Gauragopala Das ACBSP

Saturday, July 29, 2023

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) associate with existence in four different categories.

1 - The jiva-souls (marginal living entities) voluntarily associate with Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavana as a friend and in four other different ways as an unlimited variety of bodily forms explained below, including their original two armed bodily form like Krsna's bodily form.

2 - Voluntarily serving Visnu/Narayana in many ways as an unlimited variety of bodily forms including a 4 armed bodily form likes Visnus, who is the Supreme God on the unlimited Vaikuntha planets that surround Krsna's central Adode of Goloka-Vrindavana.

3 - Being embodied (covered) in a temporary material bodily vessel in the impermanent material creation within 8 million 400 thousand species of bodies (400 thousands only being human form)

4 - And attempting to cease one's existence as a person by attempting to merge (extinguishing one's individuality) into the dormant "inactive" impersonal Brahmajyoti. Entering the "inactive" Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman to a Vaiṣṇava is considered spiritual suicide (even though the condition is also temporary)

However, such merging is only temporary and not permanent, even though the jiva-souls can stay there hovering inactively for a very, very long time, many millions of life time of Lord Brahma who lives for 311 trillion and 400 billion human years.

The dormant (inactive) jiva-souls in the Brahman effulgence eventually fall out of that inactive condition (impersonal Brahmajyoti) because the nature of the jiva-soul is to be ALWAYS active and have a reciprocal relationship with Kṛṣṇa.

In fact, the jiva-souls can stay in the impersonal Brahmajyoti for so long that when they again awaken from their impersonal inactive slumber, they wrongly believe the impersonal Brahmajyoti is their origin when inactive they all come from Vaikuntha.

Srila Prabhupada - "The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are NOT from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non Krsna consciousness." (Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long as one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness, he does not fall down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness, immediately he has fallen down." (Letter to Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

The jiva-souls forget they fell to that dormant condition in the impersonal brahman in the first place a long, long, long time ago that can equal quadrillions of life times of Lord Brahma who lives for 311 trillion and 40 billion human years.

The jiva-souls are NOT generated (originate) from some imaginary place or plane in outer space, OR from the impersonal Brahmajyoti because they have no origin, they have ALWAYS existed.

Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls "originated" from some place in the Brahmajyoti (Spiritual Sky), including tatastha-sakt or from the Body of Maha-Visnu that are already fallen conditioned states the jiva-souls have fallen too.

Being "marginal" means the jiva-souls have the choice to be influenced by the spiritual energy, or the material energy-

1 - The jiva-souls nature position and full potential in the spiritual world is always being connected to the spiritual energy.

2 - Or by the material energy which is an unnatural or incompatible "conditioned state" the jiva-soul is in.

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (The Happening Hare Krsna record album, New York City, Dec 1966)

As said above, the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will. There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The jiva-souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Only the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) can express themselves in a seperate way from Krsna, including disageeing with Him if they choose, which means they have free will.

This is because all Visnu-tattva personalities ARE Krsna just playing unlimited roles in other ways in His own pastimes.

Mother Yasoda is not a jiva-soul, she is a direct expansion of Krsna (Visnu-tattva). In other words, just like Krsna is also Balarāma, and Radharani is also Krsna but in a different mood, Mother Yasoda is also an expansion of Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - "Nanda and mother Yasoda are the eternal father and mother of Krsna. This means that whenever Krsna descends, Nanda and Yasoda, as well as Vasudeva and Devaki, also descend as the Lord's father and mother. Their personalities are expansions of Krsna's personal body." (SB, Canto 10 Ch 8 Text 48)

There are no new jiva-souls being created by Krsna, Maha-Visnu, or from the impersonal brahmajyoti.

The Spiritual Sky is always expanding because of the ever increasing pastimes of Krsna and Visnu.

The jiva-souls (marginal living entities) were NEVER created, they are beginningless and endless and have ALWAYS existed over infinity.

But sadly, many cannot understand these facts explained in Bhagavad Gita As It Is.

Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls). Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)

Maha-Visnu does NOT create any jiva-souls, the jiva-souls go to Maha-Visnu after leaving Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, to acquire a material bodily vessel so they can enter the material creation in an attempt to experience their desires.

As said above, no jiva-souls originates from Maha-Visnu, nor does He create any jiva-souls as some wrongly teach.

The jiva-souls enter His body in a dormant condition after the annihilation of the material universes and reamian there until the next material creation.

It is important to understand there is no such thing as new jiva-souls being created because they have ALWAYS existed and were NEVER created as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains-

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG, Ch 2 Text 12)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20 "correct" 1983 edition)

Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

Only matter is temporary (like the material bodily vessel the jiva-soul is presently in), while the jiva-souls in the material bodily vessels are eternal and can NEVER cease to exist.

This means when the material vessels the jiva-soul are in breaks down due to disease, decay, old age or accidents, and ceases to function, the jiva-souls can no longer remain in that broken material body, and are forced to take another material bodily vessel in the womb of a new mother.

The jiva-souls also never lose their spiritual identity mentioned above when the outer covering or material body breaks down and decays (dies) and merges back into the oneness of material energy.

The jiva-soul NEVER dies but only vacates a material bodily vessels when it wear our and ceases to function (known as the death of the material body)

The individual jiva-souls (marginal living entities) were never created, each jiva-soul has no origin because they were never created as Chapter 2 text 12 and text 20 of Bhagavad Gita As It Is reveals above.

