Gauragopala Das ACBSP: The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) do NOT originate from tatastha-sakti, the impersonal brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Visnu.

Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some imaginary place in the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky called tatastha-sakti.

The jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa have ALWAYS existed, they were never created, this means they have no origin or beginning point to their existence because they have existed for infinity as Bhagavad Gita As It Is confirms.

Tatastha-sakti therefore describes the none Krsna conscious condition of the fallen jiva-souls in both material existence and the impersonal brahmajyoti.

The word tatastha-sakti refers to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in their "fallen conditional state" in both the material creation and when dormant in the (impersonal) Brahmajyoti.

Srila Prabhupada - "So this temporary material world is the taṭastha (materially conditioned) characteristics, and the spiritual world is the permanent (personal) characteristics. So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (materially conditioned) characteristics and enter the permanent (personal) characteristics. That is called spiritual elevation." (Lecture CC Madhya-lila 20.354-358, New York City, Dec 28, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "Because the individual soul is apt to fall down sometimes under the clutches of māyā, it is called taṭastha-śakti." (Lecture BG, Ch 7 Text 4-5 Bombay, March 30, 1971)

Revatīnandana dasa - "Srila Prabhupāda you very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and I go to the brahmajyoti I'm still fallen."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Revatīnandana dasa - "That means all jīva-souls there in the impersonal Brahman (Brahmajyoti) are also fallen souls?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition (Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha). The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness.'' (Letter to Revatinandana, LA 13 June, 1970 and 1971 London)

The full potential and original feature (bodily form) of all eternal marginal living entities (jiva-souls), is a "two-arm form" like Krsna's Body. The jiva-souls were NEVER created, they are beginningless and endless like Krsna is.

Srila Prabhupada - "God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." So Kṛṣṇa is also like human form, two hands, two legs." The human form is also the full manifestation of the jiva-soul." (Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 Text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee - "What is the form of the spiritual body. If the spirit soul is non-material, what is the form?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this material body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. You have got legs; therefore your pant has got legs. Therefore it is to be assumed that the spirit soul always has got form, and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. The spirit soul is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say and foolishly believe it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 Text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)

As said above, the original feature of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) is like Krsna's Bodily form, they do NOT originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or tatastha-sakti as some foolishly believe.

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first] Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "Are they covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna and become flower, voluntarily, and can change from flower to human body if one desires. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 Text 1-4, Melb, May 20, 1975)

Devotee - "If jiva-soul is non-material, so what is the form?

Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. If you have got... You have got leg; therefore your pant has got leg. Therefore it is to be assumed that the spirit soul has got form, and it has developed into hands, legs, heads, everything. It is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 Text 14, Mexico , Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee - "Śrīla Prabhupāda, you state that spirit soul has form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Devotee - "Otherwise, how is the material body grown to accommodate the spirit soul? Just like a shirt has no form, but when it's put on the body, it takes the shapes of the body. Does that mean that the spirit soul has the shape of the body that is accommodating it?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, but it has a form in its full potential in the spiritual sky, in the material world only is the soul "one ten-thousandth part" of the tip of the hair.

You have got body, shape, very minute shape. That we cannot see, we cannot measure. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, anumeyam, what is that? You cannot measure. What is that word used? Aprameyam. Aprameyam. You cannot measure.

But it has a form. How? What is the length and breadth of that form, that is not in your power. In your power, but not materially. That is... If you have got spiritual power, then you can measure it. And that measurement is also given in the śāstra.

What is that? One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Hair is a very small point. And divide it into ten thousand parts. That one part is the measure, magnitude of the soul.

keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya

śatadhā kalpitasya ca

jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ

sa cānantyāya kalpate

(CC Madhya 19.140)

Everything is there. But you have no eyes to see, how to see one ten-thousandth portion of the top of the hair. You cannot see even the original top of the hair. Everything is there. We must have eyes." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 16 Text 24, Hawaii, Jan 20, 1974)

So matter is impersonal. But because the superior prakṛti, jīva, he is person, therefore the matter appears like a person. Because I have got hands and legs, therefore this cloth has got hands and legs. Otherwise the cloth has no hands and legs; it is impersonal.

In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. This body is just like dress. Just like your coat has got hand, your pant has got leg, but either the pant or coat has no leg, no hand. So, because you have got leg and hand, the coat has got leg and hand. Everyone can understand this. It is very easy.

So the original (and eternally), the spirit soul has got form.

Therefore the cloth has been cut into form. It is very easy to understand. Otherwise how you get the form?

And in this form the spirit soul is trying to enjoy this material world. But it is not puruṣa. It cannot enjoy. That is false. That is illusion." (Lecture SB, Canto 3 Ch 26 Text 3, Bombay, Dec 15, 1974)

Srila Prabhupāda - Matter (material energy) has no form but the jiva-soul has got form. Though matter is covering the actual form of the jiva-soul, the matter then appears to have form. Just like the original cloth has no form, but when the tailor cuts the cloth according to the body of the person, then the shirt and coat takes a form.

The matter itself has no form. When you take clay, it has no form, but if you make it like a doll, like a man or woman, then it has a form. When you change the clay, and you manufacture a fort, then the fort has form. So, form and formlessness is of the matter, but in the spiritual world everything has got form. The spirit soul has got form. God has got form. This is the truth.

In the material world any form-man or beast or anyone—in the outward, external covering is matter, but within the matter there is the soul. The soul has form and God has form. That is real form. And the material form is simply shirting and coating over the spiritual body.

