Gauragopala Das ACBSP: The individual jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are unique "persons" eternally, this means they are beginningless and endless and were NEVER created.

Just by correctly understanding the above comment, one will be freed from the material world.

The jiva-souls are unique "bodily forms" who are separate and independent from Krsna's bodily form and His Visnu-tattva expansions. However, the jiva-souls are also simultaneously fully dependent on the Lord because Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.

Therefore, Kṛṣṇa supplies all the jiva-souls needs so they can have their independent existence. This why the jiva-souls are called "marginal living entities"

The marginal living energy (jiva-souls) are individual living entities eternally, the term is NOT describing a place where jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency, energy or realm or jiva-souls, ARE individual PERSONS with bodily form who are beginningless and endless as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains.

The word "marginal" means the jiva-souls can be under the influence of Krsna's spiritual energy or under the influence of Krsna's material energy.

The marginal realm or potency is NOT a place, as clearly said above, the marginal potency ARE the individual jiva-souls.

Many misunderstanding this fact.

There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls), who have existed as long as Krsna has existed.

The marginal platform means the "jiva-souls" or spirit souls, who naturally belong as individuals in the supreme spiritual energy with Krsna, are called "marginal living entities" because they can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or material energy eternally, explained as follows by Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom.” (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul) Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Therefore, being “generated” from the marginal plane does not mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some so called place in the Brahmajyoti.

First of all, being "marginal" means having free will, or having the choice to be influenced by the spiritual energy, which is the jiva-souls nature position and full potential, or influenced by the material energy, an unnatural conditioned state.

Therefore, the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.

There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals.” (Lecture on BG 9.4 -Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity,” this means, just like Krsna, they are beginning less and endless, and were NEVER created-

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG, Ch 2 Text 12)

The jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa have always existed and were NEVER created.

Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

Being a "marginal" living entity means having the free will to accept or reject Krsna.

All marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are EQUALLY intimate and uniquely exclusively personal with Krsna (God) in His eyes within His Kingdom regardless of the pastime.

This is because in the spiritual world ALL relationships with Krsna are "equally blissful to each other", just like one may like a carnation flower while others may choose to like a rose flower.

Srila Prabhupada - “The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

The jiva-souls are known as Krsna's “marginal energy,” the marginal energy (jiva-souls) are individual living entities and NOT some place where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm ARE the individual jiva-souls!

The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence of either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.

Many, in fact most, do not understand what the spiritual world is, and the points made here.

The "free will" to feel envy means you want to enjoy like Krsna and be in the centre instead of Krsna, such self centred desires immediately disqualifies you to remain in the spiritual world (Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana) and immediately you a transferred to the material creation managed by Maha-Visnu.

Your spiritual memories as your eternal spiritual bodily form, are in the spiritual world and you cannot take them with you to the material world because they are NOT material.

Once the jiva-souls enter the material world, their free will is almost non-existent, and instead are directed by the demands of the material senses - eating, sleeping, mating and defending, found controlling all species of material life.

Therefore, there is no choice in the spiritual world influenced by "matter" or "maya" because matter does NOT exist in the spiritual world.

Also, maya is NOT the cause of the jiva-souls fall down from the spiritual world to the material world, "free will" is the cause of fall down. This means there is always a choice in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana that many nonsense sangas (religious cults) and their gurus cannot understand.

The jiva-souls who have chosen to leavevthe Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana, can only then enter the material world in a material bodily vessel provided by Maha-Visnu, and NOT as their spiritual eternal bodily form.

All knowledge of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana is part of the spiritual body, but now covered by a temporary decaying material bodily vessel.

In the spiritual world, as their original eternal spiritual bodily form, all jiva-souls are female in their intimate original relationship with Krsna. The jiva-souls are the enjoyed and Krsna is the enjoyer.

However, in the spiritual world, even though one is female in their eternal relationship to Kṛṣṇa, the jiva-souls can voluntary appear as who they want to be, as male, a cow, a tree, a bird, a street sign, a blade of grass, anything they like to serve Krsna as.

Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this material body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. You have got legs; therefore your pant has got legs. Therefore it is to be assumed that the spirit soul always has got form, and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. The spirit soul is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say and foolishly believe it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2.14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form, God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first] Yes, they are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, May 20, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture on BG 2.14 - Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee - "What is the form of the spiritual body. If the spirit soul is non-material, what is the form?"

