sides every jiva-tattva can manifest
All jiva-tattvas or marginal living entities are originally nitya-siddha and can ignore that Krishna Conscious Krishna Conscious Spiritual body and restrict their ‘awareness’ to their nitya-baddha or baddha-jiva lower non-Krishna Conscious self.
The jiva-tattva is also known as the marginal living entity, which means there is always the choice to serve Krishna or enter the material creation and to do their own thing.
This ability to split ones personality into always serving Krishna or serving ones own selfish desires without Krishna are referred to as nitya-siddha body (svarupa) that is perpetually Krishna Consciousness, and the nitya-baddha consciousness or a secondary projected circumstance of the jiva-tattva.
This extended projection of the marginal living entity known as the baddha-jiva manifests in the material creation as a sub-conscious condition and given or covered with material bodily vessels that are provided by Maha-Vishnu.
NO baddha-jivas ORIGINATE from Maha-Vishnu they are only given form (subtle and gross) material vessels by Him
Sunday, March 20, 2011
The Moon is further away from Earth than the Sun
Srila Prabhupada – “Our knowledge should be through the sastra. That is practical. And our process of knowledge is this: we get knowledge from sastra, like Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Vedic knowledge.
We do not claim to be very big scientists. That is not possible. But we get knowledge from the best scientific man or person, the Personality of Godhead, Krsna, Vyasadeva, Narada, Asita, Devala, later on the acaryas, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Sankaracarya, Caitanya.
Our process of knowledge is not any speculation: "It may be," "Perhaps." No. We don't accept this knowledge. "It may be," "Perhaps" -- these are all foolishness. That means one who has no perfect knowledge, he will say, "It may be," "Perhaps." One who has definite knowledge, why he will say, "It may be"? It must be.
So far as we get information from Srimad-Bhagavatam, there is sun, then moon, according to Bhagavatam. We were talking about these things: whether the moon is the first planet or the sun is the first planet. So far as we understand from Vedic literature, the moon is the second planet. The sun is the first planet.
If we consider like that, then the moon is beyond the sun planet. The estimation is there in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: 1,600,000 miles above the sun, the moon is situated.
Now, if we take consideration of the sun planet situated 93,000,000 miles from earth, then add 1,600,000 miles again, it comes to 95,000,000 miles away from the earthly planet.
And how you can reach there in four days, 95,000,000 miles away? If we apply our common sense, then it appears they have never gone to the moon planet. It is all bogus propaganda. It is not possible.
(Srila Prabhupada - Lecture, Nov. 28, 1975)
We do not claim to be very big scientists. That is not possible. But we get knowledge from the best scientific man or person, the Personality of Godhead, Krsna, Vyasadeva, Narada, Asita, Devala, later on the acaryas, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Sankaracarya, Caitanya.
Our process of knowledge is not any speculation: "It may be," "Perhaps." No. We don't accept this knowledge. "It may be," "Perhaps" -- these are all foolishness. That means one who has no perfect knowledge, he will say, "It may be," "Perhaps." One who has definite knowledge, why he will say, "It may be"? It must be.
So far as we get information from Srimad-Bhagavatam, there is sun, then moon, according to Bhagavatam. We were talking about these things: whether the moon is the first planet or the sun is the first planet. So far as we understand from Vedic literature, the moon is the second planet. The sun is the first planet.
If we consider like that, then the moon is beyond the sun planet. The estimation is there in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: 1,600,000 miles above the sun, the moon is situated.
Now, if we take consideration of the sun planet situated 93,000,000 miles from earth, then add 1,600,000 miles again, it comes to 95,000,000 miles away from the earthly planet.
And how you can reach there in four days, 95,000,000 miles away? If we apply our common sense, then it appears they have never gone to the moon planet. It is all bogus propaganda. It is not possible.
(Srila Prabhupada - Lecture, Nov. 28, 1975)
Thursday, January 13, 2011
Tuesday, January 11, 2011
Sunday, December 26, 2010
Dandavats » Blog Archive » ‘Realizations on the jiva’s ‘fall’ from Vaikuntha
Dandavats » Blog Archive » ‘Realizations on the jiva’s ‘fall’ from Vaikuntha
Srila Prabhupada – “The Supreme Personality of Godhead impregnates the mahat-tattva (material creation) with His internal potency which are the living entities. The mahat-tattva (lifeless matter) is thus “lit up” by the sum total of the consciousness of all the conditioned souls (baddha-jivas)” Srimad Bhagavatam 3.26.19-2).
The mahat-tattva refers to the perishable material creation, which takes up one quarter of the Brahmajyoti, Brahman or Spiritual Sky that includes all the subtle (ethereal) and gross (biological) material bodily vessels that entrap the baddha-jiva soul according to their selfish material desires and good and bad reactions (karma).
The mahat-tattva is the creation of Maha-Vishnu; everything in His innate or lifeless material creation is the manifestation of His dreams and thoughts and is only moved with the appearance of life. It is He who impregnates in the mahat-tattva the baddha-jiva-souls.
So where do those baddha-jivas come from?
