Is the marginal living entity exclusively from only Goloka or Vaikuntha? And if so, how does one fall down from Goloka to the ‘dreaming’ (material) creation of Maha-Vishnu?
Like the roots of a banyan tree, the embodied nitya-baddha soul’s karma weaves and interweaves throughout the temporary material universe or mahat-tattva confusing and inducing the embodied baddha-jiva to the conviction they are their temporary ethereal and biological bodily vessels when factually the entire material creation is nothing other than the imaginations and dreams of the conditioned soul (baddha-jiva) facilitated by the dreaming Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
This quote is an important point when understanding what a ‘dream’ is on the highest platform -
Srila Prabhupada – “The Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
This quote makes it very clear that we cannot compare our mundane biological dreams with the transcendental dreams of Maha-Vishnu or even the marginal living entities secondary inferior unembodied nitya-baddha sub-conscious dream state.
Only when the nitya-baddha dreaming state becomes further contained (They are first contained in an ethereal body within the mahat-tattva) in a biological vessel within the mahat-tattva does its dreams become true illusion and almost meaningless.
However, on the higher material ethereal heavenly worlds where the marginal living entity in their secondary nitya-baddha sub-conscious state is contained in an ethereal body, all thoughts, dreams and imaginations there are on the level of actual reality of the mahat-tattva yet temporary.
Therefore on the heavenly planets of the mahat-tattva and even its Satya-yuga’s on the middle planetary systems like our earth planet, there is also no difference between ‘thoughts’ and ‘actions’.
Only at the end of the Dwarpa-yuga and the entire Kali-yuga does ones thoughts, imaginings and dreams within the biological gross body do not materialize and create karma.
In this way those trapped in the Kali-yuga have dreams and thoughts that ARE dreams or illusion (fantasy) and are not to be confused with the spirit souls dreams or the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. This is an important point because so many are comparing their biological dreams of fantasy with their nitya-baddha dreams of temporary reality.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
Srila Prabhupada – “After being in contact with the material modes of nature, the living entity develops the subtle and gross bodies. When the living entity is fortunate enough to associate with Sri Narada Mahamuni or his servants, he is liberated from this ‘dreamland’ of material creation and the bodily conception of life”. Srimad Bhagavatam 4/29/83/
Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a ‘dream’. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.2.
Srila Prabhupada – “This material world is a product of the mahat-tattva, which is a state of the Lord's dreaming condition in His yoga-nidra mystic slumber in the Causal Ocean, and yet the whole creation appears to be a factual presentation of His creation. This means that the Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations. He can therefore bring everything under His transcendental control, and thus whenever and wherever He does appear, He does so in His fullness”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
We were originally ‘aware’ of ‘always’ being with Krsna, (nitya-siddha) but we chose to forget that fact and become ‘unaware’ of our perpetual nitya-siddha body and service to Krishna because we made the choice to not service Krishna which was the beginning of our fall down.
In that state of forgetfulness we think or dream we have fallen (As nitya-baddha), but actually we are not fallen. We simply have to wake up and remember who we really are, and then we will be in our original position
The dream condition and our dream identity (nitya-baddha conscious state) will then disappear and we will find ourselves in our natural position as nitya-siddha, just like a person who is dreaming wakes up on his own bed. Actually, he is always on his own bed, even in the dream. Similarly, we are always in Goloka even when we ‘dream’ or ‘think’ we are in the material creation.
In this way, Srila Prabhupada gives us the way to understand how we can find ourselves separated from Krsna without really “falling” from Vaikuntha even though it appears we have fallen due to forgetting who we really are. Srila Prabhupada in this way explains in his lectures how the living entities can fall down from their eternal relationship with Krsna without really falling down, this Book how this paradox comes about.
Is the jiva soul always called marginal energy?
Srila Prabhupada - “The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krishna’s marginal energy.” - Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968
Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…(In Vaikuntha) so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, then that is material”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with (This biological body or vessel and the material creation). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - “Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position. Bhagavad-Gita as it is, Introduction.
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". Germany, June 22, 1974
The jiva-soul is always marginal energy wether devotionally active in Goloka-Vrndavana, in Vaikuntha, or active in restricted vessels within the material creation, dormant in the Body of Maha-Vishnu or further inactive in the Vraja River and the Impersonal Brahmajyoti that are ALL occupied by nitya-baddha souls.
It must be clearly understood that ONLY the lower sub-conscious projected baddha-jiva subordinate self comes to these places they had previously have fallen too on possibly many occasions, no jiva-souls originate from the Body of Maha-Vishnu, the material creation, the Vraja River or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna album)
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati - “It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature” Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.
Srila Prabhupada – “Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord”. Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction
Srila Prabhupada – “Therefore the Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions in eternal association with the Lord.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport
Srila Prabhupada – “In his original state, there is no doubt of enjoyment; therefore, that is his real state.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport.
Srila Prabhupada – “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Originally the jiva soul was engaged with Krishna in an original loving selfless relationship as nitya-siddha from which he has fallen however, the fall down was not a physical fall down as their nitya-siddha body but rather was a ‘sub-conscious’ fall down from the ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body which is called the nitya-baddha-jiva
Srila Prabhupada - "We are all originally situated on the platform of Krishna consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of Krishna." - Letter of November 17, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - "He is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet. He is fallen in this material world, and he is again trying to make progress." Srimad Bhagavatam lecture of June 15, 1972
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world . . . There is possibility . . . even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down--what to speak of this material world." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on July 4, 1974
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . we have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
There is always a perpetual personal association with Krishna in the spiritual sky as nitya-siddha previous to being within the body of Maha-Vishnu (That is only temporarily possible as the secondary nitya-baddha ‘dream’ state). Also the idea the jiva soul originates from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Vraja River is also nonsense.
The origin of the jiva from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti is a myth and the origin of the jiva from Maha-Vishnu is another myth.
Srila Prabhupada - "Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration . . . After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls down from Brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna." – Letter to Madhudvisa Swami and Australian devotees 1972
Srila Prabhupada - "We have come from the spiritual world into this material world. We have forgotten our Father. So we have to revive this relationship with our Father . . . God or Krishna." - Lecture on October 7, 1975
Actually we are all pure devotees eternal associates of Krishna but we have forgotten that long, long, long, long, long ago. We have foolishly allowed ourselves to be covered, due to free will and choice, by the cloud of selfish desires, thoughts and dreams that blocks out our memory of who we really are. Such desires place us in dream vessels within the mahat-tattva dream creation of Maha Vishnu.
We just have to comprehend what eternal means. It means that once you are there (or better said; here), in the authentic ‘imperishable’ present, you were always there and will always be there even if you ‘dream’ you are not there. That is the meaning of beginningless, endless or eternal
Srila Prabhupada - "The word varnam refers to the lustre of one's original identity. The original lustre of gold or silver is brilliant. Similarly, the original lustre of the living being, who is part of the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1] , is the lustre of ananda, or pleasure. Anandamayo bhyasat. Every living entity has the right to become anandamaya, joyful, because he is part of the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], Krishna. Why should the living being be put into tribulation because of dirty contamination by the material modes of nature? The living entity should become purified and regain his svarupa, his original identity" Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48
Srila Prabhupada - "But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name . . . " - Letter to Jagadisha das Adhikari on April 25
Every marginal living being in the spiritual world (ALL OF US) as their full potential nitya-siddha body, has free will and the ability to choose. Because we are minute parts (originally and eternally independent bodily forms) of the Supreme, we have minute quantities of His qualities (78%).
One of Krishna’s qualities is independent free will. He does whatever He likes, whenever He likes, and it is always perfect. He is never bound by the reactions of His decisions, because He is transcendental to the material nature.
On the other hand, because we do not possess the same quantity of free will as Krishna, we can sometimes do what we like and sometimes not. Further, whenever we act, we have to suffer or enjoy the reactions of that decision.
Every living being in the spiritual world loves Krishna or God obviously.
This is the nature of the spiritual world. However, that love is not forced. For example, if I were to hold a gun to your head and say,” Love me,” you would naturally say, “Oh, yes, I love (serve) you.” But that would have no meaning. You cannot force anyone to love another person, for love comes from within naturally when the proper conditions arise.
Therefore, Krishna does not force the marginal living entities to love Him, for that would not be real love and it would not be satisfying to the Supreme Lord, who knows everything that is going on in the hearts of the marginal living entities.
Krishna is satisfied only by pure, natural and spontaneous love, without any traces of self-motivated desire, therefore true love (active service) is completely selfless. Consequently Krishna endows each and every marginal living entity with free will. With this free will, one can love Krishna or can choose to ignore Krishna and do their own thing. Free will therefore gives us the ability to forever increase our love for Krishna but can also give us the ability to go it alone without Krishna. If it was not this way, then how can there be genuine love?
The choice is entirely up to the marginal living entity. Those marginal living beings (nitya-siddhas) that love Krishna are situated in their full potential in the spiritual world in the complete ‘awareness’ of who they perpetually are, whereas those marginal living beings who choose to ignore Krishna and therefore NO LONGER continue to be ‘aware’ of their nitya-siddha body in Goloka are situated in the material world as their nitya-baddha secondary state which is but an echoe of their true nitya-siddha identity.
Those who don’t love Krishna, or who have become envious of the Lord’s position as the Supreme Enjoyer, cannot remain in the spiritual world ‘aware’ of their nitya-siddha body even for a moment. If it so happens that a marginal living entity becomes envious of the Lord for some reason, then he immediately falls from the spiritual world, not as their nitya-siddha body, but rather as their nitya-baddha sub-conscious secondary mundane ‘awareness’ for no envy of the Lord exists in the spiritual world.
Remember, the choice to love Krishna or not exists in each of us eternally.
This desire to become the opponent of the Lord, as the enjoyer is a sub-conscious mistaken desire and is not spiritual and therefore is ‘instantly’ transferred to the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.
As all desires in the spiritual world come from the spiritual platform, all marginal living entities there are completely spiritual and fixed as nitya-siddha however, as soon as they ‘sub-consciously’ put themselves before Krishna, they are immediately expelled from Goloka and from also the ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body and are instead immersed in the lower ‘awareness’ of their non-Krishna conscious sub-conscious state that is referred to as the nitya-baddha projected secondary self
Every desire in the spiritual world is immediately satisfied, because that is the nature of the spiritual world. But since the desire to be the Lord is not possible to satisfy in the spiritual world, one comes to the material world as their nitya-baddha sub-conscious bodiless state and given vessels by Maha-Vishnu in order to attempt to fulfil that desire. It is important also to understand that ones ‘svarupa’ or nitya-siddha body also remains in Goloka.
The material world or mahat-tattva is an amazing place, because the Lord has created the majestic DREAM that we can become God and enjoy the creation independently of Him. Krishna has created this dream illusion out of love for us because He allows us</SPAN> to forever increase our love for Him or forget Him if we choose. The choice is always ours. All nitya-siddha pure souls are allowed free will and choice otherwise there is no question of ‘giving love (service)’ however, 90% never ever choose to forget Krishna and enter His material creation.
Nevertheless, it must be understood that it is not in our power to create such a facility like the mahat-tattva separate creation from Krishna’s eternal abode that takes up 25% of the Spiritual creation or Brahmajyoti, while 75% remain within the ‘eternal presents’ of Goloka and Vaikuntha.
We are eternally under the jurisdiction of Krishna directly in Vaikuntha or indirectly in the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. All our facilities come from God
The mahat-tattva is likened to a jail created by state for the sake of the criminals who are not fit to remain in Goloka (due to their own choose and desire). Only Krishna can create such a facility like the mahat-tattva (material creation) via His Maha-Vishnu expansion. He does so just to allow us souls the opportunity to think ourselves God and try to enjoy the material energy separate from Him.
The obvious problem when one denies God and chooses to do their own thing is that the so-called enjoyment in the mahat-tattva is illusory and perishable and cannot remain for long. Everything here is temporary and ends up full of misery and frustration. One works so hard to create a family fortune only to experience hardship, disease, old age and death.
Why has Krishna created a world that is temporary and full of duality and misery like the mahat-tattva? The answer is simple Because He gives us the free will to choose to forever increase our love to Krishna, or use that free will and <SPAN>choose</SPAN> to attempt to enjoy separate from Him.
In either case Krishna supplies us with the mahat-tattva creation from His expansion Maha-Vishnu. He wants us to be happy and if we somehow believe going to the material world will make us happy, then He will facilitate our mistaken desires so we can learn for ourselves that this perishable creation only causes suffering. Krishna wants us to come to our senses and realize we have made a mistake in coming to the material world and to thus return to our original home, the spiritual world of Goloka-Vrndavana.
The material energy pushes the conditioned baddha-jiva souls with frustrations due to its temporary nature so that they will someday again turn towards the Lord, who is within their hearts as the Supersoul, and thus again surrender unto Him and His pure representative and begin to wake up from the material dream.
The Lord says that anyone who thus surrenders unto Him will quickly return to Him. The Lord also assists the marginal living entities by sending His pure devotees to speak the knowledge of the spiritual world to them to again re-awaken them to their genuine eternal nitya-siddha position that is perpetually in Goloka even while their limited ‘awareness’ is in the mahat-tattva (material creation).
