The brāhmaṇa said - "My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world." (SB, Canto 4 Ch 28 text 53)
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) can fall down to the material world because they eternally have the free will in the spiritual world to choose to stay with Krsna, or do their own thing in the material world.
The marginal living entities (jiva-tattva, jiva souls or jivatma) can fall down to the temporary material world from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana if they chhose.
After all service in the spiritual world is always voluntary meaning the jiva-souls ALWAYS have a choice.
The marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls) CAN fall down to the material world because they eternally have "free will," and an independent personality separate from Visnu's and Krsna's Personality on the Vaikuntha planets, and on Goloka-Vrindavana (The perpetual Kingdoms of God)
Therefore, the jiva-souls can always choose to remain in the spiritual world, or enter the material world.
The jiva-souls do NOT originate from the material world, the impersonal brahman or the Body of Maha Visnu, which are all fallen conditions of the jiva-souls.
Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness." (Letter to Revatinandana dasa, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Devotee –"When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna there?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down, here it is explained that, "don’t fall down."
Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom (free will). Why one is not coming here but are going to the liquor shop instead? It is his desire."
Devotee – “But in Srimad Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come, just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?” Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence, your free will. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions and you come and enjoy." (Discussion with disciples, Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Question - Is there a place in the spiritual world from where the jiva-souls NEVER fall down?
Answer - Remaining or not remaining in the spiritual world is not based on a "place you can never fall down from" that will keep you safe on a Vaikuntha planet, or on Goloka-Vrindavana, no, it does not work that way.
This is because serving Krsna or Visnu is based on voluntarily making one's own choice of contributions on how to serve Krsna because if we are forced to love Krsna, then how can there be genuine voluntary love?
Loving relationships are always a "two-way" street based on reciprocation, loving exchanges and voluntary contributions.
Associating with Krsna and His pure devotees is never a slave domineering master/slave relationship that only destroys one's ability of self expression (free will) and a sense of individual existence.
Voluntary remaining on the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana in the spiritual world eternally, is based on the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) responsible execution of their free will and selfless love for Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes.
Being able to voluntarily choose to engage in loving exchanges in different ways while serving Krsna, is how devotional service really works in the spiritual world.
On the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, no two jiva-souls are the same, each has their own unique individual personality, character and spiritual bodily form eternally.
Even with such selfless emotions of loving devotion and dedication, the jiva-souls NEVER lose their free will, individuality identity and unique personality.
Each individual jiva-soul (marginal living entity) is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.
However, all jiva-souls have a separated existence from Krsna that He allows them to experience diversity, mystery and intrique.
The perpetual make up or constitution of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) is they always have the freedom in the spiritual world to voluntarily serve Krsna in so many ways, or reject Him.
In this way, each jiva-soul has their own individual sense of self, unique character, personality and spiritual bodily features in the spiritual world based on how they want to voluntarily serve Krsna or Visnu.
Srila Prabhupada - "The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary, some devotees want to serve Krsna as a flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna and become flower, voluntarily, and he can change from flower to human body, that is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 Text 1-4, Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
In the spiritual world ALL relationships with Krsna are "equally blissful to each other", just like one may like a carnation flower while others may choose to like a rose flower.
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) can NEVER lose their free will in the spiritual world which allows them to always voluntary choose how to serve Visnu on the Vaikuntha planets, or Kṛṣṇa on Goloka Vrindavana.
The individual jiva-souls in the spiritual world always voluntarily express themselves in their own unique way with their personal contributions they offer to Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have independence, you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence. If you persist that “I must enjoy independently,” God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position, if you persist, God sanctions. And you can come here and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada – "You are part and parcel of God and have your independence, if he likes, he can return, that independence has to be accepted, we can misuse that. Such misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly, that is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will." Where is "free will" then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no "free will." Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."
Hayagriva Dasa - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will, he misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions on Rene Descartes)
This infinitly (eternal) existing makeup of each individual jiva-soul has no beginning or end, and is part and parcel and the eternal constitution of every marginal living entity (jiva-soul) as Bhagavad Gita As It Is teaches.
This means the jiva-souls are always aware of their own individuality and independent nature that is separate from Krsna's Personality.