The jiva-souls contained in the "subtle" material body, (mind, intelligence, ego) are forced to continuously change "gross material bodies" because of the temporary decaying nature of matter.

Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions where are the spirit souls coming from? These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new soul. New and old are due to this material body, but the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be new soul?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "The "immediate" expansions of the Lord are called svāṁśa or "personal direct" expansions (known as Visnu-tattva, where the Lord Himself plays a different role in His own pastimes). The "separated" expansions of the Krsna are called vibhinnāṁśa - (jiva-souls endowed with independence and free will) like us." (BG, Ch 10 Text 37, Purport)

The fact is, all jiva-souls are eternal without beginning or end so they have NO origin.

The marginal plane (also called tatastha-sakti along with many other names for the jiva-souls) is NOT some place of origin for the jiva-souls, rather, it is another name for the jiva-souls describing their position in the conditioned state in the material creation or impersonal Brahmajyoti.

What "condition" of existence does tatastha-sakti mean the jiva-souls are in?

Srila Prabhupada - "So this material world is the taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics, and the spiritual world is the "personal" characteristics. So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha-śakti (conditioned state) characteristics and to enter the permanent characteristics (Vaikuntha), that is called spiritual elevation." (Lecture CC Madhya-lila 20.354-358, New York City, Dec 28, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "Because the individual soul is apt to fall down sometimes under the clutches of māyā, it is called taṭastha-śakti. Just like in the seaside the shore, the beach, sometimes you see it is covered by water and sometimes it is land. Similarly, when we are covered by māyā, that is our jīva-bhūta stage, and when there is no more covering, that is brahma-bhūta stage. When we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we are brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), and when we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we are materially conscious, that is māyā." (Lecture BG, Ch 7 text 4-5, Bombay, March 30, 1971)

The idea that the jiva-souls originate from tatastha-sakti is nonsense because the "marginal plane" (jiva-souls) DO NOT originate from anywhere or are created by Krsna because they are eternal like Krsna's is.

The marginal plane ARE the individual jiva-souls, there is NO origin for the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) as said above, the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) have no point of origin including from the impersonal Brahmajyoti, tatastha-sakti and the Body of Maha-Visnu.

The marginal plane or marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls) are expansions of Krsna who have ALWAYS existed WITHOUT beginning or end, just like the Sun-rays have always existed together with the Sun-disc.

Srila Prabhupada - "Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)

The point made here is the jiva-souls are the same age as Kṛṣṇa, meaning there was no beginning to the jiva-soul's existence and will be no end, sometimes the jiva-souls live in the internal energy (anti-matter or spiritual energy) that is the jiva-soul's natural constitution, and sometimes they live in the external energy (matter) where the jiva-soul is covered by a material bodily vessel

The jiva-souls (marginal living entities) can NEVER exist independently from Krsna even though they can express their independent free will that Krsna provides for the purpose of allowing a "two-way" voluntary exchange of loving expressions, emotions and unique personal offerings.

The Sun-disc and the sun-rays CANNOT exist separately from each other, similarly Krsna cannot exist separately from the living entities (His parts and parcels)

Each "jiva-soul" (marginal living entity) is a one of a kind independent individual with their own unique personality and character different from other personalities including Kṛṣṇas.

No two individual jiva-souls are the same, and no jiva-souls can EVER become God (Krsna or Visnu) and also Siva.

Loving devotional service to Krsna is ALWAYS based on a "two-way" voluntary exchange of personal feelings, manifesting as loving acts of reciprocation between Kṛṣṇa and His devotees.

Such devotees (jiva-souls) "voluntarily" contribute their own unique expressions (offerings) of devotional service to Krsna in the spiritual worlds as the real meaning of "surrendering to Krsna's will" that does NOT deny the "free will" and individual expression of each jiva-soul.

Just like with the Sun-disc and the sun-rays (sunshine) there is no separation between the two, similarly Krsna (compared to the Sun-disc) and His marginal living entities or jiva-souls (compared to the sun-rays) can NEVER be separated.

The jiva-souls were NOT generated (created) from a "clear sheet of consciousness" either as some preach, because, as explained above, they have ALWAYS existed without beginning or end.

What is the original form of the jiva-soul?

Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 Text 14 - Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee - "What is the form of the spiritual body. If the spirit soul is non-material, what is the form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this material body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. You have got legs; therefore your pant has got legs. Therefore it is to be assumed that the spirit soul always has got form, and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. The spirit soul is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say and foolishly believe it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 Text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee – "Is the original body of the jiva-soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is voluntary, some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be as a flower, I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Kṛṣṇa as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

The jiva-souls (marginal living entities) can NEVER exist independently from Krsna, even though they CAN express their independent free will that Krsna provides for the purpose of allowing a "two-way" voluntary exchange of loving expressions, emotions and unique personal offerings between the jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa.

There are five relationships the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) have with Krsna explained below.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you are simply taking from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love that is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything in return, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only by one. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "Their impersonalist philosophy is "oneness." So how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant..." (Lecture SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

A devotee has a relationship with Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes, in five different ways-

1. One may be a devotee in a passive state;

2. One may be a devotee in an active state;

3. One may be a devotee as a friend;

4. One may be a devotee as a parent;

5. One may be a devotee as a conjugal lover.''

Srila Prabhupada explains these 5 relationships in detail in His Books like "Nectar of Devotion."

