When fall down from the spiritual world takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition which means the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka Vrindavana.
The individual jiva-souls can also fall further to the inactivity of the impersonal Brahman or impersonal Brahmajyoti (attempted spiritual suicide) after becoming fed up and frustrated with the material existence and the cycle of birth and death.
In this way the fallen eternal individual jiva-souls seek out a dormant state (inactive) in the impersonal Brahmajyoti, seen as attempted spiritual suicide, in an attempt to end the suffering of repeated birth and death and trying to enjoy the temporary decaying material creation they mistakenly believe is their home.
Also never did the jiva-souls originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or from tatastha-sakti.
The correct understanding of tatastha-sakti is it is already a fallen condition, so the eternal individual jiva-souls certainly never originated from an already fallen condition.
Srila Prabhupada - "So this material world is the taṭastha (conditioned temporary characteristics), and the spiritual world is the "permanent characteristics." So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (conditioned characteristics) and to enter the permanent characteristics. That is called spiritual elevation." (Lecture, CC Madhya-lila 20.354-358, New York City, Dec 28, 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "Because the individual jiva-soul is apt to fall down sometimes under the clutches of māyā, it is called taṭastha śakti." (Lecture BG, Ch 7 text 4-5 Bombay, March 30, 1971)
There is no such place as tatastha-sakti where the individual jiva-souls are supposedly generated or originate from because the jiva-souls have always existed and where never created as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter two explains.
The marginal plane (the category the eternal individual jiva-souls are described as) has no point of origin at all, the individual jiva-souls are beginningless and endless and were never created by Krsna.
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are known as tatastha-sakti and many other names according to the conditioned state they are in. In the material world or the impersonal brahmajyoti.
Each name describes the individual jiva-souls outside the spiritual world in their particular conditioned state they are in.
But not in Goloka-Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha planets the eternal jiva-souls are not in a conditioned state, they are there as their full potential in their natural spiritual eternal home. So, the conditioned state of tatastha-sakti is not known on the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Tatastha-sakti (referring to the conditional state of the marginal living entities (jiva-souls), is not a place, it describes the individual jiva-souls in their fallen conditioned state outside the spiritual world.
Some claim the individual jiva-souls are generated (originate) from tatastha-saki which is wrong because the individual jiva-souls are eternal and have no origin, meaning they were not generated from anywhere.
The category the individual jiva-souls are in is called the marginal plane or marginal living entities, an unlimited collective of eternal individual jiva-souls who are beginningless and endless.
Therefore, as said above, tatastha-sakti is a name describing an already fallen conditioned of the marginal living entity (individual jiva-souls)
The correct understanding is the eternal jiva-souls are Krsna's energy in a category known as the "marginal living entities," a collective of individual jiva-souls part and parcel of Krsna's marginal plane living entities (individual jiva-souls). Krsna and the individual jiva-souls are the same age, both were never created therefore both are eternal.
The individual jiva-souls are not generated from some place in the spiritual sky, such an idea is imagination because the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) never originated from anywhere, they have always existed, eternal without beginning or end as Bhagavad Gita As It Is teaches.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG, Ch 2 text 12)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20, 1983 edition)
In the material world nothing lasts forever, everything is in a constant state of flux (decomposition) except for the individ jiva-souls who are the spiritual passengers within the temporary material bodily vessels they possess (occupy).
As said above, tatastha-sakti is a word describing the already fallen conditioned state of the individual jiva-souls outside the spiritual world and the English word "generated" can be misleading because many translate it to means a beginning point or origin when in fact the individual jiva-souls have no origin.
In Srimad Bhagavatam the use of this word "generated" by Prabhupada means the individual jiva-souls are part and parcel of a category called the "marginal energy, plane or potency, who are a collective of unlimited individual jiva-souls who are eternal and were NEVER created or generated from any origin because there is No origin to all life, life has always existed.
Each individual jiva-soul has 78.125% of Krsna's qualities which means they have 50 of Krsna's 64 qualities.
The marginal energy is a collective of unlimited individual jiva-souls who are eternal, the jiva-souls are like the sun-rays that surround the Sun-disc (Krsna) that can never be separated.
There are different categories of living entities, the individual jiva-souls are one of those categories technically called the jiva-tattvas.
The other categories of living entities are Visnu-tattva, who are more direct expansions of Krsna and have 93.75% of Krsna's qualities which is having 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities.