Devotee - "Śrīla Prabhupāda, you state that spirit soul has form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Devotee - "Otherwise, how is the material body grown to accommodate the spirit soul? Just like a shirt has no form, but when it's put on the body, it takes the shapes of the body. Does that mean that the spirit soul has the shape of the body that is accommodating it?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, you have got body, a shape, very minute shape that we cannot see, we cannot measure. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "anumeyam," what is that word used? Aprameyam, you cannot measure but it has a form. What is the length and breadth of that form? That is not in your power, but it is not material. If you have spiritual power then you can measure it. And that measurement is also given in the śāstra. What is that? One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Hair is a very small point. And divide it into ten thousand parts. That one part is the measure, magnitude of the soul.

keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya

śatadhā kalpitasya ca

jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ

sa cānantyāya kalpate

(CC Madhya 19.140)

Everything is there. But you have no eyes to see, how to see one ten-thousandth portion of the top of the hair? You cannot see even the original top of the hair. Everything is there. We must have the proper eyes." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 16 text 24 - Hawaii, January 20, 1974)

Hayagrīva dasa - "Aquinas believed that God is the only single essence that consists of pure form. He felt that matter is only a potential and, in order to be real, must assume a certain shape or form.

"Being in the universe have to acquire an individual form in order to actualize themselves. When matter unites with form, the form gives an object its individuality and personality. A bodily form gives an object its individuality and personality."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, the matter has no form. The spirit soul has got form. Though the matter is covering the actual form of the spirit soul, the matter appears to have form. Just like the original cloth has no form, but when the tailor cuts the cloth according to the body of the person, then the shirt and coat takes a form. The matter itself has no form. When you take clay, it has no form, but if you make it like a doll, like a man or woman, then it has a form. When the change the clay, and you manufacture a fort, then the fort has form. So form and formlessness is of the matter, but in the spiritual world everything has got form. The spirit soul has got form. God has got form. This is the truth."

Hayagrīva dasa - "Aquinas believed that only God and the angels have form that is not material. There is no difference between God's form and His spiritual self."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, as in the material world any form-man or beast or anyone—in the outward, external covering is matter, but within the matter there is the soul. The soul has form and God has form. That is real form. And the material form is simply shirting and coating over the spiritual body." (Philosophy Discussion on Thomas Aquinas)

Hayagrīva dasa - "He considered that matter was necessary to give the soul form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "No, he has got his original form."

Hayagrīva dasa - "Original form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Hayagrīva dasa - "Which is the form of the body."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Original form (like Krsna's Bodily, that is the form of the spirit."

Hayagrīva dasa - "Of the spirit."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, and the form of the body takes place on account of the form of the spirit. This is very nice example. The cloth has no form, but when it is cut according to the form of the gentleman, it takes a form. Similarly, matter has no form. When it is coated on the spiritual form of the soul, it takes the form. This is very easy to understand." (Philosophy Discussion on Thomas Aquinas beliefs)

Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The jiva-souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense, everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna, he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We are not the owner of this body, not the owner of the material senses. The senses are "hired" from the Supreme Lord. This is very subtle understanding; one should know the proprietor of the senses is God." (March 1966, NY, City)

Srila Prabhupada - "The "immediate" expansions of the Lord are called svāṁśa or "personal direct" expansions (Visnu-tattva). The "separated" expansions of the Lord are called vibhinnāṁśa - jiva-tattva or independent jiva-souls like us." (BG 10.37, Purport)

Each individual jiva-soul in the spiritual world can "choose" to "voluntarily" serve Krsna in an unlimited variety of ways, or even reject Him if they choose and enter the material world. The jiva-souls ARE an eternal individual spiritual bodily form that originally looks like Krsna's "two-armed bodily form" in the spiritual world of Goloka-Vrindavana.

Each jiva-soul has their own unique personality separate from the Krsna's Personality that allows free will and voluntary service. However, the appearance of the jiva-souls can change to an unlimited variety of bodily forms in the spiritual world, and not necessarily human either. They can appear as a flag pole, a blade of grass, a tree, a bench, a cow herd boy or girl, a cow, a shop owner, a cloud in the sky, a bird, etc.

There are unlimited choices of what one can look like but is almost inconceivable to understand this.

It is also inconceivable to understand that the spiritual world is a place where EVERYTHING is living and no dead matter or maya exists there.

If the jiva-souls voluntary choose to enter the Vaikuntha planets of Visnu/Narayana, they have a 4 armed bodily form similar to Lord Visnu, or a 4 armed bodily Form similar to Luxmi devi, Lord Visnu's consort.

