This is because there is neither birth or death for the eternal individual jiva-souls as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same." (BG, Ch 2 text 24)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG, Ch 2 text 12)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change." (BG, Ch 2 text 13)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
The eternal original spiritual bodily form the individual jiva-soul (marginal living entity) is a two armed spiritual bodily form like Krsna's Form however, the individual jiva-souls can voluntarily change their form in unlimited ways over their eternal existence.
Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
From the infinite original form of the individual jiva-soul, all other forms are voluntary and possible, such as the four armed form on the Vaikuntha planets similar to Lord Visnu's Body.
Also, being an "inactive" spark in the impersonal Brahmajyoti is an already fallen condition of the individual jiva-souls.
The jiva-soul's original feature and full potential is an eternal bodily form like Krsna's two armed Form, because man is made in the image of God.
All individual jiva-souls eternally are a spiritual bodily form, only while the individual jiva-souls are fallen, do they artificially appear as a formless impersonal individual unit or bodiless spark in Krsna's effulgence (the impersonal brahmajyoti)
Revatīnandana dasa - "Srila Prabhupāda you very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen, so does that mean the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm an individual jīva-soul, and if I go to the brahmajyoti am I still fallen."
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."
Revatīnandana dasa - "That means all jīva-souls there in the impersonal Brahman (Brahmajyoti) are also fallen souls?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition (Goloka Vrindavana and Vaikuntha). The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness."(Letter to Revatinandana dasa, LA 13 June, 1970 and 1971 London)
Krsna is behind everything, both the individual jiva-soul in there unnatural bodiless impersonal conditioned state, and the individual jiva-souls as their nature personal position as an eternal active contributing person serving Krsna.
Ultimately, the jiva-souls are individual PERSONS as an eternal spiritual bodily form as their full potential, but can ALWAYS choose to serve Krsna, or reject Him.
The many comments from past Sages, Acharyas, devotees and scholars who claim the individual jiva-souls can never fall down from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, may have made those comments for many reasons, to give faith among aspiring devotees and neophytes, or to encourage them to understand that their natural constitutional position IS never fall down and NEVER ''choose'' to leave the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, and NEVER desire to be independent from Krsna or Visnu.
The eternal individual jiva-soul's original perpetual position is always voluntarily pleasing Krsna in a variety of ways with personal contributions.
Choosing to fall to the temporary material world, and then, due to the frustration of repeated birth and death, eventually falling further to the impersonal (inactive) brahmajyoti where the frustrated jiva-souls attempt to extinguish their individual identity, personality and existence (attempted spiritual suicide) and outwardly appear as a bodiless almost dead dormant spark in the impersonal Brahman or Brahmajyoti, denies the individual jiva-souls of who they really are as a PERSON in in their full potential as Krsna's dear friend in their natural eternal home of Goloka-Vrindavana, or voluntary servant of Viṣṇu in the Vaikuntha planet.
The individual jiva-soul's spiritual bodily appearance is eternally similar to Krsna's form, but they can voluntarily change that at anytime and be a flower, or a tree, or gopi, or cowherd boy, a chair Krsna sits on, or the grass Krsna walks on, or a cloud in the sky Krsna admires, the choices are unlimited.
The eternal individual jiva-souls in the spiritual world can be a flag pole on Krsna's chariot, or even Krsna's chariot, running creek water, a tree, a pathway, a star in the sky Krsna admires etc, and at any moment can change back to a two armed human form in Goloka Vrindavana, or the four armed form on a Vaikuntha planets.
No individual spiritual bodily form the jiva-souls appear as, is fixed in the spiritual world, at anytime they want to voluntarily please Krsna in a certain way, they can change their appearance.
The individual jiva-soul's rasa (pastime) can constantly change over eternity. It is all voluntary, you can be what ever you want to be if it is you genuine desire to please or amuse Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada - "In the spiritual world our relationship with Krsna or Visnu is voluntary, some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb May 20, 1975)
In the spiritual world the choice of the individual jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna is ALWAYS voluntary, from a blade of grass to a tree, a cow or gopi.
Their individual contributions are eternally expressed in both the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana in a "two-way' reciprocal exchange with Krsna in an unlimited variety of different pastimes and bodily forms over eternity.
In the spiritual world only the "eternal presence" of Krsna exists, where as in the temporary mundane "material world" time is divided into "past, present and future" that causes a progressive state of material bodily decay, decline, impermanence and repeated birth and death.
In the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, the eternal individual jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are NEVER forced to surrender to Krsna or do anything they choose not to voluntarily do, everything there done out of selfless love for Radha and Krsna.
Also, there are no superior spiritual bodily forms one can permanently appear as in the spiritual world, this is because all spiritual bodily forms in the spiritual world (everything their is alive) are equally blissful and equal to each other.