And Siva-tattva (Lord Siva) is in a league of his own inbetween Visnu-tattva and jiva-tattva (jiva-souls) who has 85.938% of Krsna's qualities which means Siva has 55 of Krsna's 64 qualities.
Both Krsna and the jiva-souls are eternal and cannot exist separate each other, yet are paradoxically separated like the sun-rays and the Sun-disc however, Krsna is always in control, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes.
The marginal potency or individual jiva-souls originates from Goloka-Vrindavana and from there pervades the spiritual world, material world and the impersonal brahmajyoti with unlimited individual marginal living entities (jiva-souls).
The individual jiva-souls are always in the category of the marginal potency who can choose to exist in the spiritual world, the material creation or the impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Only the material energy is created and is also temporary and subject to decomposition, while the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are eternal spiritual beings and never created, nor did they originate or were generated from outside of Goloka-Vrindavana in the dormant (inactive) impersonal Brahmajyoti (the realm of spiritual suicide or death).
As said above, the word tatastha-sakti is a fallen condition the individual jiva-souls fall too outside of Goloka Vrindavana and the Vaikuntha planets (spiritual world)
The individual marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are Krsna's independent energy and can never be the energetic Krsna or any Visnu-tattva Forms.
All rebellious individual jiva-souls (less than 10%) enter the material creation after leaving a Vaikuntha planet or Goloka-Vrindavana, via the dreams of Maha-Visnu, and not from the impersonal Brahmajyoti or tatastha-sakti as explained above.
Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture BG, Aug 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)
Tatastha-sakti refers to those who are already fallen, conditioned in the material world and further fallen (conditioned) in the impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Tatastha-sakti does not describe those individual jiva-souls in their original "none-fallen" position on the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana.
Srila Prabhupada - "So this material world is the taṭastha (temporary conditioned characteristics), and the spiritual world is the permanent characteristics. So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics and to enter the permanent characteristics. That is called spiritual elevation." (Lecture CC, Madhya-lila 20.354-358, New York City, Dec 28, 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "Because the individual jiva-soul is apt to fall down sometimes under the clutches of māyā, it is called taṭastha-śakti. Just like in the seaside the shore, the beach, sometimes you see it is covered by water and sometimes it is land; similarly, when we are covered by māyā, that is our jīva-bhūta stage, and when there is no more covering, that is brahma-bhūta stage. When we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we are brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), and when we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we are materially conscious, that is māyā." (Lecture BG, Ch 7 text 4-5 Bombay, March 30, 1971)
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are not called tatastha-sakti on the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka Vrindavana because the word tatastha-sakti is a "conditioned" designation describing the jiva-souls outside of the spiritual world.
As said above, the word tatastha-sakti refers to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) only in their fallen conditioned state in both the material creation and when dormant in the impersonal inactive Brahmajyoti.
Revatīnandana dasa - "Srila Prabhupāda you very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and I go to the brahmajyoti I'm still fallen."
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."
Revatīnandana dasa - "That means all jīva-souls there in the impersonal Brahman (Brahmajyoti) are also fallen souls?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition (Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha). The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness.'' (Letter to Revatinandana, 13 June, 1971 London UK)
The jiva-soul's eternal home is Goloka-Vrindavana from where they originated from and have the same bodily features as Krsna-
sat,
cit,
ananda,
vigraha.
Which means-
Eternity,
Knowledge,
Bliss,
Form.
The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) is a two-armed bodily form like Krsna's Body.
Devotee – "Is the original body of the jiva-soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form, God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."
Hari-sauri dasa – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"
Srila Prabhupada – [describing material form first] "Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible, but you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."
Hari-sauri dasa - "Are the jiva-souls covered in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there position of service and bodily appearance is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna and become flower, voluntarily, and can change from flower to human body if one desires. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Happening record album, New York City, Dec 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down." (Lecture July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Srila Prabhupada - "The actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity (jiva-soul) is nitya-siddha (eternally liberated in the spiritual world). Because God is eternal, His part and parcels, the marginal living entities are also eternal. So nitya-siddha means eternally liberated in the spiritual world. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are different grades all described in "Nectar of Devotion." (CC lecture, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become nitya-siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha (eternally liberated)." (Lecture CC, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas (eternally conditioned) AGAIN nitya-siddha (eternally liberated), to bring them back to their original position. It is a difficult task.'' (CC, July 13, 1976 NYC)
Srila Prabhupada - "This material world is created by the dreaming of Mahā-Viṣṇu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation." (SB, Canto 4 Ch 29 text 83 Purport)
Srila Prabhupada further explains the jiva-souls NEVER originated from the impersonal Brahmajyoti-
Srila Prabhupada - "The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness (an already fallen condition)." (Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long as one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness, he does not fall down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness, immediately he falls down." (Letter to Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down to the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained "don’t fall down!"
Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving Krsna in the spiritual world."
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom, you have free will. It is your desire."
Devotee – "In the Srimad Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, then why are we here?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come, just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there, but he insists, "Oh, I must go. I must go. All right, you go at your risk and suffer. What can be done?" So because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence, your free will. If you persist that "I must go and enjoy independently," God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Acyutananda - ''So what made the jiva-soul take birth in the material world in first place?''
Srila Prabhupada - ''In the first place?''
Acyutananda - ''What is the first birth? What is the cause of the first birth."
Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes, that is stated in the Prema-vivarta:
krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare
"We are eternal servant of Krsna, as soon as we want to become master, that is the beginning of our first birth in the material world, we have got independence.
Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva bhutah,we are part and parcel of Krsna, so Krsna has got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we have got minute independence. Our business is to serve Krsna, but as soon as we give up this idea, we want to become master. That is the beginning of our material birth." (Lecture SB, Canto 5 Ch 5 text 2, Hyderabad, April 11, 1975)
Acyutananda – "In Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming to the spiritual world, you never again return to the material creation, so you can return to the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada – "If you like you can return that is voluntary because you have free will."
Guru-kripa – "How can one reject Krsna in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have your little independence it can be violated. God has full independence meaning Krsna can never fall down, but you have independence too (free will), proportionately, meaning you can fall down if you choose to return to the material world, that free will has to be accepted, we can misuse. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down, that is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes one thinks, "I can become the master." They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God, that is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible, but you are wrongly thinking you can."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna protect us from that desire?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He is protecting you. Krsna says, "You rascal, don’t desire an independent existence from Me, surrender unto Me, but you are rascal; you do not do this."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna save me from thinking like that?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, if you catch one girl or boy and demand, you love me, you love me, you love me, is it love? "You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Paramahamsa - "But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return to the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "There is return but that is voluntary, return is there if one chooses."
Paramahamsa - "If we want."
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."
Paramahamsa - "So we can come to the spiritual world and return to the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."
Paramahamsa - "Fall down?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, as soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice, yes, Krsna says, yes, you go and enjoy the material world, otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every margin living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that."
Paramahamsa - ''So because of our desire to enjoy separate from Krsna, we achieve a material body; and our desire to achieve Krsna brings us to our natural position."
Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes." (Morning Walk, May 13, 1973, LA)
We are responsible for our choices and actions. In the material world free will does not exist in over 8 million species of life (only sensual instincts exist). And in the 400 thousand human species, free will almost does not exist because one is binded by their own reactions to their pious and impious deeds (karma)
Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa, 25 July 1970)
Srila Prabhupada – Regarding your several questions, where are all the spirit souls coming from? These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There is no new soul, new and old are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how there can be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa, 9 July 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the jiva-soul's falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence." (Letter to Jagadisa, 27 Feb 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "The relationship with Krsna is never lost, it is simply forgotten by the influence of maya, so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new." (Letter to Jagadisa, 27 Feb 1970)
Returning to Godhead is not necessarily permanent because the individual jiva-souls always have their free will, that choice to stay or go is also the jiva-soul's choice therefore, it is not just a one-way decision that only Krsna makes. No, real loving exchanges can never exist without allowing free will in a two-way exchange.
Krsna does not run a dictatorial regime on the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana that would only make the jiva-soul's mindless non contributing puppets controlled by a puppet master (bogus God). The jiva-souls always have a choice to accept or reject Krsna and can leave the spiritual world at anytime.
