Gauragopala Das ACBSP: The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) never lose their voluntary self expression of free will in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.

Srila Prabhupada - "Surrender BY your intelligence, but don't surrender your intelligence."(Letter to Bali Mardan 1974)

This means the individual jiva-souls in the spiritual world always voluntarily express themselves in their own unique way with offerings of personal contributions they offer to Krsna.

Free will can NEVER be "surrendered" because our choices define who we individually are as a contributing devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will, you want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna and become a flower, voluntarily, and one can change from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melbourne, May 20, 1975)

In the spiritual world all relationships with Krsna are equally blissful to each other, just like one may like a carnation flower while others may choose to like a rose flower.

Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have independence, you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence. If you persist that "I must enjoy independently," God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position, if you persist, God sanctions. And you can come here and enjoy." (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)

The individual jiva-souls are independent living entities in the spiritual worlds and have their own unique personality and sense of self that is separate from Krsna's Personality, yet are simultaneously dependent on Krsna as His parts and parcels.

The reason why Krsna gives the jiva-souls their independence and free will is so they can choose for themselves how to serve Him in their own unique personal way, or even reject Him if they choose.

This also means the jiva-souls can always contribute their own unique offerings out of unconditional personal love, without the need of any pressure or force from Krsna.

Real love or service can only exist when free will allows the jiva-souls to voluntarily participate in loving devotional exchanges and contribute to the relationship with Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - ''Love means you take and you also give. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is not love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only by one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then there is love." (Lecture on SB Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''The impersonalist philosophy is oneness. So how can there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience? Love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He's so lover of you that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture on SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

Surrender to Krsna in the spiritual world does not mean giving up your free will and allowing Krsna to control all your every actions, deeds, words and thoughts.

No, the jiva-souls in the spiritual world are not programmed mindless drones who only obey and never contribute to the relationship with Krsna in their own unique way by thinking for themselves.

The jiva-souls can never lose their free will in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, or the individual ability of self-expression of offering their own personal contributions to Krsna that are unique to each individual jiva-soul.

Only by having free will can genuine loving exchanges and reciprocation take place, and without free will the jiva-souls are no better than dead stone Prabhupada has warned us.

Furthermore, Krsna never interferes with the free will of the jiva-souls because if He did and never allowed them to have the freedom to make their own choices in the spiritual world, then that means loving exchanges and voluntarily reciprocation with Krsna can never exist.

If one is forced to worship Krsna or Visnu then that is not love, it is slavery which is impersonalism.

The impersonal version of God's Kingdom of Goloka-Vrindavana or the Vaikuntha Planets, where the jiva-souls are forced to surrender their free will and only do what they are told to do, allowing their bogus God (Krsna) to take over their every actions, thoughts and deeds, is spiritual suicide that makes the jiva-souls no better than dead stone as Prabhupada explains.

Having genuine free will on the other hand, allows the jiva-souls to be themselves, which means being an independent unique contributing servant of Krsna, who always voluntarily chooses what to offer to Krsna and how they want to serve Krsna.

Voluntary service is the bases of real surrender in Goloka Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha planets (the spiritual worlds) which are the permanent eternal home and origin of all the marginal living entities (jiva-souls).

The jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana are forever voluntarily expanding the expression of their unique individuality with an increasing variety of personal devotional offerings based on free will, it is never a nonsense one-sided master/slave relationship with Krsna as Prabhupada explains.

Krsna does not control the surrendered jiva-souls by force like a puppet master controls every movement of his puppets with the manipulations of strings, denying self-expression, individual contributions and voluntary service.

However, Krsna does control His pure devotees with love (His service to them) because the jiva-souls allows this deep reciprocation out of their unconditional love for Him (always wanting to serve Krsna and be with Him)

Srila Prabhupada - "Krsna does not want to become a lover by force, from the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; no, that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual jiva-souls we are all originally Kṛṣṇa conscious entities, but due to our association with matter since time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by material atmosphere.

When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Harā, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity.

This transcendental vibration of chanting-

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare

This is the sublime method for reviving our Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

As living spiritual souls we are all originally Kṛṣṇa conscious entities, but due to our association with matter since time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by material atmosphere.

In this polluted concept of live, we are all trying to exploit the resources of material nature, but actually we are becoming more and more entangled in her complexities.