Krishna also presents the Vedic literature through His chosen representatives (that can be Vishnu-Tattva or jiva-tattva) to open their eyes with transcendental knowledge of who they really are in the bigger picture of Goloka and Vaikuntha that is outside of the mundane perishable, decaying material creation or mahat-tattva.
The Lord is so concerned for the marginal living entities trapped in ethereal and biological vessels in the material world, that He periodically descends from the spiritual world Himself in order to display His transcendental pastimes and attract the conditioned nitya-baddha souls back to His eternal abode known as Goloka-Vrndavana to again re-establish, regain and remember the ‘awareness’ of their ‘forever present’, full spiritual potential, nitya-siddha ‘svarupa’ body that is ‘forever’ there in Goloka, due to the nature of the eternal presents of Goloka, even while one is ‘sub-consciously’ off as nitya-baddha foolishly dreaming in the mahat-tattva.
How did the marginal living entity fall down from Goloka?
One may also ask, if the marginal living entity has full knowledge in their nitya-siddha spiritual position (the soul is eternally full of knowledge and bliss in its full potential) why did one come to the material world, knowing that it is a place of suffering?
Since we are quantitatively different from the Lord, we can conclude that our quantity of bliss and knowledge is much smaller than that of the Lord, 78% to be exact in our full potential. However, since we are smaller receptacles of knowledge, we can easily be complete in knowledge according to our smaller capacity.
This does not mean that we possess all knowledge. It means that we possess only a small portion of knowledge compared to Krishna and His Vishnu expansions, enough to fulfil all our needs of free will and choice to forever increase our love and service to the Lord Krishna or choose to exist independently in the mahat-tattva.
It is important to understand that all marginal living entities originally come from Goloka
What makes things confusing to several is that some souls, who are actually baddha-jivas while in the material creation, stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva for what seems to be an almost eternity! This means many baddha-jiva souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation if they are not qualified to reunite with their nitya-siddha full potential or perpetual body.
In this way, the baddha-jiva sub-consciousness projection that starts off as a non Krishna conscious dream condition projected from the marginal living entities nitya-siddha body in Goloka is a formless state consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules. T
he baddha-jiva only manifests as form when a bodily vessel is provided by Maha-Vishnu from within his mahat-tattva clothes it. With this explanation, the following comment by Srila Prabhupada that is correctly understood and now made very clear.
It is imperative to recognize that all marginal living entities originally come from Goloka long, long, long, long, long before there ‘awareness’ of themselves was that of a mundane nitya-baddha ‘spiritual spark’, an atom in an effulgence or a ‘molecule’ in the light, such dormant states were attained AFTER their ‘sub-conscious (nitya-baddha)’ imagination of themselves first manifested from Goloka, and AFTER spending millions of life times in the mahat-tattva restricted within bodily containers.
Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his originbut he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna. Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Australia 1972
This is an important revelation at a time (the beginning of the 21st century) when some Vaishnava traditions foolishly mislead others to believe their origins are from the Brahma-sayujya Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, the Vraja River or the Body of Maha-Vishnu. All these states of dormant consciousness are only attained after ones nitya-baddha sub-consciousness first passes through the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu, it is important to understand that NO JIVA-SOUL ORIGINATE FROM MAHA-VISHNU.
Therefore those who foolishly believe and preach, no matter who they are, that ONLY the nitya-siddha jivas are exclusively expansions of Krishna and the ‘marginal jivas’ (like us) are expansions of Maha-Vishnu, are mistaken and have misunderstood Guru, Sadhu and Shastra.
The fact is, ALL of us, all marginal living entities are originally nitya-siddha and have always existed in an eternal state of ever-freshness and youthfulness. These qualities make every nitya-siddha devotee innovative perpetually in the mood of ‘eternal origin’ that has originated from Goloka-Vrndavana.
Srila Prabhupada - “We have all come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago”. Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
Srila Prabhupada in his lectures always says that originally we were all Krishna conscious living entities and on the Hare Krishna album He addresses a large audience with the words:
Srila Prabhupada - “We are all originally Krishna conscious entities . . .”
Srila Prabhupada - “The natural position of the living entity is to serve the Lord in a transcendental loving attitude. When the living entity wants to become Krsna Himself or imitate Krsna, he falls down into the material world. Since Krsna is the supreme father, His affection for the living entity is eternal. When the living entity falls down into the material world, the Supreme Lord, through His svam´sa expansion (Paramatma), keeps company with the living entity. In this way the living entity may some day return home, back to Godhead. Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53
Srila Prabhupada - “By misusing his independence, the living entity falls down from the service of the Lord and takes a position in this material world as an enjoyer. That is to say, the living entity takes his position within a material body. Wanting to take a very exalted position, the living entity instead becomes entangled in a repetition of birth and death. Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53.
While trapped in the material creation, it is very difficult to comprehend that one’s genuine perpetual body, known as ones ‘svarupa’ (OR NITYA-SIDDHA BODY), is eternally situated in Goloka even if one ‘thinks’, ‘dreams’ and ‘imagines’ they are in the material creation as an echo of themselves that is called NITYA-BADDHA.
In other words, to re-again, recover or remember ones ‘real imperishable svarupa identity’ back in the atmosphere of ‘the eternal presence’ and to again become ‘aware’ of the forever increasing loving devotion to Krishna within an eternal mood of ‘free will’ is to experience the full potential of being selflessly nitya-siddha.
The choice to love, serve or not serve Krishna will always be the selection of the marginal living entity to see if it is only Krishna one desires to serve. Without free will or choice, one is no better than a robot or android and is therefore unable to forever ‘choose for themselves’ to increase ones loving service attitude to Lord Krishna and His associates in unlimited ways in Goloka-Vrndavana, Vaikuntha or even in the mahat-tattva.
Once the living entity foolishly chooses to sub-consciously leave the perpetual imperishable Kingdom of God’s ‘eternal present’ (a devotional place devoid of the effect of past, present and future and always active</SPAN> with Krishna’s pastimes) in the Krsnaloka Spiritual Sky to foolishly take shelter of the perishable decaying material creation of material vessels, forgetfulness, fear, illusion, loneliness and pain, that the mahat-tattva dream creation’s of Maha-Vishnu is full of, one is quickly overcome by the maze of material existence and becomes lost within the cycle of birth and death.
The mahat-tattva or material creation, even though described as a dream of the jiva-soul (marginal living entity) and ultimately the dream of Maha Vishnu (Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.83), is also very real (unlike our biological dreams as already explained). His mahat-tattva creation is just as real as Goloka and Vaikuntha, <SPAN>but temporary due to the influence of mundane time of past, present and future.
Srila Prabhupada compares the mahat-tattva to the jail correctional centres in our human society, the mahat-tattva is for those rebellious souls who choose no longer to serve Krishna but instead seek out their own desires and self-absorbed dreams.
Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual (the eternal present) reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan
Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purport.)
This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that we only ‘dream’, ‘imagine’ and ‘think’ we leave however, don’t delude yourself, those dreams are very real although VERY temporary, so factually we do fall down, or rather, ONLY our ‘awareness’ of whom we really are is compromised and we forget not only Krishna but also the body we serve as.
We do experience the material world as real and the fact is, whether we like it or not, yes, we are in the material world because the ‘awareness’ of Goloka and of our svarupa body, is covered by the reality we have created in the material world, it’s very real and only called an illusion because it is temporary, it fades, we see old age, disease and death – even that is experienced as real, even though temporary.
Just like we believe a dream is real while sleeping in our present body. There is a fine line between reality and <illusion, one is imperishable and the other is perishable – explained in a nutshell! The mahat-tattva is the place where such dreams go and that is also why Maha-Vishnu is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva, which takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti that caters for only 10% of marginal living entities.
Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive (Regain, re-establish, wake up from the dream, remember who we really are as a body eternally in a state of originality) our Krishna consciousness”. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - "As soon as we understand that (my svarupa body is always in Krsnaloka or Vaikuntha or even both), "I have nothing to do with (the material world and its bodily vessels my sub-conscious fallen nitya-baddha condition is housed in). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever (conditioned as nitya-baddha in the material world)" (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are ever-liberated (meaning in our original and eternal state, we are all nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual but is sometimes overcrowded with cloud (known as the mahat-tattva or material creation that is in one corner of the Spiritual Sky), this is Maya (The cloud is created by Maha-Vishnu and His Wife Maya-Devi, through her powerful s'akti, controls all the bodily vessels occupied by the visiting DREAMING baddha-jivas)". Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967
Srila Prabhupada - "This is called Maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)
ALL living entities were created as sat, cit, ananda in the form of eternal vigraha in the beginning (which paradoxically was beginingless). In this way, the original residence of all living entities (marginal beings) is their original home Goloka-Vrndavana or Krsnaloka, which is the imperishable Kingdom of God.
The full potential and original feature of all living entities is a two arm human looking form
Srila Prabhupada - "It is the living entity's constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krishna because he is the marginal energy of Krishna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krishna has three varieties of energy" Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109
All of Krishna's marginal 'sparks' and so called 'atoms (souls) in the effulgence have the same ORIGINAL bodily features like Krishna - sat-cit-ananda-vigraha. The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities is a two arm human looking form
Yasomatinandana – “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”
Madhudvisa – “The question is that whether the eternal form of the spirit soul is a human form or is it”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krishna, two hands, two legs”.
Hari-sauri – “How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?”
Srila Prabhupada – “[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul”.
Hari-sauri - “They are covered in the spiritual world?”
Madhudvisa - “He is asking if they were actually covered in the spiritual world as well”.
Srila Prabhupada - “Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krishna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krishna," he becomes flower, voluntarily”.
Srila Prabhupada – “And he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krishna as cow, he serves Krishna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact". Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975
Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg. 4.11]. That is Krishna’s all-powerfulness, spiritual life."
Hari Sauri dasa – “The fact is that spiritual form is inconceivable to our present senses. In the material world we try to measure things. But to measure anything, there has to be a reference point and our own bodies are the reference we use to understand the rest of the world around us.
Thus our sense of existence is limited to the actions and existence of our own bodies. One devotee has given some examples of drinking or jumping in water or sitting on a chair to explain your experience of past, present and future. Once an action is completed, it is gone, it is in the past. As for the future, it is not manifest to us.
We do not know what will come next. We thus have a sense of separation from the action and the object, both in the past and the future. But in the spiritual world Krishna is the object and all action is for pleasing Him. There is never any separation from Krishna.
Krishna continuously dominates the consciousness of every living being and action is the eternal flow of service to Krishna. It never stops yet it takes on unlimited variety of performance”. (End of quote)
The jiva tattva's take shelter under hladhini s’akti or the mercy of Radharani, they can never become hladhini s’akti because no jiva tattva can become Vishnu tattva - taking shelter, yes, become hladhini S’akti is not possible. Although obviously some Gopis are Vishnu tattva while others are jiva tattva - there is no third category of souls
Srila Prabhupada explains this very clearly - ‘We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities… Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion (vibhinnamsa) is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are’. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968
In Prabhupada’s 1969 lecture on Radhastami, which he gave in London, he said, “Radharani is the pleasure potency, hladhini s’akti.”
The living entities ARE the marginal energy or tatastha s’akti that is not some place or region in the universe as some suggest, but is what we are, there is no something else because there are only two types of living entities – Vishnu-tattva and jiva-tattva
The marginal living entity, jiva-tattva or other words that simple mean jiva tattva, like tatastha s’akti, is a bodily form in their original full constitutional foundation and potential when they realize their true identity of who they really are and have always been, which is expressed as nitya-siddha in their innovative perpetual position.
So marginal, jiva tattva and tatastha simply means the ability to choose the land and the ocean or Goloka and the mahat-tattva. The marginal living entity is therefore known as "tatastha s’akti"
NOTE, there are 170 different ‘jiva’ names that all mean jiva-tattva in different spiritual and material pastimes.
Srila Prabhupada - “The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore, two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). Letter Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu
Srila Prabhupada - "The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-Maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- Maya). SB 3.23.10 pp.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.
Srila Prabhupada - "The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp.
Srila Prabhupada - "The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY; he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord." BG 13.23 pp.
In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently.
So, marginal energy, or tatastha-s’akti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul.
It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities.
Srila Prabhupada - "If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96)
Srila Prabhupada never used the word ‘tatastha s’akti much in his books, he preferred to use the word ‘marginal’ living entity.
Srila Prabhupada ‘personally’ told me (Gauragopala dasa) once in the Sydney Temple room in February 1973 (while I was cleaning) that the body I now have is not my real body and that my real body is in Vaikuntha “You just have to realize it” he added “It is there right now” he further explained. Being very young I did not fully appreciate what he was saying.
We have to realize that being <SPAN>marginal means free will, even in Goloka. Without it how can there be genuine Love? Try to comprehend. We are given free will to increase our love for Krishna but that also allows us to miss use it if we desire.
