On the Absolute level, even though it is said Krsna created Radharani, in actual fact, She is ALWAYS part and parcel of Krsna, Radharani has always eternally existed with Krsna.
In the spiritual world there is no past or future detection of time, there is only the "eternal presence."
So, even though for the purpose of lila (pastime) it says Krsna created Radharani, in actual fact She is eternal like Krsna and always has been with Krsna because She IS Kṛṣṇa.
Srila Prabhupada - "There is no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be a new soul?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 9th July 1970)
All individual jīva-souls are ETERNAL persons in the spiritual and material worlds therefore, there are no new jiva-souls being created because they have ALWAYS existed, meaning they are beginningless and endless.
Maha-Visnu does not create the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) as some big scholars foolishly believe and teach their students.
What happens is the individual jiva-souls go to Maha-Visnu first after falling down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, to aquire (hire) a material bodily vessel so they can enter the material creation.
No jiva-souls originates from Maha-Visnu, they go through Him on their way to the material world.
Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions where are the spirit souls coming from? These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new soul. New and old are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be new soul?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 9th July 1970)
All jiva-souls are beginningless and endless, they were NEVER created, not even by Krsna and are just as old as Kṛṣṇa which means they NEVER cease to exist.
The implications of this comment is mind boggling because it ALSO means that over an never ending eternity, you (the individual jiva-soul) can experience "being" EVERY material bodily form there is in the material world.
Understanding the meaning of the term "marginal energy."
The jiva-souls are known as Krsna's “marginal energy,” the marginal energy (jiva-souls) are individual living entities and NOT some place where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm ARE the individual jiva-souls!
This simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence of either the spiritual energy or under the influence of the material energy.
The marginal realm or potency is NOT a place, as clearly said above the marginal potency ARE the individual jiva-souls.
Many misunderstand this fact.
There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva souls), who have existed as long as Krsna has existed.
The marginal platform means the "jiva-souls" or spirit souls, who naturally belong as individuals in the supreme spiritual energy with Krsna, are called "marginal living entities" because they can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or material energy eternally, explained as follows by Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom.” (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul) Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Therefore, being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some imaginary place in the Brahmajyoti.
First of all, being placed in the marginal category means having free will, or having the choice to be influenced by the spiritual energy (their nature position and full potential) or influenced by the material energy.
As said above, the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can be choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.
There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals.” (Lecture on BG 9.4 -Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity.” This means, just like Krsna, they are beginningless and endless and were NEVER created.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG, Ch 2 Text 12)
All marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are EQUALLY intimate and uniquely exclusively personal with Krsna (God) in His Kingdom regardless of the pastime. This is because in the spiritual world, ALL relationships with Krsna are "equally blissful to each other", just like one may like a carnation flower while others may choose to like a rose flower.
Srila Prabhupada - “The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
The jiva-souls are known as Krsna's “marginal energy,” the marginal energy (jiva-souls) are individual living entities and NOT some place where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm ARE the individual jiva-souls!
The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence of either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.
Krsna and the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) have always exist together like the Sun-disc and the sun-rays always exist together. Krsna is like the Sun-disc who maintains all the sun-rays (jiva-souls)
The jiva-souls are Krsna's part and parcel who are known as the "marginal living entities."
This means they can be influenced by either the spiritual or the material world. Having free will is also part and parcel of the jiva-soul's eternal constitution.
Nothing can happen without Krsna's sanction including free will however, for the jiva-souls to experience their full potential as individual thinking living beings they must have the freedom to voluntarily enter a two-sided relationship of loving exchanges with Krsna.
If Krsna never allowed free will, then He would be surrounded by mindless drones making Him cruel cold dictatorial uselss God!
Free will allows the jiva-souls to personally be aware they are unique individual, independent "persons" who can voluntarily choose to serve Krsna in a way they choose, or even reject Him.
Free will means it is the jiva-soul's choice of how to they want surrender and serve Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavana or Visnu on the Vaikuntha planets, or even not surrender to Krsna if they choose.
Although in the spiritual sky that is rare, more than 90% of jiva-souls never choose to foolishly reject Krsna, only less than 10% choose to reject Krsna and enter the material creation Prabhupada has explained.
If the jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana reject Visnu or Krsna, then they obviously cannot stay there.
The only place available for them is the temporary material creation meant for those who choose to leave the spiritual worlds.
It is also their choice of what they want to offer or contribute to the Lord, which is their very best from their personal abilities that they voluntary choose to selflessly offer to Krsna.
Each jiva-soul in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana knows when they please Krsna the best most by humbly and selflessly serving the servants of the servants of the servants of Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavan or Visnu on the Vaikuntha planets.
This selflessness of serving Krsna's devotees is the highest realization of love of God.
For the jiva-souls not to fall from God's personal Kingdom, is the jiva-soul's personal choice too, they are fully responsibility for their own individuality, and are aware of their independent choices, that Krsna will never interfere with, even if they choose to reject Krsna.
This "free will" allows them to voluntarily choose as they want, and nobody else, including Krsna, will interfere with that choice because Krsna never forces the jiva-souls to love Him at the point of a gun.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, "You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - ''Because you are Son of God you have got independence, so God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that "I must go and enjoy independently," God says, "All right, you can go and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada explains in "Nectar of Devotion", that just like the Sun-disc cannot be separated from the sun-rays, similarly the living entities have no meaning without Krsna, and Kṛṣṇa has no meaning without the living entities.