A "PASSIVE" relationship (number one in above list) with Krsna in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, is an almost "inactive" position the jiva souls can CHOOSE according to their desires ("free will") such as-

cloud in the sky,

blade of grass,

tree,

rock or stone,

fence,

chair or bench,

flag pole and a flag

roadway,

chariot, etc

The point is, EVERYTHING is alive in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, unlike the mundane dead material creation.

This means EVERYTHING from the shoes on your feet, to the clothes you wear, are all individual jiva-souls who have "shape-shifted" as that form because they have voluntarily chosen to play that particular role in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.

This is called a "passive" relationship with Krsna.

The ORIGINAL eternal form of the jiva soul, is a body like Krsnas Prabhupada has said, two arms, two legs etc like Krsna has in Vṛndāvana.

This means the 4 armed bodily form the jiva-souls have in the Vaikuntha planets that looks like Visnu - Narayana Form is NOT the original form.

This also means ALL marginal living entities (jiva-souls) originate from Goloka-Vrindavana which is an eternal fully Kṛṣṇa Consciousness "active" abode Kṛṣṇa's eternal pastimes) meaning there is no origin.

Many jiva-souls CHOOSE to have a passive (inactive or idle) relationship with Krsna but it is NEVER impersonal.

This means they do not react visibly to something that might be expected of them, like outwardly manifesting emotions or feelings as a blade of grass or a chair that Krsna sits on.

Or like a flower or tree is only seen moving in the wind and outwardly showing no effection or passion, even though "inwardly" the jiva-soul, as that blade of grass or tree, is ecstatically and blissfully fully aware of Krsns’s personal presence, and Krsna is fully aware of those personalities as a blade of grass, a flower, a chair or a tree.

Many jiva-souls are therefore choose to be passive "living" objects in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana that do not involve visible reaction or active participation.

This is playing a passive or seemingly inactive role in God's Kingdom.

However, one should NOT confuse a "passive relationships" in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana with impersonal mundane "inactive nonsense" of the Mayavadis.

The fact is, Krsna's abode is full of diversity where the jiva-souls can voluntarily express various kinds of pure loving service to Krishna, from "active" service of being a Cow herd boy, to "inactive" service like being a flag on top of a flag pole or the pole.

These relationships with Krsna are also based on reciprocation and loving exchanges too, even if the jiva-souls manifest themselves as a cloud in the sky, or a bench for Krsna to sit on, or a plate for Krsna to eat off.

Just like we enjoy relationships with our families and society, so does Krsna. However, all of His relationships are eternal in Goloka Vrindavana as their Spiritual forms, completely free of material contamination and conditioning.

Each of Krsna’s jiva-soul's interacts with Him by their "free will" in one of five primary relationships as said above.

All jiva-souls are EQUALLY intimate with Krsna because in the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa treats them all equally with loving exchanges and responds to them individually based on their expression of love for Him.

All relationships with between Krsna and the jiva-souls are equally blissful, just like one may like a carnation flower while others like rose flower.

Loving relationships with Krsna, the jiva-souls can CHOOSE from different types.

These five are -

1 - Neutrality,

2 - Servitude,

3 - Friendship,

4 - Parental affection,

5 - And conjugal love.

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary, some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be as a flower, I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

More intimate love of Krsna reaches its summit in romantic exchanges with Krsna, each devotee can choose to experience one of these main moods-

Devotees in the mood of "neutrality" choose to witness and support Krsna’s pastimes by their presence as plants, animals, streams, and so on, as well as normally inanimate objects like houses—all of which are fully conscious and alive in Goloka Vrindavan.

Devotees in the "service mood" choose to run errands for Krsna, pack His lunch, wash His clothes, and perform other acts of loving service for Him.

Devotees in the "fraternal mood" choose to serve Krsna by being His friends.

They are sometimes boastful, considering themselves equal to Krsna because they have no idea Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes, nor do they care.

In Krsna's company the cow herd boys and girls enjoy games in the beautiful country forest settings of Vṛndāvana.

Devotees who voluntarily choose to be in the "parental mood", see themselves as Krsna’s provider and protector.

Krsna behaves with them like a dependent child. His mother cuddles Him, carefully prepares His meals, and thinks only of His protection. His father sees that He has all the comforts of a normal home.

Devotees who choose to be in the "conjugal" (of whom many are also Visnu-tattva and NOT just jiva-souls) position, or romantic, mood offer service as Krsna’s girlfriends, relating with Him in the intimacy of lover and beloved.

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your question about our relationship with Srimati Radharani, She is the internal energy, we are marginal energy. Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy; we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt. (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "When Kṛṣṇa kills the demons outside Vṛndāvana, He is not original Kṛṣṇa; He is Vāsudeva. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). When Kṛṣṇa is acting universally, that is Vāsudeva. Original Kṛṣṇa is ALWAYS in Vṛndāvana."

Jayatīrtha - "If the original Kṛṣṇa is always in Vṛndāvana, then why do the gopīs and Rādhārāṇī feel separation from Him?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That is here, in this material world. In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa does not leave."

Jayatīrtha - "Oh."

Srila Prabhupāda - "And even in the material world, Kṛṣṇa superficially has gone to Mathurā, but He has captured the heart of the gopīs. So He is not leaving. Gopīs are enjoying Kṛṣṇa by separation. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's feeling, how He is appreciating Kṛṣṇa by separation." (Morning Walk, July 17, 1975, San Francisco) ×^^×

Tuesday, July 25, 2023

The individual marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are PERSONS eternally, as a spiritual bodily form.