Srila Prabhupada - “The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krishna’s marginal energy.” - Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968
Sunday, November 28, 2010
We're eternally under the jurisdiction of Krishna directly in Vaikuntha or indirectly in the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Visnu
Ones svarupa is not restricted to a particular body in Goloka
Srila Prabhupada – “Some devotee wants to serve Krishna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krishna," he becomes flower, voluntarily. And he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krishna as cow, he serves Krishna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything”. It is inconceivable, yet a fact. Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975
Srila Prabhupada – “We are also expansions of Krishna’s form”. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968\
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs”. Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975
Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krishna, we have a perfect relationship with Krishna. What causes us to fall down in the material world, because we are already serving Krishna?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down”. Bhagavad-gita lecture Melbourne on June 25, 1974
Hari Sauri – “In the spiritual world, the force that moves everything is Krsna Himself. There is only the ‘present’. i.e. the ‘presence’ of Krsna. So there is no sense of past and future, only eternal exchange with Krsna. There is no time in the spiritual world because Krsna Himself is the supreme regulating principle”. http://www.lotusimprints.com/new/blog/
Hridayananda – “They say that God should have created us so that we...”
Srila Prabhupada – “He has created already perfect. Because you are perfect, therefore you have got the independence to misuse. You are not a dead stone. That is perfection. Ye yathä mäà prapadyante. You can go anywhere, sarva-ga. You can go to the Vaikuntha. Yänti deva-vratä devän. You can go to the higher planets. You can go to the hell. When you go to the hell, it is your choice. GOD HAS GIVEN YOU ALL PERFECTION. Pürëam idaà pürëam adaù pürëät pürëam udacyate, everything is complete, perfect, and because you are perfect, you have got the independence. But misusing that independence, you are imperfect”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Again, reviving your independence, you can become perfect, although you are imperfect now. Krishna consciousness movement means raising the imperfect to the perfect platform.
That is Krishna consciousness. Other fools, they say, “We are perfect now.” In a fallen condition also, they’re thinking perfect. That is Maya. Äsuréà räkñaséà caiva mohinéà prakåtià çritäù”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Krishna has already made you perfect. There is no doubt about it. Just like some of our students. All of a sudden, they deviate, go away. So what is that? Our movement is imperfect, or he’s imperfect?”
Hridayananda – “He’s imperfect”.
Srila Prabhupada – “He’s imperfect. Our movement is perfect. But he becomes imperfect by his misuse of independence. He thinks that “This is nice,” and goes to hell. What can be done? That independence is there. That is perfectness”.
Hridayananda – “So in other words, these, uh, the people that argue like that, they, they actually are lazy. They don’t want to surrender to God. Then they blame God”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. Because they have become imperfect, therefore they are blaming God. “God is good”; they forget this. That is their imperfectness. One side, they say, “God is good.” Still, they’re blaming God. What is this nonsense? If He’s God, God is good, how can you blame Him? God is good; in all circumstances, He’s good. That is the meaning of good. Good does not mean that one time you are good and next time you are bad...”
Umapati – “Well, the argument is that if God is so all-powerful, why does He let me fall? Why doesn’t He save me, save me from my own foolishness? Why doesn’t He...?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, He’s saving you, but you don’t carry His order, just like I say, “Chant sixteen rounds.” If you do not do it. What can I do? That is your fault”.
Satsvarupa – “If God were to force us, there’d be no love”. (Conversation, Los Angeles, December 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." - Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes
Without that choice we are simply senseless Androids
Also tatastha s’akti refers to, and is, the jiva souls sovereignty as an independent ‘marginal’ living being (you and I) who have their own autonomous identity, personality, individuality and desires that manifest due to their own way of thinking, even in Goloka in the way one chooses to serve Krishna.
Therefore having the independence to choose is eternal, thus the marginal living entity without end exists independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather, under the influence of free will where the marginal living entity can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable superior energy (Serving Lord Krishna with the full memory and awareness of their endless nitya-siddha body), or take shelter in the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) as their secondary nitya-baddha condition that only acquires material perishable bodily forms or vessels from the dreams of Maha-Vishnu.
We are eternally under the jurisdiction of Krishna directly in Vaikuntha or indirectly in the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. All our facilities come from God. This is an important point to understand.
Although there is a paradox to all this or an apparent contradiction here, which is, even though the marginal living entities are independent thinkers, still they are always fully dependant on the Lords Superior (Krishna) or the controller of the inferior energy (Maha-Vishnu) to express their independent desires greed of selfishness to ones own desires or servitude and selflessness to Krishna.
We (the jiva-soul or tatastha-s’akti) have no beginning or end (never created) because we have always existed; the marginal living entities are not in region or place in creation.
The marginal plane IS the individual independent living beings, tatastha-s’akti therefore is NOT a position or area in creation but is rather the status of the marginal living entity whether in Goloka as their full potential nitya-siddha selfless body or in the mahat-tattva as nitya-baddha restricted selfish awareness.
The marginal living entity (tatastha s’akti) is simply the name for the jiva soul’s individual identity that eternally exists as an independent free thinking entities or beings that can choose to serve the Superior energy (Krishna) as their perpetual nitya-siddha body, or manifest their own awareness of existence as a delusional manifestation (nitya-baddha) that is covered by the inferior energy (fleeting material energy of subtle [ethereal] and gross [biological] bodily vessels) within the mahat-tattva creation (material creation or Cosmo’s) of Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada – “The Vaishnavas are free of attachment to this world because generally the material world is accepted as an object of sense gratification. The Vaishnavas are not in favour of sense gratification; therefore, they are not attached to material activities”. Bhaktivedanta purport of the Eighty-seventh Chapter of Krsna, "Prayers by the Personified Vedas."
Srila Prabhupada – “The Vaishnava accepts this material world according to the regulative principles of the Vedic injunctions. Since the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the original cause of everything, the Vaishnava sees everything in relationship with Krsna, even in this material world. By such advanced knowledge, everything becomes spiritualised. In other words, everything in the material world is already spiritual, but due to our lack of knowledge we see things as material”. AC Bhaktivedanta purport of the Eighty-seventh Chapter of Krsna, "Prayers by the Personified Vedas."
Everything in the material world (mahat tattva) is the dream of Maha-Vishnu, the material cosmos are His dreams and we can, due to free will and the ability to choose, enter His dreams of bodily vessels He has created in order to experience our own dreams, thoughts and desires without Krishna.
Both dreams (the imaginings of the spirit soul and the dreams of Maha-Vishnu) coincide with each other however, it is Maha-Vishnu who provides the facilities for all marginal living beings who have foolishly chosen to enter His mahat tattva dream domain as nitya-baddha to experience their own non-Krishna Conscious desires.
Therefore, from that perpetual unending place of no past or future (only the eternal presence Krishna Lila), the material creation is simply an illusion, a momentary dream that is real for a moment in time then disappears and fades.
Therefore, this place of ‘the dreaming’ is called the PERISHABLE mahat-tattva that is a real phenomenon in one corner of the Spiritual Sky yet is temporary.
Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream, all existence in this world is the dream of Maha-Vishnu” Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.83.
Srila Prabhupada –“This conception of the material world is very nicely explained by Srila Rupa Gosvami, who said that renunciation of this material world as illusory or false without knowledge that the material world is also the manifestation of the Supreme Lord is of no practical value”. Bhaktivedanta purport of the Eighty-seventh Chapter of Krsna, "Prayers by the Personified Vedas."
Srila Prabhupada - "The word varnam refers to the lustre of one's original identity. The original lustre of gold or silver is brilliant. Similarly, the original lustre of the living being, who is part of the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], is the lustre of ananda, or pleasure. Ānandamayo bhyāsāt. Every living entity has the right to become ānandamaya, joyful, because he is part of the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], Krishna. Why should the living being be put into tribulation because of dirty contamination by the material modes of nature? The living entity should become purified and regain his svarupa, his original identity" Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48
Srila Prabhupada - "But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name " - Letter to Jagadisha April 25, 1970
The mahat-tattva is likened to a jail created by state for the sake of the criminals who are not fit to remain in Goloka (due to their own choose and desire). Only Krishna can create such a facility like the mahat-tattva (material creation) via His Maha-Vishnu expansion. He does so just to allow us souls the opportunity to think ourselves God and try to enjoy the material energy separate from Him.
The obvious problem when one denies God and chooses to do their own thing is that the so-called enjoyment in the mahat-tattva is illusory and perishable and cannot remain for long. Everything here is temporary and ends up full of misery and frustration. One works so hard to create a family fortune only to experience hardship, disease, old age and death.
Why has Krishna created a world that is temporary and full of duality and misery like the mahat-tattva?
The answer is simple, because He gives us the free will to choose to forever increase our love to Krishna in Vaikuntha, or use that free will and choose to attempt to enjoy separate from Him in the mahat-tattva material creation of Maha-Vishnu.
Krishna supplies us with the mahat-tattva creation from His expansion Maha-Vishnu.
He wants us to be happy and if we somehow believe going to the material world will make us happy, then He will facilitate our mistaken desires so we can learn for ourselves that this perishable creation only causes suffering.
Krishna wants us to come to our senses and realize we have made a mistake in coming to the material world and to thus return to our original home, the spiritual world of Goloka-Vrndavana.
The material energy pushes the conditioned nitya-baddha souls with frustrations due to its temporary nature so that they will someday again turn toward the Lord, who is within their hearts as the Supersoul, and thus again surrender unto Him and His pure representative and begin to wake up from the material dream.
The Lord says that anyone who thus surrenders unto Him will quickly return to Him. The Lord also assists the marginal living entities by sending His pure devotees to speak the knowledge of the spiritual world to them to again re-awaken them to their genuine eternal nitya-siddha position that is perpetually in Goloka even while their limited ‘awareness as nitya-baddha’ is in the mahat-tattva (material creation).
Krishna also presents the Vedic literature through His chosen representatives (that can be Vishnu-Tattva or jiva-tattva) to open their eyes with transcendental knowledge of who they really are in the bigger picture of Goloka and Vaikuntha that is outside of the mundane perishable, decaying material creation or mahat-tattva.
The Lord is so concerned for the marginal living entities trapped in ethereal and biological vessels in the material world, that He periodically descends from the spiritual world Himself in order to display His transcendental pastimes and attract the conditioned nitya-baddha souls back to their nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body that is perpetually in His eternal abode known as Goloka-Vrndavana.
In other words Krishna wants all marginal living entities to again re-establish, regain and remember the ‘awareness’ of their ‘forever present’, full spiritual potential nitya-siddha ‘svarupa’ body that is ‘forever’ there in Goloka, due to the nature of the eternal presence of Goloka, even while one is ‘sub-consciously’ dreaming as nitya-baddha within the mahat-tattva or material dream of Maha-Vishnu.
Trivikrama asks Srila Prabhupada – “You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I read ...
Srila Prabhupada – “The same example. In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am thinking, “Oh, tiger is there - It is simply dreaming condition”.
Trivikrama – “But so many Vaishnavas are praying...
Srila Prabhupada – “So as soon as you understand that “This is not... I am not in contact with tiger, it is all a dream,” then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand “All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious. If you keep in Krsna consciousness, that “I am eternal servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. . . .
Trivikrama – “This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...
Srila Prabhupada - “That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Krsna’s service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of Maya. You see?” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
In this lecture Srila Prabhupada is very clear. Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world (As nitya-siddha). But when we want to take Krsna’s position, Krsna puts us into a dreaming state (As nitya-baddha).
In this dreaming state we forget our actual position and are thus free to act out our desire to become the supreme enjoyer. This state of forgetfulness and dreaming is sometimes characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world. But Srila Prabhupada explains that in reality we are not fallen. We are simply in a dreaming state. Srila Prabhupada says that this is a very important point and asks the devotees to carefully consider it.
This concept that we are not really fallen offers an explanation for the statements that “no one falls from Vaikuntha.” We do not fall. We simply forget our original relationship of service to Krsna. Some might argue that we have eternally forgotten Krsna. But that is not supported by Srila Prabhupada’s purport to the text under consideration.
Srila Prabhupada – “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
Srila Prabhupada – “Some devotee wants to serve Krishna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krishna," he becomes flower, voluntarily. And he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krishna as cow, he serves Krishna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything”. It is inconceivable, yet a fact. Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975
Srila Prabhupada – “We are also expansions of Krishna’s form”. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 — San Francisco, March 28, 1968\
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs”. Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975
Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krishna, we have a perfect relationship with Krishna. What causes us to fall down in the material world, because we are already serving Krishna?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down”. Bhagavad-gita lecture Melbourne on June 25, 1974
Hari Sauri – “In the spiritual world, the force that moves everything is Krsna Himself. There is only the ‘present’. i.e. the ‘presence’ of Krsna. So there is no sense of past and future, only eternal exchange with Krsna. There is no time in the spiritual world because Krsna Himself is the supreme regulating principle”. http://www.lotusimprints.com/new/blog/
Hridayananda – “They say that God should have created us so that we...”
Srila Prabhupada – “He has created already perfect. Because you are perfect, therefore you have got the independence to misuse. You are not a dead stone. That is perfection. Ye yathä mäà prapadyante. You can go anywhere, sarva-ga. You can go to the Vaikuntha. Yänti deva-vratä devän. You can go to the higher planets. You can go to the hell. When you go to the hell, it is your choice. GOD HAS GIVEN YOU ALL PERFECTION. Pürëam idaà pürëam adaù pürëät pürëam udacyate, everything is complete, perfect, and because you are perfect, you have got the independence. But misusing that independence, you are imperfect”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Again, reviving your independence, you can become perfect, although you are imperfect now. Krishna consciousness movement means raising the imperfect to the perfect platform.