In Krsna Book Prabhupada explains-
"As the Sun-disc and the sunshine cannot be separated, similarly Kṛṣṇa and His bodily rays, the brahmajyoti, cannot be separated." (Krsna Book, 89)
As explained above, the relationship between Krsna and His jiva-soul individual expansions (marginal living entities) is never "one-sided," never forced and never impersonal, it is always a personal relationship of reciprocation, nurturing, voluntary service, in a "two-way" mood of loving service, only then can there be genuine loving exchanges in a relationship..××
Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness, so how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)
Loving personal expressions and unique contribution, can only work when there are "two-sided" voluntary exchanges in a relationship.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love cannot be experienced with only one, or executed by only one, there MUST be two." (SB lecture Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is a reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, personally. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City, Nov 23, 1966)
Srila Prabhupāda – "Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
Having "free will" allows the jiva-souls to be the individual independent PERSON they are eternally in God's perpetual Kingdom, where they always choose to voluntarily contribute their own personal unique offerings to Krsna.**
The "marginal potency" ARE the collective of individual jiva-souls who were never created, have no origin, nor will they ever cease to be as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains.
Many have misunderstood these facts about what "marginal" really means.
It is NOT some place in outer space where jiva-souls are generated or originate from because they have no origin.
Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some "so called place" in the Brahmajyoti, Spiritual Sky, Maha-Visnu or tatastha-sakti and the impersonal brahmajyoti that foolish religious cults wrongly claim.
As clearly explained, the jiva-souls, being "marginal," means they are "in-between" the influence of spirit and matter, and can choose either side at anytime.
This means they can choose "one-side (spiritual) or the other-side (material)" because they have free will.
They can choose the spiritual side (the jiva-soul's nature position and full potential), or the material side (unnatural conditioned state)
So, the real meaning of "marginal" is the jiva-souls can choose to be with the spiritual energy, or the material energy, based on their free will.
There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna - beginningless.
The marginal energy or potency is NOT some place in the Spiritual Sky where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm, who ARE the jiva-souls, have NO origin and have existed for infinity.
The individual jiva-souls are everywhere in both the spiritual and material worlds and always have existed without having any origin nor will they ever cease to be.
The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence (by choice) of either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.
Marginal means the jiva-souls are in-between the the spiritual energy and the material energy.
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls), who are spiritual beings by nature, are "in-between" the influence of matter and spirit (allowing themselves to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy), this is why they are called "marginal" which means in-between.
So, clearly the marginal potency is NOT a place where jiva-souls are generate or originate from as said above.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals.” (Lecture on BG 9.4 - Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your question about our relationship with Srimati Radharani, She is the internal energy, we are marginal energy. Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy; we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati - Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)
The "jiva-souls," who naturally belong in the spiritual energy (Goloka-Vrindavana) as individual spiritual PERSONS with Krsna, are eternal PERSONS and are called "marginal living entities" because they are influenced by either the spiritual energy or the material energy explained as follows by Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom.” (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul). Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG, As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity.” This means, just like Krsna, they are beginning less and endless, and were NEVER created-
There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna - beginningless.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG, Ch 2 Text 12)
Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)
There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls), who have existed for as long as Krsna has existed which is eternity.
Therefore, jiva-souls do NOT originate from anywhere, and certainly not from the so called marginal plane because it is NOT a place in the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti.
The "jiva-souls," who naturally belong in the spiritual energy (Goloka-Vrindavana and on the Vaikuntha planets) as individual spiritual PERSONS with Krsna, are eternal PERSONS and are called "marginal living entities" because they are influenced by either the spiritual energy or the material energy explained by Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupāda - "Goloka-Vṛndāvana is larger than all the material planets in the material world, and Vaikuntha planets in the spiritual world put together." (TLC, Ch 14)
Of course in the material creation there is almost no free will while trapped in the species of material life, there is only the instinct of-
eating,
sleeping,
mating,
defending.
The human species are also directed by karmic reactions (the reactions to their pious and impious actions) because in the human material bodily form the living entities are responsible for their actions good or bad.
Real freedom or free will only fully exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Understanding free will and one's eternal individual right to make their own choices and contributions in the spiritual world, is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls)**.
The correct understanding of free will, surrender and genuine loving voluntary exchanges and reciprocation between devotees, is not maturely understood during these early pioneering years within ISKCON.
The subject of free will, surrender and loving exchanges is often misunderstood, ignored or overlooked.
Many over the years have foolishly claimed that "surrendering" to Krsna means giving up your "free will" and self expression in the spiritual world, and let Krsna do all the thinking for you eternally like a puppet is controlled be strings.
I eventually learnt that such mindless philosophy was dangerous nonsense because if we have no free will, then we are no better than dead stone and such philosophy is really impersonalism.
The following quotes are from Srila Prabhupada regarding surrender, free will and love-
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love?" (Teheran, Iran, Aug 9th, 1976)
Real love or Bhakti is a "two-way" street based on selfless devotion to God (Krsna)
Loving expressions on the highest level is achieved by volunteering to work or serve in Krsna's plan under the instructions of a His bonafide spiritual master.
And by helping the spiritual Master bring back all the fallen jiva-souls trapped in this mundane material creation, and encourage them to return back home, back to Godhead.
Choosing to serve the servants of the servants of the servants of Krsna is the highest expression of selflessness and love of God.
But first one must understand who they really are as an individual jiva-soul, which is NOT the material bodily vessel they are covered by within the material world, but the eternal individual jiva-soul (spiritual personality) within the material body.
In their full spiritual bodily potential, the jiva-souls are eternal servants of God (Krsna), who perpetually have free will in the spiritual world that had no beginning point and will never end.
Each jiva-soul eternally have their own independent unique individual identity and personality separate from Krsna's Personality eternally.
Loving relationships are always a "two-way" street based on reciprocation, loving exchanges and voluntary participation in the Kingdom of God.
The expression of real love or service is never a slave domineering mindless one-way "master/ slave servant" relationship in the spiritual world that only destroys one's free will, sense of individual personality (self) that allows one to voluntarily offer their choices, and select who they want to be in both Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.
In the spiritual world ALL relationships with Krsna are "equally blissful to each other", just like one may like a carnation flower while others may choose to like a rose flower.
Srila Prabhupada - “The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
The individual jiva-souls are collectively known as Krsna's “marginal energy.”