Devotee – "In Srimad Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world, if Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here? Why doesn’t Krsna save us from coming to the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence (free-will). That is force, so Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. You love me, otherwise I shall kill you! That is not love; real love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C)
The individual jiva-souls in the spiritual world are forever expanding their contributions with voluntary offerings based on free will and loving reciprocal exchanges with Krsna, it is never a "one-sided" master/slave relationship with the Krsna (God)
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, You love me, otherwise I shall kill you! That is not love it is exploitation." (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Real love, bhakti or service to Krsna is always reciprocal, as said above, it is never a "one-sided" affair where surrender to Krsna takes away your ability to contribute in your own way by having independent choices of what to voluntary offer to Krsna in the spiritual world.
This is important to understand because each individual jiva-souls have their own independent identity, sense of self, unique personality, character separate from Krsna's Personality.
These are the unique qualities and make up of each individual marginal living entity (jiva-soul), making them the "person" they are eternally.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. "So God does not interfere with your independence." (Conversation Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we would miss use it?"
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Free will or freedom is something never acquired, nor ever given up or surrendered in the spiritual world as ignorant fools believe.
Free will is eternally part and parcel of the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) natural constitution and make-up and therefore always exists as part of their character without beginning or end in the spiritual planets.
However, free will in its full potential is only fully experienced in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavan (the spiritual worlds), which are the jiva-souls original perpetual home.
The eternal jiva-souls (marginal living entities) never emerged or originated from some nonsense dormant clear sheet of consciousness that some wrongly claim is always growing with new jiva-souls coming from the dormant Brahmajyoti, Brahman or tatasta-sakti as the impersonalist gurus, sannyasis and their followers foolishly believe.
There is no such place as tatastha-sakti where individual jiva-souls are literally generated or originate from, such teachings are nonsense and bogus as Chapter two of Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains, where it is clearly explained the the individual jiva-souls are beginningless and endless therefore NEVER created.
As said above, tatastha-sakti is a name describing "the fallen condition" of the jiva-souls. Tatastha-sakti is not the original beginning point of the jiva-souls because there is no beginning point. The individual jiva-souls have eternally been together, just like the Sun-disc and the sun-rays, can never be separated and always exist together.
Always remember, tatastha-sakti is a fallen conditioned state the jiva-souls fall too from the spiritual world. The marginal living entities or jiva-souls are known as tatastha-sakti only in their "conditioned fallen state" outside the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana.
The marginal potency or marginal living entities are like the sun-rays surrounding the Sun-disc, however, in the case of Krsna and the jiva-souls, both have always been, both have always existed eternally.
As explained above, tatastha-sakti is not a place, it is a name describing those fallen jiva-souls "conditioned" in the material creation, or "conditioned" in the dormant (inactive) impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Both conditions are already a fallen condition, so clearly the jiva-souls never originated from an already fallen position. This means the jiva-souls never originated from tatastha-sakti.
It is said by some that the jiva-souls come from the marginal plane but that simple means they are individual parts and parcels of Krsna's marginal energy who are everywhere in the Spiritual Sky.
The jiva-souls were never created by Krsna because the marginal living entity (jiva-souls) are part and parcel of Krsna's Body, and like Krsna, are eternal without beginning or end.
Only the material worlds are created and are temporary due to being in a constant state of decay.
The fact is, on the spiritual platform there is no creation of the individual jiva-souls, they were never created, they have always been.
Srila Prabhupāda - "The individual jiva-soul is part and parcel of God. As God is not created, He is creator, above creation, so the father creates a child; therefore father is above creation. So God is above creation. God created the cosmic manifestation (material world). Before creation of this cosmic world, God was there. Therefore He is not created; He is creator of all created things. And the jiva-soul, being part and parcel of God, he is also not created." (Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize, June 23, 1975 LA)
All jiva-souls coming to the material creation directly originate from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavan, their homes, where they are beginningless and endless like Krsna and Visnu as explained above.
The jiva-soul have no origin because they have always been however, their original home is Goloka-Vrindavana, and their original form is a two armed form like Krsna's as Prabhupada has explained above.
In the spiritual worlds there is no creation of any kind including the individual jiva-souls, they were never created, just like Krsna was never created.
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20, 1983 edition)
The individual jiva-souls are unique independent parts and parcel of Krsna just like the sunrays are part of the Sun-disc yet independent also. The jiva-souls are just as old as Krsna (beginningless) meaning they are without beginning or end.
Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The jiva-souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa, 25 April 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence." (Letter to Jagadisa, 27 Feb 1970)
Only the material worlds (matter or material energy) is created, not the spiritual worlds or living beings (anti-matter).