That is Krishna consciousness. Other fools, they say, “We are perfect now.” In a fallen condition also, they’re thinking perfect. That is Maya. Äsuréà räkñaséà caiva mohinéà prakåtià çritäù”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Krishna has already made you perfect. There is no doubt about it. Just like some of our students. All of a sudden, they deviate, go away. So what is that? Our movement is imperfect, or he’s imperfect?”
Hridayananda – “He’s imperfect”.
Srila Prabhupada – “He’s imperfect. Our movement is perfect. But he becomes imperfect by his misuse of independence. He thinks that “This is nice,” and goes to hell. What can be done? That independence is there. That is perfectness”.
Hridayananda – “So in other words, these, uh, the people that argue like that, they, they actually are lazy. They don’t want to surrender to God. Then they blame God”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. Because they have become imperfect, therefore they are blaming God. “God is good”; they forget this. That is their imperfectness. One side, they say, “God is good.” Still, they’re blaming God. What is this nonsense? If He’s God, God is good, how can you blame Him? God is good; in all circumstances, He’s good. That is the meaning of good. Good does not mean that one time you are good and next time you are bad...”
Umapati – “Well, the argument is that if God is so all-powerful, why does He let me fall? Why doesn’t He save me, save me from my own foolishness? Why doesn’t He...?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, He’s saving you, but you don’t carry His order, just like I say, “Chant sixteen rounds.” If you do not do it. What can I do? That is your fault”.
Satsvarupa – “If God were to force us, there’d be no love”. (Conversation, Los Angeles, December 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." - Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes
Without that choice we are simply senseless Androids
Also tatastha s’akti refers to, and is, the jiva souls sovereignty as an independent ‘marginal’ living being (you and I) who have their own autonomous identity, personality, individuality and desires that manifest due to their own way of thinking, even in Goloka in the way one chooses to serve Krishna.
Therefore having the independence to choose is eternal, thus the marginal living entity without end exists independently, not in some place in-between the spiritual creation and the material creation, but rather, under the influence of free will where the marginal living entity can CHOOSE BETWEEN the imperishable superior energy (Serving Lord Krishna with the full memory and awareness of their endless nitya-siddha body), or take shelter in the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) as their secondary nitya-baddha condition that only acquires material perishable bodily forms or vessels from the dreams of Maha-Vishnu.
We are eternally under the jurisdiction of Krishna directly in Vaikuntha or indirectly in the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. All our facilities come from God. This is an important point to understand.
Although there is a paradox to all this or an apparent contradiction here, which is, even though the marginal living entities are independent thinkers, still they are always fully dependant on the Lords Superior (Krishna) or the controller of the inferior energy (Maha-Vishnu) to express their independent desires greed of selfishness to ones own desires or servitude and selflessness to Krishna.
We (the jiva-soul or tatastha-s’akti) have no beginning or end (never created) because we have always existed; the marginal living entities are not in region or place in creation.
The marginal plane IS the individual independent living beings, tatastha-s’akti therefore is NOT a position or area in creation but is rather the status of the marginal living entity whether in Goloka as their full potential nitya-siddha selfless body or in the mahat-tattva as nitya-baddha restricted selfish awareness.
The marginal living entity (tatastha s’akti) is simply the name for the jiva soul’s individual identity that eternally exists as an independent free thinking entities or beings that can choose to serve the Superior energy (Krishna) as their perpetual nitya-siddha body, or manifest their own awareness of existence as a delusional manifestation (nitya-baddha) that is covered by the inferior energy (fleeting material energy of subtle [ethereal] and gross [biological] bodily vessels) within the mahat-tattva creation (material creation or Cosmo’s) of Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada – “The Vaishnavas are free of attachment to this world because generally the material world is accepted as an object of sense gratification. The Vaishnavas are not in favour of sense gratification; therefore, they are not attached to material activities”. Bhaktivedanta purport of the Eighty-seventh Chapter of Krsna, "Prayers by the Personified Vedas."
Srila Prabhupada – “The Vaishnava accepts this material world according to the regulative principles of the Vedic injunctions. Since the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the original cause of everything, the Vaishnava sees everything in relationship with Krsna, even in this material world. By such advanced knowledge, everything becomes spiritualised. In other words, everything in the material world is already spiritual, but due to our lack of knowledge we see things as material”. AC Bhaktivedanta purport of the Eighty-seventh Chapter of Krsna, "Prayers by the Personified Vedas."
Everything in the material world (mahat tattva) is the dream of Maha-Vishnu, the material cosmos are His dreams and we can, due to free will and the ability to choose, enter His dreams of bodily vessels He has created in order to experience our own dreams, thoughts and desires without Krishna.
Both dreams (the imaginings of the spirit soul and the dreams of Maha-Vishnu) coincide with each other however, it is Maha-Vishnu who provides the facilities for all marginal living beings who have foolishly chosen to enter His mahat tattva dream domain as nitya-baddha to experience their own non-Krishna Conscious desires.
Therefore, from that perpetual unending place of no past or future (only the eternal presence Krishna Lila), the material creation is simply an illusion, a momentary dream that is real for a moment in time then disappears and fades.
Therefore, this place of ‘the dreaming’ is called the PERISHABLE mahat-tattva that is a real phenomenon in one corner of the Spiritual Sky yet is temporary.
Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream, all existence in this world is the dream of Maha-Vishnu” Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.83.
Srila Prabhupada –“This conception of the material world is very nicely explained by Srila Rupa Gosvami, who said that renunciation of this material world as illusory or false without knowledge that the material world is also the manifestation of the Supreme Lord is of no practical value”. Bhaktivedanta purport of the Eighty-seventh Chapter of Krsna, "Prayers by the Personified Vedas."
Srila Prabhupada - "The word varnam refers to the lustre of one's original identity. The original lustre of gold or silver is brilliant. Similarly, the original lustre of the living being, who is part of the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], is the lustre of ananda, or pleasure. Ānandamayo bhyāsāt. Every living entity has the right to become ānandamaya, joyful, because he is part of the sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], Krishna. Why should the living being be put into tribulation because of dirty contamination by the material modes of nature? The living entity should become purified and regain his svarupa, his original identity" Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48
Srila Prabhupada - "But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name " - Letter to Jagadisha April 25, 1970
The mahat-tattva is likened to a jail created by state for the sake of the criminals who are not fit to remain in Goloka (due to their own choose and desire). Only Krishna can create such a facility like the mahat-tattva (material creation) via His Maha-Vishnu expansion. He does so just to allow us souls the opportunity to think ourselves God and try to enjoy the material energy separate from Him.
The obvious problem when one denies God and chooses to do their own thing is that the so-called enjoyment in the mahat-tattva is illusory and perishable and cannot remain for long. Everything here is temporary and ends up full of misery and frustration. One works so hard to create a family fortune only to experience hardship, disease, old age and death.
Why has Krishna created a world that is temporary and full of duality and misery like the mahat-tattva?
The answer is simple, because He gives us the free will to choose to forever increase our love to Krishna in Vaikuntha, or use that free will and choose to attempt to enjoy separate from Him in the mahat-tattva material creation of Maha-Vishnu.
Krishna supplies us with the mahat-tattva creation from His expansion Maha-Vishnu.
He wants us to be happy and if we somehow believe going to the material world will make us happy, then He will facilitate our mistaken desires so we can learn for ourselves that this perishable creation only causes suffering.
Krishna wants us to come to our senses and realize we have made a mistake in coming to the material world and to thus return to our original home, the spiritual world of Goloka-Vrndavana.
The material energy pushes the conditioned nitya-baddha souls with frustrations due to its temporary nature so that they will someday again turn toward the Lord, who is within their hearts as the Supersoul, and thus again surrender unto Him and His pure representative and begin to wake up from the material dream.
The Lord says that anyone who thus surrenders unto Him will quickly return to Him. The Lord also assists the marginal living entities by sending His pure devotees to speak the knowledge of the spiritual world to them to again re-awaken them to their genuine eternal nitya-siddha position that is perpetually in Goloka even while their limited ‘awareness as nitya-baddha’ is in the mahat-tattva (material creation).
Krishna also presents the Vedic literature through His chosen representatives (that can be Vishnu-Tattva or jiva-tattva) to open their eyes with transcendental knowledge of who they really are in the bigger picture of Goloka and Vaikuntha that is outside of the mundane perishable, decaying material creation or mahat-tattva.
The Lord is so concerned for the marginal living entities trapped in ethereal and biological vessels in the material world, that He periodically descends from the spiritual world Himself in order to display His transcendental pastimes and attract the conditioned nitya-baddha souls back to their nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body that is perpetually in His eternal abode known as Goloka-Vrndavana.
In other words Krishna wants all marginal living entities to again re-establish, regain and remember the ‘awareness’ of their ‘forever present’, full spiritual potential nitya-siddha ‘svarupa’ body that is ‘forever’ there in Goloka, due to the nature of the eternal presence of Goloka, even while one is ‘sub-consciously’ dreaming as nitya-baddha within the mahat-tattva or material dream of Maha-Vishnu.
Trivikrama asks Srila Prabhupada – “You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I read ...
Srila Prabhupada – “The same example. In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am thinking, “Oh, tiger is there - It is simply dreaming condition”.
Trivikrama – “But so many Vaishnavas are praying...
Srila Prabhupada – “So as soon as you understand that “This is not... I am not in contact with tiger, it is all a dream,” then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand “All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious. If you keep in Krsna consciousness, that “I am eternal servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. . . .
Trivikrama – “This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...
Srila Prabhupada - “That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Krsna’s service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of Maya. You see?” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
In this lecture Srila Prabhupada is very clear. Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krsna in the spiritual world (As nitya-siddha). But when we want to take Krsna’s position, Krsna puts us into a dreaming state (As nitya-baddha).
In this dreaming state we forget our actual position and are thus free to act out our desire to become the supreme enjoyer. This state of forgetfulness and dreaming is sometimes characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world. But Srila Prabhupada explains that in reality we are not fallen. We are simply in a dreaming state. Srila Prabhupada says that this is a very important point and asks the devotees to carefully consider it.
This concept that we are not really fallen offers an explanation for the statements that “no one falls from Vaikuntha.” We do not fall. We simply forget our original relationship of service to Krsna. Some might argue that we have eternally forgotten Krsna. But that is not supported by Srila Prabhupada’s purport to the text under consideration.
Srila Prabhupada – “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
ORIGIN OF THE JIVA SOUL - Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53 You gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world.
Srila Prabhupada mentions in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 of the Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna says - "Don't you remember me? I was your very close friend, but you gave up My Company and came to this material world".
When asked directly about whether the jiva was ever in the spiritual world, Srila Prabhupada mentions in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 of the Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna (in the form of a Brahmana) says to King Puranjana (in his next life, as the daughter of Kind Vidarbha) "Don't you remember me? I was your very close friend, but you gave up My Company and came to this material world".
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.52: The Brahmana inquired as follows: Who are you? Whose wife or daughter are you? Who is the man laying here? It appears you are lamenting for this dead body. Don't you recognize Me? I am your eternal friend. You may remember that many times in the past you have consulted Me.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53: The Brahmana continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.54: My dear gentle friend, both you and I are exactly like two swans. We live together in the same heart, which is just like the Mānasa Lake. Although we have been living together for many thousands of years, we are still far away from our original home.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.55: My dear friend, you are now My very same friend. Since you left Me, you have become more and more materialistic, and not seeing Me, you have been travelling in different forms throughout this material world, which was created by some woman.
In understanding Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 7 Chapter 1 Text 35 Purport one has to first understand that Jaya and Vijaya caused an offence to Brahmanas and as a result were given two choices to atone from their offence.
They could either take three births in the material world as Demons or they could take seven births as devotees. They chose to be in the material body as powerful demons.
Now they come from Vaikuntha under Krishna’s compassion meaning they were given the opportunity to engage in Krishna’s pastimes while in the material world as Demons, so when their offence was atoned they were immediately re-established in their eternal original svarupa in Vaikuntha.
It must be understood they new they made a mistake by offending Brahmanas; at no point did they give up Krishna as we have done.
In other parts of Srila Prabhupada’s writings, he calls their offence as a fall down, this is why in the purport of the Srimad Bhagavatam 7.1.35 Srila Prabhupada says “This very significant question would be difficult for an ordinary person to answer, but Narada Muni, being an authority, could answer it”.
Now those who are associates of the Lord of course do not leave Goloka for the material dream or fall down AS LONG AS THEY CHOOSE TO SERVE KRISHNA however, there are those, less than 10% of Krishna jiva-tattva associates in Vaikuntha and Goloka, who DO choose to come to this material world and forget Krishna, they are only interested in their own exploits and want nothing to do with Krishna.
That can include any jiva-tattva (marginal) associate of Krishnas in Goloka who no longer choose to be an associate, any jiva-tattva can leave Goloka for the material creation, but most choose not to make that mistake. The important point is THERE IS ALWAYS CHOICE.
They therefore think, dream or imagine they fall – actually no falls from Vaikuntha because their nitya-siddha body is perpetually fixed there within the eternal presence of Krishna’s pastimes.
As the CC states all marginal living entities are originally nitya-siddha and only the Vishnu-tattvas never forget their position in Krishna lila. Some come to the material creation in Krishna’s lila while others come to for fill their own selfish dreams.
