What is real freedom and where does it exist fully?
Bali Mardana - ''Srila Prabhupada, is an example of free will, is one can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away from Krishna? Is that an example of free will?''
Srila Prabhupāda - ''Yes, because if you choose to accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa''. (Morning Walk, January 22, 1974, Hawaii)
Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you go." Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is because you have free will''. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)
Devotee – "In Srimad Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?” Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?”
Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence, your free will. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C)
Free will is something never acquired, nor ever given up or surrendered in the Spiritual World because free will is eternally part and parcel of the jiva souls (marginal living entities) natural constitution.
Free will therefore ALWAYS exists without beginning or end but ONLY in the Spiritual Planets of Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
In other words, free will in its full potential of expression ONLY is fully active in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan, which is the jiva souls original perpetual home.
Only in the mundane decaying material creation is "free will" covered over, restricted and greatly suppressed by material nature (energy) and karmic reactions.
Losing one's free will (that is only covered over and never really lost) is ONLY suppressed and greatly restricted if the jiva soul foolishly chooses to enter the darkness of the material creation and be confined to temporary material bodily containers or vessels.
In this condition, the jiva soul's full Spiritual potential of being a free individual person in the Spiritual world selflessly serving Krishna, is mostly lost (forgotten) if they choose to enter the material creation.
All jiva souls ETERNALLY have "free will" as part of their perpetual constitutional make up, but can be forgotten (not ever lost) if they choose to enter the material creation of repeated birth and death.
Therefore in the material creation, the jiva souls original expression of freedom (free will) becomes covered over, suppressed and forgotten and must be AGAIN revived so the jiva soul is reinstated to their original spiritual position in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.
This revival is only possible by the process of Krishna Consciousness under the guidance of a bonafide Spiritual Master.
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life". (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
The jiva souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana are forever expanding their expression of individuality with personal unique offerings based on free will and selfless loving exchanges and reciprocation with Krishna, it is NEVER a one sided master/slave mindless none contributing relationship with God as Srila Prabhupada describes -
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Real love or Bhakti is reciprocal, as said above, it is NEVER a one way street where surrender to Krishna takes away one's sense of self, individuality and personal contributions.
This is important to understand because each individual jiva-soul has their own independent personality, sense of self and unique personality and character that THEY only have.
These attributes or qualities of "freedom" (Free will) mentioned above, are part and parcel of each individual marginal living entities the make them the independent (yet eternally dependent on Krishna) unique contributing "PERSON" they are eternally.
Love can only exist with Krishna if the jiva soul has the freedom to reject Krishna if they want as Prabhupada explains -
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
Srila Prabhupada - ”Even in the Vaikuntha you can desire not to serve Krishna if you want''.
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?
Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire like that. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?''
Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that'' (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. "So God does not interfere with your independence”. (Conversation Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is the choice to misuse your free will, then there is no question of free will or love".
Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will." (Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)
The following should be understood with proper spiritual maturity and not like some fool fundamentalist devotees, sannyasis and gurus over the internet who fanatically claim ''the jiva soul has no free will'' when in actual fact the jiva souls ALWAYS have free will!
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada is simply making the point that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the ultimate cause of ALL causes, that includes the free will the jiva souls ETERNALLY have.
Please read the following carefully.
Syamasundara dasa - ''Does the individual soul have a little independence to choose?
Srila Prabhupada - ''No (not without the sanction of Krsna, unless Krsna sanctions, we cannot do ANYTHING) Bhagavad-Gita states that when the individual soul wants to act, Krsna gives the orders. Man proposes, and God disposes.
Syamasundara dasa - ''So we have no free will?
Srila Prabhupada - ''Not without the sanction of Krsna. Without Him, we cannot do anything. Therefore He is the ultimate cause.
Syamasundara dasa - ''But I thought you have been saying that we have a little independence.
Srila Prabhupada - ''We have the independence in the sense that we may deny or affirm, but unless Krsna sanctions, we cannot do anything''. (Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy)
Srila Prabhupada is simply making the point that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the ultimate cause of ALL causes, that includes the free will the jiva souls ETERNALLY have.
And then concludes -
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life". (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)*
Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes, He allows the jiva souls to have their freedom so that they are able to choose for themselves, in cooperation with Krishna, how to love and serve Him.
ReplyDeleteIf Krishna never sanctioned the jiva's free will, then they would be no better than dead stone Prabhupada has explained.
If Krishna does not allow the jiva souls to have their free will, then the jiva souls can NEVER have a meaningful relationship of loving exchanges, personal contributions and reciprocation with Krishna as the individual "living person" they are eternally.
They would simply be no better than mindless programmed impersonal dead machines or drones.
The Spiritual Worlds, and "life itself", can NEVER exist unless the jiva souls are experiencing loving exchanges and reciprocation with Krishna, this can only happen when there is free will.**