This is the different between the other type of living entities in the spiritual world known as Visnu-tattva, who are direct expansions of Krsna in the spiritual world, they are Krsna Himself playing a different role in His own pastimes.
Free will allows the individual jiva-souls to voluntarily contribute or serve Krsna in the way they choose, in the way they want, or NOT serve Krsna at all if they choose.
It is the jiva-soul's choice of what THEY want to offer and contribute to the Lord, which is the very best of their personal unique abilities and talents that they selflessly offer Krsna while serving the servants of the servants of the servants of Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavan or on one of the unlimited Vaikuntha planets.
Those jiva-souls who choose NOT to fall down from God's personal Kingdom in the spiritual world, is the jiva-souls personal responsibility and choice, and NOT Krsna.
It must be the choice of the jiva-souls to remain in the spiritual world or leave otherwise what is the point of having free will if one cannot decide for themselves what they want to do.
Free will means always having a choice and that includes living the the perpetual spiritual world, or living in the temporary material world.
Not even Kṛṣṇa interferes with the choices of the jiva-souls because Krsna NEVER forces us to love Him.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada explains in "Nectar of Devotion", that just like the Sun cannot be separated from the Sun-rays, similarly Krsna is meaningless without the association of His loving devotees.
And in Krsna Book Prabhupada also further explains-
Srila Prabhupada - "As the sun disc and the sunshine cannot be separated, Kṛṣṇa and His bodily rays, the brahmajyoti, cannot be separated." (Krsna Book, 89)
The relationship between Krsna and the jiva-soul is NEVER one-sided, never forced, never impersonal, it is ALWAYS reciprocal, nurturing, personal and voluntary, in a mood of good exchanges and feelings, ONLY then can there be REAL love.
Srila Prabhupada explained to us many years ago-
“If you love me, then I will love you” as an example that there must always be loving cooperation on a "two-way street" responding in kindness."
The fact is 90% of all living entities choose NOT fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana because they "choose" not to do so. That "choice" is always with the marginal living entities or jiva-souls as well.
The jiva-souls (marginal living entity) have 78.125% of Krsna's quantities, which means they have 50 of Krsna's 64 qualities.
This puts the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in the realm of having their own "sense of independent self, identity, personality, individuality, and the ability to choose for themselves. This means the jiva-souls have the ability to agree, or not agree with Krsna if they choose.
This sense of individuality allows the jiva-soul or jivatma the right to choose Krishna or choose to be separate from Krishna and enter the material creation.
Remember, Maya or the material energy, does NOT exist on the Vaikuntha planets or in Goloka-Vrindavana, so Maya is unknown to the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) in both the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
However, having "free will, individuality, independence, experiencing a unique sense of individual self, and the ability to express all these qualities is eternally the constitutional makeup of all marginal living entities jiva-souls in Vaikuntha.
This is because they have 78.125% of Krsna's qualities that makes them minor expansions of the Lord with their OWN personality unlike the direct Visnu-tattva expansions who all have 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities (93.75%) They ARE Krsna just playing another role in His own pastimes.
If free will is taken away from the marginal living entities, then we lose the ability to give and accept love, we become no better than dead stone or mindless robot.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974).
For love to truly exist, the jiva-souls (jivatma or jiva-tattva) MUST have the free will and right as part of their marginal constitutional make up, to choose in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana at all times.
Sadly, a small minority of jiva-souls do choose to leave the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavan (less than 10%), regardless of how some have foolishly rejected that such fall downs can not happen.
They wrongly claim those in the spiritual world can never fall to the material world which is really saying they have no free will in the spiritual world.
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
In the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana, the individual jiva-souls are never denied their independent nature of voluntary service. The jiva-souls never attempt to extinguish their individual identity, independent contributions, free will and unique character and personality, thinking by giving these up is the real meaning of surrendering to Krsna. No, actually this loveless idea of surrender is impersonalism and spiritual suicide.
Being the unique individual PERSON the jiva-souls eternally are, they always have their free will in the spiritual world. This allows them to voluntarily serve Krsna the way the choose, or reject His assocition also.
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism)
If the rebellious jiva-souls want, they can stay in the temporary material world for an almost eternity, they CAN stay in the temporary decaying material universe's cycles of birth and death and cycles of annihilation and creations for an "almost" infinity! Or within the "inactive" formless impersonal brahman (brahmajyoti).