This illusion is called māyā, or hard struggle for existence over the stringent laws of material nature. This illusory struggle against the material nature can at once be stopped by revival of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. This consciousness is the original energy of the living entity. When we hear the transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived. And the process is recommended by authorities for this age.

By practical experience also, we can perceive that by chanting this mahā-mantra, or the great chanting for deliverance, one can at once feel transcendental ecstasy from the spiritual stratum.

When one is factually on the plane of spiritual understanding, surpassing the stages of sense, mind and intelligence, one is situated on the transcendental plane.

This chanting of-

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

is directly enacted from the spiritual platform, surpassing all lower states of consciousness namely sensual, mental and intellectual.

There is no need of understanding the language of the mantra, nor is there any need of mental speculation nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this mahā-mantra.

It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such, anyone can take part in this transcendental sound vibration, without any previous qualification, and dance in ecstasy. We have seen it practically.

Even a child can take part in the chanting, or even a dog can take part in it.

The chanting should be heard, however, from the lips of a pure devotee of the Lord, so that immediate effect can be achieved.

As far as possible, chanting from the lips of a nondevotee should be avoided, as much as milk touched by the lips of a serpent causes poisonous effect.

The word Harā is a form of addressing the energy of the Lord. Both Kṛṣṇa and Rāma are forms of addressing directly the Lord, and they mean the highest pleasure, eternal. Harā is the supreme pleasure potency of the Lord.

This potency, when addressed as Hare, helps us in reaching the Supreme Lord.

The material energy, called mayā, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we are also the marginal potency of the Lord.

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are described as a superior energy than matter.

When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation.

But when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Harā, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity.

The three words, namely Harā, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma, are transcendental seeds of the mahā-mantra, and the chanting is a spiritual call for the Lord and His internal energy, Harā, for giving protection to the conditioned soul.

The chanting is exactly like a genuine cry by the child for the mother. Mother Harā helps in achieving the grace of the supreme father, Hari, or Kṛṣṇa, and the Lord reveals Himself to such a sincere devotee.

No other means, therefore, of spiritual realization is as effective in this age, as chanting the mahā-mantra." (Purport to Hare Krsna Mantra, the cover of the "Happening Record Album" recorded Dec 1966 New York City, USA)

Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down."

Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving."

Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire."

Devotee – "In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he insists, "Oh, I must go. I must go." All right, you go at your risk and suffer. What can be done? So because you are son of God you have acquired the quality of your father so God does not interfere with your independence (free will)." (Lecture Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974).

Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will if I can act only one sided? That means I have no free will. Because we CAN act wrongly (sometimes), that means we have free will." (Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes).

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) never lose their free will because they are eternal as Bhagavad Gita explains-

Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 Text 12 and 20 confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created and have no origin or end.

The stage for the jiva-souls is infinity, meaning there is no birth for the jiva-souls or no death.

Bhagavad Gita As It Is "1983 corrected edition", Chapter 2 text 20-

"For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG Ch 2 text 20)

And in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is (2.12)-

"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG 2.12)

Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

Free will has nothing to do with the material body, free will is a symptom of the eternal jiva-soul.

Free will is the constitutional makeup of the pure jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana where nothing material exists, including decaying material bodily vessels.

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. Man is made after the shape of God. I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; so they become flower there. If I want that, to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, then he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 Melbourne, May 20, 1975)

Krsna never interferes with the jiva-soul's free will, even when they choose to reject Him.

Free will can NEVER be "surrendered" because our choices define who we individually are as a contributing devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG As It Is, Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)

It is not Maya and her material energy causing the jiva-souls to leave or fall down from Vaikuntha because there is no material nature (Maya) in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana that forces the jiva-soul to leave Krsna.

Maya's temptation and material energy do not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana however, free will DOES always exist there.

Srila Prabhupada - ''The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness.Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Happening record album New York Dec 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna? I immediately fall down." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada – ''Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from, these spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (BG, As It Is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana) When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krsna he is liberated." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Acyutananda - ''But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming from the material temporary world to the spiritual world, he never returns to the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "But if he likes, he can return."

Acyutananda - "He can return?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Morning Walk, Feb 19, 1976, Mayapur)

Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we could fall down in the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France).

Syamasundara - "Can we predict that returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however, some do come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)*^^*