When a devotee regains his/hers original Krsna Consciousness and re-establishes ‘the awareness’ of their nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka, which is never lost while dreaming as nitya-baddha in the perishable creation, does not mean that one is only restricted by one particular svarupa (body) for eternity in Krishna's pastimes..
Ones eternal body is not limited to any particular nitya-siddha body they have there.
Also there are examples of devotees participating in the pastimes of the Lord in more than one svarupa at the same time, therefore our eternal rasa can change in Goloka; even though our nitya siddha or rasa body is perpetually situated in Goloka as a two armed form in it’s originality as Srila Prabhupada confirms -
Yasomatinandana – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs". Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975
So unlike the material bodies in the mahat-tattva that are temporary decaying vessels the nitya-baddha consciousness moves around in, we ARE our body (nitya-siddha) in Goloka though, that body can transform because our eternal svarupa is interchangeable.
For example, ones svarupa can change to a four-armed form in the Vaikuntha Planets or a different form in Lord Caitanya's pastimes in the top most platform in Goloka that He sometimes brings to the material world as pastimes, although very rare.
In simple terms, one has the ability to ‘shape shift’ into any form to please Krsna Caitanya and can also be in many places in various forms at the same time.
Caitanya Caritamrita is full of such examples. Most are Vishnu tattva expansions although there are many jiva tattva’s like Naradha Muni as well. No jiva tattva in Lord Caitanya Lila is restricted only to their two-armed perpetual svarupa-nitya-siddha body
Srivasa Thakura is known as Narada Muni, he also has his svarupa manifestation in Goloka. Therefore, by the elegance of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Narada Muni is also simultaneously situated in the top most regions of Goloka where Caitanya Mahaprabhu's endless pastimes are going on.
Further more, Srila Prabhupada has explained that Narada Muni enters the material world often disguised in different bodily vessels to preach Krishna Consciousness.
Who can understand the multidimensional full potential abilities of the liberated nitya-siddha souls?
Sunday, November 28, 2010
Perhaps John Lennon with his I am you, you are me LSD experience and Richard Feynman were thinking the same impersonal theory
I would like to understand how the one electron theory being the entire universe works, if anyone in quantum science can help me, how does one electron become two in different time zones of past, present and future and expands over trillions of years to become the expanding universe? This idea won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1965 by Richard P. Feynman
Richard Feynman and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Prize in 1965 for explaining all particles can travel backward in time (This interpretation is still the explanation currently accepted today.)
Feynman then speculated that perhaps the entire universe consisted of just one electron, zigzagging back and forth in time. Imagine that out of the chaos of the original big bang only a single electron was created. Trillions of years later, this single electron would eventually encounter the cataclysm of annihilation, where it would make a U-turn and go backward in time, releasing a gamma ray in the process.
Then it would go back to the original big bang, and then perform another U-turn. The electron would then make repeated zigzag journeys back and forth, from the big bang to annihilation.
Our universe in the twenty-first century is just a time slice of this electron's journey, in which we see trillions of electrons and anti-electrons, that is, the visible universe.
As strange as this theory may appear, it explains a curious fact from the quantum theory: why all electrons are the same. Maybe the reason is that the entire universe consists of the same electron, just bouncing back and forth in time.
Feynman's notion about one single electron, and antimatter particles travelling backwards in time grew into his theory of quantum electrodynamics, which has been experimentally verified to one part in 10 billion, making it one of the most accurate theories of all time.
Could our universe really have only one electron, whizzing back and forth within timelessness to create the trillions of electrons we see at any particular "now" for our universe? Could consciousness be the same, only one consciousness travelling back and forth across time, experiencing the endless complexity of our universe from a unique perspective each time, but ultimately seeing itself complete the same journey over and over again?
Perhaps John Lennon with his I am you, you are me LSD experience and Richard Feynman were thinking about ideas that were more similar than either of them could ever have realized.
Einstein speculated, that the electron is indeed the leading player in the universe and is intimately involved with light, matter, the laws of Nature, and our lives.
The path to the answer, is simple: Reject the discrete material electron and replace it with a wave-structured electron as proposed by Schroedinger and Clifford - using a scalar-wave equation. The math and the proofs are straight-forward because scalar waves are the only possible choice.
Only two principles underlie all results. Despite this simplicity the WSM explains the origin of the natural laws, new applications in micro-physics and chips, understanding light energy exchange and lasers, plus the answers to most current paradoxes of physics. It is breathtaking to find so many results together – simply by answering Einstein’s question "What is the Electron". (Milo Wolff, Geoff Haselhurst)
The Vedas tell us there are two different universes, one called the Vaikunthas (anti-matter) where everything is alive and is never created and exists perpetually in what is known as the eternal presence of time or service to Krsna that has no past or future, just the eternal ‘NOW’ that is without decay, beginning or end and is the original home of all living entities.