However, both the material world and impersonal brahmajyoti are also temporary places for the jiva-souls, even though they can stay there for many, many creations of Maha-Visnu ( His breathing in and out).
Both being in the material world, and being merged in the impersonal brahmajyoti, are also temporary, meaning at any time, if the fallen jiva-souls choose, they can return back home back to Godhead.
Having free will enables the jiva-souls to contribute in their own way instead of being like a puppet controlled by the strings of the puppet master.
To voluntarily serve Krsna in one's own unique way is what surrender really means.
Having individual freedom (free will) is basis of who the jiva-souls are as an independent PERSON. This is the constitutional make up of every marginal living entity (jiva-soul).
To say those in Vaikuntha will "never ever fall down" IS true - but ONLY for those who choose NOT to fall down."
In other words, if the jiva-soul wants to leave the spiritual world, they certainly can at any time.
To make a blanket comment that "not even the leaves fall and leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana" does not take into consideration the free will of the jiva-souls.
Those comments claiming the jiva-souls can never falls down from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana may have been said for many reasons, to give faith among aspiring devotees and neophytes, or to encourage them to understand that their constitutional position IS to NEVER choose to leave Vaikuntha, and NEVER desire to leave once they are in Vaikuntha.
However, to leave and end up in the material creation is ultimately the jiva-soul's choice, and Krsna does not interfere with that, even though Krsna has promised there is no return to the material creation. The fact is, there IS return if the jiva-souls want to return.
Srila Prabhupada explains here the jiva-souls CAN fall down from both the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Acyutananda – "But in the Bhagavad Gita, it says, “Once coming to the spiritual world, he never returns, He can return?"
Srila Prabhupada – “If he likes he can return, that is voluntary."
Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb, 19, 1976)
Returning home back to Godhead is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada also explains here, that choice to stay or go is always the jiva-souls choice and not just Krsna dictating His will over the jiva-souls.
For love to truly exist with the jiva-souls, they MUST have the the right to choose to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka Vrindavana at anytime.
Therefore, returning back home back to Godhead is NOT necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains here-
Syamasundara - "Can we predict that the process (returning back home back to Godhead) will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, but some come back."
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."
Syamasundara - "And some come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "9Otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."
Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no question of permanent because he has got independence, he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is NOT to come back. but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again". (Discussions with Syamasundara on Henri Bergson philosophy)
For those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha, have NOT understood the variety of living entities (jiva-tattva and Visnu-tattva) in Vaikuntha, and that it is only a very small minority of "jiva-souls" who can choose to leave and not the Visnu-tattva expansions of Krsna.
They have NOT understood there are many different inhabitants of Vrindavana who are Viṣṇu-tattva and never fall down because they are Krsna playing a different role,
The Visnu-sakti-tattvas are also Krsna Himself playing another role in His pastimes, they never fall down because they ARE simultaneously eternal associates and Krsna Himself experiencing Himself in unlimited extended ways.
So for the Visnu-tattvas, Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas, they choose like Krsna because they ARE Krsna just playing a different role.
And for over 90% of jiva-souls who do have the ability to choose as an independent person, they also never fall down because they NEVER "choose" to fall down.
Devotee - “Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back”.
Srila Prabhupada - “No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, “Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man,” I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become." (Discussions with Syamasundara Dasa).
However, there will always be a very small minority of only the jiva tattvas (not the Vishnu-sakti-tattva or Vishnu-tattva "direct expansions"of Krishna) who misuse their ability to "choose" and leave if they desire.
Free will is eternal in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan, and without our ‘sovereignty as a living being’ to either forget or remember Krishna, then we would not have any individuality, no independent personality and no ability to love, we would simply be mindless ''yes man and woman'' like machine drones in a factory.
Srila Prabhupada - “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada – "You are part and parcel of God and have your independence, if he likes, he can return, that independence has to be accepted, we can misuse that. Such misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
Krsna has many different energies. Jiva is one, Matter is one, the consorts of the Lord are one.
Technically we are all sakti-tattva however there are different categories, we are the jiva tattva (jiva-soul) living entities known as the the ''marginal energy'' while others are Visnu-"sakti"-tattva (93.75% of Krsna’s qualities) known as the ''internal potency or energy headed by Srimati Radharani.
