Gauragopala Das ACBSP: Free will only has meaning when the jiva-souls can express themselves in a "two-sided" voluntary relationship with Kṛṣṇa and Visnu.

Voluntary association of servitude in the Kingdom of God (Krsna and Visnu) is only fully possibly achieved when "two" are involved in loving reciprocal exchanges nurtured and encouraged by Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - "In the spiritual world one's association with the Lord is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything and any form they choose. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1.1-4 - Melb, May 20, 1975)

In Goloka-Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha planets, loving devotional service is never a one-way or one-sided affair, there is always loving exchanges and reciprocation between Visnu and Krsna, with Their devotees.

Genuine loving exchanges or service is always expressed in a reciprocal "two-way" voluntary exchange in God's (Krsna or Visnu's) Kingdom.

In Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana personal voluntary expressions of loving exchanges are always encouraged by Krsna in His relationship with the jiva-souls.

This "two-way" relationship adds flavour, variety and mystery to the association.

This means the Kingdom of God is not a "one-sided dictatorial" dominating domain devoid of free will and personal contributions that would only deny personal unique offerings to God (Krsna or Visnu), meant to expand, enrich and flavour the relationship.

Voluntary association with Krsna or Visnu in His Kingdom can only be realized in a loving way of personal exchanges and never forced with demands of obedience under the heading of so called surrender.

As said above, true loving relations are only achieved when "two" are involved in reciprocal exchanges nurtured and encouraged by Krsna.

It is important to understand that love or service is NEVER a one-sided affiliate of total supremacy or preeminence.

Genuine loving relationships, surrender and service is based on voluntary reciprocal exhanges and contributions between two, it can never be possible with just one!

This means the individual jiva-souĺs also have their right of voluntary contributions too, or can even reject Krsna if they choose.

Free will only has meaning when the jiva-souls can express themselves in a voluntary "two-sided" affair.

As soon as force and bullying is applied, like what some experienced in the early years, the relationships with those people becomes meaningless and useless, quickly you realize they were never your friend to begin with.

And yes, others will quickly point out that those who are bullied often become bullies too as we have seen.

Loving reciprocation is only possible on a "two-way street" between two, with each respectfully contributing to the relationship's expansion of increasing each others Krsna consciousness.

The word reciprocation only has meaning when there are two involved, not one!

As said above, this means the individual jiva-souls can reject Krsna if they choose, which in a sense proves that "free will" does truly exist.

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will." (Philosophy Discussions with Rene Descartes and Hayagriva (Honolulu/Los Angeles, May/June 1976)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force." (Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Having free will is fundamentally the eternal constitutional right of every marginal living entity or jiva-soul, and the foundation for their relationship with Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will!" (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, Oh, this material world is very nice, yes, Kṛṣṇa says, yes, you go otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will and Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives the opportunity - 'All right, you enjoy like this.' It is free will." (Morning Walk May 13, 1973, LA)

Devotee – "In Srimad Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here? Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence, your free will. That is force, in Bengali it is said, if you catch one girl or boy and demand you love me, you love me, you love me, is that love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you! Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, at the threat of revolver, you love me otherwise I shall kill you! That is not love; that is threatening, love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love, not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C)

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from them, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No, it is not good, that is not love, that is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and I don't offer anything in return, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or executed only by one, there must be another one, there must be two. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, then there is love." (SB Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness, so how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back, that is Kṛṣṇa's attempt, please, My dear boy or girl, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

Devotee – "Is the original body of the jiva-soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form, God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible, is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first] Yes, they are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; so they become flower there. If I want that, to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna as flower, voluntarily, and he can change from flower to human body, that is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1.1-4 - Melb, May 20, 1975)

All individual personal contributions from the jiva-souls are forever expanding due to their unique eternal independent constitutional quality of self expression in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

This allows the jiva-souls to always make their own voluntary offerings to Krsna if they choose that forever increase and expand their loving emotions in healthy two-way exchange with Krsna.

