Love between the devotee, Guru and Krishna is NEVER selfish, inconsiderate, forceful, threatening or impersonal, which means a one-way master/servant controlling relationship of just obeying.
This is because loving devotion between individuals is NEVER "one-way", love can only exist when there is two who have a reciprocal relationship of loving exchanges.
It is NEVER a demanding relationship of obedience where the devotee is told by a so called guru to just obey without personal input and intelligent inquiry.
This kind of "surrender" is impersonalism because the personality and character of the individual jiva soul's natural marginal attributes, are suppressed due to denying the jiva souls natural expression of freedom in the Spiritual World or Kingdom of God.
Free will ONLY fully exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana and is greatly restricted in the material creation to the point it does not exist in lower species of life and only expressed in a minor way in the human form of life.
Srila Prabhupāda - ''Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange. When these things are transacted, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things MUST be there''. (Evening Darsana, August 9, 1976, Tehran)
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Gurus and So called Spiritual leaders who preach that you do not even need to think this way for your self claiming they will do the thinking for you, are bogus dictatorial impersonalists and bullies.
Real love or service is ALWAYS based on a two-way street that includes individual contributions and personal inputs that can only be real and selfless when one can express their own independent individuality or free will.
Without free will and the ability to reciprocate, one is no better than dead stone that can never receive or give love.
Krishna ALWAYS serves His pure devotees far more than they can EVER serve Him!
The mundane cold loveless "slave/master" relationship of convenience between individuals NEVER exists in the REAL Goloka Vrindavana or Vaikuntha.
In the Spiritual world there is ALWAYS deep loving exchanges of emotions and reciprocation going on between Krishna and his dear friends, family members and inhabitants of Vrindavana, such reciprocation is the foundation of Spiritual life.
It is NEVER a one way street of just obey, obey obey and do what you are told, that will only deny one's individual input, contribution and unique abilities.
No two jiva-souls are the same in the Spiritual Sky, every jiva-soul is "unique" with their own personality, individuality and ''special'' relationship with Krishna.
How boring would Goloka-Vrindavan be if every soul in God's Kingdom cooked food preparation in exactly the same way being like a robot in an assembly line.
That version of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, or God's so called Kingdom, I reject because it is IMPERSONALISM!!
That "impersonal" version of "surrender", prominent in the 1970s with many nonsense religious cults and sangas, is just a "mindless" concocted "slave mentality" dangerous version of religion, where so called cult or religious and congregation members are encouraged to extinguish their individual identity, free will and sense of self in "the name of surrender" and "autocracy", and just do what they are told to do.
No, love between the devotee and Krishna or Guru is NEVER selfish, impersonal or just "one way" like that.
This kind of impersonalism DENIES loving reciprocation and individual contributions between Krishna and all his associates.
The fact is, this kind of impersonal mindless "surrender", that denies one's personal contributions and sense of individual self, does NOT exist in the Kingdom of God of Goloka-Vrindavan or the Vaikuntha planets.
On the spiritual level of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, one never denies, or attempts to extinguish their free will or individuality, thinking that is becoming selfless, or is the meaning of "surrender".
Being the unique person one eternally is, and having the free will that allows one to give the very best of their character in the service of the Lord, is what selflessness and surrender really means, and is the basis of who one really is as that independent person.
Having "free will" is the eternal constitutional make up of EVERY "marginal living entity", and is the standard for all jiva-souls to follow and understand.
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will!" (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
The jiva souls in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana therefore are forever expanding their sense of individuality with personal offerings based on selfless loving reciprocation with Krishna, it is NEVER a one sided relation with the Lord.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Real love or Bhakti is reciprocal, as said above, it is NEVER a one way street where surrender to Krishna takes away one's sense of self, individuality and personal contributions.
Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krishna give us free will if He knew we would miss use it in the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life". (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
This is important to understand because each individual jiva-soul has their own independent personality, sense of self and unique characteristics that THEY only individually have, that is part and parcel of each individual marginal living entities make up as the independent eternal "person" they are.
Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. "So God does not interfere with your little independence”. (Conversation in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples)
Devotee – "But In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?” Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?”