The other is the material universe (matter) that we are presently trapped in by these material bodies or vessels that is created and experiences annulation and exists in the realm of past, present and future.
The material universes have two basic realities, the subtle ethereal material universe and the gross biological. The gross matter we see only takes up .1% of the material creation, which is all the planets, Moons, Suns, within all the Solar Systems and galaxies we perceive with our biological eyes and its extensions like the Hubble Telescope.
The other 99.9% of the material universe is made up of subtle matter that cannot be perceived with gross material means like Telescopes or even Electron microscopes, it is only realized by pious activities and is where the heavenly material subtle worlds exist that are often mistaken as Vaikuntha (anti-material endless eternally youthful universes) by Buddhists, Christians and Muslims.
It is important to understand that all living entities originally come from Goloka. What makes things confusing to several is that some souls, who are actually trapped in their baddha-jiva lower self state and completely forgetful of their nitya-siddha full potential body in Goloka, can stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva as their baddha-jiva inferior self for what seems an almost eternity. This means many souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation.
The baddha-jiva sub-consciousness projection that originates as a dream condition or echo off the marginal living entities nitya-siddha body in Goloka, is formless state of consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules, such baddha-jiva souls acquire their external material subtle and gross biological forms or bodily containers from Maha-Vishnu. With this explanation, the following comment by Srila Prabhupada that is incorrectly understood by many is now made very clear.
Srila Prabhupada – “In His form as Karaṇodakasayi Viṣṇu the Lord impregnates material nature by His glance. The transcendental molecules of that glance are particles of spirit, or spiritual atoms, which appear in different species of life according to the seeds of their individual karma from the previous cosmic manifestation. And the Lord Himself, by His partial representation, creates a body of innumerable universes and again enters each of those universes as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. His coming in contact with māyā is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā by a comparison between air and the sky. The sky enters everything material, yet it is far away from us”. Caitanya Caritamrta Ādi 5.69
Richard Feynman and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Prize in 1965 for explaining all particles can travel backward in time (This interpretation is still the explanation currently accepted today.)
Feynman then speculated that perhaps the entire universe consisted of just one electron, zigzagging back and forth in time. Imagine that out of the chaos of the original big bang only a single electron was created. Trillions of years later, this single electron would eventually encounter the cataclysm of annihilation, where it would make a U-turn and go backward in time, releasing a gamma ray in the process.
Then it would go back to the original big bang, and then perform another U-turn. The electron would then make repeated zigzag journeys back and forth, from the big bang to annihilation.
Our universe in the twenty-first century is just a time slice of this electron's journey, in which we see trillions of electrons and anti-electrons, that is, the visible universe.
As strange as this theory may appear, it explains a curious fact from the quantum theory: why all electrons are the same. Maybe the reason is that the entire universe consists of the same electron, just bouncing back and forth in time.
Feynman's notion about one single electron, and antimatter particles travelling backwards in time grew into his theory of quantum electrodynamics, which has been experimentally verified to one part in 10 billion, making it one of the most accurate theories of all time.
Could our universe really have only one electron, whizzing back and forth within timelessness to create the trillions of electrons we see at any particular "now" for our universe? Could consciousness be the same, only one consciousness travelling back and forth across time, experiencing the endless complexity of our universe from a unique perspective each time, but ultimately seeing itself complete the same journey over and over again?
Perhaps John Lennon with his I am you, you are me LSD experience and Richard Feynman were thinking about ideas that were more similar than either of them could ever have realized.
Einstein speculated, that the electron is indeed the leading player in the universe and is intimately involved with light, matter, the laws of Nature, and our lives.
The path to the answer, is simple: Reject the discrete material electron and replace it with a wave-structured electron as proposed by Schroedinger and Clifford - using a scalar-wave equation. The math and the proofs are straight-forward because scalar waves are the only possible choice.
Only two principles underlie all results. Despite this simplicity the WSM explains the origin of the natural laws, new applications in micro-physics and chips, understanding light energy exchange and lasers, plus the answers to most current paradoxes of physics. It is breathtaking to find so many results together – simply by answering Einstein’s question "What is the Electron". (Milo Wolff, Geoff Haselhurst)
The Vedas tell us there are two different universes, one called the Vaikunthas (anti-matter) where everything is alive and is never created and exists perpetually in what is known as the eternal presence of time or service to Krsna that has no past or future, just the eternal ‘NOW’ that is without decay, beginning or end and is the original home of all living entities.
The other is the material universe (matter) that we are presently trapped in by these material bodies or vessels that is created and experiences annulation and exists in the realm of past, present and future.