We must never forget that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, if we properly understand this, then we will understand the following discussion that everything comes from Krsna including free will-

Swedish man - "Is there free will?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, just like you are sitting here, if you don’t like, you can go away. That’s your free will. There is free will, we are part and parcel of God, therefore we have got minute quantity of freedom." (Lecture Stockholm Sweden, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Every individual jiva-soul is awarded a portion of independence because each is part and parcel of God. Thus also has the quality of independence, but in minute quantity. That is his individuality."

Syamasundara dasa - "Is Krsna within each atom as an individual entity different from every other entity?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, Krsna (as Visnu) is there, He is always an individual. There are varieties of atoms and sometimes they are combined together each with their own Visnu."

Syamasundara dasa - "How is each Krsna different? How is it He is an individual in each of the atoms?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Why do you think He not an individual? Krsna is always an individual, He is always a person, the Supreme Person, and He can expand Himself innumerably."

Syamasundara dasa - "So Paramatma (Visnu) is a "Person?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, every expansion is an individual Person. We are all atomic expansions of Krsna, and we are all individual persons. Paramatma is another expansion, but that is a different kind of expansion."

Syamasundara dasa - "Are the jiva-souls also individual persons?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, if he were not a person, then how would you account for the differences? We are all different persons. You may agree with my opinion or not, but in any case you are an individual. Krsna also is an individual. Nityo nityanam. There are innumerable individual souls, but He is the Supreme lndividual Person."

Syamasundara dasa - "So even within material atom there is spiritual life, a spiritual force?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, force means spiritual force."

Syamasundara dasa - "But even within the dead body there are forces. There is the force of decomposition and decay."

Srila Prabhupada - "Krsna is within the atom, and the body is a combination of so many atoms; therefore the force for creating other living entities is also there even in the process of decomposition. When the individual jiva-soul's force is stopped within a particular material body, we call that body a dead body. Still, Krsna's force is there because the material body is a combination of atoms.

The ultimate desire is to attain Krsna's abode. If you take it in that way, Krsna is within every atom, and therefore Krsna wants whatever is to be. Therefore He wills that these two elements become one, and therefore the molecules combine to create water, or whatever. Thus there is a creation, and again there is another creation, and so on. In any case, the ultimate brain governing all creation is Krsna."

Syamasundara dasa - "Does the individual jiva-souls have a little independence to choose?"

Srila Prabhupada - "No (not without the sanction of Krsna) Bhagavad-Gita states that when the individual jivs-soul wants to act, Krsna gives the orders. Man proposes, and God disposes."

Syamasundara dasa - "So we have no free will?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not without the sanction of Krsna. Without Him, we cannot do anything. Therefore He is the ultimate cause."

Syamasundara dasa - "But I thought you have been saying that we have a little independence."

Srila Prabhupada - "We have the independence in the sense that we may deny or affirm, but unless Krsna gives sanctions, we cannot do anything." (Dialectical Spiritualism A Vedic View of Western Philosophy)

This simply confirms everything comes from Krsna and what ever the jiva-souls do must be sanctioned by Krsna, including free will because Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.

However, in most instances Krsna will always sanctions free will because without free will the jiva-souls could never voluntary choose to contribute as an independent thinking individual in their relationship with Krsna in a two-way exchange.

So without "free will" the spiritual worlds would be an impersonal mindless place no better than dead stone!

Paramahaṁsa -"So we can come to the spiritual world and return?"

Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Paramahaṁsa - "Fall down?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, as soon as we try, Oh, this material world is very nice, yes Kṛṣṇa says, yes, you go and enjoy, otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will." (May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Bali Mardana - "An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that example of free will?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking about Kṛṣṇa?Kṛṣṇa says, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām: (BG 9.14)

'Always chanting about Me is the mahātmā.'

Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14).

Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: (BG 9.13)

Mahātmā, those who are devotee, they are not under these material influence. If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa." (Morning Walk, Jan 22, 1974, Hawaii)

It is very important to understand that the individual jiva-souls are all "PERSONS," each with their own unique ability to make their own individual voluntary contributions expressed fully in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

For loving service to truly exist, each jiva-soul must be able to express their free will by making their own choices, their own decisions, even if it means rejecting Krsna, otherwise there can be no question of being able to voluntarily express themselves as an individual and experience loving exchanges and service.