Srila Prabhupada - “That means YOU lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C)**
It is CLEARLY explained in the above post that free will ONLY refers to our original position in Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha. Please read carfully Prabhupada's quotes!!
ReplyDeleteAnd what many other sangas may say, claiming we only have free will when Guru give it to us, is silly ignorant nonsense and impersonalism.
This denial of individuality and free will is preached by other bogus sangas and their nonsense gurus who foolishly claim the jiva soul originates from the impersonal brahman, and some nonsense "clear sheet of consciousness!"
The fact is, the marginal living entity or jiva soul does NOT attain free will because the jiva already has free will as part of their eternal constitution as a marginal living entity.
Never was there a time in the Spiritual World did they not have free will. And free will in the material creation is explained above in post.
As Prabhupada explains, free will has ALWAYS existed in the Spiritual World otherwise how can there be genuine love?
Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krishna give us free will if He knew we would miss use it in the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life". (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Srila Prabhupada - "Krishna Consciousness Movement is for training men to be "independently thoughtful", there must be always "individual striving", not that one center shall dominate and distribute benefits to all others and they do nothing but beg from you and you provide.
ReplyDeleteNo", this centralisation control of all our Temples will spoil everything! Each temple MUST remain independent and self-sufficient".
Srila Prabhupada - "I have heard from you want to make big plan for centralization of management, I do NOT at all approve of such plan.
Do not centralize anything!
Each temple MUST remain independent and self-sufficient. That was my plan from the very beginning, why you are thinking otherwise?
Once before you wanted to do something centralizing with your GBC meeting, and if I did not interfere the whole thing would have been killed.
Do not think in this way of big corporation, big credits, centralization—these are all nonsense proposals.
The ONLY thing I wanted was that books printing and distribution should be centralized, thats all.
Otherwise, management, everything else, should be done locally by local men.
Accounts must be kept, things must be in order and lawfully done, but that should be each temple's concern, not yours.
Krishna Consciousness Movement is for training men to be "independently thoughtful" and competent in all types of departments of knowledge and action, not for making bureaucracy.
Once there is bureaucracy the whole thing will be spoiled.
There must be always "individual striving", work and responsibility, competitive spirit, not that one shall dominate and distribute benefits to the others and they do nothing but beg from you and you provide. No.
Never mind there may be botheration to register each centre, take tax certificate each, become separate corporations in each state.
That will train men how to do these things, and they shall develop reliability and responsibility, that is the point. (Letter to Karandhara -- Bombay 22 December, 1972)
Many aspiring devotees, religious leaders, seekers of REAL truth and modern day gurus have absolutely no idea what "free will" and "surrender" really means.
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
Sadly some foolishly believe to enter Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, one must extinguish their "free will" under the heading of ''surrender'' and allow Krishna to completely control your every actions and thoughts.
In other words, you become "little Krishna mindless drone imitators" running around Vrindavana who are always told what to do, when to do, and never allowed to think for yourself.
Such a hellish nightmare version of God's Kingdom is nonsense impersonalism because one is destroying their individual unique ''personality'' and independent sense of self by being that "mindless yes man or women drone".
In true Spiritual reality, the jiva soul is endowed with ''free will'' in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, where the jiva soul voluntarily contributes in a reciprocal relationship with Krishna as the PERSON they eternally are.
These impersonalist fools do not even care to stop this nonsense self denial and ''childish imitation'' of trying to be little Krishnas, instead of being the unique independent (yet dependent on Krishna) contributing servant they eternally are.
Real love is always a two-way street based on individual thoughtful loving exchanges and reciprocation. Being Krishna's mindless drone or slave in the name of being His servant is NOT the meaning of surrender or having loving selfless exchanges.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Real love or Bhakti is reciprocal, as said above, it is NEVER a one way street where surrender to Krishna takes away one's sense of self, individuality and personal contributions.
This is important to understand because each individual jiva-soul has their own independent personality, sense of self and unique personality and characteristics that THEY only have, that is part and parcel of each individual marginal living entities make up as the independent unique "person" they are eternally.