The material universes have two basic realities, the subtle ethereal material universe and the gross biological. The gross matter we see only takes up .1% of the material creation, which is all the planets, Moons, Suns, within all the Solar Systems and galaxies we perceive with our biological eyes and its extensions like the Hubble Telescope.
The other 99.9% of the material universe is made up of subtle matter that cannot be perceived with gross material means like Telescopes or even Electron microscopes, it is only realized by pious activities and is where the heavenly material subtle worlds exist that are often mistaken as Vaikuntha (anti-material endless eternally youthful universes) by Buddhists, Christians and Muslims.
It is important to understand that all living entities originally come from Goloka. What makes things confusing to several is that some souls, who are actually trapped in their baddha-jiva lower self state and completely forgetful of their nitya-siddha full potential body in Goloka, can stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva as their baddha-jiva inferior self for what seems an almost eternity. This means many souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation.
The baddha-jiva sub-consciousness projection that originates as a dream condition or echo off the marginal living entities nitya-siddha body in Goloka, is formless state of consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules, such baddha-jiva souls acquire their external material subtle and gross biological forms or bodily containers from Maha-Vishnu. With this explanation, the following comment by Srila Prabhupada that is incorrectly understood by many is now made very clear.
Srila Prabhupada – “In His form as Karaṇodakasayi Viṣṇu the Lord impregnates material nature by His glance. The transcendental molecules of that glance are particles of spirit, or spiritual atoms, which appear in different species of life according to the seeds of their individual karma from the previous cosmic manifestation. And the Lord Himself, by His partial representation, creates a body of innumerable universes and again enters each of those universes as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. His coming in contact with māyā is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā by a comparison between air and the sky. The sky enters everything material, yet it is far away from us”. Caitanya Caritamrta Ādi 5.69
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes, the material world and all our relationships in it are a dream”.
The following conversation is between His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and a university student that took place in Los Angeles, in January of 1974.
Student. – “In your books you say this world is like a dream”.
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes. It is a dream”.
Student – “How is it a dream?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “For example, last night you had some dream, but now it has no value. It is gone. And again, tonight when you sleep, you’ll forget all these things and dream. You won’t remember, when you are dreaming tonight, “I’ve got my house; I’ve got my wife.” You’ll forget it all. So all of this is a dream”.
Student. – “Is it true, or is it not true?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “How could it be true? At night you forgot it. Do you remember when you sleep that you’ve got your wife and you’re sleeping on a bed? When you have gone some three thousand miles away and seen something totally different in your dream, do you remember that you’ve got a place to reside in?”
Student – “No”.
Srila Prabhupada – “So this is a dream. Tonight. What you are seeing now will become only a dream, just as what you know it was only a dream. So both are dreams. You are simply a visitor, that’s all. You are seeing this dream and that dream. You, the spirit soul, are factual. But your material body and the material surroundings you are seeing –this is dream”.
Student. – “But I have the impression that this experience is true and my dream is not true. What is the difference?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “No. This experience is all untrue! How could it be true? If it were true, how could you forget it at night? How could you forget it, if it were true? At night do you remember all this?”
Student – “No. I don’t remember.”
Srila Prabhupada – “Then-how could it be true? Just as you don’t remember the dream you saw last night and so you call it a “dream,” similarly this experience-because you forget it at night-this is also a dream….”
Student – “I have the impress”
Srila Prabhupada. – “This is a day dream; that is a night dream. That’s all. When you dream at night, then you perceive that as being real. Yes. You think that is real. It is a dream, but you are crying, “There is a tiger! Tiger! Tiger!” Where is the tiger? But you are seeing it as a fact-a tiger. “I’m being killed by a tiger.” But where is the tiger? …Or you dream you are embracing some beautiful girl. Where is that beautiful girl? But actually it is happening”.
Student – “It is happening”?
Srila Prabhupada – “In one sense it is happening, because there is discharge of semen. Nocturnal emission. But where is that girl? Is it not a dream? But similarly, this so-call real-life experience is also a dream".
You are getting the impression of factuality, but it is a dream. Therefore it is called maya-sukhaya, illusory happiness. Your nighttime happiness and your day time are the same thing. At night you are dreaming you are embracing a nice beautiful girl, and there is no such thing.
Similalrly, in the daytime also, whatever “advancement” you are making-this also like that. Maya-sukhaya: You are dreaming, “This process will make happy” or “That process is only a dream. You are taking this daydream as reality because the duration is long.
At night when you dream, the duration is just half an hour. But this daydream lasts for twelve-hour dream, and that is half-hour dream-but actually both of them are dreams. Because one is twelve-hour dream, you are accepting it as real. This is call illusion”.
Student – “Illusion”.