The form of the body takes place on account of the form of the spirit. This is very nice example. The cloth has no form, but when it is cut according to the form of the gentleman, it takes a form. Similarly, matter has no form. When it is coated on the spiritual form of the soul, it takes the form. This is very easy to understand." (Philosophy Discussion with Srila Prabhupāda on Thomas Aquinas)

Srila Prabhupāda - "The living entity has got hands, legs, everything, spiritual. Just like my, I have got my body, and this body's covered by this shirt, and because I have got this hand, the shirt has got hand.

Otherwise where from this hand comes Unless the spirit soul has got hands and legs, how we have got these material hands and legs?

Therefore it is, the conclusion is that spirit soul has form. As Kṛṣṇa has got form, sac cid ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1), similarly spirit soul, jīvātmā or jiva-soul, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, has got form.

So anyway, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, that this body, material body is, is like a dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāny yathā vihāya.

As we give up old dress, garment, similarly, when this body becomes useless, we give up this body and accept another new body. Navāni ghṛṇāti." (The Nectar of Devotion, Vrndavana, Oct 26, 1972)

As said above, the word tatastha-sakti refers to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in their fallen conditioned state in both the material creation, and when dormant in the impersonal brahmajyoti.

It is incorrect to believe the jiva-souls originate from tatastha-sakti (a conditioned fallen state) Srila Prabhupada has explained above.

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) sometimes fall down to the material creation from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana which are their original homes.

And then after being frustrated in a material body trapped in the cycle of birth and death in the material creation, they attempt to find escape by entering the impersonal (inactive or dormant) Brahmajyoti.

The fact is, the jiva-souls do NOT originate from the Impersonal Brahman (Brahmajyoti), the Body of Maha-Visnu or tatastha-sakti (all are fallen conditioned designation outside the spiritual world) as some believe.

ALL jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are eternal and come to the material world from the perpetual Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana.

Srila Prabhupada - ''Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence (impersonal Brahmajyoti) are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness [Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana]." (Letter to Revatinandana, LA 13 June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG, Ch 2 Text 12)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change." (BG, Ch 2 text 13 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul." (BG, Ch 2 text 17 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 19 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20 "corrected" 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?" (BG, Ch 2 text 21 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." (BG, Ch 2 text 22 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind." (BG, Ch 2 text 23 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same." (BG, Ch 2 text 24 1983 edition)

First of all, being "marginal" means having the choice to be influenced by either the spiritual energy (the jiva-souls nature position and full potential in the spiritual world) or by the material energy (unnatural conditioned state)

As said above, the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy (their natural constitution), or the material energy based on their free will.

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your question about our relationship with Srimati Radharani, She is the internal energy, we are marginal energy. Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy; we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)

There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada – "The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals." (Lecture BG, Ch 9 Text 4 Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)

No, the jiva-souls did not begin their existence by first entering the material world. That nonsense implies the jiva-souls have an origin when in fact they are eternal like Krsna and were NEVER created, only fools claim the jiva-souls originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti.

All jiva-souls are originally, meaning eternally from either the Vaikuntha planets, or Goloka-Vrindavana where they have existed eternally before entering the material world Prabhupada teaches.

Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls originated from some imaginary place in the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky called tatastha-sakti that some scholars, sangas, sannyasis and guru's foolishly claim.

There are no new jiva-souls Bhagavad Gita As It is teaches, we are eternal with no beginning or end meaning the jiva-souls did not originate from some nonsense imaginary place called tatastha-sakti.

Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG, Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)

Devotee - "What is the form of the spiritual body. If the spirit soul is non-material, what is the form?"

As said above, the original feature of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) is like Krsna's Bodily form, they do NOT originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti, tatastha-sakti or the Body of Maha-Visnu as some foolishly believe.

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Hari-sauri dasa– "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Hari-sauri dasa - "Are they covered in the spiritual world?"

Devotee - "If jiva-soul is non-material, so what is the form?

Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. If you have got... You have got leg; therefore your pant has got leg. Therefore it is to be assumed that the spirit soul has got form, and it has developed into hands, legs, heads, everything. It is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 Text 14, Mexico , Feb 14, 1975)

Devotee - "Śrīla Prabhupāda, you state that spirit soul has form."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, you have got body, shape." (SB, Canto 1 Ch 16 Text 24, Hawaii, Jan 20, 1974)

Srila Prabhupāda - "This material body we are in is existing on the spiritual body. Just like your shirt. The shirt is existing on your actual hand. The shirt has got a hand because you have got hand. So matter is impersonal. But because the superior prakṛti, jīva, he is person, therefore the matter appears like a person. Because I have got hands and legs, therefore this cloth has got hands and legs. Otherwise the cloth has no hands and legs; it is impersonal." (Lecture SB, Canto 3 Ch 26 Text 3, Bombay, Dec 15, 1974)

As said above, the meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy (their natural constitution), or the temporary decaying material energy, based on their free will.

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense, EVERYONE comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna, he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The jiva-souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Only the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) express themselves in seperate way from Krsna which means they have free will. This is because all the other Visnu-tattva personalities ARE Krsna just playing unlimited roles in other ways.

Mother Yasoda is not a jiva-soul, she is a direct expansion of Krsna (Visnu-tattva). In other words, just like Krsna is also Balarāma, and Krsna is also Radharani, Krsna can manifest Himself in different moods as different Visnu-tattva Personalities.

Srila Prabhupada - "Nanda and mother Yasoda are the eternal father & mother of Krsna. This means that whenever Krsna descends, Nanda and Yasoda, as well as Vasudeva and Devaki, also descend as the Lord's father and mother. Their personalities are expansions of Krsna's personal body." (SB, Canto 10.8.48)

As long as aspiring devotees hang out with foolish impersonal gurus and sannyasis, they will never understand these facts about tatastha-sakti, jiva-tattva, Visnu-tattva and Visnu-"sakti"-tattva.^**^.