Maha-Vishnu brings life to the mahat-tattva by His glance that places baddha-jivas in His ‘mahat-tattva’ bodily material vessels throughout the material creation. These baddha-jivas that are placed in subtle and gross material bodily vessels are actually from the previous mahat-tattva, however there are others who have chosen to come down from Vaikuntha and even Goloka-Vrndavana, not as their nitya-siddha body, but also as their sub-conscious dream state known as the nitya-baddha jiva
This nitya-baddha characteristic of the jiva (marginal living entity) is the secondary inferior manifestation of the marginal living entity that becomes evident when the marginal living entity foolishly chooses to leave Goloka or Vaikuntha, forgetting Krishna and their own eternal nitya-siddha body.
This therefore places the marginal living entities ‘awareness’ of reality as nitya-baddha into the mahat-tattva confined to an unlimited array of material bodily vessels that are all part and parcel of the material dream creation of Maha-Vishnu.
If the marginal living entity or jiva-soul chooses to enter Maha-Vishnu’s material creation by rejecting service Krishna in Goloka as their nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body, then their ‘awareness’ will no longer be absorbed as who really are as a nitya-siddha body (svarupa vigraha).
Just like darkness (compared to the nitya-baddha consciousness) is created by the absence of light (compared to the nitya-siddha body), the inferior nitya-baddha conscious ‘conditioned awareness’ only exists when the jiva forgets their nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body.
The jiva-soul or the marginal living entity is now manifest as its nitya-baddha secondary ‘awareness’ where one’s material desires will be given the facility of a material ethereal and biological vessels that are within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu which are containments, bodily vessels or ornament belonging to the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.
Such material bodies are available to an unlimited number of marginal living entities via their secondary baddha-jiva condition if they choose to ignore Krishna and live out their material desires.
In this way, the mahat-tattva along with all its material vessels, are continuously created and annihilated with the creation and destruction of each mahat-tattva, the trapped baddha-jiva within those material bodies simply goes along for the cosmic ride bound by karma in search of selfish material so called pleasures in an attempt to lord it over the material energy. All these trapped baddha-jivas take refuge within the Body of Maha-Vishnu when the mahat-tattva is annihilated if they are not qualified to go Back Home, Back to Godhead.
Others like advanced impersonalist yogis can take shelter in their own inactive or dormant consciousness by ceasing all desires and actions with much difficulty, which really is a dreamless dream state of the baddha-jiva.
Therefore the impersonal aspect of the Brahman or Brahmajyoti is certainly not some place in the creation where baddha-jivas merge into as some foolishly believe but is rather a state of individual consciousness.
The Brahman or ‘impersonal Brahmajyoti’ or the impersonal feature of the Spiritual Sky is actually a very small minority of jiva-souls or marginal living entities who experience this in their baddha-jiva second-rate characteristic that become further trapped in that ‘impersonal’ dormant state due to the influence of being covered then eventually frustrated by the temporary material bodies within the mahat-tattva that souls fall to and are covered (material vessels that belong to the mahat-tattva) by when they long, long, long, long, long ago chose to no longer serve Krsna in Goloka or Vaikuntha
In other words, when jiva-souls or marginal living entities in the nitya-baddha condition become fed up with the material creation of changing material bodies or vessels, they can escape this cycle of birth and death by either realizing their full potential nitya-siddha body that is always in Goloka even while they ‘envision’ themselves to be in the mahat-tattva, or they can cease to desire bodily activity (after much difficulty of casting off those subtle and gross material bodies) and enter an inactive dormant state of consciousness that each marginal living entity has the capacity of expression, in this case ‘impersonal’ inactivity.
Although due to the inherent nature of the baddha-jiva is activity, the impersonal Brahman condition is also temporary. The individual baddha-jivas who ‘manifest’ this ‘dormant consciousness’ are expressing the impersonal side of their nature and is known as the impersonal Brahmajyoti feature of the marginal living entity. In other words the impersonal Brahmajyoti is the dormant inactive characteristic of the ‘baddha’-jiva’
The gross characteristics of the material universe that houses biological bodies as well as there innate or lifeless remnants left over after the embodied baddha-jiva, contained in the ethereal vessel, gives up or is forced to give up the outer gross biological material vessel, is totally different than the underlining subtle body (ethereal) or universe that takes up 99% of the material universe or mahat-tattva.
Modern science therefore can only register or view less than 1% of the material universes where the middle planetary systems exist, where as the other 99% of the subtle or ethereal material creation cannot be seen with gross biological eyes or its extensions of gross material technology. Science calls un measurable sub-space material matter ‘dark matter’ however if they see it then it is only part of the gross material worlds
So only 1% of the material universe is made up of gross matter and biological bodily vessels. All dead matter such as dust, rocks, sand, atmosphere comes from the presence of life, left over from the presence of biological infatuated self-centred baddha-jivas trapped with the cycle of birth and death.
Scientific advancement such as the Hubble Telescope, the Electron Microscope and the Large Hadron Collider (atom smasher) are also made out of this gross matter, which means these instruments cannot register the subtle ethereal material universe that takes up 99% of the mahat-tattva material creation, what to speak of the Vaikunthas.