This marginal energy or potency is NOT some place in the Spiritual Sky where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm, who ARE the jiva-souls have no origin.
The individual jiva-souls are everywhere in both the spiritual and material worlds and always have existed without having any origin.
The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence of either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.
In actual fact, the jiva-souls are in-between the spiritual energy (realm) and the material energy (realm), this is why they are called marginal (in-between).
So, clearly the marginal potency is NOT a place where jiva-souls come from, the marginal potency ARE the individual jiva-souls who were never created and have no origin, nor will they ever cease to be as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains.
Many have misunderstood these facts about what really means. It is NOT some place souls are generated from in outer space.
Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some "so called place" in the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky, including tatastha-sakti that foolish sangas and their nonsense guru's foolishly claim.
First of all, being "marginal" means having free will, or having the choice to be influenced by the spiritual energy (the jiva-souls nature position and full potential) or influenced by the material energy (unnatural conditioned state)
As said above, the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.
There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals.” (Lecture on BG 9.4 -Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity”
This means, just like Krsna, they are beginning less and endless, and were NEVER created-
Bhagavad Gita - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 12 also confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created.
This is because they have no origin and have existed for infinity like Krsna has, as Krsna explains-
Bhagavad Gita - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG 2.12)
Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)
There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls), who have existed for as long as Krsna has existed which is eternity.
Therefore jiva-souls do NOT originate from the marginal plane.
The marginal platform means the "jiva-souls" or spirit souls, who naturally belong as individuals in the supreme spiritual energy (Goloka-Vrindavana) with Krsna, are called "marginal living entities" because they can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or material energy eternally, explained as follows by Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom.” (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul). Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Of course in the material creation there is almost no free will while trapped in the species of material life, there is only the instinct of eating, sleeping, mating and defending.
The human species are also directed by karmic reactions because in the human form the living entities are responsible for their actions good or bad.
Real freedom or free will only fully exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Understanding free will and one's eternal individual right to make their own choices and contributions in the spiritual world, is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls)
No two jiva-souls are the same, each has their own unique individual personality, sense of self, character and personality when engaging in loving exchanges with Krsna.
In Goloka-Vrindavana there must always be reciprocation between the jiva-soul and Krsna. Loving exchanges must always exist, so the jiva souls naturally express their own unique personality and sense of independent self while choosing to serve Krsna.
The fact is each jiva-soul has their own unique individuality that eternally allows them to make their own personal offerings and choices while serving Krsna or Visnu in the spiritual world.
Such free will is the basic make up and foundation of every marginal living entity's (jiva-soul) unique independent character and personality in both Goloka-Vrindavan and Vaikuntha.
Otherwise without free will one is just dead stone Srila Prabhupada tells us.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - "In Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me. Is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that."(Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Srila Prabhupāda - "Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, there is exchange. Giving something, taking something, feeding something and to eat something, and speaking everything, no secrecy, and to know everything of the other person. When these things are transacted, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Evening Darsana, Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
This eternally existing spiritual social code of free will, that includes an independent sense of a self and individuality, is the eternal constitution of all individual jiva-souls and is part and parcel of their character and personality.
Each jiva-soul has these attributes without beginning or end and is part of every marginal living entities (jiva-souls) eternal constitution.
This allows the jiva-soul to personally always be aware that they are a unique individual independent person while serving Krsna, being different from all other living entities in the Spiritual Sky.
Free will means it is the jiva soul's choice of how to they want surrender and serve Krsna, or even not surrender if they choose however, the majority of jiva-souls, over 90% of jiva-souls never make that foolish choice and enter the temporary decaying material creation.
Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be done or love cannot be executed with only one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture on SB Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
Love can only exist when there are two involved in loving exchanges.
Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness. So how can there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience? Love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He's so lover of you that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture on SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)
The jiva-soul in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, never lose their free will, which means their own individual ability of self expression when choosing to offer their own personal contributions that is unique to each of the individual jiva-soul or jiva-tattva.
Each jiva-soul in their full natural ''svarupa'' potential in the spiritual world's of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, has this eternal marginal quality of free will and independent personality, which is part and parcel of the jiva-souls perpetual constitutional makeup.
In this way, each of jiva-soul has their own individual identity, character, personality, likes and dislikes and being one of kind in the Spiritual Sky, independent from all other jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa.
All individual jiva-souls are different, each has their own unique individual personality, character and independent identity. This eternally existing makeup or constitution of each jiva-soul, is without any beginning or ending point, and is part and parcel of every marginal living entities (jiva-souls)
This allows the jiva-soul to "personally" always be aware of their own individuality and independent nature while serving Krsna in their very best way, that is different from all other living entities in the Spiritual Sky.
This is a very important point to understand as we progress and mature in our Krsna Consciousness. The relationship between Krsna and the jiva-soul is never one-sided, never forced, never impersonal, it is always reciprocal, nurturing, personal and voluntary, in a mood of good exchanges and feelings, only then can there be real love.
Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."
Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."
Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is "free will". He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions Srila Prabhupada about Rene Descartes)
Bali Mardana - "An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that an example of free will?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa."(Morning Walk, Jan 22, 1974, Hawaii)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)..**..
Sadly we foolishly identify with that decaying material body we are in as a passenger thinking we are that temporary material body.
Krsna is not the cause of our suffering in this material world, we are, caused by our own misuse of free will, mistaken desires and actions performed over unlimited life times.
The individual jiva-souls are eternal which means they are beginningless and endless, never created and forever existing like Krsna.
By chanting Hare Krsna attentively and honestly, like a child crying out for its mother, Krsna will minimise the burden of our past misdeeds coming to us over unlimited past life times.
Our Karma (good and bad actions) goes back unlimited life times because the individual jiva-souls were never created, nor will they cease to be therefore, we do not remember from what previous life we are now suffering or enjoying for.