The jiva-souls are eternal PERSONS which is their full spiritual bodily potential voluntarily serving Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.

Srila Prabhupada - "The "immediate" expansions of the Lord are called svāṁśa or personal direct expansions (Visnu-tattva who are Krsna playing another role in His own pastimes) The "separated" expansions of the Lord are called vibhinnāṁśa - (jiva-tattva or soul) or independent jiva-souls like us." (BG, Ch 10 Text 37, Purport)

This means each "individual jiva-soul" has their own unique independent spiritual body, personality and free will to voluntarily serve Krsna in 5 different ways or pastimes.

The eternal spiritual bodily form of the jiva-soul is-

sat,

cit,

ananda,

vigraha.

These word's means-

eternity,

knowledge,

bliss,

form.

Fortunately, over 90% of jiva-souls choose to stay in the spiritual world's of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, even though they can choose to leave if they want, therefore almost 10% of jiva-souls do choose to leave and enter the material creation via the dreams of Maha-Visnu.

In the spiritual world the jiva-soul's loving relationship with Krsna is always voluntary and never forced.

The individual contributions from the jiva-souls are eternally expressed in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana in "two-way" reciprocal exchange with Krsna and Visnu.

In the spiritual world the jiva-souls are never forced to surrender to Krsna, all service to Krsna is voluntary.

For loving service and exchanges to truly exist, the individual jiva-souls must be able to act on their free will and make their own choices, decisions and offerings, even if it also means rejecting Krsna if they choose, otherwise there can be no question of voluntary loving exchanges.

Each jiva-soul can voluntarily express themselves as an independent individual to experience unique loving exchanges and personal service.

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism)

This quality of free will is part and parcel of the jiva-soul's marginal constitution that allows them to be an independent free thinking (able to have a voluntarily act of self expression) expansion of Krsna. Therefore, being a marginal living entity (jiva-soul) means having free will that is included when describing the qualities of the individual jiva-souls.

As said above, Krsna allows this freedom the jiva-souls have because without free will loving exchanges, personal offerings and contributions in a "two-way" reciprocal relationship would never exist.

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return to the material atmosphere. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that." (Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)

Having free will explained above, is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) that is eternally part and parcel of their individual character and personality in the spiritual world.

This even means the jiva-souls can choose to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana if they choose, at anytime.

lt is nonsense to claim the jiva-souls can never again fall down once in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, they do and can always fall down, but most (over 90%) choose to stay.

This is because free will always allows the choice to choose, and without the ability to voluntarily choose, there is no question of loving exchanges.

So, the choice to even leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana is possible because Krsna allows a "two-way" relationship where one can accept or reject Krsna if they choose.

Bali Mardana - "An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that an example of free will?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa."(Morning Walk, Jan 22, 1974, Hawaii)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will, unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva Dasa - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing is bad but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Talk on Rene Descartes with Hayagriva dasa)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one-way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Genuine loving exchanges can never exist if one's relationship with God was not a "two-way" exchange of feelings, but only a domineering "one-sided" affair with a so called God. Freedom or free will obviously includes having the choice to accept or reject Krsna, otherwise free will has no meaning and is useless.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krsna does not want to become a lover like that." (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

Srila Prabhupāda – "Unless there are "two-persons," where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

There is only one classification of jiva-souls (marginal living entities) who can remain liberated or become conditioned in the material world, not two as some foolish believe.

This means each individual jiva-soul has "two-sides" to their character and personality. They can either be "nitya-baddha" (eternally conditioned), or "nitya-siddha" (eternally liberated)

The term "eternal" means ONLY while in that "perpetual free state" in the spiritual world, or while "conditioned" in the material world.

This means the jiva-souls can choose for themselves to be with Krsna, or reject Krsna. Each jiva-soul, as part and parcel of their spiritual constitutional make-up, always have the free will to choose.

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence; that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Some wrongly claim there are two types of jiva-souls, one only in the spiritual world, the other in the material world which is nonsense-

1 - One who stays in the Vaikuṇṭha and Goloka Vṛndāvana and never has a choice to go to the material creation (nitya-siddha)

2 - And the other in the material creation (nitya-baddha) who can also be dormant (inactive) in the impersonal Brahmajyoti. But can also enter the spiritual worlds too, but once there can never fall down, so they claim.

There is only one category of jiva-soul who have "two-sides" to their individual personality - nitya-siddha (eternally conditioned) and nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned).

The jiva-souls can be either nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) or nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned), however, the jiva-soul's original position is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated), and the fallen condition of the jiva-soul is nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned).

This means the jiva-soul's original home is Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

As said above, there is only one category of the jiva-soul who can be either nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned) or nitya-siddha (eternally liberated). To make it clearer, there is only "one kind" of "jiva-soul" existing and they are ALL known as the "marginal living entities" in both the spiritual and material worlds.

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-souls are always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva-souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva-soul is called as Krsna’s marginal energy." (Letter to Rayarama, Dec 2, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada - "The "immediate" expansions of the Lord are called svāṁśa or personal direct expansions (Visnu-tattva who are Krsna playing another role in His own pastimes) The "separated" expansions of the Lord are called vibhinnāṁśa (jiva-tattva or "independent" jiva-souls (marginal living entities) like us." (BG, Ch 10 Text 37, Purport)

Each individual jiva-soul (marginal living entity) in the spiritual world can "choose" to "voluntarily" serve Krsna in an unlimited variety of ways as an unlimited varieties of bodily forms, or can even reject Krsna if they choose to do so, and enter or return to the impermanent decaying material world.