Therefore the greater majority of the material universe, not to be misunderstood as spiritual (Vaikuntha/Goloka) is the subtle material (ethereal universe and home of the demigods and hellish worlds) that can never be measured by any gross instrument or biological means in the material universe.
Therefore 99% of the mahat-tattva (material universe) is not seen with biological eyes or even measured by any kind of gross material technology no matter how advanced.
Only pious or impious activities can reveal both the heavenly and hellish words to an individual however, there is no gross material way other than by the path of self realization under the guidance of a Guru can this be realized, experienced and understood and attain AGAIN attain Vaikuntha beyond the subtle and gross material worlds.
Srila Prabhupada - “The living entity wants to imitate Krsna and tries to lord it over material nature; thus he forgets his original position, and his illuminating power, his spiritual identity, (their nitya-siddha body is forgotten) is extinguish. However, if a living entity takes to Krsna consciousness, he is reinstated in his original position. Bhaktivedanta purport of the Eighty-seventh Chapter of Krsna, “Prayers by the Personified Vedas.”
Srila Prabhupada – “Sages and saints like Narada and the Kumaras are travelling all over the universe educating people and encouraging their disciples to preach this process of devotional service so all the conditioned souls may be able to revive their original consciousness, or Krsna consciousness, and thus gain relief from the miserable conditions of material life”. Bhaktivedanta purport of the Eighty-seventh Chapter of Krsna, “Prayers by the Personified Vedas.”
There is no origin to our ‘svarupa or nitya-siddha body’. Every marginal living entity has an authentic nitya-siddha svarupa or sat-cit-ananda- vigraha body in Goloka-Vrndavana. Unlike the material world in the Spiritual worlds of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrndavana, we are our body.
This they can realize even now while trapped in their lower nitya-baddha dreaming self if one again turns to Krishna Consciousness. On the other hand, the rebellious marginal living entity trapped in their baddha-jiva selfish expression, can almost never realize their true bodily nitya-siddha identity if they continue to choose to remain nitya-baddha and continue to misuse their free will and not desire to ‘again’ become Krishna Conscious.
Srila Prabhupada – “By the grace of Krishna, we have complete freedom. Because the Lord is kind to us, we can live anywhere, either in the spiritual sky or in the material sky, upon whichever planet we desire. However, misuse of this freedom causes one to fall down into the material world and suffer the threefold miseries of conditioned life. Milton in Paradise Lost nicely illustrates the living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul’s choice. Similarly, by choice, the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead.” Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi Lila 5.22, Purport
Factually, without free will, there would be no need to have the mahat-tattva (material creation) however, because we DO have the free will to serve Krishna or reject Krishna, there is a need to have the mahat-tattva just like our society has the need to have a jail.
Without free will how can there be genuine love and service? There has to be a choice and that is why we are called ‘marginal’ living entities. Each marginal living entity has the nitya-siddha body in Goloka and, if they choose, the nitya baddha consciousness (surrogate) that takes shelter within material bodily vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu within His mahat-tattva material creation.
A devotee asked Srila Prabhupada what he had been praying for, and Srila Prabhupada said, “I was praying that I may not fall down from devotional service.” The devotee responded, “But Srila Prabhupada, a pure devotee like you never falls down.” Srila Prabhupada replied, “A pure devotee never falls down because he is always praying that he may not fall down.”
Comment posted by Gauragopala dasa on December 25th, 2010
Saturday, December 25, 2010
This answers the paradox of how there is free will and 'everything is predestined'.
This answers the paradox of how there is free will and 'everything is predestined'.
Free will and predestination in the mahat-tattva both exist at the same time and that’s why it is possible to know all past, present and future simultaneously
The mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu has every possible scenario each material gross and subtle bodily vessel the soul (marginal living entity as baddha-jiva) can traverse already existing as a blueprint within the mahat-tattva in anticipation for what ever the baddha-jiva desires and deserves.
Therefore, based on desire, free will, karma and choice; the marginal living entity as their nitya-baddha secondary consciousness that exists conditioned in gross biological and subtle ethereal bodies within the mahat-tattva, can have any body and circumstance they yearn for based on aspiration and karma. The marginal living entity therefore has the free will that enables them to carve their own pathway through the multi- perpetual pathways that take into account every possible scenario and out-come that the embodied baddha-jiva chooses or deserves.
This answers the paradox of how there is free will and 'everything is predestined'.
Within the mahat-tattva or material creation all past, present and future as well as every possible scenario situation, condition and state of material affairs all exist simultaneously within unlimited time lines that are each a little different that the one next to it.
Thursday, December 23, 2010
Tuesday, December 14, 2010
The Jiva DID fall From Goloka
The Jiva DID fall From Goloka
Dandavats » Blog Archive » ‘Realizations on the jiva’s ‘fall’ from Vaikuntha
Dandavats » Blog Archive » ‘Realizations on the jiva’s ‘fall’ from Vaikuntha
Sunday, December 12, 2010
ISKCON’s correct policy on the ‘origin of the jiva’
R.A. Sadhudasa Anudasa proposal to change Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON's teachings that all marginal living entities come from Vaikuntha is a nonsense attempt because he has already come to his own forlorn ‘impersonal origin’ conclusions. His attempt to change ISKCON’s correct policy on the ‘origin of the jiva’ is only minimizing Srila Prabhupada’s absolute teachings.