The Visnu-"sakti"-tattva and Visnu-tattva Personalities are ''the eternal inhabitants of Vrindavana who can never fall down or choose to forget Krsna because THEY are direct expansions of Krsna Himself and part of His internal energies or potency of unlimited expansions and associates.
For example the Pancha-tattva are a combination of sakti-tattva and Visnu-tattva Personalities with only one being jiva-soul.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, and Śrīvāsādi. Śrīvāsādi means jīva-tattva. The jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, viṣṇu-tattva, these are all tattvas. So Pañca-tattva. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is the supreme tattva, Kṛṣṇa. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. We are worshipping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa combined." (Lecture CC Adi-lila 7.5, Mayapur, March 7, 1974)
Sakti-tattva is not exactly Visnu-tattva even though Sakti-tattva is also called Visnu-"sakti"-tattva.
The correct understanding is that all of Krsna’s energies are under the broad category of sakti-tattva.
Srila Prabhupada - ''There are Viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva and sakti-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva is the Supreme Absolute Truth, jīva-tattva is part and parcel, and sakti-tattva is the energy of God." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 5 text 15, New Vrindaban, June 19, 1969)
Technically a personality who is sakti-tattva are really 'Visnu-sakti-tattva' because they are direct expansions of Krsna also having 93.75% of Krsna's qualities like the Visnu tattva expansions have.
Sakti-tattva the energy of Krsna are eternally occupied with their service to the Lord, such expansions have only the desire to please Krsna or His Visnu expansion, they can never be covered by Maya and their concept of free will and independence is only to please Krsna or Vishnu because they ARE indirect and direct expansions of Godhead with 93.75% of Krsna's qualities (60 of Krsna's 64 qualities).
Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana are made up of many sakti-Visnu-tattvas and Vishnu-tattvas expansions such as gopis, gopas and many, many others.
There is also jiva-tattvas playing many roles too in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrndavana as well, just like the Visnu-sakti-tattva are, but they are jiva-tattva (jiva-soul).
Inrindavana, no one knows who is who, who is jiva-tattva, who is sakti-Visnu-tattva or who is Visnu-tattva, they do not even know this little boy Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the cause of all causes, nor do they care.
As already explained, Visnu- -tattva, like Visnu-tattva expansions, can never fall down because they are one of Krsna's many personalities. Krsna is the ORIGINAL Form of God from whom ALL His Visnu and Narayana Visnu-tattva forms expand from.
This means the only difference between Srimati Radharani and Krsna, and Lord Balarama and Krsna, is Lord Krsna IS the Supreme Personality of Godhead and ORIGINAL cause of all causes.q
And that Krishna also has 4 MORE qualities than both Radharani (Sakti-Vishnu-tattva expansion) and Balarama (Vishnu-tattva expansion) explained below.
Therefore, not even Srimati Radharani, Krishna's eternal consort, or Balarama, Krishna's older brother, have 64 unique qualities like Krishna has, they have ONLY 60 of Krishna's 64 qualities which is 93.75% of Krishna's 100%.
Let's make this easy to understanding -
Lord Krsna has 64 qualities which is having 100% of His own qualities.
Visnu-tattva has 60 qualities or 93.75% of Krsna's quantities
Visnu-sakti-tattva has 60 qualities of Krsna's 64 qualities or 93.75%.
Siva-tattva has 54 qualities or 85.938% of Krsna's qualities.
Jiva-tattva (jiva-soul) has 50 qualities or 78.125% of Krsna's qualities.
The jiva-tattvas 78.125% of Krsna's qualities, can NEVER tattva or Visnu-tattvas who have 93.75% of Krsna’s qualities.
And jiva-tattvas can never lose their separate individual unique sense of independence self from Krishna either, even though technically all living entities are "Sakti tattva" expansions of Krishna that are fully dependent on Krishna like the sun rays are expansions that emanate from the Sun.
Even though being parts and parcel of the Lord, the jivatma or jiva tattva souls still has "their own" sense of being an separate independent free thinking individual from Krishna.