Srila Prabhupada – "The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom." (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Being "marginal" means the jiva-souls can always choose to be under the influence of the spiritual energy or under the material energy or choose to be either nitya-siddha or nitya-baddha.

Srila Prabhupada - "There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of EVER marginal living entity is nitya-siddha." (CC lecture, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha." (New York Lecture CC, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them to their original position. It is a difficult task." (London lecture BG, 13-14, July 14, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "Nitya-baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahma down to a small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddha. Anyone who enters the material world, they are nitya baddha." (Lecture BG, 13-14, July 14, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka (Goloka Vrindavana), does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new souls. New and old are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth how there can be new soul." (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa, 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities, usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence." (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa, 02/27/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "But his relationship with Krsna is never lost, simply forgotten by the influence of maya, it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original constitutional position (nitya-siddha). The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new." (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa, 02/27/1970)

Genuine meaningful loving exchanges are voluntary in a reciprocal "two-way" relationship, it is never a "one-way" forceful dictatorship where Krsna possess you and does all the thinking and actions for you, that is NOT surrender, it is impersonalism.

Surrender to Krsna's pure devotees does not mean you lose your free will, the independence of voluntary service, the ability to think for yourself, and unique individuality in the spiritual world, no, mindless bogus surrender is impersonalism!

The jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are eternal PERSONS, as a spiritual bodily form like Krsnas Body, whose perpetual permanent natural home is the spiritual world.

God (Krsna) is not ONLY an all-pervading consciousness who is even in the atom, no, Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes is also simultaneously an individual "PERSON" as an eternal spiritual bodily Form, who's Bodily rays ARE the Brahmajyoti.

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Hari-sauri Dasa– "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes, but they are more covered in the materialworld, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri Dasa- "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is voluntary, some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 Melb, May 20, 1975)

Devotee - "I want to know exactly what is the form of the body. If the spirit soul (jiva-soul) is nonmaterial, what is the form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form. Just like this body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand, you have got leg; therefore your pant has got leg. Therefore, it is to be assumed that the spirit soul has got form, and it has developed into hands, legs, heads, everything. It is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14 Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee - "Śrīla Prabhupāda, you state that spirit soul has form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, otherwise how is the material body grown to accommodate the spirit soul? Just like a shirt has no form, but when it's put on the body, it takes the shape of the body in its full potential as the human form."

Devotee - "So that mean that the jiva-soul has the shape of the spiritual body accommodating it?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes" (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 16 text 24 Hawaii, Jan 20, 1974)

The jiva-souls natural home is in the spiritual energy with Krsna in Goloka Vrindavana as individual spiritual PERSONS like Krsna.

The jiva-souls are eternal PERSONS called the "marginal living entities" meaning they can be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.

The marginal living entity (jiva-soul) have always had their freedom (free will) therefore, there is no question of the marginal living entity ever not having free will because free will in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana is perpetually part and parcel of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) make up.

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) originate from Goloka-Vrindavana and not the Impersonal Brahman as Prabhupada teaches.

Originally, and the eternal constitution, is ALL jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are nitya-siddha because they all come from Goloka-Vrindavana, only when they enter the material creation and the impersonal brahman do they then become nitya-baddha.

Therefore nitya-siddha can become a nitya-baddhas and nitya-baddhas can AGAIN become nitya-siddha.

No jiva-souls originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti which is a condition of consciousness the jiva-souls fall too as Prabhupada explains here-

Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness." (Letter to Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that "Don’t fall down.

Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving."

Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is desire."

Devotee – "In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he insists, Oh, I must go. I must go." "All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?" Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that "I must go and enjoy independently," so God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)

Question - Is there a place in the spiritual world from where we can never fall down from?"

Answer - No, it is not based on a place where you can never fall down from that keeps you in Vaikuntha, it does not work that way because of free will, which means there is always choice to leave Vaikuntha at any moment or voluntarily stay. If you were forced to stay there then how can there be love? The choice to leave or stay must always be with the jiva-souls too.

So, many cannot understand what free will really means, they sentimentally claim "not even the leaves fall from Vaikuntha."

It is nonsense to claim the jiva-souls can ever again fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana because they each have their own free will and can make their own decisions no matter what Kṛṣṇa promises.

Remaining in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana eternally is based on what the jiva-soul's want to do as a unique individual, it is also their choice to say or go, not just Krsnas as explained above, otherwise there is no meaning to having free will.

If Krsna forced His will on the jiva-souls then He destroys their independence, free will and ability to voluntarily express themselves in their own unique way, allowing themselves to choose where they want to be even if returning to the material creation.

In other words, the jiva-souls also have a choice to become a servant of the Lord or can reject Him if they want, even in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

Genuine loving exchanges can never exist if one's relationship with Krsna the Supreme Lord was not in a "two-way" voluntary reciprocation.

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is always "voluntary." Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, May 20, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krsna does not want to become a lover like that." (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

The jiva-souls never lose their unique ability of free will and independent self expression, where one is personally always aware they can choose how to selflessly serve Krsna in their own unique way as the loving servant of the servant of Krsna.

The claim that one does not again fall from Krsna's personal Kingdom, is the jiva-soul's responsibility too, and not just Krsnas. It is also the jiva-soul's choice as well, it is their free will to choose, and no one else can choose for them, including Krsna, otherwise what is the point of having free will?