Drutakarma Prabhu’s paper is already an excellent read found here http://www.scribd.com/Jiva/d/1732507 and clearly explains ISKCON’s understanding on the ‘origin of the jiva’. Jayadvaita Swami also nicely explains ISKCON’s excellent policy on this subject at this address - http://www.jswami.info/jiva
I also would like to humbly add -
To say we, the marginal living entities, came from the impersonal dormant characteristic of the Brahmajyoti is NOT the teachings of Srila Prabhupada!
Srila Prabhupada was very clear on this subject – “Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport” Letter to Madhudvisa Swam 1972
Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha". Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” Original Hare Krsna album
Srila Prabhupada – “ So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down.”. July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C
Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha Krsna Bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Devotee – “Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back”.
Srila Prabhupada – “No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, "Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man," I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become. . . .”
Srila Prabhupada – “You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this Maya. This is called Maya”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger”. Letter to Madhudvisa Swami 1972
It is important to understand that ALL marginal living entities ‘originally’ come from Goloka-Vrndavana and are ALWAYS in a perpetual state of uniqueness’ meaning we are forever fresh and youthful in our nitya-siddha body.
Such a spiritual body is ‘eternally’ endowed with a two-armed form like Krishna’s but can also appear as a four armed form in the Vaikunthas in the mood of servitude, or further appear as a flower, drop of rain, chair, etc regardless, the original form of the soul is two armed just like Krishna’s.
What makes things confusing to several is that some marginal living entities, who have manifested as their inferior secondary baddha-jiva state in the material creation, can stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva for what seems to be an almost eternity!
This means many baddha-jiva souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation because of not being Krishna Conscious to awaken to their true nitya-siddha body in Goloka.
In other words, this entrance into the dormant impersonal Brahmajyoti condition only happens if they are not qualified to again remember their ‘full potential awareness’ of being a nitya-siddha perpetual Krishna Conscious body in Goloka.
In this way, the baddha-jiva sub-conscious state starts off as a non-Krishna conscious selfishly active dream (or thought)
Therefore it is only the secondary or inferior baddha-jiva that is a formless state of consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules (All referring to the baddha-jiva and NOT the nitya-siddha body due to always being a Krishna Conscious bodily form).
This baddha-jiva condition can only experience selfish desires through material bodily vessel provided by Maha-Vishnu from within His mahat-tattva creation that clothes the secondary baddha-jiva state with subtle (ethereal) and gross (biological) material containers or bodily vessels of the mahat-tattva.
Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
Trivikrama asks Srila Prabhupada – “You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I read ...
Srila Prabhupada: “The same example. In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am ...thinking, “Oh, tiger is there - It is simply dreaming condition”.
Trivikrama: But so many Vaishnavas are praying...
Srila Prabhupada – “So as soon as you understand that “This is not... I am not in contact with tiger, it is all a dream,” then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand “All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious. If you keep in Krsna consciousness, that “I am eternal servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. . . .
Trivikrama: This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...
Srila Prabhupada - “That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Krsna’s service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of Maya. You see?” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
In this lecture Srila Prabhupada is very clear. Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world (As nitya-siddha). But when we want to take Krsna’s position, we put ourselves into a dreaming state (As nitya-baddha) that can only exist in the mahat-tattva, the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Vishnu.
In this dreaming nitya-baddha condition we forget our actual position and are thus free to act out our desire to become the supreme enjoyer.
This state of forgetfulness and dreaming is characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world. But Srila Prabhupada explains that in reality we are not fallen. We are simply in a dreaming nitya-baddha state.
Srila Prabhupada says that this is a very important point and asks the devotees to carefully think about it.
This concept that we are not really fallen offers an explanation for the statements that “no one falls from Vaikuntha.” We do not fall. We simply forget our original nitya-siddha relationship of service to Krsna. Some might argue that we have eternally forgotten Krsna. But that is not supported by Srila Prabhupada’s purports
Srila Prabhupada – “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
The people who claim we have originated from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or a ‘clear sheet of consciousness’ sometimes alleges that those confronted with the choice of Krishna or the mahat-tattva are conditioned souls and cannot be engaged in the Lord's personal association.
They further assert that those who have attained the personal association of the Lord never again misuse their free will. In most cases that is correct because the marginal living entity chooses to do so. For there to be genuine love or service, there must be free-will other wise we are simply mindless porn’s in a collective of monotonous bliss.
Further more, many do not understand the true facts of how we actually did come down from Goloka due to miss using that free will. We certainly did not come down as our nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body, which is perpetually there in Krishna’s pastimes fixed within that eternal presence where nothing perishes
The understanding of the word ‘dream’ in regards to the marginal living entity falling from Goloka is significant in Srila Prabhupada’s preaching yet has nothing to do with ‘sleeping’ anywhere; it's all to do with time.