As said above, from a blade of grass, to a flower, a tree, a bench Krsna sits on, a cloud in the sky, rain drops, a cow, a human form, many varieties of spiritual bodily froms, like cow herd boys and girls to shop owners etc. From the two armed bodily form in Vrindavana to the four armed bodily form in Vaikuntha, to being a dog, an ant, a bee, the wind in the sky, a Peacock, a monkey, etc, every thing in the spiritual world is alive with unlimited individuals in unlimited spiritual forms, nothing material (dead) or Maya can ever exist there.
The fact is all the eternal individual jiva-souls can be what ever form they desire to be or choose to be pleasing Krsna, or Visnu that are both equally blissful as being as their human spiritual bodily form. The human form is not higher or better than any other form one may choice to be in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.
Just like in this world some like carnation flowers while others prefer roses, it's an individual choice which is best for you.
Although, even though everything is equally blissful in the spiritual world, there are five different relationships with Krsna, with each one gradually becoming more intimate than the previous one.
One's original two armed spiritual body is always there as the basis, there is just a transformation of your spiritual body into a form you voluntarily choose.
From human form to a blade of grass, a cow, a horse, a chair, a cloud in the sky, a Peacock, a different type of human, a four armed form like Narayanas on a Vaikuntha planet, billions of different choices.
This is like a "shape-shifter." Just like once you appeared as a baby but now have the material body of an adult, same person, different material body, a similar type of "shape-shifting" from childhood, to youth, to middle age, to old age - same person, different body.
Devotee - "What is the form of the spiritual body. If the spirit soul is non-material, what is the form?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this material body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. You have got legs; therefore your pant has got legs. Therefore it is to be assumed that the spirit soul always has got form, and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. The spirit soul is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say and foolishly believe it has no form." (Lecture BG 2.14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
The full potential and original eternal feature of all marginal living entities (eternal individual jiva-souls) is a two-arm form like Krsna's Body.
Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form, God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."
Hari-sauri dasa – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"
Srila Prabhupada – [describing material form first]: "Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."
Hari-sauri dasa - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is voluntary, some devotee want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, May 20, 1975)
Fortunately, over 90% of individual jiva-souls choose to stay in the spiritual world's of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana even though they can choose to leave if they want. However, almost 10% do choose to leave the spiritual world and enter the material world via the dreams of Maha-Visnu.
Dr. John Mize – "Did all the jiva-souls that were in the spiritual sky (the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavan) fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any jiva-souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"
Srila Prabhupada – "No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down."
Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%."
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are… Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down." (BG, As It Is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
The eternal individual jiva-souls have the free will (freedom of individual self expression) to make their own choices which includes even rejecting Krsna if they choose.
For free will to truly exist, the choice to even reject Krsna must always be an option, otherwise free will has no meaning or place in such a dictatorial impersonal society.
In the spiritual world the eternal individual jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna is always voluntary and is NEVER forced, such voluntary service or non-service is only possible when there is free will.
The jiva-soul's individual contributions are eternally expressed in both the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana in a "two-way" reciprocal exchange of feelings with Krsna.
As said above, the eternal individual jiva-souls are never forced to surrender to Krsna or do anything they choose not to do, they are not Kṛṣṇa's mindless puppets He manipulates when ever He pleases, they are His friends who voluntarily contribute to the relationship that He reciprocates with loving exchanges.
For loving voluntary service and exchanges to truly exist, the individual jiva-souls must be able to act on their free will and make their own choices, decisions and offerings, even if it also means rejecting Krsna if they choose, otherwise there can be no question of voluntary loving exchanges.
Each individual jiva-soul can voluntarily express themselves as an independent individual to experience unique loving exchanges and personal service.
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
This quality of free will is part and parcel of the eternal individual jiva-soul's marginal constitution that allows them to express themselves as an independent free thinking expansion of the Krsna.
Therefore, being marginal (separated) also means the eternal individual jiva-souls ALWAYS have free will when the unique qualities of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are described.
As said above, Krsna allows this freedom that the individual jiva-souls have because without free will, loving exchanges, personal offerings and a two-way reciprocal relationship could never exist.
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return to the material atmosphere. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that." (Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
The eternal individual jiva-souls have the free will to make their own choices which includes even rejecting Krsna, therefore in the spiritual world the jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna is always voluntary.
Their individual contributions are eternally expressed in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana in "two-way" reciprocal exchanges with Krsna.
In the spiritual world the individual jiva-souls are never forced to surrender to Krsna or do anything they choose not to do.
For loving service and exchanges to truly exist, the individual jiva-souls must be able to act on their free will and make their own choices, decisions and offerings, even if it means rejecting Krsna, otherwise there can be no question of genuine voluntary loving exchanges.
Each individual jiva-soul can voluntarily express themselves as an independent individual to experience unique loving exchanges and personal service.