However, 90% of all jiva-souls do not fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana because they choose not to fall down, but even that can change because of free will, in this regards nothing is permanent, not even in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

That choice to stay in Vaikuntha or leave is always up to the marginal living entities or jiva-souls too.

The jiva-souls or marginal living entities have 78.125% of Krsna's quantities or 50 of Krsna's 64 attributes which puts them in the realm of having independent identity, personality, individuality and the ability to choose.

This means the jiva-souls have the ability to agree or not agree with Krsna.

Their individuality allows the jiva-souls the right to choose Krsna or choose to be separate from Krsna, this is the meaning of free will.

Remember, Maya and the material energy do not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, so Maya is unknown to the jiva-souls in the spiritual worlds and are NOT the cause of fall down.

Free will and independence therefore, allows the jiva-souls to experience a unique sense of individuality with the ability to express oneself in their own way.

All these qualities are the constitutional makeup of each jiva-soul (marginal living entities in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

And if all those abilities are taken away, then the jiva-souls lose the ability to give and accept love and become no better than dead stone.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. Do you want to be stone? Then, you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)

No one forces the jiva-souls to stay in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, that choice

For loving exchanges to truly exist with the jiva-soul, they must have the the right to express themselves and choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at anytime, therefore returning there is not necessarily permanent.

Syamasundara - "But can we predict that the process (returning back home back to Godhead) will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence and free will. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no question of permanent because he has got independence, he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back. but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Prabhupada with Syamasundara discussion on Henri Bergson)

The jiva-souls are minor expansions of Krsna endowed with individuality that allows them to experience an independent personal sense of self separate from Krsna.

This allows the jiva-souls to make their own decisions and choices. Therefore, Krsna does not interfere with the jiva-soul's free will because it is part of the eternal constitution of all jiva-souls.

Krsna never at any point did not give freedom or free will to the marginal living entities (jiva-soul) because they have always had free will in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana without beginning or end.

Free will allows the jiva-souls to experience individuality, loving reciprocation, independent service, and be responsible for their actions.

This however, does not means all jiva-soul's are independent from Krsna's control of all things, that is not possible, at all time the jiva-souls are always dependent on Krsna or His different expansions like Maha-Visnu, even as independent individuals in the material world because Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.

Therefore, the jiva-souls always remain independent living entities, but simultaneously depend on Krsna and His expansions in both the spiritual world and the material world.

The jiva-souls are never fully independent because Krsna owns everything.

So, even though the jiva-souls are an expansion of Krsna, they are technically not one with Krsna's personality, each individual jiva-soul has their own unique personality.

The way Krsna controls all things, is He provides the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) with the facilities to carve their own pathways to heaven or hell, because of their choices. Both Krsna and the jiva-souls are independent with their own unique personality.

The individual jiva-souls are not one with Krsna but are independent thinking living entities who have their own sense of self and personality that makes them one in purpose.

Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the manifestation of Radha and Krsna in one Body where both experience each other's love for each other.

Infact, Krsna, Balarama, Radharani and Lord Caitanya are all the one personality of Krsna in different moods but only properly understood when one is advanced in their Krsna consciousness.

The claim that once reaching Vaikuntha the jiva-souls can never again fall down is not exactly true.

To claim those who enter Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana will never again fall down to the material creation, is only true for those who choose NOT to fall down.

In other words, if the jiva-souls want to leave the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, they certainly can. Therefore, entering the material world is ultimately the jiva-soul's choice, and Krsna does not interfere with that choice, even though He promised there is no return to the material creation once entering the spiritual atmosphere.

The fact is there IS a choice simple because Krsna allows it, the jiva-souuk8p80 93.75s can even reject Krsna and His promise in a "two-way" voluntary exchange of emotion.

The fact is, there is return IF the jiva-souls wants to return to the material creation Prabhupada tells us, it is their choice.

Acyutananda – "But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming there to the spiritual abodes, he never returns to the material worlds, he can return?"

Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he can return."

Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)

So, clearly those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha have not understood the variety of living entities in Vaikuntha of whom the jiva-souls are just one and Prabhupada's comments here.

As said above, only a very small minority of jiva-souls (less than 10%) choose to leave but not in the category of Visnu-tattvas who can never fall down because they are Krsna Himself playing another role in His own pastimes.

Many have not understood there are many different categories of living entities in Vrindavana who never fall down, such as the many Visnu-tattva personalities.

And for over 90% of jiva-souls, they also never fall down because they choose not to fall down.

Devotee - "Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana), there’s no possibility of falling down again?"

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it in again IF you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent." (CC, Adi-lila 7.108 San Francisco, Feb 18, 1967)

Sadly, there are a small minority who do not learn from the lesson of being in the material world, and they do return to the material world (less than 10% of jiva-souls do fall from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana)

Free will is eternal in the spiritual world and without having the free expression to choose to either forget Krsna, or remember Krsna, then the jiva-souls would have no independent personality or a sense of independent self.

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are eternally separate from Krsna's Personality who have their own unique character and personality who voluntarily contribute from their own unique independent abilities and talents that gives personality to their identity.

Without having the unique individual ability to voluntarily offer love as an independent PERSON, we are no better than dead stone.