We should never give up our faith in Krsna, He is not the cause of our suffering or enjoyment in these temporary material bodies.
The fact is, free will allows us to make so many choices independent from Krsna however, remember, we are responsible for our actions, good and bad, not Kṛṣṇa.
Krsna will free us from our suffering, from all our Karma if we genuinely turn to Him for help as promised in Bhagavad Gita As It Is, so please always chant Hare Krsna, just like a child cries out for the attention of its mother.
Also, do not allow some of today's immature devotees, sannyasis and gurus during these early pioneering years of ISKCON miss guide you, their immature presence is temporary, eventually that will change as ISKCON matures.
Many dictatorial leaders and bullies in the garb of devotees and sannyasis over the years, have now passed on allowing for more mature, honest advanced devotees to replace them, this process is still going on as ISKCON is only a mere 58 years old in 2024, still in its very early pioneering years.
Always think of Krsna and chant His name no matter how difficult the pathway of devotional service becomes, or how other so called immature devotees from this era try to manipulate you, bully you, or put you down.
No lie (bogus leaders) can live forever, they can exist in their clever manipulative dictatorship for a long time however, eventually they will always fall, or just die of old age, nothing lasts forever in this material world.
Krsna and His REAL pure devotees will NEVER ever abandon you, even if you have committed the most abominable actions. Always chant Hare Krsna.^^^.
Srimad Bhagavatam 5 Canto Chapter 25 Text 1 to Text 15
By His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
In this chapter, Śukadeva Gosvāmī describes Ananta, the source of Lord Śiva. Lord Ananta, whose body is completely spiritual, resides at the root of the planet Pātāla. He always lives in the core of Lord Śiva’s heart, and He helps him destroy the universe.
Ananta instructs Lord Śiva how to destroy the cosmos, and thus He is sometimes called tāmasī, or “one who is in the mode of darkness.”
He is the original Deity of material consciousness, and because He attracts all living entities, He is sometimes known as Saṅkarṣaṇa.
The entire material world is situated on the hoods of Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa.
From His forehead He transmits to Lord Śiva the power to destroy this material world.
Because Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa is an expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, many devotees offer Him prayers, and in the planetary system of Pātāla, all the suras, asuras, Gandharvas, Vidyādharas and learned sages offer Him their respectful obeisances.
The Lord talks with them in a sweet voice. His bodily construction is completely spiritual and very, very beautiful. Anyone who hears about Him from a proper spiritual master becomes free from all material conceptions of life. The entire material energy is working according to the plans of Anantadeva.
Therefore we should regard Him as the root cause of the material creation. There is no end to His strength, and no one can fully describe Him, even with countless mouths.
Therefore He is called Ananta (unlimited). Being very merciful toward all living entities, He has exhibited His spiritual body. Śukadeva Gosvāmī describes the glories of Anantadeva to Mahārāja Parīkṣit in this way.
SB 5.25.1
Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said to Mahārāja Parīkṣit: My dear King, approximately 240,000 miles beneath the planet Pātāla lives another incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
He is the expansion of Lord Viṣṇu known as Lord Ananta or Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa. He is always in the transcendental position, but because He is worshiped by Lord Śiva, the deity of tamo-guṇa or darkness, He is sometimes called tāmasī.
Lord Ananta is the predominating Deity of the material mode of ignorance as well as the false ego of all conditioned souls.
When a conditioned living being thinks, “I am the enjoyer, and this world is meant to be enjoyed by me,” this conception of life is dictated to him by Saṅkarṣaṇa. Thus the mundane conditioned soul thinks himself the Supreme Lord.
Purport:
There is a class of men akin to Māyāvādī philosophers who misinterpret the ahaṁ brahmāsmi and so ’ham Vedic mantras to mean, “I am the Supreme Brahman” and “I am identical with the Lord.”
This kind of false conception, in which one thinks himself the supreme enjoyer, is a kind of illusion. It is described elsewhere in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (5.5.8): janasya moho ’yam ahaṁ mameti.
As explained in the above verse, Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa is the predominating Deity of this false conception. Kṛṣṇa confirms this in Bhagavad-gītā (15.15):
sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca
“I am seated in everyone’s heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness.”
The Lord is situated in everyone’s heart as Saṅkarṣaṇa, and when a demon thinks himself one with the Supreme Lord, the Lord keeps him in that darkness.
Although such a demoniac living entity is only an insignificant part of the Supreme Lord, he forgets his true position and thinks he is the Supreme Lord.
Because this forgetfulness is created by Saṅkarṣaṇa, He is sometimes called tāmasī. The name tāmasī does not indicate that He has a material body. He is always transcendental, but because He is the Supersoul of Lord Śiva, who must perform tamasic activities, Saṅkarṣaṇa is sometimes called tāmasī.
SB 5.25.2
Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: This great universe, situated on one of Lord Anantadeva’s thousands of hoods, appears just like a white mustard seed. It is infinitesimal compared to the hood of Lord Ananta.
SB 5.25.3
At the time of devastation, when Lord Anantadeva desires to destroy the entire creation, He becomes slightly angry. Then from between His two eyebrows appears three-eyed Rudra, carrying a trident.
This Rudra, who is known as Sāṅkarṣaṇa, is the embodiment of the eleven Rudras, or incarnations of Lord Śiva. He appears in order to devastate the entire creation.
Purport:
In each creation, the living entities are given a chance to close their business as conditioned souls. When they misuse this opportunity and do not go back home, back to Godhead, Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa becomes angry.
The eleven Rudras, expansions of Lord Śiva, come out of Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa’s eyebrows due to His angry mood, and all of them together devastate the entire creation.
SB 5.25.4
The pink, transparent toenails on the Lord’s lotus feet are exactly like valuable gems polished to a mirror finish. When the unalloyed devotees and the leaders of the snakes offer their obeisances to Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa with great devotion, they become very joyful upon seeing their own beautiful faces reflected in His toenails.