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
As said above, this quality of free will is part and parcel of the eternal individual jiva-soul's marginal constitution that allows them to be an independent (separated) contributing free thinking expansion of the Krsna, yet simultaneously fully dependent on Krsna and His energies.
Being "independent" (separated) and "dependent" (always under Krsna's control) simultaneously, is a paradox.
Therefore, being marginal (separated) means the eternal individual jiva-souls always have free.
This must be understood when describing the qualities of the eternal individual jiva-souls.
As said above, Krsna allows this freedom the individual jiva-souls have because without free will, loving exchanges, personal unique contributions and offerings in a two-way reciprocal relationship, could never exist.
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return to the material atmosphere. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that." (Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
Having "free will" is the constitutional make up of all eternal individual marginal living entities (jiva-souls) that is eternally part and parcel of their individual character and personality in the spiritual world.
This means the individual jiva-souls can choose to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana if they choose, at anytime, it is incorrect to claim the eternal individual jiva-souls can never again fall down once on the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana, that is their choose, not Kṛṣṇa's, otherwise free will has no memeaning.
"Free will" ALWAYS allows the eternal individual jiva-souls to have a choice and voluntarily contribute to their relationship with Krsna, and without that ability to voluntarily choose, there is no question of free will or loving exchanges either.
Those Gurus, Swamis, yogis, scholars, academics and devotees who wrongly believe that once they enter the spiritual world, they never again can fall down, are often very sentimental and immature.
And yes, even Krsna's promise in Bhagavad Gita claiming the jiva-souls who return to the spiritual world, never fall down again can be rejected by those jiva-souls who AGAIN choose to enter the material world.
So, the choice to even leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana is possible because Krsna allows a "two-way" relationship where one can also accept or reject Krsna if they choose, otherwise how can genuine love exist if there is no freedom?
Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will, unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."
Hayagriva dasa - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing is bad but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Talk on the philosophy of Rene Descartes)
There is only one classification of eternal individual jiva-souls, not two as some believe. Therefore each individual jiva-soul has "two-sides" to their personality, they can either be "nitya-baddha" (eternally conditioned), or "nitya-siddha"(eternally liberated)
The term "eternally liberated or nitya-siddha" means only eternal while being nitya-siddha. However, the "nitya-siddhas" can fall from the position of eternally liberated (nitya-siddha) to enter eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha)
It means the position is eternally liberated (nitya-siddha) and eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha) are an eternal "post" and not the jiva-souls holding those positions.
In this way, the individual jiva-souls can choose for themselves to be with Krsna, or reject Krsna. This is because each individual eternal jiva-soul, as part of their spiritual constitutional make-up eternally have free will.
Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 9th July 1970)
The jiva-souls therefore are eternal spiritual living PERSONS and can never be destroyed, terminated, divided into pieces or extinguished because the individual jiva-souls are indestructible and were never created, they are ageless like Krsna.
The individual jiva-soul's being “generated” from the "marginal plane or energy" does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from a beginning source because the jiva-souls were NEVER created.
Being "generated" means the individual jiva-souls are eternally part and parcel of a category of living beings called the marginal living entities or marginal plane or energy (individual jiva-souls).
Srila Prabhupada – "So, everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence; that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Some wrongly claim there are two types of jiva-souls-
1 - One who stays in the Vaikuṇṭha and Goloka-Vṛndāvana and never has a choice to go to the material creation (nitya-siddha)
2 - And the other in the material creation (nitya-baddha) who can also be dormant (inactive) in the impersonal Brahmajyoti. But can also enter the spiritual worlds too, but once there can never fall down, so they claim. There is only one category of individual jiva-souls who have "two-sides" to their individual personality. The eternal individual jiva-souls can be either nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) or nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned)
Note: - eternally conditioned or eternally liberated only applies while one is in that position in the spiritual world (eternally liberated) or in the material world (eternally conditioned)
The individual jiva-soul's infinite position is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) in the spiritual world. This means the eternal individual jiva-soul's original perpetual home is the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
As said above, there is only one category of the eternal individual jiva-soul who can be either nitya-baddha (conditioned) or nitya-siddha (eternally)
To make it clear, only one kind of eternal individual jiva-soul exists, and due to free will, they can choose to be either nitya-siddha (Krsna conscious) or nitya-baddha (conditioned).
The actual constitutional position of EVERY eternal individual marginal living entity (jiva-soul) is nitya-siddha.
Srila Prabhupada - "There are "two-kinds" of marginal living entities, one being nitya-siddha and the other is nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha." (CC lecture, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas (conditioned souls) AGAIN nitya-siddha (Krsna conscious)." (New York City Lecture CC, July 13, 1976).*<.
No comments:
Post a Comment
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.