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes…. You are making a distinction between and animal and yourself, but you are forgetting that just as the animal will die, you will also die. So where is your advancement? Will you remain forever? You will also die. So where is your advancement over an animal?
That is stated in the Vedic literatures. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam-cal samanam etat pasubhir naranam this business –eating, sleeping, sex life, and defending-this is also the animal’s business, and you are doing the same.
So how are you distinct from an animal? You will die; the animal will die.
But if you say, “I will die after one hundred years, and this ant will die after one hour,” that does mean that you are in reality. It is a question of time, Or take this huge universe-it will all be destroyed.
As your body will be destroyed, this universe will also be destroyed. Annihilation. Dissolution. Nature’s way-the whole thing will be dissolved.
Therefore, it is a dream. It is a long duration of dream, that’s all. Nothing else. But the advantage of having this human body is that in this dream, you can realize the reality-God.
That is the advantage. So if you don’t take advantage of this dream, then you are missing everything”.
Student. – “So I’m half-asleep?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes, that is the situation. Therefore, the Vedic literatures say, uttistha: “Get up! Get up! Get up!” Jagrata: Become awakened!” Prapya varan nibodhata: “Now you have got the opportunity: utilize it.” Tamasi ma jyotir gama:
“Don’t stay in darkness; come to the light.” These are Vedic injunctions. And we are teaching the same thing, “Reality is here-Krsna. Don’t remain in this dark place. Come to the higher consciousness”. Los Angeles, in January of 1974.
Srila Prabhupada - “As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains.
Now he is in his original position. Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there. Actually he has not fallen”. http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul's dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma-Samhita describes –
“This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”..29.83
.http://vedabase.net/sb/4/29/83/en
Srila Prabhupada - “There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha” New York lecture on Caitanya-Caritamrta, July 13, 1976
Srila Prabhupada – “Eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha)? We cannot be eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha), because we are part and parcel of Krishna. Our natural position is ever liberated, eternally liberated (nitya-siddha). But because we wanted to imitate Krishna, we wanted to become Krishna, as the Mayavadis want to do, therefore in the spiritual world, Krishna is the only enjoyer. (Bhagavad Gita as it is lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Student. – “In your books you say this world is like a dream”.
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes. It is a dream”.
Student – “How is it a dream?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “For example, last night you had some dream, but now it has no value. It is gone. And again, tonight when you sleep, you’ll forget all these things and dream. You won’t remember, when you are dreaming tonight, “I’ve got my house; I’ve got my wife.” You’ll forget it all. So all of this is a dream”.
Student. – “Is it true, or is it not true?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “How could it be true? At night you forgot it. Do you remember when you sleep that you’ve got your wife and you’re sleeping on a bed? When you have gone some three thousand miles away and seen something totally different in your dream, do you remember that you’ve got a place to reside in?”
Student – “No”.
Srila Prabhupada – “So this is a dream. Tonight. What you are seeing now will become only a dream, just as what you know it was only a dream. So both are dreams. You are simply a visitor, that’s all. You are seeing this dream and that dream. You, the spirit soul, are factual. But your material body and the material surroundings you are seeing –this is dream”.
Student. – “But I have the impression that this experience is true and my dream is not true. What is the difference?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “No. This experience is all untrue! How could it be true? If it were true, how could you forget it at night? How could you forget it, if it were true? At night do you remember all this?”
Student – “No. I don’t remember.”
Srila Prabhupada – “Then-how could it be true? Just as you don’t remember the dream you saw last night and so you call it a “dream,” similarly this experience-because you forget it at night-this is also a dream….”
Student – “I have the impress”
Srila Prabhupada. – “This is a day dream; that is a night dream. That’s all. When you dream at night, then you perceive that as being real. Yes. You think that is real. It is a dream, but you are crying, “There is a tiger! Tiger! Tiger!” Where is the tiger? But you are seeing it as a fact-a tiger. “I’m being killed by a tiger.” But where is the tiger? …Or you dream you are embracing some beautiful girl. Where is that beautiful girl? But actually it is happening”.
Student – “It is happening”?
Srila Prabhupada – “In one sense it is happening, because there is discharge of semen. Nocturnal emission. But where is that girl? Is it not a dream? But similarly, this so-call real-life experience is also a dream".
You are getting the impression of factuality, but it is a dream. Therefore it is called maya-sukhaya, illusory happiness. Your nighttime happiness and your day time are the same thing. At night you are dreaming you are embracing a nice beautiful girl, and there is no such thing.
Similalrly, in the daytime also, whatever “advancement” you are making-this also like that. Maya-sukhaya: You are dreaming, “This process will make happy” or “That process is only a dream. You are taking this daydream as reality because the duration is long.
