Friday, May 31, 2024

The eternal marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls) never lose their unique "free will" that allows independent self expression on the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana.

The eternal marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls) never lose their unique "free will" that allows independent self expression and voluntary contributions and offerings in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana.

This means there are always loving exchanges and reciprocation going on eternally between the eternal individual jiva-souls and Krsna. 

The individual jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna is always voluntary and based on "free will," which means the freedom of self expression and the choice of personal offerings while participating in Krsna's service. 

Such cooperation between Kṛṣṇa and the eternal individual jīva-souls is the bases of personalism.

This further acknowledges that the individual jiva-soul's independent identity, personality and character is eternally separate from Krsna's absolute controlling Personality, even though Krsna knows everything and is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.

Krsna allows this diversity so a "two-sided" constructive, contributing relationship exists because for genuine love to exist, their MUST be loving exchanges between two independent individuals.  

This means the individual freedom (free will) of the eternal jiva-souls (devotees), exist for the purpose of having their own unique personal contributions and offerings in a relationship of cooperation, instead of always being told what to, how to think and act, that only denies voluntary contributions (personalism).

The devotees (the eternal individual jiva-souls) perpetually have free will, this means eternally having the freedom of self expression and unique independent actions.

Such freedom of consciousness inspires diversity, unlimited independent contributions and personal ideas in an atmosphere of mystery, intrigue and suspense 

Such qualities are always there in the spiritual world, and to be real, they must be expressed in a "two-way" mood of cooperation, loving exchanges and unique autonomy otherwise the spiritual world would be one-sided stagnant loveless place with nothing new is ever being presented or offered by the individual jiva-souls.

Of course, to the devotees (eternal individual jiva-souls), Krsna is the most beautiful, the kindest most caring selfless Person they know, the dedicated devotees are always in awe, amazement, humility and ecstasy while in His presence. 

However, due to free will, the individual devotees always have their independent choice to worship Kṛṣṇa, or ignore Him. Such worship of Kṛṣṇa is NEVER demanded by Krsna. 

In this way, the Kingdom of God is NOT a so called paradise centred impersonally around "one person," and forced in a "one-way" dictatorship of threatening demands to worship where that one person is surrounded by mindless drones (yes men and women).

No, Krsna does not want to be an impersonal self centred, self absorbed God like that, living in an impersonal loveless kingdom where all decisions are made by God denying the devotee of self expression and personal contributions and loving offerings or gifts.

Even though everyone in the spiritual world is always attracted to only Kṛṣṇa but such worship is never demanded by Krsna, that is voluntary due to the attraction the devotees have for Krsna.

Such worship of Kṛṣṇa is not Krsna's doing, and is never forced by Him, it is the devotee's (the eternal individual jiva-soul's) attraction and selfless love for Krsna that is the cause of their surrender to Krsna.

Those who choose to worship Kṛṣṇa are allowed to voluntarily serve Him in unlimited ways of their choice.

Krsna never demands, forces the eternal individual jiva-souls to do anything they choose not to voluntarily do.

Having free will creates intrigue and mystery, it is almost as if Krsna gave the individual jiva-souls their free will to see what they choose to do. 

Krsna therefore gives the eternal jiva-souls their independencinso they can express their unique free will.

Krsna wants to see the individual jiva-souls contribute in their own unique personal ways rather than always being controlled by God and being always told how to think and act. 

Such absolute control that denies self expression and personal voluntary contributions or service, is loveless  impersonalism.

In this way, personalism and free will, go to together, both are eternally linked, without free will, personalism can never exist.

This means in their full potential, all eternal individual jīva-souls are unique independent persons who eternally have the freedom to voluntary express themselves in their own way (free will)

These deep secrets of selfless pure devotional service within Krsna's creation, can only be expressed when "personalism" and "free will" are combined and properly understood.

At the same time, we must never forget that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, He wins our hearts by His selfless devotion and care for us, infact Krsna's love for His devotees is far greater than they can ever love Him. 

The following discussion with Srila Prabhupada explains how everything, including free will, comes from Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada is confirming below that everything comes from Krsna and must be sanctioned by Krsna first, including the individual eternal jiva-souls free will. 

Syamasundara dasa - "Does the individual jiva-soul have a little independence to choose?"

Srila Prabhupada - ''No, not without the sanction of Krsna first, His creating, His rules. Bhagavad-Gita states that when the individual jiva-soul wants to act, Krsna gives the orders (permission). "Man proposes and God disposes."

Syamasundara dasa - "So we have no free will?"

Srila Prabhupada - ''Not independent from Krsna because He is the cause of all causes and the source of everything there is, not without the sanction of Krsna first. Without Him, we cannot do anything, therefore Krsna is the ultimate cause."