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

This quality of free will is part and parcel of the jiva-soul's marginal constitution that allows them to be an independent free thinking expansion of the Krsna.

Therefore being a marginal living entity or jiva-soul means having "free will."

As said above, Krsna allows this freedom the jiva-souls have because without free will loving exchanges, personal offerings and a two-way reciprocal relationship could never exist!!

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return to the material atmosphere. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that." (Mayapur, India, Feb, 19, 1976)

Having free will is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) that is eternally part and parcel of their individual character and personality in the spiritual worlds.

This means the jiva-souls can choose to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana if they choose, at anytime, it is nonsense to claim the jiva-souls can never again fall down once in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.

This is because free will always allows the choice to choose, and without the ability to voluntarily choose, there is no question of loving exchanges.

So the choice to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana is possible because Krsna allows a "two-way relationship" where one can accept or reject Krsna if they choose. It is their choice.

It is silly sentimental nonsense to claim "not even the leaves fall down from Vaikuntha."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing,m is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Philosophy Discussions with Rene Descartes and Hayagriva (Honolulu/Los Angeles, May/June 1976)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that free will means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence; that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Some wrongly claim there are two types of jiva-souls-

1 - One who stays in the Vaikuṇṭha and Goloka Vṛndāvana and never has a choice to go to the material creation (nitya-siddha)

2 - And the other in the material creation (nitya-baddha) who can also be dormant (inactive) in the impersonal Brahmajyoti. But can enter the Spiritual worlds too, but once there can never fall down, so they claim.

Such division of the jiva-soul is bogus nonsense.

There is only ONE type of jiva-soul, who has "two-sides" to their individual personality, nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) and nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned)

So where is the jiva-soul's original home? And from where are they all coming from?

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

As said above there are no two types of the jiva-tattvas (jiva-souls), there is only "ONE" type of jiva-soul (nitya-siddha) who can be either nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned) or nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)

Srila Prabhupada – "The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva-soul is always called the marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world." (Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968)

So lets be clear, there are not two different types jiva-souls, one being nitya-siddha or eternally situated in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, and the other being nitya-baddha, or eternally conditioned in the material world, or dormant (inactive) in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.

This point is emphasised here, there are only "one kind of jiva-souls" who are ALL originally "nitya-siddha" (eternally Krsna conscious), but can also become nitya-baddha (conditioned and fallen in the material world, or dormant (inactive) in the impersonal Brahmajyoti)

So there is only one category of jiva-soul that can be either (by choice) nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) or nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha." (CC lecture, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha." (NY City, Lecture on CC, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them to their original position. It is a difficult task." (London BG, 13-14, July 14, 1973)

Most marginal living entities (jiva-souls), more than 90%, voluntarily choose to NEVER fall down from the spiritual worlds of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana and foolishly enter the mundane decaying material universes.

In other words most jiva-souls "choose" to never misuse their free will.

Dr. John Mize – "Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"

Srila Prabhupada – "No, majority, 90%, they are always good; they never fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the less than 10%?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, the whole material world all the living entities they are confined to a material body. Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population is outside the prison house. Similarly, the majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient."

Dr. John Mize – "Are more souls falling all the time?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independenc. Everyone is not liking to misuse their independence. The same example, just like a government constructing a city and constructs a prison house because the government knows that somebody will be a criminal. So, their shelter must also be constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent per cent population will be criminal, but the government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise, why do they construct a prison house also? One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing", Government knows, there will be criminal. So, if the ordinary government can know, why God can not know also, Because there is tendency."

Dr. John Mize – "The origin of that tendency is to fall from Goloka?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes."

Dr. John Mize – "From where does that tendency come?"

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence; that tendency is always there. If you make it one way only, that you cannot fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore, Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (BG lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)×**×.