At night when you dream, the duration is just half an hour. But this daydream lasts for twelve-hour dream, and that is half-hour dream-but actually both of them are dreams. Because one is twelve-hour dream, you are accepting it as real. This is call illusion”.
Student – “Illusion”.
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes…. You are making a distinction between and animal and yourself, but you are forgetting that just as the animal will die, you will also die. So where is your advancement? Will you remain forever? You will also die. So where is your advancement over an animal?
That is stated in the Vedic literatures. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam-cal samanam etat pasubhir naranam this business –eating, sleeping, sex life, and defending-this is also the animal’s business, and you are doing the same.
So how are you distinct from an animal? You will die; the animal will die.
But if you say, “I will die after one hundred years, and this ant will die after one hour,” that does mean that you are in reality. It is a question of time, Or take this huge universe-it will all be destroyed.
As your body will be destroyed, this universe will also be destroyed. Annihilation. Dissolution. Nature’s way-the whole thing will be dissolved.
Therefore, it is a dream. It is a long duration of dream, that’s all. Nothing else. But the advantage of having this human body is that in this dream, you can realize the reality-God.
That is the advantage. So if you don’t take advantage of this dream, then you are missing everything”.
Student. – “So I’m half-asleep?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes, that is the situation. Therefore, the Vedic literatures say, uttistha: “Get up! Get up! Get up!” Jagrata: Become awakened!” Prapya varan nibodhata: “Now you have got the opportunity: utilize it.” Tamasi ma jyotir gama:
“Don’t stay in darkness; come to the light.” These are Vedic injunctions. And we are teaching the same thing, “Reality is here-Krsna. Don’t remain in this dark place. Come to the higher consciousness”. Los Angeles, in January of 1974.
Srila Prabhupada - “As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains.
Now he is in his original position. Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there. Actually he has not fallen”. http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul's dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma-Samhita describes –
“This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”..29.83
.http://vedabase.net/sb/4/29/83/en
Srila Prabhupada - “There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha” New York lecture on Caitanya-Caritamrta, July 13, 1976
Srila Prabhupada – “Eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha)? We cannot be eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha), because we are part and parcel of Krishna. Our natural position is ever liberated, eternally liberated (nitya-siddha). But because we wanted to imitate Krishna, we wanted to become Krishna, as the Mayavadis want to do, therefore in the spiritual world, Krishna is the only enjoyer. (Bhagavad Gita as it is lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Darkness cannot be left over in the presents of light because light dissipates all darkness
In other words while there is light (nitya-siddha), darkness (nitya-baddha) does not exist similarly, when one is situated as their full potential Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa effulgent body, the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness darkness does not exist. Therefore ones svarupa body is always Krishna Conscious and is always absorbed in serving Krishna and not even aware that their inferior nitya-baddha consciousness even exists because factually it does not exist if one always uses their free-will and chooses to remain fully Krishna conscious.
When ones nitya-baddha sub-consciousness gradually dissipates on its journey back to one regaining there awareness of their nitya-siddha bodily origins, the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness begins to fad as ones layers of self interested dreams, selfish desires and thoughts in the mahat-tattva dissolve due to Krishna Consciousness. Remember the nitya-baddha-jiva is a bodiless sub-consciousness in the mahat-tattva and only able to experience desires through the material bodies provided by Maha-Vishnu.
When the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness has been fully dissipated by Krishna Consciousness, that instance coincides with ones entrance (awareness) into Goloka or Vaikuntha and the simultaneous event where one becomes fully conscious of their genuine nitya-siddha-svarupa rasa bodily personality and identity to the point they are not concerned or even possibly do not remember that they had been in a dreaming condition in the first place.
This is due to the perpetual concept of the ‘eternal presence of Krishna consciousness’ that is eternally devoid of past and future in Goloka-Vrndavana and Vaikuntha due to the marginal living entity being 110% absorbed in Krishna katha, beyond material time and space that is also instinctive to the existence of the phenomenon of past, present and future that can only exist in the mahat-tattva.
When ones nitya-baddha sub-consciousness gradually dissipates on its journey back to one regaining there awareness of their nitya-siddha bodily origins, the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness begins to fad as ones layers of self interested dreams, selfish desires and thoughts in the mahat-tattva dissolve due to Krishna Consciousness. Remember the nitya-baddha-jiva is a bodiless sub-consciousness in the mahat-tattva and only able to experience desires through the material bodies provided by Maha-Vishnu.
When the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness has been fully dissipated by Krishna Consciousness, that instance coincides with ones entrance (awareness) into Goloka or Vaikuntha and the simultaneous event where one becomes fully conscious of their genuine nitya-siddha-svarupa rasa bodily personality and identity to the point they are not concerned or even possibly do not remember that they had been in a dreaming condition in the first place.