Syamasundara dasa - ''But I thought you have been saying that we have a little independence?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, we have independence (free will) in the sense that we may deny or affirm, but unless Krsna sanctions our desires, we cannot do anything." (Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy)

Srila Prabhupada here is simply confirming everything comes from Krsna and must be sanctioned by Him first, including free will.

This is because Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes meaning nothing can happen without the sanction of Krsna. 

However, Krsna will always sanction free will and the ability to choose, because without free will, the eternal individual jiva-souls could never voluntary contribute in their own individual unique way to their relationship with Kṛṣṇa, free will actually makes the relationship with Krsna personal expressed in a two-way exchange.

In this way, as said above, free will and personalism go hand in hand in a "two-way" reciprocal relationship of loving co-operation and exchanges.

Just like a "one-way" suppressive dictatorship denys personal contributions and goes hand in hand with selfish impersonalism.

Above Srila Prabhupada in his discussion with Syamasundara dasa, is simply making the point that everything is under the control of Krsna and as said in Bhagavad Gita As It Is- 

"Not a blade of grass moves without the will of the Lord."

In other words, we only have free will because Krsna allows it.

As said above, often I wonder if Krsna gave the individual jiva-souls free will just to see what they would do with it and watch how they acted.

Although, as explained above, without free will (voluntary service) the spiritual world would be impersonal and emotionally stagnant and cold like dead stone!

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will!" (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

All the individual personal contributions from the eternal jiva-souls, are forever expanding their unique ability of self expression in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.

This allows them to always make voluntary offerings to Krsna and Viṣṇu that forever increase and expand the loving emotions of cooperation in a healthy "two-way" exchange between Kṛṣṇa and the individual jīva-souls.

It is very important for devotees of Krsna to understand that the eternal individual jiva-souls are "persons," as a perpetual spiritual bodily form, each with their own unique individual means of self expression existing always in both the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.

For loving exchanges to truly exist between Kṛṣṇa and His devotees in the spiritual world, each eternal individual jiva-soul (devotee) must have the free will to choose how to voluntarily express themselves.

The freedom self expression allows the devotees to voluntary contribute in their own unique way how THEY want to please Krsna, making the eternal relationship very personal.

Sadly, the individual devotees can also leave Krsna if they choose (fall down into the material world), otherwise there can be no question of free will expressed with voluntary loving exchanges and personal contributions.

Swedish man - "Is there free will?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, just like you are sitting here, if you don’t like, you can go away. That’s your free will. There is always free will, we are part and parcel of God, therefore we have got minute quantity of the freedom Krsna has." (Temple lecture Stockholm Sweden)

Srila Prabhupada - "Every individual jiva-soul is awarded a portion of independence because each is part and parcel of God. Thus he has the quality of independence, but in minute quantity. That is his individuality." (Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy)

Personalism and free will are eternally linked, without free will, personalism, or voluntary contributions and cooperation serving Krsna, can never exist.

Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are son of God you have independence, you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence. If you persist that “I must enjoy independently," God says, "All right, you can go.” This is the position, if you persist, God sanctions. And you can come here and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force.” (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly, that is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva dasa - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will, he misuses his free will. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison, everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will, therefore  unless there can be the misuse of free will, then there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from Discussions on Rene Descartes philosophy)

Syamasundara - "But can we predict returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however some do come back?''

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence and free will. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Talk with Syamasundara on Henri Bergson philosophy)

Bali Mardana - ''An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that example of free will?''

Srila Prabhupāda - ''Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? 

Kṛṣṇa says, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām: (BG 9.14) "Always chanting about Me." That is mahātmā. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: (BG 9.13) 

Mahātmā, those who are devotee, they are not under these material influence. If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa." (Morning Walk, Jan 22, 1974, Hawaii)

The qualities of "free will" or self expression allows the eternal individual jiva-souls to contribute in their own unique way separate from Krsna's all-pervasive control, based on their own "personal sense of individual self." 

This means the eternal individual jiva-souls can contribute or serving Krsna in their own unique way that makes them the individual persons they are for infinity.

In other words, "free will" allows the eternal individual jiva-souls in the spiritual world to always voluntarily express themselves in their own unique special way, making them the contributing person they are eternally.

Srila Prabhupada - “The individual jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is always voluntary, some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there, If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna and become a flower, voluntarily, and one can change his form in the spiritual world from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

In the spiritual world all relationships with Krsna are voluntary, equally blissful to each other.

Just like one may like a carnation flower while others may choose to like a rose flower. All the services the devotees choose are equal in the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.  

The eternal individual unique jiva-souls are independent living entities in the spiritual world and have their own unique personality and sense of independent self separate from Krsna's Personality, yet simultaneously are always dependent on Krsna as His parts and parcels and creation.

