Wednesday, June 8, 2022

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

It is very important to understand that the individual jiva-souls are eternal persons each with their own unique bodily form that can change in the Spiritual world according to pastime.

This means each individual jiva-soul (marginal living entity) has their own personality separate from Krsna's Personality, and the free will to make their own decisions to stay in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, or leave.

The eternal spiritual bodily form is- 

sat, 

cit, 

ananda, 

vigraha.

These word's means- 

eternity, 

knowledge, 

bliss, 

form.

Fortunately, over 90% of jiva-souls choose to stay even though they can choose to leave if they want. But sadly almost 10% do choose to leave and enter the material creation via the dreams of Maha-Visnu.

The jiva-soul's voluntary contributions are eternally expressed fully in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

In the Spiritual worlds they are never forced to surrender to Krsna or do anything they choose not to do. 

For loving service to truly each individual jiva-soul must be able to express their free will by making their own choices, their own decisions, even if it means rejecting Krsna, otherwise there can be no question of being able to voluntarily express themselves as an individual and experience loving exchanges and service."

This quality of free will is part and parcel of the jiva-soul's marginal constitution that allows them to be an independent free thinking expansion of the Krsna. 

Therefore the marginal living entity (jiva-soul) also means having free will that is included when describing the qualities of the individual jiva-souls. 

As said above, Krsna allows this freedom the jiva-souls have because without free will loving exchanges, personal offerings and a two-way reciprocal relationship could never exist.

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return to the material atmosphere. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that." (Mayapur, February 19, 1976)

Having free will is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) that is eternally part and parcel of their individual character and personality in the spiritual worlds.

This means the jiva-souls can choose to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana if they choose, at anytime, it is nonsense to claim the jiva-souls can never again fall down once in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.

This is because free will always allows the jiva-souls to choose because without the ability to voluntarily choose for themselves, there can be no question of loving exchanges and personal contributions.

So the choice to even leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana is possible because Krsna allows a two-way relationship where one can accept or reject Krsna if they choose.

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will, unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing is bad but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Talk with Rene Descartes)

Nitya-siddha means eternally liberated and nitya-baddha means eternally conditioned.

When one is in their original position as "nitya-siddha", that is their eternal natural position experiencing their full potential as "nitya-siddha" 

However, the jiva-souls can fall out of that "eternally liberated" position if they choose and become nitya-baddha (the conditioned state).

When the jiva-souls fall from the spiritual worlds of Vaikuṇṭha and Goloka Vṛndāvana, they enter the material creation as "nitya-baddha" which is the none Krsna conscious state.

This is why it is also called nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned)

So clearly there is only one classification of jiva-souls, not two as some believe. 

Each individual jiva-soul has "two-sides" to their personality, they can either be nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned), or nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)

In this way the jiva-souls can choose for themselves to be with Krsna, or reject Krsna.

This is because each jiva-soul, as part of their spiritual constitutional make-up, has free will.

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence; that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Some wrongly claim there are two types of jiva-souls- 

1 - One who stays in the Vaikuṇṭha and Goloka Vṛndāvana and never has a choice  to go to the material creation (nitya-siddha)

2 - And the other in the material creation (nitya-baddha) who can also be dormant (inactive) in the impersonal Brahmajyoti. But can enter the Spiritual worlds too, but once there can never fall down, so they claim. 

Such impersonal division of the jiva-soul is bogus nonsense.

There is only one category of jiva-soul who has two-sides to their individual personality, they can be nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) or nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned) 

The jiva-soul's original position is Nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)

So where is the jiva-soul's original home? And from where are they all coming from?

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

As said above there is only one category of the jiva-souls that can be either nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned) or nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) 

Srila Prabhupada – "The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva-soul is always called the marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world." (Letter to Rayarama, December 2, 1968)

This point is emphasised here to make it clear only one kind of jiva-soul exists and due to having free will, can choose to be either nitya-siddha or nitya-baddha.

