Even the leaves CAN fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.

Even the leaves CAN fall from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.

No past Acharays or great devotees would EVER maturely believe, when based on FULL knowledge -

"Once the jivatma is in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana the jiva soul will NEVER fall down to the material creation".

This promise above has been said in Shastra by Krishna and past Acharays but ONLY as a form of encouragement for neophytes to help them NOT fall down to the material world again.

Here is why it is NOT just up to Krishna -

Yes we all know in Sastra Krishna DOES promise one will NEVER fall from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana and he keeps His promise!

However, that promise is from Krishna's side, we must not forget the jivama must ALSO have THEIR choice too, and agree from their side also.

Ultimately in the end, it is the jiva's choice and NOT just Krishna's because he ONLY want servants who choose to serve Him.

Each individual jivatma (jiva tattva or soul) never looses their individuality of being a unique person made up by the following characteristics-

1 - "Personal abilities and talents" unique to each individual soul that gives one "a strong sense of self" that enables one to contribute independently "as a unique person" free from a nonsense "all one" mindless collective (impersonalism borge*) consciousness .

2 - Unique personal ability to express one's personality and character as a free thinker with the strong sense of "I am a complete individual independent person within  myself"

This IS the jiva tattva's full description and potential as an individual person who is simultaneously an eternal surrendered servant (by choice) of Lord Krishna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes being His parts and parcels.

3 - One's own special unique ability to like or dislike, or choose this side or that side (to be with Krishna or not be with Krishna) thus expressing oneself as an independent individual person.

Without this quality, loving exchanges of reciprocation  can never genuinely exist.

4 - The individual's right as a "person" to accept or reject, to provide ideas with personal imputs make us the unique individuals we all are, because we do not only accept love, but can each give so much love and service too in OUR unique personal wonderful way!

This is what "personalism" in the Spiritual World is all about while trying to please Krishna and His devotees with selfless service and unique personal expressions.

Each jiva has their own humble unique ability to make an offering of THEIR choice and THEIR standard, making the offering "personal and unique to each individual person".

There is no "collectivce consciousness of oneness" (where everyone thinks and does the same thing) in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.

In Vaikuntha the living entities have a similar looking spiritual body to Lord Vishnu but always remain a unique individual eternal personal servant of Lord Narayana.

Being an individual person is having a strong sense of self.

No past Acharays or great devotees would EVER say, in full knowledge, "the jiva in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana can NEVER fall down".

This is because all jiva souls are individual independent beings, therefore Krishna DOES NOT make that decision for them, even though He can if He wanted too because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes and can do what ever He wants.

Generally the jivatma will never fall from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana once there, however, the jiva has free will and the ability ro choose for themselves and if they want to go or stay, that choice is eternally theirs.

Such a decision must be with the jivas because Krishna gave them the independent ability to think for themselves.

So even with Krishna, the relationship is reciprocal and never forced, therefore the jiva can leave Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana anytime they desire.

We must understand the jiva does NOT enter some mindless smiling impersonal blissful collective by entering Vaikuntha.

Or become part of an "all one" sharing conscious group of "drones" who all think the same way as seen in their glazed impersonal eyes.

This impersonal version of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana I reject and is really worse than hell for a devotee of Krishna.

Loosing one's independent individuality and sense of self IS hell because one is no better than dead stone.

All individual jivas are NEVER forced to be Krishna's servant because the jivas also have a choice.

This also includes the "choice" to stay or leave Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana at anytime if the jiva chooses!

Krishna however, does promise one will NEVER fall from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana once there however, that promise is from Krishna's side and He keeps His promise!

But the jiva must ALSO agree on their side too because Love is reciprocal.

5 - Therefore, in simple language, those who claim one can NEVER fall down or leave Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, are NOT understanding it is only less than 10% who choose to fall down or leave Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana anyway.

6 - The fact is, 90% of jivas choose to NEVER leave Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.

But if one really thinks about even that comment, yes, it is a fact that the other 90% of jivas will never fall "as long as they continue desire to serve Krishna and NEVER forget Him"

Which means ALL 100% of jivas ALWAYS have the choice to stay in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana or leave and enter the material creation if they want "perpetually!"

Again this free will is nessessary if there is genuine reciprocal love between Krishna and the jiva.

Many inexperienced devotees feel insecure hearing this and that THEY are ultimately responsible.

They therefore find it easier to follow the Gaudiya Math teachings or some other Sanga that also teaches them that once they reach Goloka Vrindavana or Vaikuntha, then they will NEVER again fall down to the material world.

Believing in this so called surrender to Krishna, takes away the fear of failure and all responsibility from the jiva because they believe Krishna completely takes over the jiva's individuality and destiny with Krishna in complete control over the individual jiva's choices and service.

This is THEIR version of surrender, to speculate how Krishna's "will" flows through them getting the jiva to do everything He wants them to do in a oneway  relationship of so called surrender.

Their "so called surrender" believes Krishna completely takes over ALL responsibility of the jiva which is really obliterating one's individual unique personality and identity.

The fact is, this type of surrender where one renounces all responsibility for their identity, actions and personality in the name of "surrender prabhu" is actually impersonalism.

Real love is reciprocation, it is NEVER an impersonal one way street where surrender to Krishna takes away one's sense of self, individuality and RESPONSIBILITY.

"God helps those who helps themselves".

You always have a choice otherwise if Krishna does everything for you, how can there be genuine love?

The freedom to leave Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana MUST always be on the table (as a choice) because without it, there can NEVER be real love and service based on freewill.

Srila Prabhupada has said you can never force someone to love you, there must be LOVE based on reciprocation.

Srila Prabhupada - ”So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could become the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?

Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? ”So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington D.C.) End Quote.

BORG* (From Star Trek The Next Generation TV fame 1987) A race of beings acting as individuals but with no sense of independent self or individuality, who act as an "all one" collective (also called Mayavadi philosophy.)