As there are no killing of demons in Vaikuntha, Krishna plays this role as His Vishnu expansion in the material creation with all his nitya siddha jiva-tattvas and Vishnu-tattva associates however, there are other jiva-tattva souls who choose to leave Goloka simply because of their choice not to be with Krishna, THERE IS NO MATERIAL CAUSE FOR THEM FORGETTING GOLOKA OR VAIKUNTHA OTHER THAN FREE WILL AND CHOICE.
Srila Prabhupada makes it clear in the fourth canto of Srimad Bhagavatam and numerous lectures, letters and morning walks we originate from Goloka.
Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature as marginal living entities. We can misuse such independence even in Goloka or Vaikuntha with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.
This means a small minority, less than 10% of jiva-tattva nitya-siddha souls in Vaikuntha or Goloka choose to leave. For this purpose Krishna, via His Maha-Vishnu expansion, creates the mahat-tattva (material creation) for them.
The marginal living entities full potential of loving selfless devotion to Krishna and His loving devotees is based on individuality, independence and the right to choose; we never loose that right to choose, not even in Vaikuntha. Surrender to Krishna and His pure devotees do not mean to become mindless porns in Vaikuntha and 'yes' men/women to Krishna.
No, everything in Vaikuntha is based on reciprocal loving service even if it is a fact that we surrender selflessly and unconditionally. The fact is that’s how Krishna also treats us. Having free will and choice gives us the opportunity to give ourselves in our own unique way. That choice is always there even in Goloka or Vaikuntha and must be there if genuine love is to exist.
It is not that we first have to be contacted by the modes of material nature to fall down from Goloka or Vaikuntha. It’s all to do with a combination of choice and the sheer smallness of the marginal living entity.
And even then due to that smallness and choice, we only ‘think, imagine or dream’ we are fallen that we become fallen. The fact is we never fall; our nitya-siddha body never leaves Goloka
Srila Prabhupada – “ So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, "If I could be...come the master." They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he's wrongly thinking.
Vipina Purandara – “Why doesn't Krishna protect us from that desire?
Srila Prabhupada – “He's protecting. He says, "You rascal, don't desire. Surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this”.
Vipina Purandara – “Why doesn't He save me from thinking like that? ”
Srila Prabhupada – “That means you lose your independence”.
Srila Prabhupada – “That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, 'You love me, you love me, you love me.' " Is it love? "You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? ”
Srila Prabhupada – “So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?”July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C
Regarding to how a nitya siddha in Goloka can fall down to nitya baddha in the material world, Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrndavana.
We can misuse such independence even in Goloka or Vaikuntha with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.
Maya is not the cause of ones fall down from Vaikuntha, that is not possible she only exists in the mahat-tattva. The cause of ones fall down is ones own independant deires of self importance based on free will and choice.
One simply chooses to no longer serve Krishna as their nitya siddha body. As a result, they eventually forget their nitya siddha body and leave Vaikuntha and enter the mahat tattva as their nitya-baddha secondary self that is the sub-conscious non-Krishna conscious condition of the marginal living entity
When asked directly about whether the jiva was ever in the spiritual world, Srila Prabhupada mentions in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 of the Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna (in the form of a Brahmana) says to King Puranjana (in his next life, as the daughter of Kind Vidarbha) "Don't you remember me? I was your very close friend, but you gave up My Company and came to this material world".
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.52: The Brahmana inquired as follows: Who are you? Whose wife or daughter are you? Who is the man laying here? It appears you are lamenting for this dead body. Don't you recognize Me? I am your eternal friend. You may remember that many times in the past you have consulted Me.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53: The Brahmana continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.54: My dear gentle friend, both you and I are exactly like two swans. We live together in the same heart, which is just like the Mānasa Lake. Although we have been living together for many thousands of years, we are still far away from our original home.
Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.55: My dear friend, you are now My very same friend. Since you left Me, you have become more and more materialistic, and not seeing Me, you have been travelling in different forms throughout this material world, which was created by some woman.
In understanding Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 7 Chapter 1 Text 35 Purport one has to first understand that Jaya and Vijaya caused an offence to Brahmanas and as a result were given two choices to atone from their offence.
They could either take three births in the material world as Demons or they could take seven births as devotees. They chose to be in the material body as powerful demons.
Now they come from Vaikuntha under Krishna’s compassion meaning they were given the opportunity to engage in Krishna’s pastimes while in the material world as Demons, so when their offence was atoned they were immediately re-established in their eternal original svarupa in Vaikuntha.
It must be understood they new they made a mistake by offending Brahmanas; at no point did they give up Krishna as we have done.
In other parts of Srila Prabhupada’s writings, he calls their offence as a fall down, this is why in the purport of the Srimad Bhagavatam 7.1.35 Srila Prabhupada says “This very significant question would be difficult for an ordinary person to answer, but Narada Muni, being an authority, could answer it”.
Now those who are associates of the Lord of course do not leave Goloka for the material dream or fall down AS LONG AS THEY CHOOSE TO SERVE KRISHNA however, there are those, less than 10% of Krishna jiva-tattva associates in Vaikuntha and Goloka, who DO choose to come to this material world and forget Krishna, they are only interested in their own exploits and want nothing to do with Krishna.
That can include any jiva-tattva (marginal) associate of Krishnas in Goloka who no longer choose to be an associate, any jiva-tattva can leave Goloka for the material creation, but most choose not to make that mistake. The important point is THERE IS ALWAYS CHOICE.
They therefore think, dream or imagine they fall – actually no falls from Vaikuntha because their nitya-siddha body is perpetually fixed there within the eternal presence of Krishna’s pastimes.
As the CC states all marginal living entities are originally nitya-siddha and only the Vishnu-tattvas never forget their position in Krishna lila. Some come to the material creation in Krishna’s lila while others come to for fill their own selfish dreams.
As there are no killing of demons in Vaikuntha, Krishna plays this role as His Vishnu expansion in the material creation with all his nitya siddha jiva-tattvas and Vishnu-tattva associates however, there are other jiva-tattva souls who choose to leave Goloka simply because of their choice not to be with Krishna, THERE IS NO MATERIAL CAUSE FOR THEM FORGETTING GOLOKA OR VAIKUNTHA OTHER THAN FREE WILL AND CHOICE.
Srila Prabhupada makes it clear in the fourth canto of Srimad Bhagavatam and numerous lectures, letters and morning walks we originate from Goloka.
Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature as marginal living entities. We can misuse such independence even in Goloka or Vaikuntha with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.
This means a small minority, less than 10% of jiva-tattva nitya-siddha souls in Vaikuntha or Goloka choose to leave. For this purpose Krishna, via His Maha-Vishnu expansion, creates the mahat-tattva (material creation) for them.
The marginal living entities full potential of loving selfless devotion to Krishna and His loving devotees is based on individuality, independence and the right to choose; we never loose that right to choose, not even in Vaikuntha. Surrender to Krishna and His pure devotees do not mean to become mindless porns in Vaikuntha and 'yes' men/women to Krishna.
No, everything in Vaikuntha is based on reciprocal loving service even if it is a fact that we surrender selflessly and unconditionally. The fact is that’s how Krishna also treats us. Having free will and choice gives us the opportunity to give ourselves in our own unique way. That choice is always there even in Goloka or Vaikuntha and must be there if genuine love is to exist.
It is not that we first have to be contacted by the modes of material nature to fall down from Goloka or Vaikuntha. It’s all to do with a combination of choice and the sheer smallness of the marginal living entity.
And even then due to that smallness and choice, we only ‘think, imagine or dream’ we are fallen that we become fallen. The fact is we never fall; our nitya-siddha body never leaves Goloka
Srila Prabhupada – “ So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, "If I could be...come the master." They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he's wrongly thinking.
Vipina Purandara – “Why doesn't Krishna protect us from that desire?
Srila Prabhupada – “He's protecting. He says, "You rascal, don't desire. Surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this”.
Vipina Purandara – “Why doesn't He save me from thinking like that? ”
Srila Prabhupada – “That means you lose your independence”.
Srila Prabhupada – “That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, 'You love me, you love me, you love me.' " Is it love? "You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? ”
Srila Prabhupada – “So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?”July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C
Regarding to how a nitya siddha in Goloka can fall down to nitya baddha in the material world, Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrndavana.
We can misuse such independence even in Goloka or Vaikuntha with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.
Maya is not the cause of ones fall down from Vaikuntha, that is not possible she only exists in the mahat-tattva. The cause of ones fall down is ones own independant deires of self importance based on free will and choice.
One simply chooses to no longer serve Krishna as their nitya siddha body. As a result, they eventually forget their nitya siddha body and leave Vaikuntha and enter the mahat tattva as their nitya-baddha secondary self that is the sub-conscious non-Krishna conscious condition of the marginal living entity
This material creation is the spirit soul's dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu
Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls, we are all originally Krishna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by the material atmosphere, called Maya, or illusion”. And what is this illusion? The illusion is that we are all trying to be lords of material nature, while actually we are under the grip of her stringent laws. When a servant artificially tries to imitate the all-powerful master, he is said to be in illusion. Hare Krishna Album 1966
When the Mayavadis say the world is an illusion, to them nothing is real because they have no concept that Krishna is the Supreme Creator and is forever enjoying His eternal pastimes within the eternal 'presence’ of Goloka, the undeviating immortal Kingdom of God. The devotees of Krishna see that if one’s behaviour is not everlasting, then that must illusion, only because it does not include Krishna. Prabhupada constantly uses the word ‘illusion’ in his preaching to point this fact out, that which is illusion means it is temporary, decaying, fading, to the point that eventually it will appear as if it never was – that which is not - Maya.
Srila Prabhupada explains how the non-Krishna conscious rebellious dreams (nitya-baddha consciousness) are sub-consciously projected from one's marginal identity in Goloka and transferred to the ‘creation of the dreaming’ known as the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.
This secondary reality or mahat-tattva (material creation) is set up for the secondary (conditioned) extension of the marginal living entities known as the nitya-baddha condition of restricted awareness. Such restricted awareness manifests as a dreaming condition of non-Krishna conscious thoughts and desires that are housed in material bodily forms
Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life (nitya-baddha), and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long, long, long, long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period (nitya-baddha) is considered as a second”.http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
Srila Prabhupada - “By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can again become nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to nitya-baddhas again nitya-siddha. Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.107 New York, 76
Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul's dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma-Samhita describes – This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”. 4.29.83.http://vedabase.net/sb/4/29/83/en
Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.
Srila Prabhupada - “Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord”. Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction
Srila Prabhupada - “There is possibility (falling from Vaikuntha), if you do not stick to the spiritual principle, even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world? Because in the Vaikuntha or in the spiritual world, no contaminated soul can stay there. He will fall down”. Bhag.-Gita class, Honolulu: July 4, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada tells us that we have never been always conditioned as nitya-baddha because we have come from Goloka, rather, it is only our 'dreaming' non Krishna consciousness that comes to the mahat-tattva and not our nitya-siddha body due to not being able to exist within the eternal presence of Krishna Consciousness there.
The nitya-baddha consciousness therefore finds a home in subtle and gross material bodily vessels in the mahat-tattva that are temporary, our nitya-baddha conscious condition is also only temporary because ultimately and perpetually, we are all nitya-siddha in Goloka
In this way, just as the sun dissipates the darkness, when one is AGAIN fully established as their nitya-siddha authentic eternal body, the darkness or the nitya-baddha counterfeit non-Krishna consciousness will simply not exist. This is because the nitya-baddha feature of ones marginal identity can never exist in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha in the presence of Krishna and ones nitya-siddha body, darkness cannot exist where there is light.
When the Mayavadis say the world is an illusion, to them nothing is real because they have no concept that Krishna is the Supreme Creator and is forever enjoying His eternal pastimes within the eternal 'presence’ of Goloka, the undeviating immortal Kingdom of God. The devotees of Krishna see that if one’s behaviour is not everlasting, then that must illusion, only because it does not include Krishna. Prabhupada constantly uses the word ‘illusion’ in his preaching to point this fact out, that which is illusion means it is temporary, decaying, fading, to the point that eventually it will appear as if it never was – that which is not - Maya.
Srila Prabhupada explains how the non-Krishna conscious rebellious dreams (nitya-baddha consciousness) are sub-consciously projected from one's marginal identity in Goloka and transferred to the ‘creation of the dreaming’ known as the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.
This secondary reality or mahat-tattva (material creation) is set up for the secondary (conditioned) extension of the marginal living entities known as the nitya-baddha condition of restricted awareness. Such restricted awareness manifests as a dreaming condition of non-Krishna conscious thoughts and desires that are housed in material bodily forms
Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life (nitya-baddha), and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long, long, long, long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period (nitya-baddha) is considered as a second”.http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
Srila Prabhupada - “By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can again become nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to nitya-baddhas again nitya-siddha. Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.107 New York, 76
Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul's dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma-Samhita describes – This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”. 4.29.83.http://vedabase.net/sb/4/29/83/en
Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.
Srila Prabhupada - “Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord”. Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction
Srila Prabhupada - “There is possibility (falling from Vaikuntha), if you do not stick to the spiritual principle, even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world? Because in the Vaikuntha or in the spiritual world, no contaminated soul can stay there. He will fall down”. Bhag.-Gita class, Honolulu: July 4, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada tells us that we have never been always conditioned as nitya-baddha because we have come from Goloka, rather, it is only our 'dreaming' non Krishna consciousness that comes to the mahat-tattva and not our nitya-siddha body due to not being able to exist within the eternal presence of Krishna Consciousness there.