When Krsna wanted to experience a loving relationship He knew it could never exist with just one so He divided Himself into two, Srimati Radharani and Krsna, the Divine couple.
The marginal living entities (jīva-souls) are a part and parcel of Krsna and cannot be separated from the Supreme, yet are also simultaneously separated as independent living beings with their own sense of self, individuality, personality and free will, they are not Krsna but are fully dependent on Krsna.
Room Conversation May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio with His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada -
Pradyumna dasa - "Do the five dlirect rasas take place between jīva-souls also when they are..."
Srila Prabhupāda - "Everything for jīva-souls, all relationship. Kṛṣṇa is one, the Supreme, and all the jīva-souls are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly." (Room Conversation May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio)
Srila Prabhupada - "The individual jīva-soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called māyā, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God, there is no God." This is māyā. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment, and the māyā will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Then he comes to the direct relationship." (May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio)
It is important to understand that no jiva-souls originate from the impersonal Brahman or tatasta-sakti (both already fallen conditions)
The fact is all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) originate directly from their home Goloka-Vrindavana where they all have an eternal svarupa spiritual bodily form but can also voluntarily change to a bodily form of their choice, where the Lords pastimes are perpetually happening.
Srila Prabhupāda – "Unless there are "two-persons", where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
The choice to leave the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka Vrindavana is possible because Krsna allows a "two-way" relationship based on free will meant to enrich one's relationship with Krsna, this also means the jiva-souls can accept or reject Krsna if they choose, otherwise without free will, how could you claim you have a "two-way" relationship with Krsna?
Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will, unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."
Hayagriva dasa - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing is bad but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing, he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Discussion on Rene Descartes philosophy)
Syamasundara dasa - "Can we predict that returning back home, back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however, some do come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time and leave when ever you choose."
Syamasundara dasa - "So some come back to the material creation?"
Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."
Devotee - "Then the jiva-soul is so many times falling down, so will he eventually permanently come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence (free-will), therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence and fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? But naturally if one becomes free from the prison house, he should not return there again." (Discussion with Syamasundara on Henri Bergson philosophy)
For those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana once there, have not understood the above clear points explained by Srila Prabhupada.
In Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Krsna promises the jiva-souls they will never again fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana to the material creation, and yes, Krsna will always keeps His promise however, are the jiva-souls forced to accept that promise from Krsna which means they lose their free will on the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana and can never leave even if they choose to?
If Krsna forced His will on the individual jiva-souls then it means they have no free will and become mindless puppet s
Krsna's promise of never falling down to the material creation is from Krsna's side, but the fact is, the jiva-souls also have a choice to accept that promise from Krsna or reject it because of their free will?
There must always be a choice (free will) in the spiritual worlds otherwise there can be no question of loving voluntary exchanges that enrich and expand the relationship.
Fortunately over 90% of jiva-souls at one time choose to never fall down, only less than 10% choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana Prabhupada has explained.
However, that also can change over eternity, after all, the jiva-souls are beginningless and endless.
Ultimately each individual jiva-soul is a unique person with their own personality who can choose for themselves how to voluntarily serve Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, the best way they can, or ignore Him if they want.
As Prabhupada has explained, Krsna never forces the individual jiva-souls to surrender to Him, never forces them to love Him, that must be voluntary otherwise love can never genuinely exist unless there are voluntary reciprocal exchanges.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is not love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City City, Nov 23, 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - ''We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only with one, personally. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be two, there must be lover, there must be beloved in a two-way exchange otherwise how can there be love?" (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - ''Their (impersonalist) philosophy is oneness. So how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)
Impersonalism has many meanings, there are other impersonalist who believe surrendering to Krsna means giving up your free will and unique personality and becoming Krsna's mindless slave (yes man or women) like a puppet impersonally controlled by the strings of the puppeter.
The above impersonal version of Krsna consciousness must be rejected Prabhupada explains.
Srila Prabhupada – "In Bengali it is said, If you catch one girl or boy, you love me, you love me, you love me, is that love? You love me otherwise I will kill you!? Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver." (Washington DC July 1976)
As Prabhupada has explained, Krsna never forces the individual jiva-souls to surrender to Him, He never forces them to love Him, that must be voluntary otherwise love can never exist unless there is that endeavour to establish voluntary reciprocal exchanges.