Their cheeks are decorated with glittering earrings, and the beauty of their faces is extremely pleasing to see.
SB 5.25.5
Lord Ananta’s arms are attractively long, beautifully decorated with bangles and completely spiritual. They are white, and so they appear like silver columns.
When the beautiful princesses of the serpent kings, hoping for the Lord’s auspicious blessing, smear His arms with aguru pulp, sandalwood pulp and kuṅkuma, the touch of His limbs awakens lusty desires within them.
Understanding their minds, the Lord looks at the princesses with a merciful smile, and they become bashful, realizing that He knows their desires.
Then they smile beautifully and look upon the Lord’s lotus face, which is beautified by reddish eyes rolling slightly from intoxication and delighted by love for His devotees.
Purport:
When males and females touch each other’s bodies, their lusty desires naturally awaken. It appears from this verse that there are similar sensations in spiritual bodies.
Both Lord Ananta and the women giving Him pleasure had spiritual bodies. Thus all sensations originally exist in the spiritual body.
This is confirmed in the Vedānta-sūtra: janmādy asya yataḥ. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has commented in this connection that the word ādi means ādi-rasa, the original lusty feeling, which is born from the Supreme.
However, spiritual lust and material lust are as completely different as gold and iron.
Only one who is very highly elevated in spiritual realization can understand the lusty feelings exchanged between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, or between Kṛṣṇa and the damsels of Vraja.
Therefore, unless one is very experienced and advanced in spiritual realization, he is forbidden to discuss the lusty feelings of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs.
However, if one is a sincere and pure devotee, the material lust in his heart is completely vanquished as he discusses the lusty feelings between the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa, and he makes quick progress in spiritual life.
SB 5.25.6
Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa is the ocean of unlimited spiritual qualities, and thus He is known as Anantadeva. He is nondifferent from the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
For the welfare of all living entities within this material world, He resides in His abode, restraining His anger and intolerance.
Purport:
Anantadeva’s main mission is to dissolve this material creation, but He checks His anger and intolerance. This material world is created to give the conditioned souls another chance to go back home, back to Godhead, but most of them do not take advantage of this facility.
After the creation, they again exercise their old propensity for lording it over the material world. These activities of the conditioned souls anger Anantadeva, and He desires to destroy the entire material world.
Yet, because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is kind toward us and checks His anger and intolerance. Only at certain times does He express His anger and destroy the material world.
SB 5.25.7
Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: The demigods, the demons, the Uragas [serpentine demigods], the Siddhas, the Gandharvas, the Vidyādharas and many highly elevated sages constantly offer prayers to the Lord.
Because He is intoxicated, the Lord looks bewildered, and His eyes, appearing like flowers in full bloom, move to and fro.
He pleases His personal associates, the heads of the demigods, by the sweet vibrations emanating from His mouth. Dressed in bluish garments and wearing a single earring, He holds a plow on His back with His two beautiful and well-constructed hands.
Appearing as white as the heavenly King Indra, He wears a golden belt around His waist and a vaijayantī garland of ever-fresh tulasī blossoms around His neck.
Bees intoxicated by the honeylike fragrance of the tulasī flowers hum very sweetly around the garland, which thus becomes more and more beautiful. In this way, the Lord enjoys His very magnanimous pastimes.
SB 5.25.8
If persons who are very serious about being liberated from material life hear the glories of Anantadeva from the mouth of a spiritual master in the chain of disciplic succession, and if they always meditate upon Saṅkarṣaṇa, the Lord enters the cores of their hearts, vanquishes all the dirty contamination of the material modes of nature, and cuts to pieces the hard knot within the heart, which has been tied tightly since time immemorial by the desire to dominate material nature through fruitive activities.
Nārada Muni, the son of Lord Brahmā, always glorifies Anantadeva in his father’s assembly. There he sings blissful verses of his own composition, accompanied by his stringed instrument [or a celestial singer] known as Tumburu.
Purport:
None of these descriptions of Lord Anantadeva are imaginary. They are all transcendentally blissful and full of actual knowledge. However, unless one hears them directly from a bona fide spiritual master in the line of disciplic succession, one cannot understand them.
This knowledge is delivered to Nārada by Lord Brahmā, and the great saint Nārada, along with his companion, Tumburu, distributes it all over the universe. Sometimes the Supreme Personality of Godhead is described as Uttamaśloka, one who is praised by beautiful poetry.
Nārada composes various poems to glorify Lord Ananta, and therefore the word saṁślokayām āsa (praised by selected poetry) is used in this verse.
The Vaiṣṇavas in the Gauḍīya-sampradāya belong to the disciplic succession stemming from Lord Brahmā. Lord Brahmā is the spiritual master of Nārada, Nārada is the spiritual master of Vyāsadeva, and Vyāsadeva wrote the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as a commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra.
Therefore all devotees in the Gauḍīyasampradāya accept the activities of Lord Ananta related in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as authentic, and they are thus benefited by going back home, back to Godhead.
The contamination in the heart of a conditioned soul is like a huge accumulation of garbage created by the three modes of material nature, especially the modes of rajas (passion) and tamas (ignorance).
This contamination becomes manifest in the form of lusty desires and greed for material possessions. As confirmed herein, unless one receives transcendental knowledge in disciplic succession, there is no question of his becoming purified of this contamination.
SB 5.25.9
By His glance, the Supreme Personality of Godhead enables the modes of material nature to act as the causes of universal creation, maintenance and destruction.
The Supreme Soul is unlimited and beginningless, and although He is one, He has manifested Himself in many forms. How can human society understand the ways of the Supreme?
Purport:
From Vedic literature we learn that when the Supreme Lord glances (sa aikṣata) over the material energy, the three modes of material nature become manifest and create material variety.
Before He glances over the material energy, there is no possibility of the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the material world.