This is due to the perpetual concept of the ‘eternal presence of Krishna consciousness’ that is eternally devoid of past and future in Goloka-Vrndavana and Vaikuntha due to the marginal living entity being 110% absorbed in Krishna katha, beyond material time and space that is also instinctive to the existence of the phenomenon of past, present and future that can only exist in the mahat-tattva.
Is the Marginal Living Entity Exclusively from only Goloka or Vaikuntha?
Is the Marginal Living Entity Exclusively from only Goloka or Vaikuntha?
BY: GAURAGOPALA DASA
Oct 04, USA (SUN) — Is the marginal living entity exclusively from only Goloka or Vaikuntha? And if so, how does one fall down from Goloka to the ‘dreaming’ (material) creation of Maha-Vishnu?
Like the roots of a banyan tree, the embodied nitya-baddha soul’s karma weaves and interweaves throughout the temporary material universe or mahat-tattva confusing and inducing the embodied baddha-jiva to the conviction they are their temporary ethereal and biological bodily vessels when factually the entire material creation is nothing other than the imaginations and dreams of the conditioned soul (baddha-jiva) facilitated by the dreaming Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
This quote is an important point when understanding what a ‘dream’ is on the highest platform -
Srila Prabhupada – “The Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
This quote makes it very clear that we cannot compare our mundane biological dreams with the transcendental dreams of Maha-Vishnu or even the marginal living entities <SPAN>secondary inferior unembodied nitya-baddha sub-conscious dream state.
Only when the nitya-baddha dreaming state becomes further contained (They are first contained in an ethereal body within the mahat-tattva) in a biological vessel within the mahat-tattva does its dreams become true illusion and almost meaningless.
However, on the higher material ethereal heavenly worlds where the marginal living entity in their secondary nitya-baddha sub-conscious state is contained in an ethereal body, all thoughts, dreams and imaginations there are on the level of actual reality of the mahat-tattva yet temporary.
Therefore on the heavenly planets of the mahat-tattva and even its Satya-yuga’s on the middle planetary systems like our earth planet, there is also no difference between ‘thoughts’ and ‘actions’.
Only at the end of the Dwarpa-yuga and the entire Kali-yuga does ones thoughts, imaginings and dreams within the biological gross body do not materialize and create karma.
In this way those trapped in the Kali-yuga have dreams and thoughts that ARE dreams or illusion (fantasy) and are not to be confused with the spirit souls dreams or the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. This is an important point because so many are comparing their biological dreams of fantasy with their nitya-baddha dreams of temporary reality.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
Srila Prabhupada – “After being in contact with the material modes of nature, the living entity develops the subtle and gross bodies. When the living entity is fortunate enough to associate with Sri Narada Mahamuni or his servants, he is liberated from this ‘dreamland’ of material creation and the bodily conception of life”. Srimad Bhagavatam 4/29/83/
Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a ‘dream’. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.2.
Srila Prabhupada – “This material world is a product of the mahat-tattva, which is a state of the Lord's dreaming condition in His yoga-nidra mystic slumber in the Causal Ocean, and yet the whole creation appears to be a factual presentation of His creation. This means that the Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations. He can therefore bring everything under His transcendental control, and thus whenever and wherever He does appear, He does so in His fullness”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
We were originally ‘aware’ of ‘always’ being with Krsna, (nitya-siddha) but we chose to forget that fact and become ‘unaware’ of our perpetual nitya-siddha body and service to Krishna because we made the choice to not service Krishna which was the beginning of our fall down.
In that state of forgetfulness we think or dream we have fallen (As nitya-baddha), but actually we are not fallen. We simply have to wake up and remember who we really are, and then we will be in our original position
The dream condition and our dream identity (nitya-baddha conscious state) will then disappear and we will find ourselves in our natural position as nitya-siddha, just like a person who is dreaming wakes up on his own bed. Actually, he is always on his own bed, even in the dream. Similarly, we are always in Goloka even when we ‘dream’ or ‘think’ we are in the material creation.
In this way, Srila Prabhupada gives us the way to understand how we can find ourselves separated from Krsna without really “falling” from Vaikuntha even though it appears we have fallen due to forgetting who we really are. Srila Prabhupada in this way explains in his lectures how the living entities can fall down from their eternal relationship with Krsna without really falling down, this Book how this paradox comes about.
Is the jiva soul always called marginal energy?
Srila Prabhupada - “The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krishna’s marginal energy.” - Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968
Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…(In Vaikuntha) so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, then that is material”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with (This biological body or vessel and the material creation). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - “Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position. Bhagavad-Gita as it is, Introduction.
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". Germany, June 22, 1974
The jiva-soul is always marginal energy wether devotionally active in Goloka-Vrndavana, in Vaikuntha, or active in restricted vessels within the material creation, dormant in the Body of Maha-Vishnu or further inactive in the Vraja River and the Impersonal Brahmajyoti that are ALL occupied by nitya-baddha souls.
