This is because such force would destroy the jiva-souls voluntary contributions that leads to loving exchanges and a two-way reciprocal relationship.
Srila Prabhupada - "The "immediate" expansions of the Lord are called svāṁśa or personal direct expansions (Visnu-tattva). The "separated" expansions of the Lord are called vibhinnāṁśa - jiva-tattva or independent jiva-souls like us." (BG 10.37, Purport)
In most nearly all cases (unless the jiva-soul prays for Krsna's chastisement), Krsna will not interfere with the jiva-soul's free will because He wants a relationship with those individuals who take personal responsibilities for their own thoughts and actions.
This also allows them to voluntarily contribute offerings in their own unique way. This is what it means to be an "individual" who has the free will to further enrich one's loving exchanges with Krsna.
Otherwise one is just a mindless drone who foolishly thinks "surrender" means allowing Krsna to control your every thoughts and actions and only allow Krsna to possess you and take complete control of you.
The fact is, that kind of so called "surrender" is nonsense impersonalism.
To follow Krsna or not follow Krsna is based on "choice" or "free will" and "voluntary" participation or service.
Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that "Don’t fall down."
Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire."
Devotee – "In the Srimad Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he insists, "Oh, I must go. I must go." "All right, you go at your risk and suffer." What can be done? So because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence. If you persist that "I must go and enjoy independently," so God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Acyutananda – "In the Bhagavad Gita it says, 'Once coming to the Vaikuntha, he never returns to the material worlds.' So he can return?"
Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he can return."
Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God. God has got full independence, but you have got independence too, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
Without "free will" genuine loving exchanges in a "two-way" direction based on reciprocation and voluntary contributions or offerings, can NEVER exist.
Freedom and free will means having the choice to accept or reject Krsna otherwise there is no question of freedom.
Real love can never exist if this was not the standard.
Those scholars who make the claim "not even the leaves can fall down from Vaikuntha" are not understanding the concept of "free will" and the voluntary "two-way" reciprocal exchanges going on between Krsna and the jiva-souls.
The Spiritual planets are NOT a nonsense "one-way" impersonal non-contributing dictatorship where one is always told what to do instead of encouraged to think for themselves.
The fact is one's position in the Spiritual planets can NEVER be claimed to be eternally permanent there even though for the majority (over 90%) of jiva-souls it is.
This is because there is ALWAYS "free will" in both Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
This means at any time the jiva-souls can leave if they choose to do so.
Many Vaisnavas in other Sangas (religious cults) claim the jiva-soul can never fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana once there, no, this idea is wrong and incorrect because the jiva-souls can leave at anytime they want due to THEIR free will.
But most (over 90%) "choose" to stay.
It is the choice of the jiva-soul too and NOT just Krsna's command that decides the fate of the jiva-souls.
Yes, one can fall down from Vaikuntha at anytime, not because of Maya or any material cause as explained above, but because they have their "free will", or the ability to make their own decisions.
Maya and material nature cannot exist in Vaikuntha and therefore is NOT the cause of fall down.
But the ability to choose DOES exist in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
However, once in the material creation "free will" is greatly restricted and almost does not exist.
Only in the human species does free will exist in a small degree, all other species act according to the instincts of eating, sleeping, mating and depending.
Therefore, in the lower species, good or bad karma is NOT created.
In fact good or bad karma is not created in the hellish or heavenly planets either, one who is there simply burns off their pious and impious bank balance accumulated while in a human material body on this Earth.
Only Visnu-tattva and Sakti (Visnu) tattva direct expansions of Krsna (Krsna just playing different rolls in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan) never fall down because they ARE Krsna.
On the other hand, all jiva-souls CAN leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana anytime they desire as explained above.
If they had no choice to choose between serving Krsna and doing their own thing in the material creation, then without that choice by having free will, then how can there be genuine love?
Krsna does NOT force the living entity (jiva-souls) to love Him.
Sadly, many cannot get their head around this fact that one CAN leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana anytime they want.
It is NOT true that once in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, the jiva-souls remains there forever.