The Lord existed before the creation, and consequently He is eternal and unchanging. Therefore how can any human being, however great a scientist or philosopher he may be, understand the ways of the Supreme Personality of Godhead?
The following quotations from Caitanya-bhāgavata (Ādi-khaṇḍa, 1.48-52 and 1.58-69) tell of the glories of Lord Ananta:
ki brahmā, ki śiva, ki sanakādi ‘kumāra’
vyāsa, śuka, nāradādi, ‘bhakta’ nāma yāṅra
“Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, the four Kumāras [Sanaka, Sanātana, Sanandana and Sanāt-kumāra], Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī and Nārada are all pure devotees, eternal servants of the Lord.
sabāra pūjita śrī-ananta-mahāśaya
sahasra-vadana prabhu — bhakti-rasamaya
“Lord Śrī Ananta is worshiped by all the uncontaminated devotees mentioned above. He has thousands of hoods and is the reservoir of all devotional service.
ādideva, mahā-yogī, ‘īśvara’, ‘vaiṣṇava’
mahimāra anta iṅhā nā jānaye saba
“Lord Ananta is the original person and the great mystic controller. At the same time, He is a servant of God, a Vaiṣṇava. Since there is no end to His glories, no one can understand Him fully.
sevana śunilā, ebe śuna ṭhākurāla
ātma-tantre yena-mate vaisena pātāla
“I have already spoken to you of His service to the Lord. Now hear how the self-sufficient Anantadeva exists in the lower planetary system of Pātāla.
śrī-nārada-gosāñi ‘tumburu’ kari’ saṅge
se yaśa gāyena brahmā-sthāne śloka-vandhe
“Bearing his stringed instrument, the tumburu, on his shoulders, the great sage Nārada Muni always glorifies Lord Ananta. Nārada Muni has composed many transcendental verses in praise of the Lord.
sṛṣṭi, sthiti, pralaya, sattvādi yata guṇa
yāṅra dṛṣṭi-pāte haya, yāya punaḥ punaḥ
“Simply due to the glance of Lord Ananta, the three material modes of nature interact and produce creation, maintenance and annihilation. These modes of nature appear again and again.
advitīya-rūpa, satya anādi mahattva
tathāpi ‘ananta’ haya, ke bujhe se tattva?
“The Lord is glorified as one without a second and as the supreme truth who has no beginning. Therefore He is called Anantadeva [unlimited]. Who can understand Him?
śuddha-sattva-mūrti prabhu dharena karuṇāya
ye-vigrahe sabāra prakāśa sulīlāya
“His form is completely spiritual, and He manifests it only by His mercy. All the activities in this material world are conducted only in His form.
yāṅhāra taraṅga śikhi’ siṁha mahāvalī
nija-jana-mano rañje hañā kutūhalī
“He is very powerful and always prepared to please His personal associates and devotees.
ye ananta-nāmera śravaṇa-saṅkīrtane
ye-te mate kene nāhi bole ye-te jane
aśeṣa-janmera bandha chiṇḍe sei-kṣaṇe
ataeva vaiṣṇava nā chāḍe kabhu tāne
“If we simply try to engage in the congregational chanting of the glories of Lord Anantadeva, the dirty things in our hearts, accumulated during many births, will immediately be washed away. Therefore a Vaiṣṇava never loses an opportunity to glorify Anantadeva.
‘śeṣa’ ba-i saṁsārera gati nāhi āra
anantera nāme sarva-jīvera uddhāra
“Lord Anantadeva is known as Śeṣa [the unlimited end] because He ends our passage through this material world. Simply by chanting His glories, everyone can be liberated.
ananta pṛthivī-giri samudra-sahite
ye-prabhu dharena gire pālana karite
“On His head, Anantadeva sustains the entire universe, with its millions of planets containing enormous oceans and mountains.
sahasra phaṇāra eka-phaṇe ‘bindu’ yena
ananta vikrama, nā jānena, ‘āche’ hena
“He is so large and powerful that this universe rests on one of His hoods just like a drop of water. He does not know where it is.
sahasra-vadane kṛṣṇa-yaśa nirantara
gāite āchena ādi-deva mahī-dhara
“While bearing the universe on one of His hoods, Anantadeva chants the glories of Kṛṣṇa with each of His thousands of mouths.
gāyena ananta, śrī-yaśera nāhi anta
jaya-bhaṅga nāhi kāru, doṅhe — balavanta
“Although He has been chanting the glories of Lord Kṛṣṇa since time immemorial, He has still not come to their end.
adyāpiha ‘śeṣa’-deva sahasra-śrī-mukhe
gāyena caitanya-yaśa anta nāhi dekhe
“To this very day, Lord Ananta continues to chant the glories of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and still He finds no end to them.”
SB 5.25.10
This manifestation of subtle and gross matter exists within the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Out of causeless mercy toward His devotees, He exhibits various forms, which are all transcendental.
The Supreme Lord is most liberal, and He possesses all mystic power. To conquer the minds of His devotees and give pleasure to their hearts, He appears in different incarnations and manifests many pastimes.
Purport:
Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has translated this verse as follows. “The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the cause of all causes. It is by His will that gross and subtle ingredients interact.
He appears in various incarnations just to please the hearts of His pure devotees.”
For example, the Supreme Lord appeared in the transcendental incarnation of Lord Varāha (the boar) just to please His devotees by lifting the planet earth from the Garbhodaka Ocean.
SB 5.25.11
Even if he be distressed or degraded, any person who chants the holy name of the Lord, having heard it from a bona fide spiritual master, is immediately purified.
Even if he chants the Lord’s name jokingly or by chance, he and anyone who hears him are freed from all sins.
Therefore how can anyone seeking disentanglement from the material clutches avoid chanting the name of Lord Śeṣa? Of whom else should one take shelter?
