This is difficult to understand because ultimately Krsna is both an individual Person, and similtaneously all-pervasive and all-one with both His spiritual and material creations.
But this needs to be understood correctly.
Everything is part and parcel of Krsna who also resides both as "all-one" and as "an individual Person" within every material atom in the material world. Everywhere Krsna exists as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.
Many do not properly understand the difference between dead decaying matter (lifeless all pervasive material energy) and anti-matter (eternal living individual spiritual life forms that make up the entire spiritual world)
There is a fine line between the "all-one" material energy in the material world that is the oneness of "all pervasive impersonal dead matter, and the eternal individual living life force in the spiritual world.
Only the "all-pervasive dead material energy," and NOT the eternal individual living spiritual energy (anti-matter), is "all-one," appearing as that "all-pervasive impersonal dead matter" in the material world.
This impersonal dead material energy covers the eternal living individual marginal living entities (jiva-souls) temporarily in the material world, then breaks down and merges back into the "oneness" of material energy, just like a river flows to the sea and merges into the "oneness" of the ocean.
The individual eternal jiva-soul (anti-matter) is not affected by the constant changing of the external temporary material bodily vessels (matter) the individual jiva-souls are in as passengers.
Therefore "material energy" (matter) is "all-one and all-pervasive" and NOT the spiritual energy which is living anti-matter individual living entities eternally.
Only the individual marginal living entities (jiva-souls) can be covered by temporary matter (a material bodily vessel) in the material world and not Kṛṣṇa and His direct expansions.
Another point to try and understand, that can be difficult, is Krsna is both an individual Person and similtaneously all-pervasive and all-one with both His spiritual and material creations.
Everything is part and parcel of Krsna who also resides both as "all-one" and as "an individual Person" within every material atom in the material world. Everywhere Krsna exists as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.
Krsna and His direct Visnu-tattva expansions (also God) are never covered by the temporary decaying material energy that does not exist in the spiritual world.
The eternal individual jiva-souls (anti-matter) in the material world are covered by a temporary material bodily vessel that eventually decays and breaks down and merges back into the "oneness" of dead material energy.
Living spiritual energy IS the unlimited individual eternal spiritual bodily personalities that make up the spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Personalised living spiritual energy begins with Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, and His Visnu-tattva expansion, Lord Siva and the jiva-souls expansions also all have eternal bodily individual spiritual forms.
Living spiritual energy is NOT "all-one" like dead matter (material energy) is.
The spiritual energy is an eternal collective of individual spiritual persons perpetually, always as individual spiritual bodilyforms.
In this way the spiritual energy IS a collective of eternal individual indestructible bodily personalities.
Srila Prabhupada - "God is also human form, "man is made after the shape of God." So Kṛṣṇa is also like human form, two hands, two legs." The human form is also the full manifestation of the jiva-soul." (Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
Krsna's spiritual Body and the eternal spiritual bodily forms of His jiva-soul expansions, are NOT "all-one" like the material energy is, they are endowed with eternal individuality.
For example, when one's material bodily vessel they are in as a passenger eventually decomposes and ceases to work, the material bodily vessel breaks down and those elements merge back into the "oneness" of dead material energy.
While the eternal living individual jiva-soul covered by that temporary decaying material bodily vessel-
1 - Moves on to newer yet temporary material bodily vessel,
2 - Merge as an individual dormant (inactive) spark within the impersonal Brahmajyoti.
3 - Or again enters the eternal spirtual realm of the Vaikuṇṭha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Being an "inactive" (dormant) so-called spiritual spark in the Brahmajyoti, is an already fallen unnatural condition of the jiva-soul, who in their full potential are a spiritual bodily PERSON fully active like Krsna in the spiritual world serving Him, which is the jiva-soul's natural eternal home.
Krsna's effulgence is known as the dormant (impersonal) Brahmajyoti made up of a collective of "inactive"(dormant) individual jiva-souls appearing there as spiritual sparks in their "fallen conditional state."
Entering that "fallen condition" as a spiritual spark is the unnatural impersonal condition of the individual jiva-soul, who in their full spiritual potential IS an eternal PERSON as a spiritual bodily form made of-
sat, cit, ananda, vigraha.