The eternal constitution and original position of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) is fully explained by Krsna disguised as a brahmana as follows-

The Brāhmaṇa said - "My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world." (SB, 4th Canto Ch, 28 text 53)

Srila Prabhupada - "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

There was no beginning to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) existence, nor will there be an end as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains. The jiva-souls are eternal spiritual living PERSONS and can never be destroyed, terminated or extinguished, the jiva-souls are indestructible.

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG, Ch 2 text 12, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change." (BG, Ch 2 text 13, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed." (BG, Ch 2 text 14, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both." (BG, Ch 2 text 16, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul." (BG, Ch 2 text 17, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 19, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?" (BG, Ch 2 text 21, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." (BG, Ch 2 text 22, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind." (BG, Ch 2 text 23, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same." (BG, Ch 2 text 24, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body." (BG, Ch 2 text 25, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "One who has taken his birth is sure to die, and after death one is sure to take birth again. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament." (BG, Ch 2 text 27, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Some look on the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all." (BG, Ch 2 text 29, 1983 edition)

Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

Please read Srila Prabhupada's correct 1983 edition of Bhagavad Gita As It Is where Ch 2 Text 20 correctly explains the jiva-souls are beginningless and endless.^*^.

Sunday, July 23, 2023

Krsna never leaves the original Vṛndāvana in the Spiritual Sky. Also, no demons exist there, nor do any of the inhabitants experience separation from Kṛṣṇa there like they do in the Vrindavana in the material world, simply because Krsna NEVER leaves them.

The jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are eternal PERSONS, as a spiritual bodily form like Krsna's Body, whose perpetual permanent natural home is the spiritual world.

God (Krsna) is not ONLY an all-pervading consciousness who is even in the atom, no, Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, is also simultaneously an individual "PERSON" as an eternal spiritual bodily Form, who's Bodily rays ARE the Brahmajyoti.

Only Krsna has 64 qualities in full all the time because He is the original Supreme Lord.

Kṛṣṇa’s first expansion is Balarama from whom all Visnu-tattva expansions manifest however, all manifestions, including the jiva-souls, are beginningless and endless because they are eternally part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.

And for Kṛṣṇa to experience loving relations with a women, He divided Himself into two, and that is how Radharani appears, the paradox is Radharani is also eternal because Radharani is eternally part of Kṛṣṇa.

Kṛṣṇa as His original form NEVER leaves Vṛndāvana in the spiritual world. All of Krsna’s pastimes in the material creation, including killing demons, are carried out by Krsna's Visnu-tattva expansion, in the spiritual world no demons exist or are killed by Krsna and Balarama.

Srila Prabhupada - "The original Lord Kṛṣṇa never leaves Goloka Vṛndāvana. All the plenary expansions are one and the same Viṣṇu-tattva, and there is no difference in Their potency." (SB, Canto 3 Ch 1 Text 34)

Srila Prabhupada - "Kṛṣṇa is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Baladeva (Balarama) is Kṛṣṇa's immediate expansion. Because Kṛṣṇa NEVER leaves Vṛndāvana, all the forms of Kṛṣṇa that appear elsewhere are His expansions." (BG, As It Is Ch 10 Text 37)

Also, the intense separation Radharani and the gopis felt for Kṛṣṇa only happens in the facsimile Vrindavana in the material world because only there does Kṛṣṇa often leave their association but this is not so in the spiritual world (Vaikuntha).

The word "Vaikuntha" means "without anxiety" therefore how could there be demons there? And how could the gopis ever feel separation from Kṛṣṇa there? After all Krsna NEVER leaves Goloka Vrindavana.

Jayatīrtha - "If the original Kṛṣṇa is always in Vṛndāvana, then why do the gopīs and Rādhārāṇī feel separation from Him?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That is here, in this material world. In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa does not leave."

Jayatīrtha - "Oh."

Srila Prabhupada - "The human form is the full manifestation of the jiva-soul." (Melb, May 20, 1975)

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes, they are more covered in the material world, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are NOT in full manifestation of the jiva-soul. The human form is the full manifestation of the jiva-soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there the form one chooses is voluntary, some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 Text 1-4 Melb, May 20, 1975)

Srila Prabhupāda - "The impersonal conception of the Supreme is so detrimental to the path of devotional service that it is very difficult to associate with the stubborn nondevotees who always think in terms of material conceptions.

Impersonalists always think backwards.

They think that because there is form in matter, spirit should be formless; because in matter there is sleep, in spirit there cannot be sleep; and because the sleeping of the Deity is accepted in arcanā worship, the arcanā is māyā. All these thoughts are basically material. To think either positively or negatively is still thinking materially. Knowledge accepted from the superior source of the Vedas is the standard." (SB, Canto 3 Ch 9 text 21, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada - "Each "person" (jiva-soul) is eternal. Lord Krsna says that He existed as a person before the creation (agre) and will also exist after the annihilation, the Lord is a "person" eternally." (SB, Canto, 6 Ch 4 text 47, Purport)

The jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are eternal PERSONS as a spiritual bodily form like Krsnas Body, and whose eternal permanent home is the spiritual world.

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG, Ch 2 Text 12)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20 "corrected" 1983 edition)

After the annihilation of everything in the material world, the Supreme Lord remains always as sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, eternity, knowledge, bliss and form (Bs. 5.1).

Maha-Visnu (Krsna) remains in His original form, but since the other living entities (jiva-souls) have material bodies, that matter merges into matter, and the subtle form of the jiva-soul remains within the body of the Lord (Maha-Visnu).