The proper understanding is this. It's all to do with the 'eternal presence' of the imperishable Vaikuntha's and Goloka that has no past or future, compared to the 'past, present and future' of the perishable material creation of Maha-Vishnu.
The marginal living entity, due to free will and choice, falls out of synch with the 'eternal presence' of Goloka or Vaikuntha simply caused by their non-Krishna conscious mistaken desires. This also means they fall our of synch with their own perpetual nitya-siddha body and create an alternative consciousness known as the nitya-baddha secondary self. It is this inferior consciousness that enters the mahat-tattva dreams of Maha-Vishnu.
Such selfish desires place the marginal living entity outside of Goloka as their nitya-baddha lower self that enters the mahat-tattva (material creation).
Now it is important to understand that while they are in the mahat-tattva, no time passes in Goloka-Vrndavana because of the 'eternal presence' of Krsna Consciousness there. Now that technically means their nitya-siddha body is NEVER fallen but rather it is their 'consciousness' that is fallen
Lord Krishna states that our constitutional nature is that all marginal living beings are eternal servants of the Lord. So to say that ‘conditioned’ souls have never been ‘unconditioned’ in Goloka-Vrndavana is incorrect.
When the marginal living entity is in a conditioned state (nitya-baddha), that doesn’t take away their eternal absolute nature as a nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna who is forever fixed within the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka. When a dark cloud covers the Sun, everything becomes dark however, it is not the sun that goes dark, it is the covering that makes it appear the Sun is dark.
Similarly, the nitya-siddha body of the marginal living entity is always in Goloka-Vrndavana but due to the selfish desires of the marginal living entity that cover the marginal living entities ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body, it appears that the darkness or the nitya-baddha secondary consciousness has replaced the nitya-siddha body, but that is NOT so, one’s nitya-siddha body is ALWAYS in Goloka even when one dreams they are nitya-baddha in the mahat-tattva or material creation.
The rebellious marginal living entity simply becomes overshadowed with the concept of past, present and future instigated by free-will, choice and their absolute smallness putting them out of sync with the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka where their nitya-siddha body is perpetually situated.
As a result, they have now adopted the relative perception of existence that places them within the mahat-tattva’s bodily vessels, which are all the dreams of the sleeping Maha-Vishnu.
As a result of this choice, the marginal living entity is no longer ‘aware’ of Goloka or their nitya-siddha body in Goloka that is perpetually fixed there due to the eternal presence of Krishna consciousness as already explained and are now nitya baddha trapped in the mahat-tattva of Maha-Vishnu
As in our case in the material world, we are presently ‘eternally conditioned’ (nitya-baddha) because long, long, long, long ago we made that choice to forget Krishna and simultaneously the ‘awareness’ of our nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) body we serve Krishna as.
And when again we achieve liberation from this material world due to the mercy of pure devotee, we will enter Goloka AGAIN by the method of becoming ‘aware’ of our genuine nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body or in simple terms, we begin to distinguish who we really our that separates us from the MATERIAL DREAM state or nitya-baddha fallen self centred consciousness.
Alan Ginsberg – “How did the material covering begin?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Begin?”
Alan Ginsberg – “As the material shadow. How did we fall into that?
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. Yes. That is very natural. . . Because jiva, although para-sakti, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Krishna”.
Alan Ginsberg – “… How did we fall into that?”
Srila Prabhupada – “In the spiritual world, Krishna is the enjoyer. And all others, they are enjoyed--predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, ‘The Lord is predominator; we have to serve.’ When this service attitude is impaired, that--‘Why serve Krishna? Why not ourself?’--that is Maya”. - Room conversation with Allen Ginsberg in Columbus, OH 5-14-69
Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we re already serving Krsna?
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that "Don't fall down." And as soon as you associate with the material nature, then you fall down.
Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can't understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving...
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire..." Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 13.22-24 -- Melbourne, June 25, 1974
Devotee – “You commented that everyone has a natural desire to have relationship with Krsna, but that because...
Srila Prabhupada – “Not desire, but he is already established”.
Devotee – “ Established.
Srila Prabhupada – “That is covered. Just like your relationship with somebody as father and son, it is established. You might have forgot, you might have left your home since a very, very long time, and you do not know who is your father, but there is some father. That is a fact. Nobody can say, "No. I, I have, I am born without father." Nobody can say. One has father, but it may be that he has forgotten his father.
So this Krsna consciousness movement is that we have got some relationship with the Supreme Lord. That we have now forgotten. So it is not the question of desire. It is there. You don't desire to become one's son, you are already one's son.
You simply do not know. Similarly, your relationship with Krsna is there, every one of us, but I have forgotten; I do not know. This Krsna consciousness practice will revive your relationship in what way, in which way you are related with Krsna. It is not that you have to desire.
No. It is already there. You have to desire only how to revive it, that's all. That is Krsna consciousness. It is not an artificial thing. Just like we are establishing some relationship with somebody or you are my father or you are my wife, you are my husband. No. It is already there. Simply we have to find out.