Srila Prabhupada - ''The words bṛhate namas te have been explained by Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura: bṛhate śrī-kṛṣṇāya. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa the maintainer of all and cause of all causes. We are "separate and none separate" from Krishna simultaneously. There are many tattvas, such as viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva and śakti-tattva, but above everything is the viṣṇu-tattva, which is all-pervading.
This all-pervading feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is explained in Bhagavad-gītā (10.42), wherein the Lord says:
athavā bahunaitena
kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna
viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam
ekāṁśena sthito jagat
"But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."
Thus Kṛṣṇa says that the entire material world is maintained by His partial representation as Paramātmā. The Lord enters every universe as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu and then expands Himself as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu to enter the hearts of all living entities and even enter the atoms.
Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Every universe is full of atoms, and the Lord is not only within the universe but also within the atoms.
Thus within every atom the Supreme Lord exists in His Viṣṇu feature as Paramātmā, but all the viṣṇu-tattvas emanate from Kṛṣṇa.
As confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (10.2), aham ādir hi devānām: Kṛṣṇa is the ādi, or beginning, of the devas of this material world—Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara. Therefore He is described here as bhagavate bṛhate. (Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 8 Chapter 3 text 17)
The jiva-tattva that has 78.125% of Krishna's qualities are called the ''marginal energy''
The jiva tattva soul is different from direct expansion of the Lord like the Sakti-Vishnu-tattvas and Vishnu tattvas. However, all can play the part of gopis, cowherd boys in Krishna lila.infinity
Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana have so many expansions of Krishna that it is mind boggling.
The jiva-tattva can play the role of a gopa or gopi like a Sakti-Vishnu-tattva and Vishnu-tattva but NEVER be Sakti-Vishnu-tattva or Vishnu-tattva who are Krishna Himself expanded as multiple personalities.
The jiva-tattvas can ALWAYS choose in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan, and play many roles including Brahma however, the marginal living entity ALWAYS remains jiva-tattva and can NEVER become God (Visnu-tattva)
The jiva-tattvas, unlike Sakti-vishnu-tattva and Vishnu tattvas, can 'choose' to forget Krishna if they desire and enter the mahat tattva or material creation of Maha Vishnu as nitya baddha and think they are an independent god. Vishnu-tattvas and Sakti-vishnu-tattva do not do that because they ARE direct expansion of Krishna and only carry out the will of God.
Our eternal constitution position and eternal spiritual body is already there in Vaikuntha waiting for us to wake up from this temporary material dream and return back home back to Godhead.
Just like Jaya and Vijaya's eternal position as gatekeepers of Vaikuntha is always there waiting for their return from falling down into the material creation.
In Vaikuntha there is no concept of past and future time, only the ''individual awareness" of the "eternal presence'' of Krishna and being a dependent unique person and sense of the "self" that eternally exists there in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
This is how we know all the universe is not ''all-one" with an all pervading consciousness that plays out different roles while contained in different material bodily vessels.
Except for Krishna and His unlimited direct Vishnu-tattva and Vishnu-Sakti-tattvas expansions, we are all individual jiva-tattva soul expansions with our own unique sense of self and personality.
Therefore we never lose our independence and sense of self as an individual identity of being a "person"
Even a blade of grass, leaf, tree, clouds, rain drops, grains of sand and dirt or chair is a Person in Goloka.
Everything there is alive!
Of course in the material world our individuality becomes covered by many different species of material bodies but underneath it all the jivatma or jiva tattva is there as an individual.
Therefore it is very important we understand we have a "sense of independence and individuality as jiva-tattva souls". And this is what "marginal" means, that makes us the unique individual "persons" we eternally are.
To say you can never leave Goloka once there is true for most but not all because we can choose to miss use our free will. Without having that choice, Prabhupada says we are no better than dead stone that would not be able to give love or receive love.
And yes, many devotees have found this subject’s true meaning in Sastra very difficult to understand and therefore call it inconceivable rather than attempting to understand it, or believe others understand it.
Like making "choices" (that allows one to increase their “unique” individual expression of love for Krishna) is always with the marginal living entity even in Vaikuntha, and to take that ability (the sense of self) away from the marginal living entity in Vaikuntha, the jiva-tattva soul loses the individual ability to “give and accept love”.