The reason why Krsna gives the eternal individual jiva-souls their independence and free will is so they can choose for themselves how to voluntarily serve Krsna in their own unique personal way without His or anyone elses domination as clearly explained above.

This means the individual jiva-souls in the spiritual world are always contributing in their own unique way, with offerings of their choice without any pressure or force from Krsna.

Real love or service can only exist when there is free will (freedom of unique expression) that only fully exists in a "two-way" relationship of cooperation, reciprocation and loving exchanges with Krsna that He allows to create diversity and selfless personalism.

This allows the individual jiva-souls to voluntarily participate as an independent person in loving devotional exchanges providing personal contributions to their relationship with Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.

Otherwise, as explained above, if Krsna never allowed individual independence and personal contributions then His abode would be a useful loveless example of impersonalism.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is not love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only by one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness, so how can there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience? Love means one? No, love means two! There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He's so lover of you that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

Surrender to Krsna in the spiritual world does not mean giving up your "free will" and individual personality and then allow Krsna to control your every actions, deeds, words and thoughts like a puppet master controls his puppets! 

Such nonsense forced manipulative control is impersonalism and spiritual suicide to a real devotee of God!

Krsna is not like that at all, He is completely opposite to that dictatorial nonsense.

No, the eternal individual jiva-souls in the spiritual world are not programmed "mindless" drones who only obey and never contribute to the relationship with Krsna individual and their own unique way by thinking for themselves.

If a so called God never allowed free will, or forcefully controlled it, then He is a useless God who must be rejected! 

Therefore, the eternal individual jiva-souls can never lose their "free will" on the Vaikuntha planets or in Goloka Vrindavana, meaning they always have the choice to accept Kṛṣṇa or reject Krsna. 

And that is also why it is nonsense to foolishly claim the individual eternal jiva-souls can never fall down from the spiritual world.

The eternal jiva-souls always have the individual ability of independent self expression which allows them to make their own unique offering of personal contributions to Krsna unique to each individual jiva-soul.

Only by having "free will" can genuine loving exchanges and reciprocation (personalism) take place. 

And without "free will" personalism can never exist, the eternal individual jiva-souls devoid of free will (freedom to express themselves) are no better than dead mindless stone Prabhupada has warned us.

Furthermore, in the spiritual world Krsna never interrups the free will of the individual jiva-souls in how they prefer to service Him, or even not serve Him.

This is because if He did, and never allowed His devotees their free will,  or having the unique self expression to make their own choices in the spiritual world, then that also would mean loving exchanges and voluntarily service participation with Krsna could never exist.

If one is forced to worship Krsna or Visnu or any form of God, then that is not love, it is dictatorial tyranny and therefore impersonalism.

The "impersonal" version of God's abode where individual jiva-souls are forced to surrender their "free will" and allow their bogus version of God to take over their individual existence, allowing Him to do all the thinking for them, as many nonsense religious cults propagate, is dangerous impersonalism.

Having "free will" on the other hand, allows Krsna's devotees to investigate all that is around them and what is the goal of human iife and be the individual  in themselves as Krsna’s voluntary servant and express themselves as an independent person, who voluntarily serves Krsna the way they choose to voluntarily serve Him - that is what "personalism" really means.

Voluntary service to Krsna and His devotees is the bases of real surrender in Goloka-Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha planets which are the permanent eternal home and origin of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls).

The devotees on the Vaikuntha planets and in Goloka Vrindavana are forever voluntarily expanding the variousoķ expressions of their unique individuality with an ever increasing variety of personal devotional offerings based on free will.

As said above, it is never a nonsense "one-sided master/slave" mindless impersonal relationship with Krsna.

As said above, Krsna does not control the "surrendered" jiva-souls by force like a puppet master controls every movement of his puppets with the manipulations of strings, denying self expression, individual contributions and voluntary service. However, Krsna does control His pure devotees with selfless loving exchanges and reciprocation.

The eternal individual jiva-souls voluntarily allow this out of their unconditional attraction and love for beautiful Krsna who does everything for His devotees and serves them more than they can ever serve Him.  

Actually Kṛṣṇa is far more selfless and caring than His devotees can ever imagine and therefore serves them far more than they can ever serve Him.

Srila Prabhupada - "Krsna does not want to become a lover by force, from the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; no, that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

If the individual jiva-souls had no "free will" in the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets, and Goloka-Vrindavana, then personalism, that involves a two-sided progressive relationship of loving exchanges and reciprocation, would have no meaning. The eternal jiva-souls would be no better than dead stone Prabhupada explains here-

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will!" But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual individual jiva-souls, we are all originally Kṛṣṇa conscious entities, but due to our association with matter since time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by material atmosphere. When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (the jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Harā, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The "Happening Record Album" recorded Dec 1966 in New York City, USA)


























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