The nitya-baddha consciousness therefore finds a home in subtle and gross material bodily vessels in the mahat-tattva that are temporary, our nitya-baddha conscious condition is also only temporary because ultimately and perpetually, we are all nitya-siddha in Goloka
In this way, just as the sun dissipates the darkness, when one is AGAIN fully established as their nitya-siddha authentic eternal body, the darkness or the nitya-baddha counterfeit non-Krishna consciousness will simply not exist. This is because the nitya-baddha feature of ones marginal identity can never exist in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha in the presence of Krishna and ones nitya-siddha body, darkness cannot exist where there is light.
Who can understand the multidimensional full potential abilities of the liberated nitya-siddha souls?
When a devotee regains his/hers original Krsna Consciousness and re-establishes ‘the awareness’ of their nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka, which is never lost while dreaming as nitya-baddha in the perishable creation, does not mean that one is only restricted by one particular svarupa (body) for eternity in Krishna's pastimes..
Ones eternal body is not limited to any particular nitya-siddha body they have there.
Also there are examples of devotees participating in the pastimes of the Lord in more than one svarupa at the same time, therefore our eternal rasa can change in Goloka; even though our nitya siddha or rasa body is perpetually situated in Goloka as a two armed form in it’s originality as Srila Prabhupada confirms -
Yasomatinandana – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs". Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975
So unlike the material bodies in the mahat-tattva that are temporary decaying vessels the nitya-baddha consciousness moves around in, we ARE our body (nitya-siddha) in Goloka though, that body can transform because our eternal svarupa is interchangeable.
For example, ones svarupa can change to a four-armed form in the Vaikuntha Planets or a different form in Lord Caitanya's pastimes in the top most platform in Goloka that He sometimes brings to the material world as pastimes, although very rare.
In simple terms, one has the ability to ‘shape shift’ into any form to please Krsna Caitanya and can also be in many places in various forms at the same time.
Caitanya Caritamrita is full of such examples. Most are Vishnu tattva expansions although there are many jiva tattva’s like Naradha Muni as well. No jiva tattva in Lord Caitanya Lila is restricted only to their two-armed perpetual svarupa-nitya-siddha body
Srivasa Thakura is known as Narada Muni, he also has his svarupa manifestation in Goloka. Therefore, by the elegance of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Narada Muni is also simultaneously situated in the top most regions of Goloka where Caitanya Mahaprabhu's endless pastimes are going on.
Further more, Srila Prabhupada has explained that Narada Muni enters the material world often disguised in different bodily vessels to preach Krishna Consciousness.
Who can understand the multidimensional full potential abilities of the liberated nitya-siddha souls?
Ones eternal body is not limited to any particular nitya-siddha body they have there.
Also there are examples of devotees participating in the pastimes of the Lord in more than one svarupa at the same time, therefore our eternal rasa can change in Goloka; even though our nitya siddha or rasa body is perpetually situated in Goloka as a two armed form in it’s originality as Srila Prabhupada confirms -
Yasomatinandana – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs". Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975
So unlike the material bodies in the mahat-tattva that are temporary decaying vessels the nitya-baddha consciousness moves around in, we ARE our body (nitya-siddha) in Goloka though, that body can transform because our eternal svarupa is interchangeable.
For example, ones svarupa can change to a four-armed form in the Vaikuntha Planets or a different form in Lord Caitanya's pastimes in the top most platform in Goloka that He sometimes brings to the material world as pastimes, although very rare.
In simple terms, one has the ability to ‘shape shift’ into any form to please Krsna Caitanya and can also be in many places in various forms at the same time.
Caitanya Caritamrita is full of such examples. Most are Vishnu tattva expansions although there are many jiva tattva’s like Naradha Muni as well. No jiva tattva in Lord Caitanya Lila is restricted only to their two-armed perpetual svarupa-nitya-siddha body
Srivasa Thakura is known as Narada Muni, he also has his svarupa manifestation in Goloka. Therefore, by the elegance of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Narada Muni is also simultaneously situated in the top most regions of Goloka where Caitanya Mahaprabhu's endless pastimes are going on.
Further more, Srila Prabhupada has explained that Narada Muni enters the material world often disguised in different bodily vessels to preach Krishna Consciousness.
Who can understand the multidimensional full potential abilities of the liberated nitya-siddha souls?
Perhaps John Lennon with his I am you, you are me LSD experience and Richard Feynman were thinking the same impersonal theory
I would like to understand how the one electron theory being the entire universe works, if anyone in quantum science can help me, how does one electron become two in different time zones of past, present and future and expands over trillions of years to become the expanding universe? This idea won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1965 by Richard P. Feynman
Richard Feynman and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Prize in 1965 for explaining all particles can travel backward in time (This interpretation is still the explanation currently accepted today.)
Feynman then speculated that perhaps the entire universe consisted of just one electron, zigzagging back and forth in time. Imagine that out of the chaos of the original big bang only a single electron was created. Trillions of years later, this single electron would eventually encounter the cataclysm of annihilation, where it would make a U-turn and go backward in time, releasing a gamma ray in the process.
Then it would go back to the original big bang, and then perform another U-turn. The electron would then make repeated zigzag journeys back and forth, from the big bang to annihilation.
Our universe in the twenty-first century is just a time slice of this electron's journey, in which we see trillions of electrons and anti-electrons, that is, the visible universe.
As strange as this theory may appear, it explains a curious fact from the quantum theory: why all electrons are the same. Maybe the reason is that the entire universe consists of the same electron, just bouncing back and forth in time.
Feynman's notion about one single electron, and antimatter particles travelling backwards in time grew into his theory of quantum electrodynamics, which has been experimentally verified to one part in 10 billion, making it one of the most accurate theories of all time.
Could our universe really have only one electron, whizzing back and forth within timelessness to create the trillions of electrons we see at any particular "now" for our universe? Could consciousness be the same, only one consciousness travelling back and forth across time, experiencing the endless complexity of our universe from a unique perspective each time, but ultimately seeing itself complete the same journey over and over again?
Perhaps John Lennon with his I am you, you are me LSD experience and Richard Feynman were thinking about ideas that were more similar than either of them could ever have realized.
Einstein speculated, that the electron is indeed the leading player in the universe and is intimately involved with light, matter, the laws of Nature, and our lives.
The path to the answer, is simple: Reject the discrete material electron and replace it with a wave-structured electron as proposed by Schroedinger and Clifford - using a scalar-wave equation. The math and the proofs are straight-forward because scalar waves are the only possible choice.
Only two principles underlie all results. Despite this simplicity the WSM explains the origin of the natural laws, new applications in micro-physics and chips, understanding light energy exchange and lasers, plus the answers to most current paradoxes of physics. It is breathtaking to find so many results together – simply by answering Einstein’s question "What is the Electron". (Milo Wolff, Geoff Haselhurst)
The Vedas tell us there are two different universes, one called the Vaikunthas (anti-matter) where everything is alive and is never created and exists perpetually in what is known as the eternal presence of time or service to Krsna that has no past or future, just the eternal ‘NOW’ that is without decay, beginning or end and is the original home of all living entities.
The other is the material universe (matter) that we are presently trapped in by these material bodies or vessels that is created and experiences annulation and exists in the realm of past, present and future.
The material universes have two basic realities, the subtle ethereal material universe and the gross biological. The gross matter we see only takes up .1% of the material creation, which is all the planets, Moons, Suns, within all the Solar Systems and galaxies we perceive with our biological eyes and its extensions like the Hubble Telescope.
The other 99.9% of the material universe is made up of subtle matter that cannot be perceived with gross material means like Telescopes or even Electron microscopes, it is only realized by pious activities and is where the heavenly material subtle worlds exist that are often mistaken as Vaikuntha (anti-material endless eternally youthful universes) by Buddhists, Christians and Muslims.
It is important to understand that all living entities originally come from Goloka. What makes things confusing to several is that some souls, who are actually trapped in their baddha-jiva lower self state and completely forgetful of their nitya-siddha full potential body in Goloka, can stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva as their baddha-jiva inferior self for what seems an almost eternity. This means many souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation.
The baddha-jiva sub-consciousness projection that originates as a dream condition or echo off the marginal living entities nitya-siddha body in Goloka, is formless state of consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules, such baddha-jiva souls acquire their external material subtle and gross biological forms or bodily containers from Maha-Vishnu. With this explanation, the following comment by Srila Prabhupada that is incorrectly understood by many is now made very clear.
Srila Prabhupada – “In His form as Karaṇodakasayi Viṣṇu the Lord impregnates material nature by His glance. The transcendental molecules of that glance are particles of spirit, or spiritual atoms, which appear in different species of life according to the seeds of their individual karma from the previous cosmic manifestation. And the Lord Himself, by His partial representation, creates a body of innumerable universes and again enters each of those universes as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. His coming in contact with māyā is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā by a comparison between air and the sky. The sky enters everything material, yet it is far away from us”. Caitanya Caritamrta Ādi 5.69
Richard Feynman and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Prize in 1965 for explaining all particles can travel backward in time (This interpretation is still the explanation currently accepted today.)
Feynman then speculated that perhaps the entire universe consisted of just one electron, zigzagging back and forth in time. Imagine that out of the chaos of the original big bang only a single electron was created. Trillions of years later, this single electron would eventually encounter the cataclysm of annihilation, where it would make a U-turn and go backward in time, releasing a gamma ray in the process.
Then it would go back to the original big bang, and then perform another U-turn. The electron would then make repeated zigzag journeys back and forth, from the big bang to annihilation.
Our universe in the twenty-first century is just a time slice of this electron's journey, in which we see trillions of electrons and anti-electrons, that is, the visible universe.
As strange as this theory may appear, it explains a curious fact from the quantum theory: why all electrons are the same. Maybe the reason is that the entire universe consists of the same electron, just bouncing back and forth in time.
Feynman's notion about one single electron, and antimatter particles travelling backwards in time grew into his theory of quantum electrodynamics, which has been experimentally verified to one part in 10 billion, making it one of the most accurate theories of all time.
Could our universe really have only one electron, whizzing back and forth within timelessness to create the trillions of electrons we see at any particular "now" for our universe? Could consciousness be the same, only one consciousness travelling back and forth across time, experiencing the endless complexity of our universe from a unique perspective each time, but ultimately seeing itself complete the same journey over and over again?
Perhaps John Lennon with his I am you, you are me LSD experience and Richard Feynman were thinking about ideas that were more similar than either of them could ever have realized.
Einstein speculated, that the electron is indeed the leading player in the universe and is intimately involved with light, matter, the laws of Nature, and our lives.
The path to the answer, is simple: Reject the discrete material electron and replace it with a wave-structured electron as proposed by Schroedinger and Clifford - using a scalar-wave equation. The math and the proofs are straight-forward because scalar waves are the only possible choice.
Only two principles underlie all results. Despite this simplicity the WSM explains the origin of the natural laws, new applications in micro-physics and chips, understanding light energy exchange and lasers, plus the answers to most current paradoxes of physics. It is breathtaking to find so many results together – simply by answering Einstein’s question "What is the Electron". (Milo Wolff, Geoff Haselhurst)
The Vedas tell us there are two different universes, one called the Vaikunthas (anti-matter) where everything is alive and is never created and exists perpetually in what is known as the eternal presence of time or service to Krsna that has no past or future, just the eternal ‘NOW’ that is without decay, beginning or end and is the original home of all living entities.
The other is the material universe (matter) that we are presently trapped in by these material bodies or vessels that is created and experiences annulation and exists in the realm of past, present and future.
The material universes have two basic realities, the subtle ethereal material universe and the gross biological. The gross matter we see only takes up .1% of the material creation, which is all the planets, Moons, Suns, within all the Solar Systems and galaxies we perceive with our biological eyes and its extensions like the Hubble Telescope.
The other 99.9% of the material universe is made up of subtle matter that cannot be perceived with gross material means like Telescopes or even Electron microscopes, it is only realized by pious activities and is where the heavenly material subtle worlds exist that are often mistaken as Vaikuntha (anti-material endless eternally youthful universes) by Buddhists, Christians and Muslims.
It is important to understand that all living entities originally come from Goloka. What makes things confusing to several is that some souls, who are actually trapped in their baddha-jiva lower self state and completely forgetful of their nitya-siddha full potential body in Goloka, can stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva as their baddha-jiva inferior self for what seems an almost eternity. This means many souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation.
The baddha-jiva sub-consciousness projection that originates as a dream condition or echo off the marginal living entities nitya-siddha body in Goloka, is formless state of consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules, such baddha-jiva souls acquire their external material subtle and gross biological forms or bodily containers from Maha-Vishnu. With this explanation, the following comment by Srila Prabhupada that is incorrectly understood by many is now made very clear.
Srila Prabhupada – “In His form as Karaṇodakasayi Viṣṇu the Lord impregnates material nature by His glance. The transcendental molecules of that glance are particles of spirit, or spiritual atoms, which appear in different species of life according to the seeds of their individual karma from the previous cosmic manifestation. And the Lord Himself, by His partial representation, creates a body of innumerable universes and again enters each of those universes as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. His coming in contact with māyā is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā by a comparison between air and the sky. The sky enters everything material, yet it is far away from us”. Caitanya Caritamrta Ādi 5.69
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes, the material world and all our relationships in it are a dream”.