It must be clearly understood that ONLY the lower sub-conscious projected baddha-jiva subordinate self comes to these places they had previously have fallen too on possibly many occasions, no jiva-souls originate from the Body of Maha-Vishnu, the material creation, the Vraja River or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna album)
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati - “It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature” Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.
Srila Prabhupada – “Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord”. Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction
Srila Prabhupada – “Therefore the Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions in eternal association with the Lord.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport
Srila Prabhupada – “In his original state, there is no doubt of enjoyment; therefore, that is his real state.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport.
Srila Prabhupada – “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Originally the jiva soul was engaged with Krishna in an original loving selfless relationship as nitya-siddha from which he has fallen however, the fall down was not a physical fall down as their nitya-siddha body but rather was a ‘sub-conscious’ fall down from the ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body which is called the nitya-baddha-jiva
Srila Prabhupada - "We are all originally situated on the platform of Krishna consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of Krishna." - Letter of November 17, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - "He is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet. He is fallen in this material world, and he is again trying to make progress." Srimad Bhagavatam lecture of June 15, 1972
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world . . . There is possibility . . . even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down--what to speak of this material world." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on July 4, 1974
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . we have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
There is always a perpetual personal association with Krishna in the spiritual sky as nitya-siddha previous to being within the body of Maha-Vishnu (That is only temporarily possible as the secondary nitya-baddha ‘dream’ state). Also the idea the jiva soul originates from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Vraja River is also nonsense.
The origin of the jiva from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti is a myth and the origin of the jiva from Maha-Vishnu is another myth.
Srila Prabhupada - "Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration . . . After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls down from Brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna." – Letter to Madhudvisa Swami and Australian devotees 1972
Srila Prabhupada - "We have come from the spiritual world into this material world. We have forgotten our Father. So we have to revive this relationship with our Father . . . God or Krishna." - Lecture on October 7, 1975
Actually we are all pure devotees eternal associates of Krishna but we have forgotten that long, long, long, long, long ago. We have foolishly allowed ourselves to be covered, due to free will and choice, by the cloud of selfish desires, thoughts and dreams that blocks out our memory of who we really are. Such desires place us in dream vessels within the mahat-tattva dream creation of Maha Vishnu.
We just have to comprehend what eternal means. It means that once you are there (or better said; here), in the authentic ‘imperishable’ present, you were always there and will always be there even if you ‘dream’ you are not there. That is the meaning of beginningless, endless or eternal
BY: GAURAGOPALA DASA
Oct 04, USA (SUN) — Is the marginal living entity exclusively from only Goloka or Vaikuntha? And if so, how does one fall down from Goloka to the ‘dreaming’ (material) creation of Maha-Vishnu?
Like the roots of a banyan tree, the embodied nitya-baddha soul’s karma weaves and interweaves throughout the temporary material universe or mahat-tattva confusing and inducing the embodied baddha-jiva to the conviction they are their temporary ethereal and biological bodily vessels when factually the entire material creation is nothing other than the imaginations and dreams of the conditioned soul (baddha-jiva) facilitated by the dreaming Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
This quote is an important point when understanding what a ‘dream’ is on the highest platform -
Srila Prabhupada – “The Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
This quote makes it very clear that we cannot compare our mundane biological dreams with the transcendental dreams of Maha-Vishnu or even the marginal living entities <SPAN>secondary inferior unembodied nitya-baddha sub-conscious dream state.
Only when the nitya-baddha dreaming state becomes further contained (They are first contained in an ethereal body within the mahat-tattva) in a biological vessel within the mahat-tattva does its dreams become true illusion and almost meaningless.
However, on the higher material ethereal heavenly worlds where the marginal living entity in their secondary nitya-baddha sub-conscious state is contained in an ethereal body, all thoughts, dreams and imaginations there are on the level of actual reality of the mahat-tattva yet temporary.
Therefore on the heavenly planets of the mahat-tattva and even its Satya-yuga’s on the middle planetary systems like our earth planet, there is also no difference between ‘thoughts’ and ‘actions’.
Only at the end of the Dwarpa-yuga and the entire Kali-yuga does ones thoughts, imaginings and dreams within the biological gross body do not materialize and create karma.
In this way those trapped in the Kali-yuga have dreams and thoughts that ARE dreams or illusion (fantasy) and are not to be confused with the spirit souls dreams or the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. This is an important point because so many are comparing their biological dreams of fantasy with their nitya-baddha dreams of temporary reality.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
Srila Prabhupada – “After being in contact with the material modes of nature, the living entity develops the subtle and gross bodies. When the living entity is fortunate enough to associate with Sri Narada Mahamuni or his servants, he is liberated from this ‘dreamland’ of material creation and the bodily conception of life”. Srimad Bhagavatam 4/29/83/
Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a ‘dream’. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.2.