Which means,
eternity, knowledge, bliss, individual bodily spiritual form.
The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls), is a eternal "two-arm form" like Krsna's Body.
Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit soul is NOT formless; it has got form, the spirit soul always has form and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. But with our material eyes at the present, our gross eyes, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14 Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
Devotee - "What is the form of the spiritual body. If the spirit soul is non-material, what is the form?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "There is form, just like this material body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. You have got legs; therefore your pant has got legs. Therefore it is to be assumed that the spirit soul always has got form, and is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything. The spirit soul is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say and foolishly believe it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
Devotee - "Śrīla Prabhupāda, you state that the eternal individual spirit soul has form."
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, otherwise, how is the material body grown to accommodate the spirit soul? Just like a shirt has no form, but when it's put on the body, it takes the shapes of a particular body."
Devotee - So does that mean the spirit is the shape of a bodily form?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, you have got body, a shape (form), very minute shape that we cannot see, we cannot measure. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "anumeyam," what is that word used? Aprameyam, you cannot measure but it has a form. What is the length and breadth of that form? That is not in your power to understand, but it is NOT material, the soul is an individual spiritual form eternally. If you have the spiritual power then you can measure it. And that measurement is also given in the śāstra. What is that? One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Hair is a very small point. And divide it into ten thousand parts. That one part is the measure, magnitude of the soul.
keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya
śatadhā kalpitasya ca
jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ
sa cānantyāya kalpate
(CC Madhya 19.140)
Everything is there, but you have no eyes to see, how to see one ten-thousandth portion of the top of the hair? You cannot see even the original top of the hair. We must have the proper eyes." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 16 text 24 Hawaii, Jan 20, 1974)
Hayagrīva dasa - "Aquinas believed that God is the only single essence that consists of pure form, he felt that matter is only a potential and, in order to be real, must assume a certain shape or form-
Aquinas comment - "Being in the material universe we have to acquire an individual form in order to actualize ourselves. When matter comes together and appears as form, that form then gives an object made of matter its individuality and personality. In other words, when matter is as an individual form, it gives an object its individuality and personality."
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, but matter has no form because it has no life. The spirit soul has got form because it is eternal life (anti-matter). Although, because matter in the material world is covering the individual spiritual form of the spirit soul when they come to the material world, the matter (material energy) only appears to have form and be alive. That appearance that matter has life is only due to the presence of the individual spirit soul. Just like the original cloth has no form, but when the tailor cuts the cloth according to the body of the person, then the shirt and coat takes a form. Matter itself has no form, when you take clay, it has no form, but if you make it like a doll, like a man or woman, then it has a form. So lifeless form and formlessness is only in the material energy, but in the spiritual world everything has got form as individual life. The spirit soul is form, God has got eternal form, He is all-pervasive but similtaneously has eternal spiritual form, that is Krsna, this is the truth."
Hayagrīva dasa - "Aquinas believed that only God and the angels have form that is not material. There is no difference between God's form and His spiritual self."
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, as in the material world, the external material form of man or beast or any material bodily form in all the species, is simply vessels that house the eternal spirtual soul. Such material vessels are the outward, external coverings made of matter, but within that matter or material bodily vessel, is life, the eternal individual soul. The soul has form and God has form, that is real form. Lifless material form is simply shirting and coating over the spiritual body (life)." (Discussion on Thomas Aquinas philosophy)
Hayagrīva dasa - "He considered that matter was necessary to give the soul form."
Srila Prabhupāda - "No, the soul has got an original form."
Hayagrīva dasa - "Original form?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."
Hayagrīva dasa - "Which is the form of the spiritual body?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "The original form of the individual spirit soul is like Krsna's Body which is the form of the spirit."
Hayagrīva dasa - "Of the spirit?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, and the form of the outer material body takes place on account of the individual form of the spirit soul. Here is very nice example, the cloth has no form, but when it is cut according to the form of the gentleman, it takes a form. Similarly, dead matter has no form but when it is coated on the spiritual individual form of the soul, it takes the shape of the spiritual form. This is very easy to understand." (Philosophy Discussion on Thomas Aquinas beliefs)
Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."
