Wednesday, July 20, 2022

The individual jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are eternal persons as a spiritual bodily form, who have no beginning or end to their existence, they will never cease to be as Bhagavad Gita As It is teaches.

The only reason we change material bodies is because in the material world nothing lasts forever.

Everything in the material universes are in a constant state of decomposition except for the visiting jiva-souls who are the perpetual spiritual passengers within the material bodily vessels and, unlike the material body, are eternal. 

Bhagavad Gita As It Is  - "For the jiva-soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG 2.12)

The individual jiva-souls like Kṛṣṇa have always existed and were NEVER created.

Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind." (BG, Ch 2 text 23)

All individual jīva-souls are ETERNAL persons as a spiritual bodily form, therefore, there are no new jiva-souls being created due to the fact they have ALWAYS existed and are beginningless and endless.

The full potential and original infinite feature of all individual marginal living entities (jiva-souls) is a two arm form like Krsna's Bodily Form.

Srila Prabhupada - "The human form is the full manifestation of the individual jiva-soul." (Melb, May 20, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14 Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form, God is also human form, "man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri dasa – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – [describing material form first]: "Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri dasa - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

Devotee - "I want to know exactly what is the form of the spiritual body, if the spirit soul (jiva-soul) is non-material, what is the form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand, you have got leg; therefore your pant has got leg. Therefore, it is to be assumed that the spirit soul has got form, and it has developed into hands, legs, heads, everything. It is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14 Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

In most cases the cause of fall down to the material creation is free will however, in rare cases some devotees in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, like the gate keepers of the Vaikuṇṭha planets Jai and Vijay, offend a great devotee as they did by the way they treated the four Kumaras and denying them entry.

Being an eternal individual marginal living entity (jiva-soul) means free will is included in their constitutional make up.

This means in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana (The Kingdoms of God), the eternal individual jiva-souls always have a choice.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Sadly, less than 10% do choose to leave Krsna and Visnu and enter the dreaming material creation of Maha-Visnu.

The good thing is more than 90% of eternal individual jiva-souls seemingly never choose to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana Prabhupada has explained however, because the individual jiva-souls are beginningless and endless over an infinity, that most likely can change too, and they also may choose to leave the spiritual world.

This fall down by some individual jiva-souls has nothing to do with the influence of Maya or the material energy because Maya does not exist in the spiritual planets but free will does exists there eternally and not only allows loving exchanges and reciprocation to exist with Krsna and Visnu, but also allows the eternal jiva-souls to reject Krsna and Visnu if they choose.

A loving relationship with Kṛṣṇa and Visnu can only exist on a two-way street where each jiva-soul can also voluntarily contribute to the relationship.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape? In Bengali it is said if you catch one girl or boy and you demand you love me, you love me, is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you! Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. You love me, otherwise I shall kill you! That is not love; that is threatening." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C)

Srila Prabhupāda – "Genuine love means a relationship between "two persons", then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is not love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed by only one, there must be two. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (SB, Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness, so how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "Surrender BY your intelligence but don't surrender your intelligence." (Letter to Bali Mardan 1974)

Love can never exist when only one is involved, the freedom must be there to voluntarily choose to participate in a "two-way" reciprocal relationship of loving exchanges with the Lord.

Even Krsna had to divide Himself into two just so He could experience loving exchanges with a women. Loving expressions can only exist when two are involved, NOT one as the impersonalist (mystic yogis) live their lonely self centred selfish existence. 

The word reciprocation only has meaning when there are two involved, NOT one.

As said above, on very rare occasions, the individual jiva-souls can fall down due to some offence against a great devotee or devotees like the gatekeepers of Vaikuntha, Jaya and Vijaya who offended the 4 child like Kumaras by telling them they could not enter Vaikuntha.

As a result of their offence, Visnu gave them two ways to enter the material world, 7 times as devotees, or 3 times as demons.

Jaya and Vijaya could not stand the thought of being away from their master Visnu for seven life times, so they agreed to be born three times as the Lord's enemies. After fulfilling the curse, then they could return to their immortal forms as Visnu's gatekeepers.  

The choice to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana is possible because Krsna allows love to be a "two-way" street of voluntary service, this means one can accept or reject Krsna if they choose to do so.

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he'd likes he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We CAN misuse that."(Conversation Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976) 

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada  - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva dasa - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Discussions on Rene Descartes philosophy)

There is only two causes that keep the jiva-souls continuingly taking birth in the material worlds-

1 - The result of accumulated past baggage of impious and pious activity (Karma) from this and past lives, forcing the conditioned eternal individual jiva-souls to keep taking birth and reep the accumulation of their deeds backed up for billions of life times

2 - By not surrendering to Krsna's pure devotee where the individual jiva-souls can find their freedom from all past karmic reactions but instead continue to ignore Krsna by desiring to enjoy separate from Krsna or Visnu.

The individual jiva-souls are eternal, the only reason we change material bodies is because in the material world, nothing lasts forever and all material bodily vessels eventually grow old, decompose, wear out, decay and die forcing the ETERNAL individual jiva-souls to take a new material body.

This is called reincarnation or transmigration of the jiva-souls into an unlimited array of material bodily vessels.  

The temporary material bodies we obtain at birth are always on a constant journey from birth, youth, middle age, old age and death.

In the temporary material world, each material bodily vessels is occupied by an eternal individual jiva-soul however, the material bodily vessel they are in, is always in a state of decay and decline and eventually became food for maggots and worms.

Hence, we experience the decomposing journey of birth, youth, middle age, old age and death.

This happens because all material bodies wear out, fade away, decompose and becomes unfit to house life (The eternal individual jiva-souls [marginal living entities]).

Therefore, the eternal individual jiva-soul is eventually kicked out of the decomposing material bodily vessel due to it becoming unfit to house the eternal jiva-soul that never dies.

The material bodily vessel is temporarily therefore, the eternal individual jiva-souls inside them, are forced to again take another material bodily vessel in the material w.

And the next re-birth could be any material body out of 8 million 400 thousand species of body, to again get another rare human body is not guaranteed, most today take their next birth in the animal Kingdom.

The fact is, to obtain the human bodily form is also very; very rare, most people today are heading for rebirth in the lower species (the animal kingdom) and become dogs, hogs, camels and asses..××..

























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