As said above, there is only one category of jiva-soul that can be either (by choice) nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) or nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned)or 

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "There are two kinds of marginal living entities: nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha." (CC lecture, July 13, 1976) 

Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha." (New York Lecture on Caitanya Caritamrta, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them to their original position. It is a difficult task." (London lecture on Bhagavad-Gita 13-14, July 14, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "There are three kinds of liberated persons. They are called 1) sadhan siddha, 2) kripa siddha, and 3) nitya siddha. When one is actually on the siddha platform there is no such distinction as to who is sadhan, kripa, or nitya siddha. When one is siddha, there is no distinction what is what. Just like when the river water glides down to the Atlantic Ocean nobody can distinguish which portion was the Hudson River or some other river". (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "Nitya-baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahma down to a small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddha. Anyone who is in this material world they are nitya baddha". (Lecture on Bhagavad-Gita 13-14, July 14, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Srila Prabhupada – ''Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka (Goloka Vrindavana), does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa Prabhu, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new souls. New and old are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth how there can be new soul." (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence." (Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "But his relationship with Krsna is never lost, simply forgotten by the influence of maya social 78.125 ò it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new.'' (Letter to Jagadisa 02/27/1970)

Krsna (God) is more inclined to help those who first do everything they can to help themselves find a spiritual master to teach them spiritual life.

If one is honest with themselves, Krsna sends the Guru (spiritual teacher) who will guide them out of the material creation and return back home, back to Godhead to be with Krsna.

Only then will Krsna help you when He sees you are trying your very hardest to do everything you can to help yourself, only then will Krsna send you a spiritual teacher. 

Srila Prabhupada - "In all the śāstras [scriptures] the guru is described to be as good as God, but the guru never says, ‘I am God.’ The disciple’s duty is to offer respect to the guru just as he offers respect to God, but the guru never thinks, ‘My disciples are offering me the same respect they offer to God; therefore I have become God.’ As soon as he thinks like this, he becomes a dog." (From the Book, Science of realization)

Loving exchanges have to exist to enrich and expand one's relationship with Krsna. 

Surrender to Krsna's pure devotees does not mean you lose your free will, independent  thini and individuality to be qualified to enter the spiritual world, no, such bogus surrender is impersonalism.  

The marginal living entity (jiva-soul) has always had freedom (free will) therefore, there is no question of the marginal living entity ever not having free will because free will in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana is perpetually part and parcel of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) make up.

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) originate from Goloka-Vrindavana and not the Impersonal Brahman as Prabhupada teaches.

Originally all jiva-souls are nitya-siddha because they all come from Goloka-Vrindavana.

Only when they enter the material creation and the impersonal brahman do they then become nitya-baddha. Therefore nitya-siddha can become a nitya-baddhas and nitya-baddhas can AGAIN become nitya-siddha.

No jiva-souls originates from the impersonal Brahmajyoti.  

Srila Prabhupada - ''Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness." (Letter to Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

The following Conversation took place in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples.

Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that "Don’t fall down."

Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving."

Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little free will. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is desire."

Devotee – "In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he insists, Oh, I must go. I must go." "All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?" Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that "I must go and enjoy independently," so God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy." (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)

Question - Is there a place in the Spiritual World from where we can never fall down from?"

Answer - No, it is not based on a place where you can never fall down from that keeps you in Vaikuntha, it does not work that way because of free will, which means there is always choice. 

If you were forced to stay there then how can there be love? 

The choice to leave or stay must always be with the jiva-souls too.

So many who consider themselves advanced devotees of God cannot understand what free will really means, they sentimentally claim "not even the leaves can fall down from Vaikuntha."

It is nonsense to claim the jiva-souls can ever again fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana because thay have their own free will and can make their own decisions.

Remaining in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana eternally is based on what the jiva-soul's want to do as a unique individual, it is their choice to say or go not Krsnas as explained above otherwise there is no meaning to having free will.