Having free will or freedom is something never acquired, nor can ever be given up or surrendered in the spiritual world.
Free will is eternally part and parcel of the jiva-soul's natural constitution as a spiritual living entity and perpetually exists without beginning or end in the spiritual planets.
Therefore free will in its full potential is only fully experienced in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavan, which are the jiva-soul's original perpetual homes.
On the other hand, free will in the material creation is greatly restricted and only experienced minutely in the human species.
In all other species of life in the material creation, there is no free will or the ability to enquire about the purpose of existence, there is only the instincts of eating, sleeping, mating and defending.
So, the human form (material bodily vessel) the jiva-soul has occupied, is very important because it is the most advanced species that can assist the trapped jiva-soul to get out of the material creation.
Such a material bodily vessel is very, very rare among the 8 million 400 thousand species of life, there are only 400 thousand human species, making the human body the only way out of the material creation under the guidance of a spiritual teacher or master.
Krsna never forces the jiva-souls to surrender to Him or love Him, that they must choose for themselves, if He did use force, then that is not love, it is coerced surrender, exploitation and abuse.
There is always free will and the ability to always choose in both the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana which means one can choose accept or reject Krsna eternally.
Otherwise there is no meaning to free will nor can a two-way loving exchange exist.
A devotee once ask Srila Bhaktisiddhanta why was the jiva-souls granted free will when they could misuse it?
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta answered-
"You are fighting for freedom. Don’t you know the value of having free will? Devoid of freedom the jiva-soul is only matter. Real freedom or free will therefore offers the jiva-soul the alternative to do either right or wrong."
Gandhi then demanded-
"We want our freedom too."
The British authorities replied-
"You are not fit to have self-government or freedom. When you are fit, we shall give it to you."
Gandhi then demanded-
"We want the freedom to do right or wrong too."
So having one's freedom does not guarantee only acting in the right way; no, the choice must be there to also do wrong if on chooses.
Free will means always to be able to choose for yourself what is right or wrong for you, and not forced by others to do what they believe is right or wrong for you.
Therefore the possibility of also rejecting Krsna must always be there too in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana because that's what free will also means - to always have a choice.
So those who claim the jiva-soul never again falls down from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana are talking nonsense no matter who they are or claim to be.
However, it is a fact that over 90% of jiva-souls have never been to the material creation, which means they have never left Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
The individual jiva-souls always have free will in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana and choose for themselves what they want to do, most never leave Krsna but less than 10% do choose to leave the spiritual worlds.
Our first choice after rejecting Visnu on the Vaikuntha planets or Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavana, is to dominate and imitate Krsna, it is that choice, due to free will, that causes the jiva soul to enter the material temporary creation and try to dominate.
This choice of entering the material creation has nothing to do with the influence of Maya and the material energy.
This is because the material energy does not exist in the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana.
As a result of the rebellious jiva-soul's "choice" to reject Krsna, there relocation to the material creation begins to developed based on the desire to enjoy separately.
Srila Prabhupada has explained that the original home of the individual jiva-souls is always with Krsna in the spiritual world, engaged in a reciprocal relationship based on voluntary loving exchanges.
As explained above, Maya can never be blamed for the fall down of the individual jiva-souls from the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana to the material creation in any way.
As already exlained, Maya in her role as the personification of material energy, does NOT exist on the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka Vrindavana, therefore Maya can never tempt the jiva-souls to forget Krsna or Visnu in anyway.
Generally the only cause of fall down in most cases is the free will to make one's own choice to live separate from Krsna.
Another rare cause is offending great devotees like the gate keepers of Vaikuntha, Jai and Vijay did when they offended the four Kumaras by not letting them in to Vaikuntha (story in Srimad Bhagavatam)
The individual jiva-souls have free will eternally on the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana as part and parcel of their marginal constitutional make up as perpetual living entities.
Dr. John Mize – "Did all the jiva-souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any jiva-souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"
Srila Prabhupada – "No, there are… Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down."
Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%?"
Srila Prabhupada – Yes, or less than that. In the material, the whole material world all the living entities they are… Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down."
Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient."
Dr. John Mize – "Are more jiva-souls falling all the time?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence. Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing…" Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency."
Dr. John Mize – "The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka) is…?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes."
Dr. John Mize – "From where does that tendency come?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (BG lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)*=*
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