No one, not even Krsna can promise that one will eternally stay in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana and will NEVER fall down because all jiva-souls and independent living entities with their own free will.
So that choice is not Krsnas, it is the jiva-souls choice, and they can change their minds at anytime.
Only a sentimental fool makes the silly comment that once reaching Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, one will never again fall down to the material creation.
No one knows what each jiva-soul will choose in the future including within the eternal presence of Krsna.
So over an infinity everything can change meaning you can be anything you want to be except being God.
Also, the jiva-souls did not come from any "impersonal origin" either as some claim.
The fact is, we ALL came from our original home in the Vaikuntha planets or from Goloka Vrindavana long, long, long ago.
Years ago I had big aguments with other religious groups in the 1970s. They foolishly claimed we have never been to Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana which our Srila Prabhupada says is nonsense and we should avoid such bogus teachings from these sannyasis.
Prabhupada has told us their understanding is incorrect and that all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) originate from Goloka-Vrindavana and did not come from any impersonal nonsense they call a clear sheet of consciousness.
This is because the jiva-souls are eternal and have no origin as Bhagavad Gita teaches us.
Therefore, tatastha-sakti is a fallen condition of the jiva-soul and NOT the origin.
An impersonal inactive state of consciousness is NOT the origin of the jiva-soul as some claim and teach.
As said above, ALL jiva-souls have come directly from being in Krsna's "personal active pastimes" Prabhupāda has told us.
Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG on Aug 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)
New jiva-souls are NEVER created as some claim.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is clearly says that never was there a time when the jiva-souls did not exist, nor in the future will any of then ever cease to be.
The jiva-souls have existed for "infinity" which means they are beginningless and endless.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is 1983 corrected edition, Chapter 2 text 12-
"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG Ch 2 text 12)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is 1983 corrected edition, Chapter 2 text 20-
"For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG Ch 2 text 20)
Please avoid reading these verses from Prabhupada's incorrect 1972 edition of Bhagavad Gita As It Is, where the above text indicates the jiva-soul has a beginning when it is beginningless.
Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, "If I could become the master." They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna protect us from that desire?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He’s protecting. He says, "You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me." But you are rascal; you do not do this."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, "You love me, you love me, you love me. Is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you!" Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
By misusing one's free will causes the jiva-soul to live separately from Krsna by entering the material creation.
And this choice has nothing to do with maya or material energy as explained above.
As Prabhupada has explained, it is one's free will that allows the jiva-souls to reject Krsna.
This is because each jiva-soul is an independent individual persons, who can make their own choices, and includes rejecting Krsna if they want that instantly places them in the material creation.
After making that choice, the rebellious jiva-soul is given material bodies by Maha-Visnu, both subtle and gross material vessels that covers the anti material spiritual form.
In the material world the jiva-souls are confined to a gross material bodily vessel that is always in a state of decay and decline, and in need of constant maintenance.
Eventually the jiva-soul, trapped within a decaying material body, is forced to take another gross material body when their present one decomposes and wears out.
Everything in the material creation perishes due to decay caused by the temporary nature of the material creation.
Also once in the material creation, the jiva-soul is on their own path directed by their own pious and impious actions.
This is because they are responsible for their actions good and bad and are punishment or rewarded according.
Therefore karma begins as soon as the jiva-soul leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.
No jiva-souls originate from the dormant (inactive) Brahmajyoti or Brahman effulgence, or the Body of Maha-Visnu because they ALL come (originate) from Vaikuntha as Prabhupada explains above repeated here again as a reminder-
Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG on Aug 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)
Although many jiva-souls may fall to impersonal Brahman or Brahmajyoti AFTER being in the material creation.
However, NEVER did the jiva-souls originate from that impersonal Brahmajyoti Prabhupada explains here-
Srila Prabhupada - "The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness.Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere."(Hare Krsna "Happening record album" New York City, Dec 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Srila Prabhupada - "This material world is created by the dreaming of Mahā-Viṣṇu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation." (SB Canto 4 Ch 29 text 83 Purport)
Many have an impersonalist idea about what Vaikuntha is like and do not even know it. Only when the living entity desires not to be with Krishna do they enter the material world and realize Maya's existences.