This is because without free will we lose our sense of independence as a person of having a unique separate identity from all of other individual jiva-tattva souls, Vishnu tattvas, and Krishna Himself. These are important points to understand.
We, the jiva-tattva souls are independent thinking souls eternally but simultaneously part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krishna the cause of all causes meant to please the Lord as the unique “persons”.
Therefore, no one can force the jiva-soul to stay in Vaikuntha, that choice MUST be eternally yours (the jivat-soul)
Only Vishnu-tattvas and Vishnu-Sakti-tattvas never fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana because they ARE direct expansions of Krishna, playing different roles in Krishna's pastimes and have 93.75% of Krishna’s qualities (60 out of Krishna's 64 qualities) making them direct full expansions of Krishna Himself.
Some Vishnu-Sakti-tattvas are gopis including Radharani, gopas, parents, lovers etc many, many different personalities.
Krisna’s brother Balarama is Vishnu-tattva, Srimati Radharani is Vishnu-Sakti-tattva expansion of Krishna, and many others are too, playing different parts in Krishna Lila.
Just like in Lord Caitanya’s pastimes where many are Vishnu-tattvas and Vishnu-Sakti-tattvas playing many of His devotees.
It is ONLY these residents of Vrindavana who NEVER fall down into forgetfulness.
And the fact is, more than 90% of jiva-tattva souls also “choose” to stay in Vaikuntha and NEVER fall down, which means entering the material creation seeking selfish desires.
All jiva-tattvas have only 78.125% of Krishna’s qualities (50 out of Krishna's 64 qualities) can leave if they choose.
To be in Vaikuntha does not always guarantee you will stay there forever and never enter the material world again.
Although as already explained 90% never choose to forget Krishna because that is their desire and expression of free will, sadly some jiva souls DO choose to leave or fall from Vaikuntha however, Prabhupada explains it is only a very small minority who foolishly make that choice, less than 10%.
Dr. John Mize – “Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?”
Srila Prabhupada – “No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down”. (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Let's clear one thing up, falling into the material world has absolutely nothing to do with maya or the material energy because maya does not and can not exist in Vaikuntha.
The jiva-souls do not even know Maya or the material energy exists, however, they do have "free will and the ability to choose" and are aware that this quality is “eternally” part and parcel of the jiva-tattva’s makeup and exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
We do not lose our independence and sense of individual identity once we enter Vaikuntha, we are eternally independent living entities even in Vaikuntha.
However, we always depend of Krishna in Vaikuntha, or His many Vishnu-tattva expansions like Maha Vishnu and Garbhodakashayi Vishnu who provide all facilities in the material creation.
We can never be truly independent because everything, all that is, belongs to Krishna. In other words we are always independent living entities but always depend on Krishna for our existence, just like the Sun-rays cannot exist without the Sun.
The fact is because we CAN "choose to be with Krishna or reject Him", then there can be increasing endeavors of loving exchange and reciprocation due to “choice”.
This is one of the reasons why the material universe was created - to give "reality" to that choice of rejecting and forgetting Krishna, just so the living entity can go to another place outside Vaikuntha and try to enjoy life without being Krishna conscious.
The marginal living entity or jiva-tattva souls MUST have that free will to choose to be with Krishna, or not be with Krishna if they want, instead of just being in Vaikuntha without having no choice or free will at all as some believe.
Such mentality that denies free will is actually impersonalism.
The point made here is the position of the jiva-tattva soul in Vaikuntha must be voluntary.
Who you love and who you choose to serve MUST be voluntary.
Many cannot understand these facts about the importance of free will, individuality, identity and the sense of self worth of being a unique person who can give selfless ever increasing love or service in their own way to Krishna.
These qualities are based on the importance of the individual's ability to have "choices" within their experiences as a individual person.
Once again to be truly free there must be the choice of Vaikuntha or its so called opposite where Krishna can be forgotten, the "material creation"
Without the jiva-tattva souls being able to choose Krishna or not there can never be love, Prabhupada has said to force love is called rape.
Srila Prabhupada - ''So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could become the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking”.
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?
Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”
Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
It takes only free will to live separately from Krishna and this choice has nothing to do with maya or material energy as explained above - it is simple free will that allows us to be a independent person and enter the material creation too.