That will be revealed when you are perfect in Krsna consciousness, brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati, you are freed from all material contamination, and you are perfectly situated in devotional service; it will be at once revealed: "Oh, you are related to Krsna." You will have to wait for that. Bhagavad-gita Los Angeles, November 23, 1968
Paramahamsa – “But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return.
Srila Prabhupada – “There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is”.
Paramahamsa – “If we want”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes”.
Paramahamsa – “So we can come to the spiritual world and return?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes”.
Paramahamsa – “Fall down?”
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go." Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness”.
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It’s not so difficult to ‘realize’ that long, long, long, long ago we were with Krishna as our permanent real nitya-siddha body but have now chosen not only to forget Krishna, but also forget that nitya-siddha body within the realm of perpetual originality called Vaikuntha
When a devotee regains his/hers original Krsna Consciousness and re-establishes ‘the awareness’ of their nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka, which is never lost while dreaming as nitya-baddha in the perishable creation, does not mean that one is only restricted by one particular svarupa (body) for eternity in Krishna's pastimes
Ones eternal body is not limited to any particular nitya-siddha body they have there.
Also there are examples of devotees participating in the pastimes of the Lord in more than one svarupa at the same time, therefore our eternal rasa can change in Goloka; even though our nitya siddha or rasa body is perpetually situated in Goloka as a two armed form in it’s originality as Srila Prabhupada confirms -
Yasomatinandana – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs". Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975
So unlike the material bodies in the mahat-tattva that are temporary decaying vessels the nitya-baddha consciousness moves around in, we ARE our body (nitya-siddha) in Goloka though, that body can transform because our eternal svarupa is interchangeable.
For example, ones svarupa can change to a four-armed form in the Vaikuntha Planets or a different form in Lord Caitanya's pastimes in the top most platform in Goloka that He sometimes brings to the material world as pastimes, although very rare.
In simple terms, one has the ability to ‘shape shift’ into any form to please Krsna Caitanya and can also be in many places in various forms at the same time.
Caitanya Caritamrita is full of such examples. Most are Vishnu tattva expansions although there are many jiva tattva’s like Naradha Muni as well. No jiva tattva in Lord Caitanya Lila is restricted only to their two-armed perpetual svarupa-nitya-siddha body
Srivasa Thakura is known as Narada Muni, he also has his svarupa manifestation in Goloka. Therefore, by the elegance of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Narada Muni is also simultaneously situated in the top most regions of Goloka where Caitanya Mahaprabhu's endless pastimes are going on.
Further more, Srila Prabhupada has explained that Narada Muni enters the material world often disguised in different bodily vessels to preach Krishna Consciousness.
Who can understand the multidimensional full potential abilities of the liberated nitya-siddha souls?
Srila Prabhupada mentions in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 of the Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna says - "Don't you remember me? I was your very close friend, but you gave up My Company and came to this material world".
When asked directly about whether the jiva was ever in the spiritual world, Srila Prabhupada mentions in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 of the Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna (in the form of a Brahmana) says to King Puranjana (in his next life, as the daughter of Kind Vidarbha) "Don't you remember me? I was your very close friend, but you gave up My Company and came to this material world".
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.52: The Brahmana inquired as follows: Who are you? Whose wife or daughter are you? Who is the man laying here? It appears you are lamenting for this dead body. Don't you recognize Me? I am your eternal friend. You may remember that many times in the past you have consulted Me.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53: The Brahmana continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.54: My dear gentle friend, both you and I are exactly like two swans. We live together in the same heart, which is just like the Mānasa Lake. Although we have been living together for many thousands of years, we are still far away from our original home.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.55: My dear friend, you are now My very same friend. Since you left Me, you have become more and more materialistic, and not seeing Me, you have been travelling in different forms throughout this material world, which was created by some woman.
In understanding Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 7 Chapter 1 Text 35 Purport one has to first understand that Jaya and Vijaya caused an offence to Brahmanas and as a result were given two choices to atone from their offence.
They could either take three births in the material world as demons or they could take seven births as devotees. They chose to be in the material body as powerful demons so they could get back to Vaikuntha quicker. After all they were trapped in bodies that were under the control of past, present and future.
Now they come from Vaikuntha under Krishna’s compassion meaning they were given the opportunity to engage in Krishna’s pastimes while in the material world as Demons, so when their offence was atoned they were immediately re-established in their eternal original svarupa in Vaikuntha back within the eternal presence of Krishna Consciousness.
It must be understood they new they made a mistake by offending Brahmanas; at no point did they give up Krishna as we have done.
In other parts of Srila Prabhupada’s writings, he calls their offence as a fall down, this is why in the purport of the Srimad Bhagavatam 7.1.35 Srila Prabhupada says “This very significant question would be difficult for an ordinary person to answer, but Narada Muni, being an authority, could answer it”.
Now those who are associates of the Lord of course do not leave Goloka for the material dream or fall down AS LONG AS THEY CHOOSE TO SERVE KRISHNA however, there are those, less than 10% of Krishna jiva-tattva associates in Vaikuntha and Goloka, who DO choose to come to this material world and forget Krishna, they are only interested in their own exploits and want nothing to do with Krishna.