If Krsna forced His will on the jiva-souls then He destroys their independence, free will and ability to voluntarily express themselves in their own unique way, allowing themselves to choose where they want to be even if returning to the material creation.

In other words, the jiva-souls also have a choice to become a servant of the Lord or can reject Him if they want, even in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, only sentimental fools polluted by impersonalism cannot understand this.

The jiva-souls never lose their unique ability of free will and independent self expression, where one is personally always aware they can choose how to selflessly serve Krsna in their own unique way as the loving servant of the servant of Krsna.

The fact that one does not again fall from Krsna's personal Kingdom is the jiva-soul's responsibility too and not just only Krsnas.

It is the jiva-soul's choice as well, it is their free will to choose and no one else can choose for them including Krsna.

However, 90% of all jiva-souls do not fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana because they choose not to.

That choice to stay in Vaikuntha or leave is always with the marginal living entities or jiva-souls.

The jiva-souls or marginal living entities have 78.125% of Krsna's quantities or 50 of Krsna's  64 attributes which puts them in the realm of having independence, identity, personality, individuality and the ability to choose. This means the jiva-souls have the ability to agree or not agree with Krsna. 

Their individuality allows the jiva-souls the right to choose Krsna or choose to be separate from Krsna, this is the meaning of free will.

Remember, Maya and the material energy do not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, so Maya is unknown to the jiva-souls in the spiritual worlds.

However, free will and independence allows the jiva-souls to experience a unique sense of individuality with the ability to express oneself in their own way. 

All these qualities are the constitutional makeup of each jiva-soul in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana. 

And if all those abilities are taken away, then the jiva-souls lose the ability to give and accept love and become no better than dead stone.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no ''free will, "then you are a stone. The stone has no "free will." Do you want to be stone? Then, you must have "free will!" But don't misuse your ''free will." But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence." (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)

No one forces the jiva-souls to stay in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, that choice 

For loving exchanges to truly exist with the jiva-soul, they must have the the right to express themselves and choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at anytime, therefore returning there is not necessarily permanent.

Syamasundara - "But can we predict that the process (returning back home back to Godhead) will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners." 

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence and free will. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee  "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no question of permanent because he has got independence, he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back. but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)

The jiva-souls have 78.125% of Krsna's qualities [50 of His 64 attributes], they are minor expansions of Krsna endowed with individuality that allows them to experience an independent personal sense of self separate from Krsna. 

This allows the jiva-souls to make their own decisions and choices. Therefore, Krsna does not interfere with the jiva-soul's free will because it is part of the eternal constitution of all jiva-souls.

Krsna never at any point did not give freedom or free will to the marginal living entities (jiva-soul) because they have always had free will in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana without beginning or end. 

Free will allows the jiva-souls to experience individuality, loving reciprocation, independent service, and be responsible for their actions.

This however does not means all jiva-soul's are independent from Krsna's control of all things, that is not possible. 

At all time the jiva-souls are always dependent on Krsna or His expansions, even as independent individuals because Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.

Therefore the jiva-souls always remain independent living entities, but always simultaneously depend on Krsna and His expansions in both the spiritual worlds and material worlds.

The jiva-souls are never fully independent because Krsna owns everything.

So even though the jiva-souls are an expansion of Krsna, the jiva-souls are not one with Krsna in personality. 

Both are independent with their own unique personality.

The individual jiva-souls are not one with Krsna but are independent thinking living entities with their own sense of self and personality that makes them one in purpose. 

Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the manifestation of Radha and Krsna in one Body where both experience each other's love for each other. 

Infact, Krsna, Balarama, Radharani and Lord Caitanya are all the one personality, are all Visnu-tattvas originating from Krsna.

However a small minority of jiva-soul's (independent souls who have 78.125% of Krsna's qualities which is have 50 of Krsna's 64 attributes) can choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavan if they like, regardless of how some scholars, sages, devotees have interpreted Vedic texts like Srimad Bhagavatam (Bhagavat Purana).