To do that one is given material bodies, a subtle and gross body that covers the spiritual form.
In the material world, the jivatma has to put up with the gross material body always being in a state of decay and then eventually being forced to take another gross material body.
Also once in the material creation, you're on your own terms, you are responsible therefore karma begins as soon as you leave Vaikuntha.
No jiva-tattva souls originate from the dormant Brahmajyoti ot Brahman. Jiva sous often fall to impersonal Brahman or Brahmajyoti, but NEVER did the jiva-tattva souls originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti as Srila Prabhupada tells us.
Srila Prabhupada - ''The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness.Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down’’. (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha”. (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” (Original Hare Krsna "Happening record album" New York December 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down.” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Srila Prabhupada - ''The actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha, because God is eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal. So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sadhana-siddha. (Caitanya-caritamrta, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - ''By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them. It is a difficult task'' - (New York lecture on Caitanya-caritamrta, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Mahā-Viṣṇu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation”. (SB 4.29.83 Purport
Once, an Indian political leader, Syamasundara Chakravarti, asked Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada.
“Why has the Lord granted such freedom to the jiva soul?”
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta told him, “You are fighting for freedom. Don’t you know the value of freedom? Devoid of freedom, the soul is only matter.”
Freedom offers us the alternative to do right or wrong. Once, Gandhi told the British authorities, ”We want freedom.”‘ They replied, “You are not fit to have self-government. When you are fit, we shall give it to you.” But finally, he told them, “We want the freedom to do wrong.” So, freedom does not guarantee only acting in the right way; freedom has its value independent of right and wrong.
Free will is only absolute with the Absolute Truth. Because we are finite our free will is infinitesimal. The possibility of committing a mistake is there. Our first choice was to dominate and so, gradually we have entered the world of domination. As a result of this first action, everything else has developed.
So, in different ranks the species have been divided from the demigods down to the trees and stones. And watery bodies, gaseous bodies, anything that we find here has evolved in that way. The activating principle in any form of embryological development is the soul, and from the soul, everything has evolved.” (End of quote)
Srila Prabhupada makes our "original position" with Krishna very clear.
And yes, maya cannot be blamed for our fall down from Vaikuntha in any way because She, in her role as the personification of material energy, does NOT exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, nothing material can exist there.
But free will does and always will exist in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana. Therefore "we" are responsible for our choices and actions.
Srila Prabhupada on the other hand chose to come here to serve Krishna's plan to attract the fallen souls in the material universe back home back to Godhead.
Many devotees also come here to preach Krishna Consciousness.
There are three ways the jiva-tattva souls can come here to the material creation.
1 - As a devotee who preaches God Consciousness.
2 - As a devotee who plays the part as a great demon like Jai and Vijayi the gatekeepers of Vaikuntha.
3 - And those who "choose" to just forget and give up Krishna's association and do their own thing in the material creation.
Also one can never have material desires in Vaikuntha because Maya does NOT exist there.
Maya cannot be blamed for tempting us and causing our fall down from Vaikuntha in any way because She, in her role as the personification of material energy, does NOT exist in Vaikuntha.
Nothing material can exist there.
But ''free will'', ''independence'' and ''individuality'' does and always will exist in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
We therefore leave because of free will and the ability to choose to accept or reject Krishna.
As an individual ''person'' endowed with independent thought and identity, we are able to make such chooses.
What does the majority of people think being a "PERSON" really means after you surrender to Krishna?
1 - Do they think it is becoming some "yes man or women" of Krishna in His Kingdom where one becomes a mindless none thinking denier of the "individual self" who has unique qualities that makes you an individual?
2 - Do they think surrender means we give up our individuality? Sadly, so many have no idea what real "personalism" is which is a word tied to individuality.
The idea of "don't think just do what your told" is impersonalist nonsense because it denies ''you'' to use your own abilities and talents to contribute something unique to your personality that no one else may have.
So no, "you" DO NOT give up your independent individuality and sense of self worth and esteem to be fully surrendered and "dependant" on Krishna, maintaining that giving up individuality is part of surrendering.
In fact in Goloka your individual independence and dependence on Krishna go together side by side increasing simultaneously at the same time and is always expanding in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
It takes spiritual intelligence to understand what real surrender is, and that includes understanding ‘’you’’ are eternally an independent individual person with your own sense of "individual self" separate from all other individual jiva souls.