That can include any jiva-tattva (marginal) associate of Krishnas in Goloka who no longer choose to be an associate, any jiva-tattva can leave Goloka for the material creation, but most choose not to make that mistake. The important point is THERE IS ALWAYS CHOICE.
They therefore think, dream or imagine they fall – actually no falls from Vaikuntha because their nitya-siddha body is perpetually fixed there within the eternal presence of Krishna’s pastimes.
As the CC states all marginal living entities are originally nitya-siddha and only the Vishnu-tattvas never forget their position in Krishna lila. Some come to the material creation in Krishna’s lila while others come to for fill their own selfish dreams.
As there are no killing of demons in Vaikuntha, Krishna plays this role as His Vishnu expansion in the material creation with all his nitya siddha jiva-tattvas and Vishnu-tattva associates however, there are other jiva-tattva souls who choose to leave Goloka simply because of their choice not to be with Krishna, THERE IS NO MATERIAL CAUSE FOR THEM FORGETTING GOLOKA OR VAIKUNTHA OTHER THAN FREE WILL AND CHOICE.
Srila Prabhupada makes it clear in the fourth canto of Srimad Bhagavatam and numerous lectures, letters and morning walks we originate from Goloka.
Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature as marginal living entities. We can misuse such independence even in Goloka or Vaikuntha with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.
This means a small minority, less than 10% of jiva-tattva nitya-siddha souls in Vaikuntha or Goloka choose to leave. For this purpose Krishna, via His Maha-Vishnu expansion, creates the mahat-tattva (material creation) for them.
The marginal living entities full potential of loving selfless devotion to Krishna and His loving devotees is based on individuality, independence and the right to choose; we never loose that right to choose, not even in Vaikuntha. Surrender to Krishna and His pure devotees do not mean to become mindless porns in Vaikuntha and 'yes' men/women to Krishna.
No, everything in Vaikuntha is based on reciprocal loving service even if it is a fact that we surrender selflessly and unconditionally. The fact is that’s how Krishna also treats us. Having free will and choice gives us the opportunity to give ourselves in our own unique way. That choice is always there even in Goloka or Vaikuntha and must be there if genuine love is to exist.
It is not that we first have to be contacted by the modes of material nature to fall down from Goloka or Vaikuntha. It’s all to do with a combination of choice and the sheer smallness of the marginal living entity.
And even then due to that smallness and choice, we only ‘think, imagine or dream’ we are fallen that we become fallen. The fact is we never fall; our nitya-siddha body never leaves Goloka
Srila Prabhupada – “ So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, "If I could be come the master." They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he's wrongly thinking”. July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C
Vipina Purandara – “Why doesn't Krishna protect us from that desire?
Srila Prabhupada – “He's protecting. He says, "You rascal, don't desire. Surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this”.
Vipina Purandara – “Why doesn't He save me from thinking like that? ”
Srila Prabhupada – “That means you lose your independence”.
Srila Prabhupada – “That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, 'You love me, you love me, you love me.' " Is it love? "You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? ”
Srila Prabhupada – “So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C
Regarding to how a nitya siddha in Goloka can fall down to nitya baddha in the material world, Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrndavana.
We can misuse such independence even in Goloka or Vaikuntha with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.
Maya is not the cause of ones fall down from Vaikuntha, that is not possible she only exists in the mahat-tattva. The cause of ones fall down is ones own independent desires of self importance based on free will and choice.
One simply chooses to no longer serve Krishna as their nitya siddha body. As a result, they eventually forget their nitya-siddha body and leave Vaikuntha and enter the mahat tattva as their nitya-baddha secondary self that is the sub-conscious non-Krishna conscious condition of the marginal living entity.
it should of been made clear that the entire universes of Krishna and His Vishnu-tattvas, jiva-tattvas, Goloka-Vrndavana, Vaikuntha’s and the mahat-tattva (material creation) and the impersonal Brahmajyoti are all collectively the Brahmajyoti or everything that is.
The Vaikuntha's were never created so the word ‘creation’ cannot be used for Goloka-Vrndavana and the Vaikuntha realm, nor can it be used to explain the marginal living entities (jiva-tattvas) or Krishna and His unlimited Vishnu-tattva expansions.
The word creation can only apply to the mahat-tattva material 'creation' because it has a beginning and end.
The ‘impersonal Brahmajyoti’ or the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky is actually a very small minority of souls in their baddha-jiva inferior feature that becomes established in that 'impersonal' dormant state due to the influence of being covered and frustrated within the mahat-tattva that souls fall to and are covered (material vessels that belong to the mahat-tattva) by when they choose to no longer serve Krsna in Goloka or Vaikuntha.
In other words, when souls become fed up with the material creation of changing material bodies or vessels, they can escape this cycle of birth and death by either realizing their full potential nitya-siddha body that is always in Goloka even while they ‘imagine’ themselves to be in the mahat-tattva, or they can cease to desire bodily activity (after much difficulty of casting off those subtle and gross material bodies) and enter an inactive dormant state of consciousness that is within and part of each marginal living entities capacity of expression, in this case inactivity.