The following conversation is between His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and a university student that took place in Los Angeles, in January of 1974.
Student. – “In your books you say this world is like a dream”.
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes. It is a dream”.
Student – “How is it a dream?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “For example, last night you had some dream, but now it has no value. It is gone. And again, tonight when you sleep, you’ll forget all these things and dream. You won’t remember, when you are dreaming tonight, “I’ve got my house; I’ve got my wife.” You’ll forget it all. So all of this is a dream”.
Student. – “Is it true, or is it not true?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “How could it be true? At night you forgot it. Do you remember when you sleep that you’ve got your wife and you’re sleeping on a bed? When you have gone some three thousand miles away and seen something totally different in your dream, do you remember that you’ve got a place to reside in?”
Student – “No”.
Srila Prabhupada – “So this is a dream. Tonight. What you are seeing now will become only a dream, just as what you know it was only a dream. So both are dreams. You are simply a visitor, that’s all. You are seeing this dream and that dream. You, the spirit soul, are factual. But your material body and the material surroundings you are seeing –this is dream”.
Student. – “But I have the impression that this experience is true and my dream is not true. What is the difference?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “No. This experience is all untrue! How could it be true? If it were true, how could you forget it at night? How could you forget it, if it were true? At night do you remember all this?”
Student – “No. I don’t remember.”
Srila Prabhupada – “Then-how could it be true? Just as you don’t remember the dream you saw last night and so you call it a “dream,” similarly this experience-because you forget it at night-this is also a dream….”
Student – “I have the impress”
Srila Prabhupada. – “This is a day dream; that is a night dream. That’s all. When you dream at night, then you perceive that as being real. Yes. You think that is real. It is a dream, but you are crying, “There is a tiger! Tiger! Tiger!” Where is the tiger? But you are seeing it as a fact-a tiger. “I’m being killed by a tiger.” But where is the tiger? …Or you dream you are embracing some beautiful girl. Where is that beautiful girl? But actually it is happening”.
Student – “It is happening”?
Srila Prabhupada – “In one sense it is happening, because there is discharge of semen. Nocturnal emission. But where is that girl? Is it not a dream? But similarly, this so-call real-life experience is also a dream".
You are getting the impression of factuality, but it is a dream. Therefore it is called maya-sukhaya, illusory happiness. Your nighttime happiness and your day time are the same thing. At night you are dreaming you are embracing a nice beautiful girl, and there is no such thing.
Similalrly, in the daytime also, whatever “advancement” you are making-this also like that. Maya-sukhaya: You are dreaming, “This process will make happy” or “That process is only a dream. You are taking this daydream as reality because the duration is long.
At night when you dream, the duration is just half an hour. But this daydream lasts for twelve-hour dream, and that is half-hour dream-but actually both of them are dreams. Because one is twelve-hour dream, you are accepting it as real. This is call illusion”.
Student – “Illusion”.
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes…. You are making a distinction between and animal and yourself, but you are forgetting that just as the animal will die, you will also die. So where is your advancement? Will you remain forever? You will also die. So where is your advancement over an animal?
That is stated in the Vedic literatures. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam-cal samanam etat pasubhir naranam this business –eating, sleeping, sex life, and defending-this is also the animal’s business, and you are doing the same.
So how are you distinct from an animal? You will die; the animal will die.
But if you say, “I will die after one hundred years, and this ant will die after one hour,” that does mean that you are in reality. It is a question of time, Or take this huge universe-it will all be destroyed.
As your body will be destroyed, this universe will also be destroyed. Annihilation. Dissolution. Nature’s way-the whole thing will be dissolved.
Therefore, it is a dream. It is a long duration of dream, that’s all. Nothing else. But the advantage of having this human body is that in this dream, you can realize the reality-God.
That is the advantage. So if you don’t take advantage of this dream, then you are missing everything”.
Student. – “So I’m half-asleep?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes, that is the situation. Therefore, the Vedic literatures say, uttistha: “Get up! Get up! Get up!” Jagrata: Become awakened!” Prapya varan nibodhata: “Now you have got the opportunity: utilize it.” Tamasi ma jyotir gama:
“Don’t stay in darkness; come to the light.” These are Vedic injunctions. And we are teaching the same thing, “Reality is here-Krsna. Don’t remain in this dark place. Come to the higher consciousness”. Los Angeles, in January of 1974.
Srila Prabhupada - “As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains.
Now he is in his original position. Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there. Actually he has not fallen”. http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul's dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma-Samhita describes –
“This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”..29.83
.http://vedabase.net/sb/4/29/83/en
Srila Prabhupada - “There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha” New York lecture on Caitanya-Caritamrta, July 13, 1976
Srila Prabhupada – “Eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha)? We cannot be eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha), because we are part and parcel of Krishna. Our natural position is ever liberated, eternally liberated (nitya-siddha). But because we wanted to imitate Krishna, we wanted to become Krishna, as the Mayavadis want to do, therefore in the spiritual world, Krishna is the only enjoyer. (Bhagavad Gita as it is lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Student. – “In your books you say this world is like a dream”.
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes. It is a dream”.
Student – “How is it a dream?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “For example, last night you had some dream, but now it has no value. It is gone. And again, tonight when you sleep, you’ll forget all these things and dream. You won’t remember, when you are dreaming tonight, “I’ve got my house; I’ve got my wife.” You’ll forget it all. So all of this is a dream”.
Student. – “Is it true, or is it not true?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “How could it be true? At night you forgot it. Do you remember when you sleep that you’ve got your wife and you’re sleeping on a bed? When you have gone some three thousand miles away and seen something totally different in your dream, do you remember that you’ve got a place to reside in?”
Student – “No”.
Srila Prabhupada – “So this is a dream. Tonight. What you are seeing now will become only a dream, just as what you know it was only a dream. So both are dreams. You are simply a visitor, that’s all. You are seeing this dream and that dream. You, the spirit soul, are factual. But your material body and the material surroundings you are seeing –this is dream”.
Student. – “But I have the impression that this experience is true and my dream is not true. What is the difference?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “No. This experience is all untrue! How could it be true? If it were true, how could you forget it at night? How could you forget it, if it were true? At night do you remember all this?”
Student – “No. I don’t remember.”
Srila Prabhupada – “Then-how could it be true? Just as you don’t remember the dream you saw last night and so you call it a “dream,” similarly this experience-because you forget it at night-this is also a dream….”
Student – “I have the impress”
Srila Prabhupada. – “This is a day dream; that is a night dream. That’s all. When you dream at night, then you perceive that as being real. Yes. You think that is real. It is a dream, but you are crying, “There is a tiger! Tiger! Tiger!” Where is the tiger? But you are seeing it as a fact-a tiger. “I’m being killed by a tiger.” But where is the tiger? …Or you dream you are embracing some beautiful girl. Where is that beautiful girl? But actually it is happening”.
Student – “It is happening”?
Srila Prabhupada – “In one sense it is happening, because there is discharge of semen. Nocturnal emission. But where is that girl? Is it not a dream? But similarly, this so-call real-life experience is also a dream".
You are getting the impression of factuality, but it is a dream. Therefore it is called maya-sukhaya, illusory happiness. Your nighttime happiness and your day time are the same thing. At night you are dreaming you are embracing a nice beautiful girl, and there is no such thing.
Similalrly, in the daytime also, whatever “advancement” you are making-this also like that. Maya-sukhaya: You are dreaming, “This process will make happy” or “That process is only a dream. You are taking this daydream as reality because the duration is long.
At night when you dream, the duration is just half an hour. But this daydream lasts for twelve-hour dream, and that is half-hour dream-but actually both of them are dreams. Because one is twelve-hour dream, you are accepting it as real. This is call illusion”.
Student – “Illusion”.
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes…. You are making a distinction between and animal and yourself, but you are forgetting that just as the animal will die, you will also die. So where is your advancement? Will you remain forever? You will also die. So where is your advancement over an animal?
That is stated in the Vedic literatures. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam-cal samanam etat pasubhir naranam this business –eating, sleeping, sex life, and defending-this is also the animal’s business, and you are doing the same.
So how are you distinct from an animal? You will die; the animal will die.
But if you say, “I will die after one hundred years, and this ant will die after one hour,” that does mean that you are in reality. It is a question of time, Or take this huge universe-it will all be destroyed.
As your body will be destroyed, this universe will also be destroyed. Annihilation. Dissolution. Nature’s way-the whole thing will be dissolved.
Therefore, it is a dream. It is a long duration of dream, that’s all. Nothing else. But the advantage of having this human body is that in this dream, you can realize the reality-God.
That is the advantage. So if you don’t take advantage of this dream, then you are missing everything”.
Student. – “So I’m half-asleep?”
Srila Prabhupada. – “Yes, that is the situation. Therefore, the Vedic literatures say, uttistha: “Get up! Get up! Get up!” Jagrata: Become awakened!” Prapya varan nibodhata: “Now you have got the opportunity: utilize it.” Tamasi ma jyotir gama:
“Don’t stay in darkness; come to the light.” These are Vedic injunctions. And we are teaching the same thing, “Reality is here-Krsna. Don’t remain in this dark place. Come to the higher consciousness”. Los Angeles, in January of 1974.
Srila Prabhupada - “As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains.
Now he is in his original position. Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there. Actually he has not fallen”. http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=170123
Srila Prabhupada – “This material creation is the spirit soul's dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma-Samhita describes –
“This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”..29.83
.http://vedabase.net/sb/4/29/83/en
Srila Prabhupada - “There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha” New York lecture on Caitanya-Caritamrta, July 13, 1976
Srila Prabhupada – “Eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha)? We cannot be eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha), because we are part and parcel of Krishna. Our natural position is ever liberated, eternally liberated (nitya-siddha). But because we wanted to imitate Krishna, we wanted to become Krishna, as the Mayavadis want to do, therefore in the spiritual world, Krishna is the only enjoyer. (Bhagavad Gita as it is lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Darkness cannot be left over in the presents of light because light dissipates all darkness
In other words while there is light (nitya-siddha), darkness (nitya-baddha) does not exist similarly, when one is situated as their full potential Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa effulgent body, the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness darkness does not exist. Therefore ones svarupa body is always Krishna Conscious and is always absorbed in serving Krishna and not even aware that their inferior nitya-baddha consciousness even exists because factually it does not exist if one always uses their free-will and chooses to remain fully Krishna conscious.
When ones nitya-baddha sub-consciousness gradually dissipates on its journey back to one regaining there awareness of their nitya-siddha bodily origins, the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness begins to fad as ones layers of self interested dreams, selfish desires and thoughts in the mahat-tattva dissolve due to Krishna Consciousness. Remember the nitya-baddha-jiva is a bodiless sub-consciousness in the mahat-tattva and only able to experience desires through the material bodies provided by Maha-Vishnu.
When the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness has been fully dissipated by Krishna Consciousness, that instance coincides with ones entrance (awareness) into Goloka or Vaikuntha and the simultaneous event where one becomes fully conscious of their genuine nitya-siddha-svarupa rasa bodily personality and identity to the point they are not concerned or even possibly do not remember that they had been in a dreaming condition in the first place.
This is due to the perpetual concept of the ‘eternal presence of Krishna consciousness’ that is eternally devoid of past and future in Goloka-Vrndavana and Vaikuntha due to the marginal living entity being 110% absorbed in Krishna katha, beyond material time and space that is also instinctive to the existence of the phenomenon of past, present and future that can only exist in the mahat-tattva.
When ones nitya-baddha sub-consciousness gradually dissipates on its journey back to one regaining there awareness of their nitya-siddha bodily origins, the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness begins to fad as ones layers of self interested dreams, selfish desires and thoughts in the mahat-tattva dissolve due to Krishna Consciousness. Remember the nitya-baddha-jiva is a bodiless sub-consciousness in the mahat-tattva and only able to experience desires through the material bodies provided by Maha-Vishnu.
When the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness has been fully dissipated by Krishna Consciousness, that instance coincides with ones entrance (awareness) into Goloka or Vaikuntha and the simultaneous event where one becomes fully conscious of their genuine nitya-siddha-svarupa rasa bodily personality and identity to the point they are not concerned or even possibly do not remember that they had been in a dreaming condition in the first place.
This is due to the perpetual concept of the ‘eternal presence of Krishna consciousness’ that is eternally devoid of past and future in Goloka-Vrndavana and Vaikuntha due to the marginal living entity being 110% absorbed in Krishna katha, beyond material time and space that is also instinctive to the existence of the phenomenon of past, present and future that can only exist in the mahat-tattva.
Is the Marginal Living Entity Exclusively from only Goloka or Vaikuntha?
Is the Marginal Living Entity Exclusively from only Goloka or Vaikuntha?
BY: GAURAGOPALA DASA
Oct 04, USA (SUN) — Is the marginal living entity exclusively from only Goloka or Vaikuntha? And if so, how does one fall down from Goloka to the ‘dreaming’ (material) creation of Maha-Vishnu?