Srila Prabhupada - "The human form is the full manifestation of the jiva-soul." (Melb, May 20, 1975)

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada – "They are not in full manifestation, the human form is the full manifestation of the jiva-soul. In the spiritual world appearing as a flower, a tree, a peacock etc is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; then they become flower there, they lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna as a flower voluntarily, but he can change his form from flower to human body if one wants. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 Text 1-4 - Melb, May 20, 1975)

As said above, the original eternal form of the marginal living entity (jiva-soul) is a "two-arm form" like Krsnas (that the human species also have).

Further more, the jiva-souls in Goloka-Vrindavana can choose to enter the Vaikuntha planets where they manifest from their "two-armed form" to a "four armed form" similar to Visnu's bodily form.

The marginal living entities or jiva-soul's original bodily form are made up of-

Sat - eternity.

Cit - knowledge.

Ananda - bliss.

Vigraha - perpetual bodily spiritual form.

Therefore the original eternal bodily feature of the jiva-soul is not some impersonal formless spark in the inactive Brahmajyoti, or Brahman as the impersonalists and mayavadis believe. Nor do the "jiva-souls" originate from the dreams of Maha-Visnu, only the material bodily vessels are created by Maha-Visnu and originate from Him.

All jiva-souls report to Maha-Visnu after entering the material creation from the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana, to be given a variety of "material bodily vessels." All material bodily vessels or costumes the visiting jiva-souls have, are provided by Maha-Visnu.

As said above, these material bodily vessels are "hired" from the dreams of Maha-Visnu so the jiva-souls can enter His material creation in a suitable bodily container that matches their desires.

Srila Prabhupada - "We are not the owner of this body, not the owner of the material senses. The senses are "hired" from the Supreme Lord. This is very subtle understanding; one should know the proprietor of the senses is God." (March 1966, NY, City)

However, all such biological vessels in the material world are temporary and subject to decay, nothing made of matter lasts forever.

This causes the eternal jiva-souls within those material bodies, who are visiting from the spiritual worlds as passengers, to continue taking birth after birth to continue trying to satisfy their desires.

Srila Prabhupada – "This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream." (SB Canto 4 Ch 29 Text 83)

Srila Prabhupada – "Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma-Samhita describes-

This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation." (SB, Canto 4 Ch 29.83)

Srila Prabhupada - "Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present, and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature." (SB, Canto 4 Ch 29.2b)

Srila Prabhupada - "Factually all of material existence is only a dream. Thus, there is no question of past, present, or future. Persons who are addicted to karma-kanda-vicara, which means ‘working for future happiness through fruitive activities’, are also dreaming. Similarly, past happiness and present happiness are merely dreams." (SB, Canto 4 Ch 29.2b)

Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, Oh, this material world is very nice, Yes, Kṛṣṇa says, yes, you can go, otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will." (Morning Walk Cheviot Hills May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Melb, Australia)

Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body." (Germany, June 22, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago. Anadi karama-phale. Anadi means before the creation. The real desire is how to go to home, back to Godhead."(Lecture on BG, London, Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "We may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment, so even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that, "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down." (Lecture in Honolulu, July 4, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - ''When fall down takes place it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. That non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition." (Letter to, Revatinandana, LA, California 13th June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupāda - "We are only a (dormant) spark (while fallen in the impersonal Brahmajyoti). But because we are spirit, we cannot remain in that fallen impersonal stage. He wants to enjoy, so for as long as one has forgotten (their spiritual bodily origin while outside of the spiritual atmosphere), one develops a body which is called matter."

Śyāmasundara - "Does the jiva-soul develop a spiritual body?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "No, he IS spiritual body, he has a spiritual identity already."

Revatīnandana - "You very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen, still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen jiva-souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and I go to the brahmajyoti I'm still fallen."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Revatīnandana - "That means all jīva-souls there are also fallen souls."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes." (Aug. 17, 1971, London)

As said above, the original spiritual form of the jiva-soul has "two-arms" like Krsna, however their original home is a choice between the Vaikuntha planets serving the four-armed Visnu, or being Krsna's friend, the two-armed Kṛṣṇa in Goloka Vrindavana.

Also, only when the jiva-souls voluntarily choose to leave Goloka-Vrindavana and enter the Vaikuntha planets, do they then manifest a four-armed form like Lord Visnu/Narayana.

There are billions of different perpetual Vaikuntha planets that take up 3/4 of the spiritual sky, each having their own Visnu form seen as the Supreme Personality of who has their own unique name that describes the pastimes on their particular Vaikuntha planet.