Hari-sauri dasa – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"
Srila Prabhupada – [describing material form first]: "Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the eternal individual soul's form."
Hari-sauri dasa - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is voluntary, some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 Text 1-4, Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
The individual jiva-souls are eternal spiritual living PERSONS and can never be destroyed, terminated or extinguished, the jiva-souls are indestructible.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG, Ch 2 Text 12)
Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 9 July 1970)
There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls), who have existed for as long as Krsna has existed which is eternity as explained above in Bhagavad Gita As It Is.
The original eternal form of the marginal living entity (jiva-soul) in their eternal home of the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana, is originally a "two-arm form" like Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavana, or later on due to choice (free will), the four armed form on the Vaikuntha planets.
Krsna is always the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes and not a blade of grass can move unless sanctioned by Him.
As said above, appearing in that "fallen condition" as a spiritual spark is the unnatural condition of the jiva-soul, who in their full potential, IS an active PERSON as a spiritual bodily form happily voluntarily engaged in the service of Krsna or Visnu.
Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal Brahmajyoti is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness, it is already a fallen condition therefore, those who are in the brahman effulgence, they are also in a fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. We do not accept anyone elevated to the brahman effulgence as actually liberated, the living entities first falling down to this material world are NOT from the impersonal brahman. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition and that non-fallen condition is Krsna cconsciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is NOT fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down. Those who are thinking that they are liberated by being situated in brahman effulgence are described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam as impurely intelligent. So, we do not accept anyone elevated to the brahman effulgence as actually liberated. In other words, they are actually not liberated, and because they are not actually liberated they again come down to the material world." (Letter to Revatinandana dasa, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness, so how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)
As said above, appearing in that "fallen condition" as a bodiless "spiritual spark" is the unnatural condition of the jiva-soul, who in their full potential IS a PERSON as a spiritual bodily form originally like Krsna's form. Therefore, the full potential and original feature of all eternal marginal living entities (individual jiva-souls), is a two-arm form like Krsna's Body.
Srila Prabhupada - "The spirit soul's form is expressed as hands, legs, heads, everything, we cannot see these facts; therefore we foolishly believe the jiva-souls have no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
Srila Prabhupāda - "The individual spirit soul has eternal form but with our material eyes we foolishly believe it has no form." (Lecture BG, Ch 2 text 14, Mexico, Feb 14, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada – "Man is made after the shape of God, so God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, May 20, 1975)
Voluntary actions of choice are only possible if the individual jiva-souls have free will.
Without free will nothing voluntary could be achieced by the individual jiva-souls because free will means being able to make your own choices, which includes accepting or rejecting Krsna or Visnu.
Srila. Prabhupada - "In the spiritual world service there to Krsna is always voluntary. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything because it is voluntary." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4, Melb, May 20, 1975)
The original eternal individual form of the jiva-souls are NOT some impersonal formless spark in the Brahmajyoti or Brahman as the impersonalists and mayavadis believe, nor do the individual jiva-souls originate from the Body of Maha-Visnu.
Srila Prabhupada - "When fall down takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition." (Letter to, Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Srila Prabhupāda - "We are only a (dormant bodiless) spark (while fallen in the impersonal Brahmajyoti). But because we are spirit, we cannot remain in that fallen impersonal stage. The jiva-soul wants to enjoy, so for as long as one has forgotten (their spiritual bodily origin while outside of the spiritual atmosphere), one develops a body which is called matter."
Śyāmasundara dasa - "Does the individual jiva-soul develop a spiritual body?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "No, the soul is already a spiritual bodily form, an eternal spiritual identity already. But as we are presently developing different material bodies in the material world, but we can revive our spiritual body at anytime."
Revatīnandana dasa - "You very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the individual jiva-soul goes into the brahmajyoti and becomes dormant (inactive), they are considered still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen individual jiva-souls also? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and if I go to the brahmajyoti am I still fallen?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."
Revatīnandana dasa- "That means all jīva-souls there are also fallen souls."
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes." (Aug 17, 1971, London UK).^^.
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