Paramahamsa - "But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return."
Srila Prabhupada - "There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is."
Paramahamsa - "If we want."
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."
Paramahamsa - "So we can come to the spiritual world and return?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."
Paramahamsa - "Fall down?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, as soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice, yes, Krsna says, yes, you go." Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness. So, they want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students, Krsna conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare, nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare. The police is there. Just like the police car was there. We have nothing to do with it. But if you do anything criminal, immediately you will be arrested, under police custody. The maya may be there, but maya captures him who is not a devotee of Krsna. That’s all. Therefore, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, maya does not interfere anymore."
Paramahamsa - ''So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these bodies; and our desire to achieve Krsna brings us to our natural position."
Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes." (Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)
Therefore the jiva-souls are responsible for their choices and actions.
And in the material creation free will almost does not exist because one is binded by their own reactions to their pious and impious deeds (karma)
Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)
Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your several questions: Where are the spirit souls coming from that are taking microbe bodies? It is not a matter of any particular body. These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new souls. New and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be new soul?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa Feb 27, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "The relationship with Krsna is never lost, it is simply forgotten by the influence of maya, so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position.
The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 02/27/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva-soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva-souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva-soul is called as Krsna’s marginal energy." (Letter to Rayarama, Dec 2, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position." (BG As It Is, Introduction)
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body." (Germany, June 22, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada – "In the Padma Purana, wherein it is said that there are two kinds of spiritual entities; one is called the jiva, and the other is called the Supreme Lord." (87th Chapter of Krsna Book, Prayers by the Personified Vedas)
Full conversation in the heading quotes reveals what Prabhupada means when he says less than 10% fall down Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
Dr. John Mize – "Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"
Srila Prabhupada – "No, there are majority of over 90%, they are always good. They never fall down."
Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are restricted, just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, the majority of living being are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down to the material worlds."
Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna?" Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient."
Dr. John Mize – "Are more souls falling all the time?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence (free will). Everyone is not liking to misuse their independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also the prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing a prison" But the Government knows there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency to misuse your free will."
Dr. John Mize – "The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka or Vaikuntha) is from where?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says,yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (BG As It Is lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)
Acyutananda - "So what made the jiva-soul take birth in the first place?"
Srila Prabhupada - "In the first place?"
Acyutananda - "What is the first birth? What is the cause of the first birth in the material creation?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, that is stated in the Prema-vivarta:
krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare
nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare
We are eternal servant of Krsna. As soon as we want to become master, that is the beginning of our first birth in the material world. We have got independence. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva bhutah—we are part and parcel of Krsna—so Krsna has got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we have got minute independence. Our business is to serve Krsna, but as soon as we give up this idea, we want to become master. That is the beginning of our material birth." (Lecture on SB Canto 5.5.2, Hyderabad, April 11, 1975)
Acyutananda - "But in Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming to the Spiritual world (Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana), one never returns to the material worlds."
Srila Prabhupada - "But if he likes, he can return."
Acyutananda - "He can return?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Morning Walk, Feb 19, 1976, Mayapur)
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura - ''When the marginal living entity has contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha, material rasas (tastes and desires) are perverted reflections of the soul's original spiritual rasas." (Prema-pradipa, p. 83)
Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we could fall down in the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France).
It is not Maya causing one to leave or fall down from Vaikuntha because there is no material nature (Maya) in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana that forces the jiva-soul to leave Krsna.
Maya's temptation and material energy do not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.
There is no material cause for our fall down from Vaikuntha to the material creation however, what does exist eternally in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, and can cause fall down to the material creation if misused, is free will, or one's constitutional right to make their own decisions and choices.
Also the jiva-souls have existed for "infinity" which means they are beginningless and endless.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is 1983 correct edition, Chapter 2 text 12-
"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG Ch 2 text 12)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is 1983 correct edition, Chapter 2 text 20-
"For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG Ch 2 text 20)
Please avoid reading Prabhupada's incorrect 1972 edition of Bhagavad Gita As It Is where the above text indicates the jiva-soul has a beginning when it is beginningless.**
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