SB 5.25.12
Because the Lord is unlimited, no one can estimate His power. This entire universe, filled with its many great mountains, rivers, oceans, trees and living entities, is resting just like an atom on one of His many thousands of hoods. Is there anyone, even with thousands of tongues, who can describe His glories?
SB 5.25.13
There is no end to the great and glorious qualities of that powerful Lord Anantadeva. Indeed, His prowess is unlimited.
Though self-sufficient, He Himself is the support of everything. He resides beneath the lower planetary systems and easily sustains the entire universe.
SB 5.25.14
My dear King, as I heard of it from my spiritual master, I have fully described to you the creation of this material world according to the fruitive activities and desires of the conditioned souls.
Those conditioned souls, who are full of material desires, achieve various situations in different planetary systems, and in this way they live within this material creation.
Purport:
In this regard, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings,
anādi karama-phale, paḍi’ bhavārṇava-jale,
taribāre nā dekhi upāya
“My Lord, I do not know when I commenced my material life, but I can certainly experience that I have fallen in the deep ocean of nescience. Now I can also see that there is no other way to get out of it than to take shelter of Your lotus feet.”
Similarly, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu offers the following prayer:
ayi nanda-tanuja kiṅkaraṁ
patitaṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau
kṛpayā tava pāda-paṅkaja-
sthita-dhūlī-sadṛśaṁ vicintaya
“My dear Lord, son of Nanda Mahārāja, I am Your eternal servant. Somehow or other, I have fallen into this ocean of nescience. Kindly, therefore, save me from this horrible condition of materialistic life.”
SB 5.25.15
My dear King, I have thus described how people generally act according to their different desires and, as a result, get different types of bodies in higher or lower planets.
You inquired of these things from me, and I have explained to you whatever I have heard from authorities. What shall I speak of now?
Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports of the Fifth Canto, Twenty-fifth Chapter, of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, entitled “The Glories of Lord Ananta.”
Only rascals claim the jiva-souls originate from the impersonal brahmajyoti, when in fact the jiva-soul's eternal home is Goloka-Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha planets.
How can there be love with just one?
Loving personal expressions and unique contribution, can only work when there are "two-sided" voluntary exchanges in a relationship.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love cannot be experienced with only one, or executed by only one, there MUST be two." (SB lecture Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
For the jiva-souls themselves there is no origin as Bhagavad Gita explains.
As said above, the jiva-souls eternally lived in their eternal home on the Vaikuntha planets or in Goloka-Vrindavana.
The material world, the impersonal brahmajyoti and entering the Body of Maha-Visnu are already "fallen condition" the jiva-souls fall too.
Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness." (Letter to Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
These nonsense so called devotees believe the following foolishness-
"The brahmajyoti, the non differentiated marginal plane, is the source of infinite jiva-souls, atomic spiritual particles of nondifferentiated character. The rays of the Lord's transcendental body are known as the brahmajyoti, and a pencil of a ray of the brahmajyoti is the jiva."
The real truth is as follows-
Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG, Aug 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense, EVERYONE comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna, he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Hare Krsna "Happening record album" New York City, Dec 1966)
The jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa have ALWAYS existed, they were never created, there is no origin or beginning point to their existence because they have ALWAYS existed as Bhagavad Gita As It Is confirms!
Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "_The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form, and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture on BG 2.14 - Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
Devotee - "What is the form of the spiritual body. If the spirit soul is non-material, what is the form?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this material body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. You have got legs; therefore your pant has got legs. Therefore it is to be assumed that the spirit soul always has got form, and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. The spirit soul is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say and foolishly believe it has no form." (Lecture BG, 2.14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form, God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."
Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"
Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes, they are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."
Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, May 20, 1975)
Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some "so called place" in the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky, including tatastha-sakti that foolish sangas and their nonsense guru's foolishly claim.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity”
This means, just like Krsna, they are beginning less and endless, and were NEVER created-
Bhagavad Gita - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 12 also confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created because they have no origin and have existed for infinity like Krsna has, as Krsna explains-
Bhagavad Gita - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG 2.12)
The meaning of "marginal" energy explained as follows. The individual jiva-souls are collectively known as Krsna's “marginal energy.”
This marginal energy or potency is NOT some place in the Spiritual Sky where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm, who ARE the jiva-souls, have NO origin.
The individual jiva-souls are everywhere in both the spiritual and material worlds and always have existed without having any origin nor will they ever cease to be.
The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence of either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.
Marginal means in-between.
In actual fact, the jiva-souls are in-between the spiritual energy (realm) and the material energy (realm), this is why they are called marginal (in-between).
So, clearly the marginal potency is NOT a place where jiva-souls come from, the marginal potency ARE the individual jiva-souls who were never created and have no origin, nor will they ever cease to be as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains.
Many have misunderstood these facts about what "marginal" really means. It is NOT some place in outer space jiva-souls are generated from.
Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some "so called place" in the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky, including tatastha-sakti the impersonal brahmajyoti and the Body of Maha-Visnu that foolish sangas (religious cults) and their nonsense guru's foolishly claim.
Being "marginal" means in-between and includes having free will, or having the choice to be influenced by the spiritual energy (the jiva-souls nature position and full potential) or influenced by the material energy (unnatural conditioned state)
As said above, the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.
There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals.” (Lecture on BG 9.4 - Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity”
This means, just like Krsna, they are beginning less and endless, and were NEVER created-
Bhagavad Gita - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 12 also confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created.
This is because they have no origin and have existed for infinity like Krsna has, as Krsna explains-
Bhagavad Gita - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG 2.12)
Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)
There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls), who have existed for as long as Krsna has existed which is eternity.
Therefore, jiva-souls do NOT originate from the so called marginal plane if one thinks it is some place because the jiva-souls have no origin.
The "jiva-souls," who naturally belong in the spiritual energy (Goloka-Vrindavana) as individual spiritual PERSONS with Krsna, are called "marginal living entities" because they are influenced by either the spiritual energy or the material energy explained as follows by Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom.” (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul). Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG, As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)
Of course in the material creation there is almost no free will while trapped in the species of material life, there is only the instinct of-
eating,
sleeping,
mating,
defending.