The Lord does not sleep, but the ordinary living entities (jiva-souls) remain asleep in the Body of Maha-Visnu for 311 trillion, 40 billion years, until the next material creation and Brahmandas appear.

The fallen jiva-souls are still "outside" of the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets, and Goloka-Vrindavana because they are not qualified to return back home back to Godhead.

Their real home and spiritual bodily form eternally exists in the spiritual world of Goloka-Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha planets, therefore, being "outside" the spiritual world means they are "fallen" in either the temporary material world, merged as an individual dormant unit [spark] in the impersonal Brahmajyoti and therefore in the already fallen condition known as tatastha-sakti.

When "fall down" of the jiva-soul takes place, it means falling down from a "non-fallen" condition, and that non-fallen condition is with Krsna in Goloka Vrindavana, or with Visnu in the Vaikuntha planets.

Anything outside the spiritual world like entering the Body of Maha-Visnu, the material creation, the impersonal brahmajyoti and tatastha-sakti are ALL already fallen conditions.

As said above, entering the brahman effulgence (impersonal brahmajyoti), is an already "fallen condition" however, the jiva-souls can never eternally remain in that "fallen condition" in the impersonal brahmajyoti.

Eventually they are forced to leave thpoolere because the eternal nature of the jiva-souls is to be always "active," not inactive. So again they take birth in the material world.

Many of those "fallen jiva-souls in the impersonal brahmajyoti," have spent so long inactive there, they forget they originally fell from the spiritual world to the material world, then after suffering there for many life times, try and escape the material world's repeated painful cycle of birth and death, by entering that dormant (inactive) condition in the impersonal brahmajyoti.

Sadly, because they have spent so much vast time in the impersonal brahmajyoti (trillions of years being dormant), they foolishly believe it is their origin, forgetting they have NOT originated from the impersonal brahmajyoti but had previously fallen down from either the Vaikuntha planets, or Goloka-Vrindavana.

The opulence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead permanently remains as it is in the spiritual world; only in the material world does everything dissolved and decay and in need of constant maintenance.

Srila Prabhupada - "When the material body is annihilated, the jiva-soul remains in a subtle form, which later assumes another material body. This is true for the conditioned souls, but the Supreme Personality of Godhead remains eternally in His original consciousness and spiritual bodily form." (SB, Canto, 6 Ch 4 text 47, Purport)

Devotee - "I want to know exactly what is the form of the body. If the spirit soul (jiva-soul) is nonmaterial, what is the form?"

Devotee - "Śrīla Prabhupāda, you state that spirit soul has form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Devotee - "Otherwise, how is the material body grown to accommodate the spirit soul? Just like a shirt has no form, but when it's put on the body, it takes the shapes of the body. Does that mean that the jiva-soul has the shape of the body that is accommodating it?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, you have got body, shape, very minute shape, that we cannot see, we cannot measure. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, anumeyam. You cannot measure. What is that word used? Aprameyam. Aprameyam, you cannot measure but it has a form. What is the length and breadth of that form, that is not in your power to understand, not materially. If you have got spiritual power then you can measure it. And that measurement is also given in the śāstra. What is that? One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Hair is a very small point. And divide it into ten thousand parts. That one part is the measure, magnitude of the soul." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 16 text 24 Hawaii, Jan 20, 1974)

The jiva-souls natural home is in the spiritual energy with Krsna in Goloka Vrindavana as individual spiritual PERSONS like Krsna.

The jiva-souls are eternal PERSONS called the "marginal living entities" meaning they can be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy explained by Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your question about our relationship with Srimati Radharani, She is the internal energy, we are marginal energy. Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy; we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul). Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG, As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada – "The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals." (Lecture BG Ch 9 Text 4 Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)

Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.

This includes being the original cause of all Narayana/Visnu expansions from Goloka Vrindavana, who set up the perpetual unlimited Vaikuntha planets that surround Goloka-Vrindavana, collectively with Goloka-Vrindavana, taking up 75% of the Spiritual Sky.

And Maha-Visnu, Garbhodakashayi Visnu and Ksirodakasayi Visnu (Paramatma) build and maintain the material creation that takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky, which is the temporary (decomposing) material world.

Krsna is therefore the original source of Maha-Visnu who creates the material universes called Brahmandas that originate from His breathing and the pores of His skin as seen in photo below.

Furthermore, deep inside each Brahmanda material universe, there is a "secondary inner" enclosed universe where Maha-Visnu expands as Garbhodakashayi Visnu, from whom Lord Brahma appears and builds the many planetary systems in his material universe.

There are unlimited Brahmanda universes, each having a secondary universe inside of them meaning each has their own Garbhodakashayi Visnu and Lord Brahma.

In these "secondary material universes" created by Garbhodakashayi Visnu within each Brahmanda universe, Lord Brahma builds the planetary systems, in our universe there are 14 planetary systems.

In other material universes deep inside their Brahmanda universe, they have many more planetary systems than just fourteen.

Our secondary material universe inside our massive Brahmanda universe is one of the smallest.

The size of each Brahmanda and inner universe depends on how many heads Lord Brahma has, in our material universe he has four heads, while in other material universes Brahma may have 10, 20, 50, 100, 100,000, one million or 10 million. The workings of this material universe is beyond our comprehension.

There is only one Maha-Visnu but there are a unlimited number of Garbhodakashayi Visnus, Lord Brahmas and demigods (administrators within each material universe who are in charge of a particular field like ministers portfolios in the Government)..^^^..