Their claim that once reaching Vaikuntha the jiva-soul never fall down is not fully correct. 

Therefore, to say those who enter Vaikuntha will never again fall down is only true for those who choose not to fall down.

In other words, if the jiva-soul wants to leave they certainly can. 

Going to the material worlds is ultimately the jiva-soul's choice and Krsna does not interfere, even though He has promised there is no return to the material creation once entering the Spiritual atmosphere.

The fact, there is return if the jiva-souls wants to return to the material creation Prabhupada tells us, it is their choice too. 

Acyutananda – "But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, “Once coming there to the Spiritual abodes, he never returns, he can return?"

Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he can return."

Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976)

For those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha have not understood the variety of living entities in Vaikuntha of whom the jiva-souls are just one.

It is only a very small minority of jiva-souls who choose to leave and not in the category of Visnu-tattvas who never fall down because they are Krsna Himself playing another role in His own pastimes.

Many have not understood there are many different categories of living entities in Vrindavana who never fall down, such as the many categories of "sakti-tattvas" who are not all jiva-souls but Visnu-tattva personalities.

Many are direct expansions of Krsna with most of His qualities, like Visnu-tattva who have 93.75% of Krsna's qualities, which is having 60 of Krsna's 64 attributes).

Of course such Visnu-tattva expansions never fall down because they are Krsna experiencing Himself in another role, like in a play.

So for them, choice is exactly the same as Krsna's choice. And for over 90% of jiva-souls who have the ability to choose, they also never fall down because they choose not to fall down.

Devotee - "Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana), there’s no possibility of falling down again?"

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it in again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent." (CC, Adi-lila 7.108-San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

We must never forget that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, if we properly understand this, then we will understand the following discussion that everything comes from Krsna including free will-

Swedish man - ''Is there free will?''

Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes, just like you are sitting here. If you don’t like, you can go away. That’s your free will. There is free will, we are part and parcel of God, therefore we have got minute quantity of freedom." (Temple lecture Stockholm Sweden)

Srila Prabhupada - ''Every individual jiva-soul is awarded a portion of independence because each is part and parcel of God. Thus also has the quality of independence, but in minute quantity. That is his individuality.'' 

Syamasundara dasa - ''Is Krsna within each atom as an individual entity different from every other entity?

Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes, Krsna (as Visnu) is there, He is always an individual. There are varieties of atoms and sometimes they are combined together each with their own Visnu."

Syamasundara dasa - ''How is each Krsna different? How is it He is an individual in each of the atoms?"

Srila Prabhupada - ''Why do you think He not an individual? Krsna is always an individual, He is always a person, the Supreme Person, and He can expand Himself innumerably."

Syamasundara dasa - ''So Paramatma (Visnu) is a "Person?"

Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes, every expansion is an individual Person. We are all atomic expansions of Krsna, and we are all individual persons. Paramatma is another expansion, but that is a different kind of expansion."

Syamasundara dasa - ''Are the jiva-souls also individual persons?"

Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes, if he were not a person, then how would you account for the differences? We are all different persons. You may agree with my opinion or not, but in any case you are an individual. Krsna also is an individual. Nityo nityanam. There are innumerable individual souls, but He is the Supreme lndividual Person."

Syamasundara dasa - ''So even within material atom there is spiritual life, a spiritual force?"

Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes, force means spiritual force."

Syamasundara dasa - ''But even within the dead body there are forces. There is the force of decomposition and decay."

Srila Prabhupada - ''Krsna is within the atom, and the body is a combination of so many atoms; therefore the force for creating other living entities is also there even in the process of decomposition. When the individual jiva-soul's force is stopped within a particular material body, we call that body a dead body. Still, Krsna's force is there because the material body is a combination of atoms. 

The ultimate desire is to attain Krsna's abode. If you take it in that way, Krsna is within every atom, and therefore Krsna wants whatever is to be. Therefore He wills that these two elements become one, and therefore the molecules combine to create water, or whatever. Thus there is a creation, and again there is another creation, and so on. In any case, the ultimate brain governing all creation is Krsna."