Although Krishna always accompanies all jiva tattva souls as a friend and witness to the jiva-souls individual choices and actions because we are eternally parts and parcels of the Lord.
Please read the above essay again, it explains we are all "unique individual persons" who are endowed with independent qualities allowing one to eternally give "THEIR OWN" best to Krishna.
The jiva-tattva is not part of an "all one programmed none thinking impersonal collective" within God's Kingdom, no, that is a description of what hell is like.
Impersonalism means believing that in Vaikuntha we give up our free will, independence and individuality and become part of an "all one collective consciousness"
Living an impersonal existence is to be devoid of individual thought that does not allow personal contributions that makes ''you'', who you really are, as a person, as Krishna's eternal servant, as a unique living entity who can contribute the best of ''their'' individual abilities to Krishna.
On the other hand personalism means the individual jiva must be able to grow and flourish as an independent living being giving their own personal contributions of devotional service to Krishna.
To ''deny'' the jiva tattva's ''individuality'' and ''independent sense of identity'' is the hell "real" Krishna devotees fear.
Many have an impersonalist idea about what Vaikuntha is like and do not even know it. Only when the living entity desires not to be with Krishna do they enter the material world and realize Maya's existences.
Paramahamsa - “But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return."
Srila Prabhupada - “There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is”.
Paramahamsa - “If we want”.
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes."
Paramahamsa - “So we can come to the spiritual world and return?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.
Paramahamsa - “Fall down?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go.” Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness. So, they want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students, Krsna conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare, nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare. The police is there. Just like the police car was there. We have nothing to do with it. But if you do anything criminal, immediately you will be arrested, under police custody. The maya may be there, but maya captures him who is not a devotee of Krsna. That’s all. Therefore, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, maya does not interfere anymore."
Paramahamsa - 'So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these bodies; and our desire to achieve Krsna brings us to our natural position."
Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)
Therefore, the are responsible for our choices and actions and in the material creation free will almost does not exist because one is binded by their own reactions to their pious and impious deeds (karma)
Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa, 4/25/1970)
Srila Prabhupada – Regarding your several questions: Where are the spirit souls coming from that are taking microbe bodies? It is not a matter of any particular body. These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no “ NEW” soul. “New'’ and “old'’ are due to this material body, but the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be new soul?'' (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa 7/9/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence." (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa 02/27/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "The relationship with Krishna is never lost, it is simply forgotten by the influence of maya, so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new." (Letter to Jagadisa Dasa 02/27/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva soul is called as Krsna’s marginal energy." (Letter to Rayarama, Dec 2, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position." (BG, As It Is, Introduction)
Srila Prabhupada - “Originally all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are nitya-siddha which means eternally liberated." (SB, lecture Canto 7 Ch 9 text 4 Mayapur, Feb 18, 1977)
HERE HERE HERE
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body." (Germany, June 22, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada – "In the Padma Purana, wherein it is said that there are two kinds of spiritual entities; one is called the jiva-soul (jiva-tattva), and the other is called the Supreme Lord (Visnu-tattva)." (87th Ch of Krsna Book, "Prayers by the Personified Vedas.")
So what does Srila Prabhupada mean when he says less than 10% of jiva-souls fall down from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana.
Dr. John Mize – "Did all the jiva-souls who were in the spiritual world, fall out of the spiritual world at once, or at different times? Or are there jiva-souls whose are always good, they’re not foolish and therefore never fall down?"
Srila Prabhupada – "No, majority, 90%, they are always good, they never fall down."
Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%."
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are… Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down."
Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a jiva-soul is going to be foolish and fall?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient”.
Dr. John Mize – "Are more souls falling all the time?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence… Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, “Where is the criminal? You are constructing…” Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency."
Dr. John Mize – "The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka) is…?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes."
Dr. John Mize – "From where does that tendency come?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says,yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like." (BG lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
So the conclusion is Srimad Bhagavatam explains the fall down of the jiva from Vaikuntha found in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 text 53 of Srimad Bhagavatam where the Supreme Lord is disguised as a brahmana-
The brāhmaṇa continued - "My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world."
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