Like the roots of a banyan tree, the embodied nitya-baddha soul’s karma weaves and interweaves throughout the temporary material universe or mahat-tattva confusing and inducing the embodied baddha-jiva to the conviction they are their temporary ethereal and biological bodily vessels when factually the entire material creation is nothing other than the imaginations and dreams of the conditioned soul (baddha-jiva) facilitated by the dreaming Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
This quote is an important point when understanding what a ‘dream’ is on the highest platform -
Srila Prabhupada – “The Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
This quote makes it very clear that we cannot compare our mundane biological dreams with the transcendental dreams of Maha-Vishnu or even the marginal living entities <SPAN>secondary inferior unembodied nitya-baddha sub-conscious dream state.
Only when the nitya-baddha dreaming state becomes further contained (They are first contained in an ethereal body within the mahat-tattva) in a biological vessel within the mahat-tattva does its dreams become true illusion and almost meaningless.
However, on the higher material ethereal heavenly worlds where the marginal living entity in their secondary nitya-baddha sub-conscious state is contained in an ethereal body, all thoughts, dreams and imaginations there are on the level of actual reality of the mahat-tattva yet temporary.
Therefore on the heavenly planets of the mahat-tattva and even its Satya-yuga’s on the middle planetary systems like our earth planet, there is also no difference between ‘thoughts’ and ‘actions’.
Only at the end of the Dwarpa-yuga and the entire Kali-yuga does ones thoughts, imaginings and dreams within the biological gross body do not materialize and create karma.
In this way those trapped in the Kali-yuga have dreams and thoughts that ARE dreams or illusion (fantasy) and are not to be confused with the spirit souls dreams or the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. This is an important point because so many are comparing their biological dreams of fantasy with their nitya-baddha dreams of temporary reality.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
Srila Prabhupada – “After being in contact with the material modes of nature, the living entity develops the subtle and gross bodies. When the living entity is fortunate enough to associate with Sri Narada Mahamuni or his servants, he is liberated from this ‘dreamland’ of material creation and the bodily conception of life”. Srimad Bhagavatam 4/29/83/
Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a ‘dream’. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.2.
Srila Prabhupada – “This material world is a product of the mahat-tattva, which is a state of the Lord's dreaming condition in His yoga-nidra mystic slumber in the Causal Ocean, and yet the whole creation appears to be a factual presentation of His creation. This means that the Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations. He can therefore bring everything under His transcendental control, and thus whenever and wherever He does appear, He does so in His fullness”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
We were originally ‘aware’ of ‘always’ being with Krsna, (nitya-siddha) but we chose to forget that fact and become ‘unaware’ of our perpetual nitya-siddha body and service to Krishna because we made the choice to not service Krishna which was the beginning of our fall down.
In that state of forgetfulness we think or dream we have fallen (As nitya-baddha), but actually we are not fallen. We simply have to wake up and remember who we really are, and then we will be in our original position
The dream condition and our dream identity (nitya-baddha conscious state) will then disappear and we will find ourselves in our natural position as nitya-siddha, just like a person who is dreaming wakes up on his own bed. Actually, he is always on his own bed, even in the dream. Similarly, we are always in Goloka even when we ‘dream’ or ‘think’ we are in the material creation.
In this way, Srila Prabhupada gives us the way to understand how we can find ourselves separated from Krsna without really “falling” from Vaikuntha even though it appears we have fallen due to forgetting who we really are. Srila Prabhupada in this way explains in his lectures how the living entities can fall down from their eternal relationship with Krsna without really falling down, this Book how this paradox comes about.
Is the jiva soul always called marginal energy?
Srila Prabhupada - “The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krishna’s marginal energy.” - Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968
Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…(In Vaikuntha) so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, then that is material”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with (This biological body or vessel and the material creation). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - “Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position. Bhagavad-Gita as it is, Introduction.
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". Germany, June 22, 1974
The jiva-soul is always marginal energy wether devotionally active in Goloka-Vrndavana, in Vaikuntha, or active in restricted vessels within the material creation, dormant in the Body of Maha-Vishnu or further inactive in the Vraja River and the Impersonal Brahmajyoti that are ALL occupied by nitya-baddha souls.
It must be clearly understood that ONLY the lower sub-conscious projected baddha-jiva subordinate self comes to these places they had previously have fallen too on possibly many occasions, no jiva-souls originate from the Body of Maha-Vishnu, the material creation, the Vraja River or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna album)
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati - “It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature” Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.
Srila Prabhupada – “Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord”. Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction
Srila Prabhupada – “Therefore the Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions in eternal association with the Lord.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport
Srila Prabhupada – “In his original state, there is no doubt of enjoyment; therefore, that is his real state.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport.
Srila Prabhupada – “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Originally the jiva soul was engaged with Krishna in an original loving selfless relationship as nitya-siddha from which he has fallen however, the fall down was not a physical fall down as their nitya-siddha body but rather was a ‘sub-conscious’ fall down from the ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body which is called the nitya-baddha-jiva
Srila Prabhupada - "We are all originally situated on the platform of Krishna consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of Krishna." - Letter of November 17, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - "He is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet. He is fallen in this material world, and he is again trying to make progress." Srimad Bhagavatam lecture of June 15, 1972
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world . . . There is possibility . . . even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down--what to speak of this material world." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on July 4, 1974
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . we have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
There is always a perpetual personal association with Krishna in the spiritual sky as nitya-siddha previous to being within the body of Maha-Vishnu (That is only temporarily possible as the secondary nitya-baddha ‘dream’ state). Also the idea the jiva soul originates from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Vraja River is also nonsense.
The origin of the jiva from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti is a myth and the origin of the jiva from Maha-Vishnu is another myth.
Srila Prabhupada - "Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration . . . After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls down from Brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna." – Letter to Madhudvisa Swami and Australian devotees 1972
Srila Prabhupada - "We have come from the spiritual world into this material world. We have forgotten our Father. So we have to revive this relationship with our Father . . . God or Krishna." - Lecture on October 7, 1975
Actually we are all pure devotees eternal associates of Krishna but we have forgotten that long, long, long, long, long ago. We have foolishly allowed ourselves to be covered, due to free will and choice, by the cloud of selfish desires, thoughts and dreams that blocks out our memory of who we really are. Such desires place us in dream vessels within the mahat-tattva dream creation of Maha Vishnu.
We just have to comprehend what eternal means. It means that once you are there (or better said; here), in the authentic ‘imperishable’ present, you were always there and will always be there even if you ‘dream’ you are not there. That is the meaning of beginningless, endless or eternal
BY: GAURAGOPALA DASA
Oct 04, USA (SUN) — Is the marginal living entity exclusively from only Goloka or Vaikuntha? And if so, how does one fall down from Goloka to the ‘dreaming’ (material) creation of Maha-Vishnu?
Like the roots of a banyan tree, the embodied nitya-baddha soul’s karma weaves and interweaves throughout the temporary material universe or mahat-tattva confusing and inducing the embodied baddha-jiva to the conviction they are their temporary ethereal and biological bodily vessels when factually the entire material creation is nothing other than the imaginations and dreams of the conditioned soul (baddha-jiva) facilitated by the dreaming Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
This quote is an important point when understanding what a ‘dream’ is on the highest platform -
Srila Prabhupada – “The Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
This quote makes it very clear that we cannot compare our mundane biological dreams with the transcendental dreams of Maha-Vishnu or even the marginal living entities <SPAN>secondary inferior unembodied nitya-baddha sub-conscious dream state.
Only when the nitya-baddha dreaming state becomes further contained (They are first contained in an ethereal body within the mahat-tattva) in a biological vessel within the mahat-tattva does its dreams become true illusion and almost meaningless.
However, on the higher material ethereal heavenly worlds where the marginal living entity in their secondary nitya-baddha sub-conscious state is contained in an ethereal body, all thoughts, dreams and imaginations there are on the level of actual reality of the mahat-tattva yet temporary.
Therefore on the heavenly planets of the mahat-tattva and even its Satya-yuga’s on the middle planetary systems like our earth planet, there is also no difference between ‘thoughts’ and ‘actions’.
Only at the end of the Dwarpa-yuga and the entire Kali-yuga does ones thoughts, imaginings and dreams within the biological gross body do not materialize and create karma.
In this way those trapped in the Kali-yuga have dreams and thoughts that ARE dreams or illusion (fantasy) and are not to be confused with the spirit souls dreams or the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. This is an important point because so many are comparing their biological dreams of fantasy with their nitya-baddha dreams of temporary reality.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur - “This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.83.
Srila Prabhupada – “After being in contact with the material modes of nature, the living entity develops the subtle and gross bodies. When the living entity is fortunate enough to associate with Sri Narada Mahamuni or his servants, he is liberated from this ‘dreamland’ of material creation and the bodily conception of life”. Srimad Bhagavatam 4/29/83/
Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a ‘dream’. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” Srimad Bhagavatam. 4.29.2.
Srila Prabhupada – “This material world is a product of the mahat-tattva, which is a state of the Lord's dreaming condition in His yoga-nidra mystic slumber in the Causal Ocean, and yet the whole creation appears to be a factual presentation of His creation. This means that the Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations. He can therefore bring everything under His transcendental control, and thus whenever and wherever He does appear, He does so in His fullness”. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
We were originally ‘aware’ of ‘always’ being with Krsna, (nitya-siddha) but we chose to forget that fact and become ‘unaware’ of our perpetual nitya-siddha body and service to Krishna because we made the choice to not service Krishna which was the beginning of our fall down.
In that state of forgetfulness we think or dream we have fallen (As nitya-baddha), but actually we are not fallen. We simply have to wake up and remember who we really are, and then we will be in our original position
The dream condition and our dream identity (nitya-baddha conscious state) will then disappear and we will find ourselves in our natural position as nitya-siddha, just like a person who is dreaming wakes up on his own bed. Actually, he is always on his own bed, even in the dream. Similarly, we are always in Goloka even when we ‘dream’ or ‘think’ we are in the material creation.
In this way, Srila Prabhupada gives us the way to understand how we can find ourselves separated from Krsna without really “falling” from Vaikuntha even though it appears we have fallen due to forgetting who we really are. Srila Prabhupada in this way explains in his lectures how the living entities can fall down from their eternal relationship with Krsna without really falling down, this Book how this paradox comes about.
Is the jiva soul always called marginal energy?
Srila Prabhupada - “The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krishna’s marginal energy.” - Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968
Srila Prabhupada - "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…(In Vaikuntha) so actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion, then that is material”.
Srila Prabhupada – “Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with (This biological body or vessel and the material creation). I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971
Srila Prabhupada - “Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position. Bhagavad-Gita as it is, Introduction.
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krishna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". Germany, June 22, 1974
The jiva-soul is always marginal energy wether devotionally active in Goloka-Vrndavana, in Vaikuntha, or active in restricted vessels within the material creation, dormant in the Body of Maha-Vishnu or further inactive in the Vraja River and the Impersonal Brahmajyoti that are ALL occupied by nitya-baddha souls.
It must be clearly understood that ONLY the lower sub-conscious projected baddha-jiva subordinate self comes to these places they had previously have fallen too on possibly many occasions, no jiva-souls originate from the Body of Maha-Vishnu, the material creation, the Vraja River or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna album)
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati - “It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature” Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.
Srila Prabhupada – “Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord”. Bhagavad-Gita, Introduction
Srila Prabhupada – “Therefore the Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions in eternal association with the Lord.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport
Srila Prabhupada – “In his original state, there is no doubt of enjoyment; therefore, that is his real state.” Bhagavad-gita, 13.21, purport.
Srila Prabhupada – “Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)” Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Originally the jiva soul was engaged with Krishna in an original loving selfless relationship as nitya-siddha from which he has fallen however, the fall down was not a physical fall down as their nitya-siddha body but rather was a ‘sub-conscious’ fall down from the ‘awareness’ of their nitya-siddha body which is called the nitya-baddha-jiva
Srila Prabhupada - "We are all originally situated on the platform of Krishna consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of Krishna." - Letter of November 17, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - "He is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet. He is fallen in this material world, and he is again trying to make progress." Srimad Bhagavatam lecture of June 15, 1972
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world . . . There is possibility . . . even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down--what to speak of this material world." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on July 4, 1974
Srila Prabhupada - " . . . we have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973
There is always a perpetual personal association with Krishna in the spiritual sky as nitya-siddha previous to being within the body of Maha-Vishnu (That is only temporarily possible as the secondary nitya-baddha ‘dream’ state). Also the idea the jiva soul originates from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Vraja River is also nonsense.
The origin of the jiva from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti is a myth and the origin of the jiva from Maha-Vishnu is another myth.
Srila Prabhupada - "Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration . . . After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls down from Brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna." – Letter to Madhudvisa Swami and Australian devotees 1972
Srila Prabhupada - "We have come from the spiritual world into this material world. We have forgotten our Father. So we have to revive this relationship with our Father . . . God or Krishna." - Lecture on October 7, 1975
Actually we are all pure devotees eternal associates of Krishna but we have forgotten that long, long, long, long, long ago. We have foolishly allowed ourselves to be covered, due to free will and choice, by the cloud of selfish desires, thoughts and dreams that blocks out our memory of who we really are. Such desires place us in dream vessels within the mahat-tattva dream creation of Maha Vishnu.
We just have to comprehend what eternal means. It means that once you are there (or better said; here), in the authentic ‘imperishable’ present, you were always there and will always be there even if you ‘dream’ you are not there. That is the meaning of beginningless, endless or eternal
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)