Srila Prabhupada - "Surrender BY your intelligence but don't surrender your intelligence."(Letter to Bali Mardan 1974)

Many in this world cannot understand that the nature of the jiva-soul in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, is being an independent contributing person who voluntarily chooses to serve Krsna, or, if they like, they can reject Krsna.

Each individual jiva-soul eternally has within their constitution the God given right of self expression, and should be encouraged to voluntarily express themselves in their own unique way and find different ways to please Krsna.

Such self articulation allows the jiva-souls in the spiritual world, to voluntarily contribute their own unique offerings instead of being "mindlessly" controlled what they offer, how to think, and what they should do, like a puppet controlled by the puppet masters strings.

"Self determination" is based on free will and the encouragement of self expression, but some so called authorities today cleverly (sneakly) try to restrict self expression by calling it radical personalism.

Such so called leaders feel threatened by allowing open discussions on many topics, they prefer only those who obey and who like what they are told what to do and think. These are the qualities in the leadership of a dangerous mind controlling cult.

These so called authorities fear that their position of control and power over others, is threatened by allowing in those not under their control, who openly express themselves, voice their opinions and realizations. Some today have claimed they have lived under this kind of clever "cult manipulation."

HERE HERE HERE HERE

Many question if there really is free will, or joke about free will by wrongly claiming some jiva-souls are never granted free will because Krsna does not always allow it in the spiritual worlds.

Such comments are nonsense, free will and a "two-way" dialogue between the jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa, is always there. Without free will there can never be any loving exchanges and reciprocation with Krsna.

Many leaders today who are overly attached to their position of power over others, do not understand what it really means to have free will.

Only in the material creation and lower species of life, is free will restricted and almost none existent.

Such restrictions only refers to those jiva-souls in the lower species of life forced to act by the instincts of eating, sleeping, mating and defending, and not karma or free will.

Obviously, under those material conditions, there is no free will or choices, the trapped jiva-souls only act by the instincts of material nature.

Only in the human form of life does karma exist and the jiva-souls are forced to act by the reactions from past good and bad karma.

However, free will in its full potential is always experienced in the Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana (The eternal Kingdom of God)

If the jiva-souls have no free will in the spiritual world, then they are no better than dead stone Prabhupada tells us.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes 1976)

Loving relationships are always a two-way street, love can never be experienced by just one, there must be two.

Srila Prabhupada – "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that." (July 8, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - ''Their (impersonalist) philosophy is oneness. So how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture on SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974).

As Prabhupada also explains, Krsna never forces you to surrender to Him, He never forces you to love Him, that MUST be voluntary, otherwise love can never genuinely exist.

Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna never forces you to love Him, that must be voluntary." (Melb Australia June 25, 1974)

Krsna will never interfere with the free will of the jiva-souls.

Free will allows genuine loving exchanges and reciprocation to take place, and as said above, without free will the jiva-souls are like dead stone!

Voluntary service is the bases of real surrender to Krsna in Goloka Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha Planets, which are the permanent eternal homes of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls).

The jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana are forever voluntarily expanding their independent expressions with their unique individuality with an increasing variety of personal devotional offerings based on free will.

Devotee – "In Srimad Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here? Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"

Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence, your free will. That is force, in Bengali it is said, if you catch one girl or boy, you love me, you love me, you love me, is that love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you! Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. You love me, otherwise I shall kill you! That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C)

Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

Ultimately each individual soul is a unique person with their own sense of independent self who are able to choose for themselves how to voluntarily serve Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, or even ignore Him if they choose to do so.

Free will in its full potential only fully exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan, the spiritual worlds, which are the jiva-souls original perpetual home.

As Prabhupada has warned us, if you have no free will then you are no better than dead stone, the stone has no free will, no one wants to be dead and mindless like cold stone.

Becoming a disciple happens by first surrendering to Krsna's pure devotee however, that does not mean one extinguishes their individuality, unique personality and free will, and then become Krsna's mindless drone and controlled puppet!

No, that is not surrendering to Krsna's pure devotee, it is actually surrendering to impersonalism and committing spiritual suicide.

Srila Prabhupada - "Parīkṣit Mahārāja was an ideal king and householder because he was a devotee of the Personality of Godhead. A devotee of the Lord automatically has all good qualifications. And the Emperor was a typical example of this.

Personally he had no attachment for all the worldly opulences in his possession.