Srila Prabhupada – “This material world is a product of the mahat-tattva, which is a state of the Lord's dreaming condition in His yoga-nidra mystic slumber in the Causal Ocean, and yet the whole creation appears to be a factual presentation of His creation. This means that the Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations. He can therefore bring everything under His transcendental control, and thus whenever and wherever He does appear, He does so in His fullness”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
We were originally ‘aware’ of ‘always’ being with Krsna, (nitya-siddha) but we chose to forget that fact and become ‘unaware’ of our perpetual nitya-siddha body and service to Krishna because we made the choice to not service Krishna which was the beginning of our fall down.
In that state of forgetfulness we think or dream we have fallen (As nitya-baddha), but actually we are not fallen. We simply have to wake up and remember who we really are, and then we will be in our original position
The dream condition and our dream identity (nitya-baddha conscious state) will then disappear and we will find ourselves in our natural position as nitya-siddha, just like a person who is dreaming wakes up on his own bed. Actually, he is always on his own bed, even in the dream. Similarly, we are always in Goloka even when we ‘dream’ or ‘think’ we are in the material creation.
In this way, Srila Prabhupada gives us the way to understand how we can find ourselves separated from Krsna without really “falling” from Vaikuntha even though it appears we have fallen due to forgetting who we really are. Srila Prabhupada in this way explains in his lectures how the living entities can fall down from their eternal relationship with Krsna without really falling down, this Book how this paradox comes about.
Is the jiva soul always called marginal energy?
Srila Prabhupada - “The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krishna’s marginal energy.” - Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968
Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…(In Vaikuntha) so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, then that is material”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with (This biological body or vessel and the material creation). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - “Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position. Bhagavad-Gita as it is, Introduction.
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". Germany, June 22, 1974
The jiva-soul is always marginal energy wether devotionally active in Goloka-Vrndavana, in Vaikuntha, or active in restricted vessels within the material creation, dormant in the Body of Maha-Vishnu or further inactive in the Vraja River and the Impersonal Brahmajyoti that are ALL occupied by nitya-baddha souls.
It must be clearly understood that ONLY the lower sub-conscious projected baddha-jiva subordinate self comes to these places they had previously have fallen too on possibly many occasions, no jiva-souls originate from the Body of Maha-Vishnu, the material creation, the Vraja River or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna album)
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati - “It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature” Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.
Srila Prabhupada – “Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord”. Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction
Srila Prabhupada – “Therefore the Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions in eternal association with the Lord.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport
Srila Prabhupada – “In his original state, there is no doubt of enjoyment; therefore, that is his real state.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport.
Srila Prabhupada – “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Originally the jiva soul was engaged with Krishna in an original loving selfless relationship as nitya-siddha from which he has fallen however, the fall down was not a physical fall down as their nitya-siddha body but rather was a ‘sub-conscious’ fall down from the ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body which is called the nitya-baddha-jiva
Srila Prabhupada - "We are all originally situated on the platform of Krishna consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of Krishna." - Letter of November 17, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - "He is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet. He is fallen in this material world, and he is again trying to make progress." Srimad Bhagavatam lecture of June 15, 1972
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world . . . There is possibility . . . even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down--what to speak of this material world." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on July 4, 1974
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . we have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
There is always a perpetual personal association with Krishna in the spiritual sky as nitya-siddha previous to being within the body of Maha-Vishnu (That is only temporarily possible as the secondary nitya-baddha ‘dream’ state). Also the idea the jiva soul originates from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Vraja River is also nonsense.
The origin of the jiva from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti is a myth and the origin of the jiva from Maha-Vishnu is another myth.
Srila Prabhupada - "Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration . . . After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls down from Brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna." – Letter to Madhudvisa Swami and Australian devotees 1972
Srila Prabhupada - "We have come from the spiritual world into this material world. We have forgotten our Father. So we have to revive this relationship with our Father . . . God or Krishna." - Lecture on October 7, 1975
Actually we are all pure devotees eternal associates of Krishna but we have forgotten that long, long, long, long, long ago. We have foolishly allowed ourselves to be covered, due to free will and choice, by the cloud of selfish desires, thoughts and dreams that blocks out our memory of who we really are. Such desires place us in dream vessels within the mahat-tattva dream creation of Maha Vishnu.
We just have to comprehend what eternal means. It means that once you are there (or better said; here), in the authentic ‘imperishable’ present, you were always there and will always be there even if you ‘dream’ you are not there. That is the meaning of beginningless, endless or eternal
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