Wednesday, August 31, 2022

Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal brahman (dormant brahmajyoti) is a fallen condition, it is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness, those who are in the brahman effulgence are in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition." (LA California 13 June, 1970)

The jiva-souls never originated from a dormant (inactive) condition in the impersonal Brahmajyoti Prabhupada explains.

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG, Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 04/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – So where are all the spirit souls coming from? These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new soul, new and old are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how there can be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 02/27/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will, unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will." (Prabhupada discussion with Rene Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada - "The next question about the living entities falling down to this material world, they are not from the impersonal brahman, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. 

When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition and that non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long as one can maintain their pure Krsna consciousness they are not fallen. 

As soon as they becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately they have fallen down. 

It does not matter where a living entity stays, in the material world there are different stages of living conditions, and to remain in the "brahman effulgence" is also another phase of that fallen condition." (Letter to Revatinandana dasa, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that the conditioned souls by their pious activities, are elevated to the higher planetary system, but as soon as the stock of pious activities is finished they again come down to the earthly planet. 

Similarly, those who are elevated beyond the material planetary system to the brahman effulgence, they are also prone to fall down as much as a living entity from the higher planetary system.

As such those who are thinking that they are liberated by being situated in brahman effulgence, are described in the Srimad Bhagavatam as impurely intelligent. 

In other words, they are actually not liberated, and because they are not actually liberated they again come down to the material world as much as a living entity elevated to the higher planetary system comes down to this earthly planet. 

So we do not accept anyone elevated to the brahman effulgence or brahmajyoti effulgence" even though it may ''appear'' they do because of the enormous time span they are dormant in the impersonal brahmajyoti. 

They have actually fallen to the "brahman effulgence" by entering it at the end of the previous material creation, or may have entered it as an impersonalist yogi fed up with material existence." (Letter to Revatinandana dasa, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

The jiva-souls never originated from the impersonal brahmajyoti, the Body of Maha-Visnu or some dormant clear sheet of consciousness called tatastha-sakti, because long, long, long before they had fallen to the conditioned state in the impersonal Brahmajyoti, or becoming dormant within the Body of Maha-Visnu waiting for Him to create the next material universes, they were in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana with Visnu or Krsna. 

This is explained here–

Revatīnandana - "You very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the spirit soul goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. 

So does that means the whole impersonal brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? 

You see my question? If I choose to go into the impersonal brahmajyoti, am I still fallen."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Revatīnandana - "That means all jīva-souls there are also fallen souls?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes." (Los Angeles 13 June, 1970) 

The jiva-soul in their original position have ALWAYS been a spiritual bodily form eternally. 

The jiva-soul can also appear as a bodiless "spark" or individual impersonal featureless unit, but that only manifests when the jiva-souls "fall down" from their original eternal position remembering their perpetual spiritual bodily form with Krsna or Visnu.

Prabhupada told us the original features of the jiva-soul is a two-armed bodily form like Krsnas.

From there, all other forms are voluntary and possible, such as the "four-armed form" on the Vaikuntha planets similar to Visnu's Body.

So being a "spark" of formless consciousness in the Brahmajyoti or dormant in the atom are both fallen conditions.

One's original feature and full potential is a "spiritual bodily form" like Krsna's two-armed form.

Man is made in the image of God.

The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities is a two-arm form like Krsna's Body.

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. 

That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. 

If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, May 20, 1975)

Girl devotee - "(translating from Spanish) She wants to know exactly what is the form of the spiritual body. If the spirit souls is non-material, what is the form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this material body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore, your coat has got hand. You have got legs; therefore, your pant has got legs. 

Therefore, it is to be assumed that the spirit soul always has got form, and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. 

The spirit soul is not formless; it has got form. 

But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say and foolishly believe it has no form." (BG Ch 2 text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee - "Śrīla Prabhupāda, you state that spirit soul has form."

Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Devotee - "Otherwise, how is the material body grown to accommodate the spirit soul? Just like a shirt has no form, but when it's put on the body, it takes the shapes of the body. Does that mean that the spirit soul has the shape of the body that is accommodating it?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, you have got body, shape, very minute shape. That we cannot see, we cannot measure. Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, anumeyam, or... What is that? You cannot measure. What is that word used? Aprameyam. Aprameyam. You cannot measure. But it has a form.

How, what is the length and breadth of that form, that is not in your power. In your power, but not materially. That is... If you have got spiritual power, then you can measure it. And that measurement is also given in the śāstra. What is that? 

One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Hair is a very small point. And divide it into ten thousand parts. That one part is the measure, magnitude of the soul.

keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya

śatadhā kalpitasya ca

jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ

sa cānantyāya kalpate

(CC Madhya 19.140)

Everything is there. But you have no eyes to see, how to see one ten-thousandth portion of the top of the hair. You cannot see even the original top of the hair. Everything is there. We must have eyes." (SB Canto 1 Ch 16 text 24, Hawaii, Jan 20, 1974)













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