But since he was king for the all-around welfare of his citizens, he was always busy in the welfare work of the public, not only for this life, but also for the next. He would not allow slaughterhouses or killing of cows.

He was not a foolish and partial administrator who would arrange for the protection of one living being and allow another to be killed. Because he was a devotee of the Lord, he knew perfectly well how to conduct his administration for everyone's happiness—men, animals, plants and all living creatures.

He was not selfishly interested.

Selfishness is either self-centered or self-extended. He was neither. His interest was to please the Supreme Truth, Personality of Godhead. The king is the representative of the Supreme Lord, and therefore the king's interest must be identical with that of the Supreme Lord.

The Supreme Lord wants all living beings to be obedient to Him and thereby become happy. Therefore the king's interest is to guide all subjects back to the kingdom of God.

Hence the activities of the citizens should be so coordinated that they can at the end go back home, back to Godhead. Under the administration of a representative king, the kingdom is full of opulence.

At that time, human beings need not eat animals. There are ample food grains, milk, fruit and vegetables so that the human beings as well as the animals can eat sumptuously and to their heart's content.

If all living beings are satisfied with food and shelter and obey the prescribed rules, there cannot be any disturbance between one living being and another. Emperor Parīkṣit was a worthy king, and therefore all were happy during his reign." (SB Canto 1 Ch 4 text 12, Purport)

Srila Prabhupada explains that proper loving relationships are always a two-way reciprocal exchange.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. Therefore love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, there MUST be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, so there must be lover, there must be beloved." (quote 1966 - 1974, Vaniquotes)

Srila Prabhupada - "We must understand that love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No, it is not good, that is not love, that is exploitation and forced obedience. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (quote 1966 - 1974, Vaniquotes)

The word "surrender" should be properly understood so that one's so called "surrender" and voluntary service is appreciated, reciprocated with and not forcefully demanded in an impersonal way.

Impersonalism means-

1 - Attempting to extinguish your individuality and unique spiritual identity, personality by becoming God's mindless drone, puppet or pawn.

2 - Being bullied, patronized, talked down too and treated and used like a slave who is never allowed to think for themselves, but rather instead should be nurtured, appreciated and encouraged to voluntarily contribute as an independent living entity, with the freedom of individual self expression while serving God.

3 - Striving to become dormant (an inactive state of consciousness) by merging as an individual unit into the Brahman effulgence, also known as the impersonal Brahmajyoti.

Impersonalism means one all-pervasive consciousness that denies the individual jiva-souls the awareness of their existence.

Therefore by attempting to extinguish their individuality and unique personality, the impersonalist are committing spiritual suicide.

In the spiritual world with Krsna, surrender does not mean you give up you individuality, free will, sense of self or the independence that allows you to make your own personal contributions and offerings to Krsna that is unique to just you.

Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha are very personal places based on loving voluntary exchanges that are eternally going on with Krsna and His servants and friends.

Therefore the jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna is unique and very personal, each jiva-soul has their own different personal exchanges with Krsna that no other jiva-soul can duplicate.

No two jiva-souls are the same in Vaikuntha (in personality and character) or Goloka-Vrindavana.

Therefore genuine love, service and surrender can only exist in a "two-way" voluntary exchange of feelings, based on reciprocation and mutual respect, Krsna never forces His will on anyone in the spiritual world.

Facing the non-sentimental facts that some ignorant gurus, sannyasis and their followers refuse to understand.

Having free will is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) that is eternally part and parcel of their individual character and personality in the spiritual worlds.

This means the jiva-souls can even choose to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana if they choose, at anytime.

It is nonsense sentimentality to claim the jiva-souls can never again fall down to the material worlds once they are in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.

This is because free will always allows the jiva-souls to make their own choices in the Spiritual worlds.

Therefore without that ability of being able to voluntarily choose, there is no question of loving exchanges or expressing genuine free will.

So the choice to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana is possible because Krsna allows a "two-way" relationship which includes accepting or rejecting Krsna if they choose.

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will, unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing is bad but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will." (Prabhupada talk on Rene Descartes with Hayagriva dasa 1976)

Unless there is the misuse of free will, even in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, there is no question of free will.

For loving exchanges to truly exist between Krsna and the jiva-souls, the jiva-souls also must have the right to voluntarily express themselves in a two-way exchange, which includes being able to choose to leave the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana at anytime, and return to the material worlds.

This is what having free will means.

Therefore returning back home, back to Godhead is not necessarily permanent because there is ALWAYS a choice..***..