Syamasundara dasa - ''Does the individual jiva-souls have a little independence to choose?"

Srila Prabhupada - ''No (not without the sanction of Krsna) Bhagavad-Gita states that when the individual jivs-soul wants to act, Krsna gives the orders. Man proposes, and God disposes."

Syamasundara dasa - ''So we have no free will?"

Srila Prabhupada - ''Not without the sanction of Krsna. Without Him, we cannot do anything. Therefore He is the ultimate cause."

Syamasundara dasa - ''But I thought you have been saying that we have a little independence."

Srila Prabhupada - ''We have the independence in the sense that we may deny or affirm, but unless Krsna gives sanctions, we cannot do anything." (Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy)

This simply confirms everything comes from Krsna and what ever the jiva-souls do must be sanctioned by Krsna, including free will because Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.

However, in most instances Krsna will always sanctions free will because without free will the jiva-souls could never voluntary choose to contribute as an independent thinking individual in their relationship with Krsna in a two-way exchange.

So without free will the spiritual worlds would be an impersonal stagnant unproductive place no better than dead stone! 

Paramahaṁsa -''So we can come to the spiritual world and return?''

Srila Prabhupāda -''Yes."

Paramahaṁsa - ''Fall down?''

Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes, as soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice, Kṛṣṇa says, yes, you go and enjoy, otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Bali Mardana - ''An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that example of free will?''

Srila Prabhupāda - ''Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking about Kṛṣṇa?" (Morning Walk - January 22, 1974, Hawaii)

There will always be a very small minority of only the jiva-souls who misuse their free will and leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.

Free will is eternal in the spiritual worlds, without having the choice to either forget or remember Krsna, then we would have no independent personality separate from Krsna's Personality and no ability to voluntarily offer love, we would be like dead stone or machines in a factory.

The eternal constitution and original position of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) is fully explained by Krsna disguised as a brahmana as follows- 

The Brāhmaṇa said - "My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world." (4th Canto Chapter 28 text 53)

Srila Prabhupada - "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

For those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana once there, have not understood these clear points explained by Srila Prabhupada.

So no, it would not negate the essence of Goloka-Vrindavana if we can leave God's Kingdom at anytime we choose, otherwise there is no question of free will or having freedom Prabhupada explains above. 

This is because the real essence of the jiva-soul's character is their constitutional nature of having free will.

Entering spiritual life does not mean you have to "surrender" or give up your free will.

The choice to leave Goloka-Vrindavana or Vaikuntha or stay is always there because we have free will,  Prabhupada explains that.

In 1978 in Mayapur I argued this point with two senior gurus from another math (sanga) and humbly explained to them they have not understood that free will is never lost in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, and is the real cause of fall down, not maya.

I really could not understand why people were going to these men when we had Prabhupada.

There is always choice even on the spiritual planets Prabhupada has told us and remaining in Goloka Vrindavana is voluntary.*^*.










1 comment:

  1. For those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana once there, have not understood these clear points explained by Srila Prabhupada.

    So no, it would not negate the essence of Goloka-Vrindavana if we can leave God's Kingdom at anytime we choose, otherwise there is no question of free will or having freedom Prabhupada explains above.

    This is because the real essence of the jiva-soul's character is their constitutional nature of having free will.

    Entering spiritual life does not mean you have to "surrender" or give up your free will.

    The choice to leave Goloka-Vrindavana or Vaikuntha or stay is always there because we have free will, Prabhupada explains that.

    In 1978 in Mayapur I argued this point with two senior gurus from another math (sanga) and humbly explained to them they have not understood that free will is never lost in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, and is the real cause of fall down, not maya.

    I really could not understand why people were going to these men when we had Prabhupada.

    There is always choice even on the spiritual planets Prabhupada has told us and remaining in Goloka Vrindavana is voluntary.*^

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