The human species are also directed by karmic reactions (the reactions to their pious and impious actions) because in the human material bodily form the living entities are responsible for their actions good or bad.
Real freedom or free will only fully exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Understanding free will and one's eternal individual right to make their own choices and contributions in the spiritual world, is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls)
As said above, being "marginal" means having the choice to be influenced by either the spiritual energy (the jiva-souls nature position and full potential in the spiritual world) or by the material energy (unnatural conditioned state), the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.
There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The jiva-souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)
Only the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) can express themselves in seperate way from Krsna which means they have free will.
This is because all Visnu-tattva personalities ARE Krsna just playing unlimited roles in other ways in His own pastimes.
Mother Yasoda is not a jiva-soul, she is a direct expansion of Krsna (Visnu-tattva)
In other words, just like Krsna is also Balarāma, and Radharani is also Krsna but in a different mood, Mother Yasoda is also an expansion of Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada - "Nanda and mother Yasoda are the eternal father & mother of Krsna. This means that whenever Krsna descends, Nanda and Yasoda, as well as Vasudeva and Devaki, also descend as the Lord's father and mother. Their personalities are expansions of Krsna's personal body." (SB, Canto 10.8.48)
Srila Prabhupada - "Even in Vaikuntha you can choose not to serve Krsna if you want."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna protect us from that desire?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He is protecting. Krsna says, "You rascal, don’t desire like that, surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?''
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, if you catch one girl or boy and demand, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ Is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you! Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. "So God does not interfere with your independence." (Conversation Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is the choice to misuse free will, then there is no question of free will!" (Room discussion with Hayagriva dasa)
Srila Prabhupada - "To explain more clearly, all expansions of the Lord begin with Sri Krsna. For His pastimes in one of the highest levels of the spiritual realm, called Dvaraka, Sri Krsna expands Himself into Balarama, who then expands Himself into Pradyumna and Aniruddha.
These four expand into a second quadruple which is present in the unlimited Vaikuntha planets of the spiritual sky. The second quadruple is known as
Vasudeva,
Sankarshana,
Pradyumna,
Aniruddha.
They are changeless, transcendental expansions of the Supreme Lord, Krsna.
In the second quadruple, Vasudeva is an expansion of Krsna, and Sankarshana is a representative of Balarama.
In the Vaikuntha spiritual sky there is the pure, spiritual creative energy called Suddha-satva that sustains all of the spiritual planets with the full opulences of knowledge, wealth, power, beauty, etc., all of which pervade the entire spiritual kingdom and are fully enjoyed by the residents there.
This energy is but a display of the creative potencies of Balarama, Maha Sankarshana. It is also this Sankarshana who is the original cause of the Causal Ocean (which takes shape as a cloud in a corner of the spiritual sky) where Karanodakashayi Visnu (Maha-Visnu) sleeps, while breathing out the seeds of the innumerable universes.
This is the start of the material creation. It is the Karana Ocean, also called the Causal Ocean, in which the material universes are manifest.
When the cosmic creation is annihilated, all of the materially conditioned, although indestructible, living entities merge back into the body of Maha-Visnu where they rest until the time of the next creation.
So Balarama as Sankarshana is the origin of Maha-Visnu, from whom originates all of the potencies of the material manifestation." (CC, Adi-lila, 5.41 and purport)
Fortunately, over 90% of jiva-souls choose to stay in the spiritual world's of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, even though they can choose to leave if they want.
However, sadly, almost 10% do choose to leave and enter the material creation via the dreams of Maha-Visnu.
The jiva-souls have the free will to make their own choices which includes even rejecting Krsna. For free will to truly exist, this choice also must be an option.
In the spiritual worlds the jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna is always voluntary.
Their individual contributions are eternally expressed in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana in a "two-way" reciprocal exchange with Krsna.
In the spiritual worlds the jiva-souls are never forced to surrender to Krsna or do anything they choose not to do.
For loving service and exchanges to truly exist, the individual jiva-souls must be able to act on their free will and make their own choices, decisions and offerings, even if it also means rejecting Krsna if they choose, otherwise there can be no question of voluntary loving exchanges.
Each jiva-soul can voluntarily express themselves as an independent individual to experience unique loving exchanges and personal service.
Srila Prabhupada – “So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
Dr. John Mize – "Did all the jiva-souls that were in the spiritual sky (the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavan) fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any jiva-souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"
Srila Prabhupada – "No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down."
Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%."
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are… Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down."
Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a jiva-soul is going to be foolish and fall?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient."
Dr. John Mize – "Are more jiva-souls falling all the time?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence. Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example, just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing." Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency."
Dr. John Mize – "The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka) is?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes."
Dr. John Mize – "From where does that tendency come?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says,yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like." (BG, As It Is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Originally, the jiva-souls chose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana because of independent desires for self centred enjoyment without Krsna.
They are not material desires that caused us to leave because there is no Maya in the spiritual world however, there is ALWAYS "free will."
The jiva-souls can always choose to enjoy separate from Krsna in Vaikuntha, but instantly those independent rebellious desires cause us to leave Vaikuntha and enter the dreams of Maha-Visnu in the material world.
One again, self centered desires are NOT material desires because nothing material (maya) exists in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.
It is those "separate" desires to enjoy independent of Krsna that send us out of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, and into the material world.
We then "hire" a suitable material bodily vessel off Maha-Visnu that allows us to enter the material creation and begin experiencing an active existence.
The human form of life is extremely very rare, most visitors from Vaikuntha to the material world end up in the lower species of life (body)
According to Vedic scripture there are 8 million 400 thousand species of life and only 400 thousand are human and demigod species.
So the human form is rare let's not misuse it.**^^