The individual baddha-jivas who enter this ‘consciousness’ are expressing the impersonal side of their nature and is known as their impersonal Brahmajyoti feature. In other words the impersonal Brahmajyoti is the dormant inactive characteristic of the ‘baddha’-jiva
So where this painting is misleading is the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, is NOT some place within the over all universes but is rather a state of inactive consciousness ‘desired’ by the baddha-jiva aspect of the marginal living entity. (That ultimately is also only a temporary condition because the inherent nature of all marginal living entities is ‘activity’
Keep in mind the baddha-jiva consciousness is the sub-conscious or rebellious state of the soul that ignores ones Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha body or the full expression and potential that is the make up of every of every marginal living entity
Those who believe the jiva originates from some inactive state or from the Vraja River or the Body of Maha-Vishnu are actually propagating Impersonalism. The real facts are that all marginal living entities come from the pastimes of Krishna by their own foolish choice. This is the teaching of Srila Prabhupada.
Darkness cannot be left over in the presents of light because light dissipates all darkness. In other words while there is light (nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body), darkness (nitya-baddha condition) does not exist.
This means that when one’s ‘awareness’ is AGAIN situated as the eternal presents of their Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa body, the nitya-baddha sub-conscious darkness in the material creation no longer exists.
In the Vaikuntha/Goloka-Vrndavana realm the ecstasy of loving devotion between Krishna and His devotees are always forever expanding and increasing in a mood of reciprocation however, the nitya-siddha devotees are totally selfless and are only interested in serving unconditionally.
This is also due to the marginal living entities choosing to be always ‘aware’ of their nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious selfless perpetual body and continuously using their free-will to increase and expand their selfless loving devotion to Krishna.
As a result Krishna reciprocates and Goloka is therefore ever expanding. That means that what is now the topmost experience of loving devotion is overwhelmed by an even higher experience of love for Krishna and His devotees and again by a further overwhelming loving selfless devotion, this process is endlessly going on within the ‘eternal presence’ of Goloka
However, no-matter what devotional ‘rasa’ one is in, in Goloka or Vaikuntha, the act of free will also allows one to foolishly choose to ‘forget Goloka’ and the ‘nitya-siddha body’ they eternally are if they desire.
That choice must always be there at any ‘instant’ in Goloka if there is to be genuine love. Srila Prabhupada tells us that fortunately less than 10% of marginal living entities make that dreaded choice to ‘sub-consciously’ leave Goloka or Vaikuntha.
When this choice happens, the ‘AWARENESS’ of the marginal living entities nitya-siddha body is forgotten and ‘transformed’ to only being ‘AWARE’ of their restricted secondary nitya-baddha consciousness that can only find refuge or shelter within the mahat-tattva (material creation) bodily creations of Maha-Vishnu.
So the nitya-siddha full Krishna conscious body (svarupa) and nitya-baddha sub-consciousness are NOT separate marginal living entities, as some believe, they are in fact different dispositions of the one individual marginal living entity.
Although we think of progress in terms of past, present and future in the material world it is not of the same nature as in Goloka. The seasons are all simultaneously existing within the Goloka and still Krishna and His devotees can enter them in an ever-expanding progression.
The ‘eternal presence’ means one is so absorbed in loving selfless service to Krishna that one neither experiences the passing of time nor the impermanence and decay of a temporary bodily vessel as found in the material creation.
What is possible in Goloka is endless and full of marvel, revelation and keenness and way beyond the ordinary relativity of the conditioned side of the marginal living entities (nitya-baddha).
The events and dealings within the Goloka are truly within the unique nature of the absolute known as the ‘eternal presence of Krsna’s loving pastimes’.
Some have clearly misunderstood the marginal living entities and wrongly believe they are not tatastha-s’akti also in Goloka and Vaikuntha and that there is a third kind of living entity that is above the concept of marginal.
The fact is there are only two types of living entities, Vishnu-tattva and jiva-tattva (marginal or tatastha-s’akti) as Srila Prabhupada explains.
Srila Prabhupada – “In the Padma Purana, wherein it is said that there are two kinds of spiritual entities; one is called the jiva, and the other is called the Supreme Lord”. Bhaktivedanta purport of the Eighty-seventh Chapter of Krsna, “Prayers by the Personified Vedas.”
When we talk of fall down from Goloka, it will always be a touchy subject because some will always believe once in the Goloka pastimes of Lord Krishna, one never falls down. The fact is in most cases they don’t.
The following Conversation took place in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples.
Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krishna, we have a perfect relationship with Krishna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krishna?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.” And as soon as you associate with the material nature, then you fall down”.
Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…”
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire. Because he has associated with a different type of material quality…”
Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. You forced Krishna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer”. What can be done? Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy”.
Srila Prabhupada - “So to go to Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body”. Germany, June 22, 1974
Srila Prabhupada - “As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself.
In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains.
Now he is in his original position. Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
Srila Prabhupada - “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.”(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)
Your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa ACBSP
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