Monday, December 21, 2020

For voluntary loving exchanges to expand, grow and flourish eternally in the spiritual world, the jiva-soul MUST have the unique personal ability of how to expression themselves so they can experience loving reciprocal exchanges in a two-sided affair.

Without the exchange of loving emotions and feelings between two in the spiritual world, genuine loving service to Krsna can NEVER exist.

"Love" is ALWAYS based on the respectful reciprocation between two, where no one dominates, bullies, uses or forces themselves on others. 

This is because REAL loving exchanges or service can ONLY exist when there are voluntary caring trade offs (exchanges) between two.

Such a "two-way," two-sided exchange based on reciprocation and voluntary offerings, is the foundation of a productive meaningful "personal" exchange with Krsna and Visnu.

Srila Prabhupada explains that the relationship between Krsna and the individual jiva-soul in Goloka-Vrindavan, and serving Narayana (Visnu) on the Vaikuntha planets, is NEVER a "one-way, one-sided impersonal loveless affair. 



HERE HERE HERE HERE HERE



If the relationship with Krsna was "one sided" and only Him doing all the thinking for you, then such a meaningless impersonal nonsense existence is denying the jiva souls in the Spiritual 

orlds from sharing their own personal voluntary contributions and individual choices that can only expand the loving relationship of exchanges with Krishna. 

For love to expand and grow eternally, there MUST be voluntarily loving exchanges between two, between Krsna and the individual jiva-soul.

Denying such "free will" and the ability to choose what the jiva soul can personally offer to Krishna, by forcing them to just obey and never to contribute their own unique personal abilities, or even question their existence, only condemns the jiva-soul's relationship with Krishna to a useless "one-side'' impersonal dicatorial affair, leaving the jiva soul no better than an emotionless lump of dead stone.

No, REAL love or service in the Spiritual World is ALWAYS based on the reciprocation between two because love can only exist when there is a caring respectful nurturing relationship between two.

Srila Prabhupāda – ''Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there". (August 9, 1976, Tehran)

Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force.” (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - “Unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)

Ultimately each individual soul is a unique person with their own sense of independent self who are able to choose for themselves how to voluntarily serve Krishna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, or even ignore Him if they choose to do so.

As Prabhupada explains, Krishna NEVER forces you to surrender to Him, never forces you to love Him, that must be voluntary otherwise love can never exist.

Srila Prabhupada – "Krishna NEVER forces you to love Him, that MUST be voluntary. (Melbourne June 25, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada – "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krishna does not want to become a lover like that." (July 8, 1976)

Krishna never interferes with the Free will of the jiva soul

Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you go." Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will''. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Devotee – "In Srimad Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?” Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?”

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence, your free will. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C)

"Free will" in its full potential ONLY fully exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan, the Spiritual Worlds, which ARE the jiva souls original perpetual home.

Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krishna give us free will if He knew we may miss use it?"

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life". (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

"Is this Radical personalism?"

Foolish religious fanatics who cannot understand that the nature of the jiva-soul IS an independent contributing "PERSON" who eternally has within their constitution, the individual right of self expression based on free will, sadly call these comments by Srila Prabhupada "Radical personalism"

Srila Prabhupada - ''Their (impersonalist) philosophy is oneness. So how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant..." (Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 2 Chapter 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974).

Becoming a disciple by surrendering to Krishna's pure devotee, does NOT mean one must extinguish their individuality, unique spiritual identity, personality and free will, and become Krishna's mindless drone and controlled pawn.

No, that is NOT surrendering to Krishna's pure devotee, it is actually embracing IMPERSONALISM!

Srila Prabhupada - "Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. Therefore love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, there MUST be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, so there must be lover, there must be beloved" (quote 1966 - 1974, Vaniquotes)

Srila Prabhupada - "We must understand that love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No, it is not good, that is NOT love, that is exploitation and forced obedience. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation" (quote 1966 - 1974, Vaniquotes)

The word "surrender" should be properly understood so that one's so called "surrender" and voluntary service is appreciated, reciprocated with and NOT demanding and impersonal.

Being an Impersonalist means-

1 - Attempting to extinguish your individuality, unique spiritual identity, personality and free will to just become Krishna's mindless drones and controlled pawns.

2 - Being bullied, patronized, talked down too and treated and used like a slave who is NEVER allowed to think for themselves, but rather instead should be nurtured, appreciated and encouraged to be a contributing independent living entity with the freedom of individual "self expression" when serving God.

3 - lnactively merge dormantly into His Brahman effulgence (Impersonal Brahmajyoti) attempting to extinguish one's individuality and unique personality.

In the Spiritual World with Krishna, "surrender" does NOT mean you give up you individuality, free will, sense of self or the independence that allows you to make your own personal contributions and offerings to Krishna unique to just you.

Goloka Vrindavana and Vaikuntha are very "personal" places based on loving voluntary exchanges eternally going on with Krishna and His servants and friends.

Therefore the jiva soul's relationship with Krishna is unique and very personal, each jiva soul has their own different personal exchanges with Krishna that no other jiva soul duplicates.

No two jiva souls are the same in Vaikuntha (in personality and character) or Goloka-Vrindavana.

Therefore REAL love, service and surrender can ONLY exist in TWO WAY voluntary exchanges, based on reciprocation and mutual respect, Krishna NEVER forces His will on anyone in the Spiritual World.

Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force.” (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)*^*












3 comments:

  1. There is so much more going on in Krishna's Abode with the jiva souls than just their free will.

    Ultimately Krishna arranges EVERYTHING way beyond the concept of free will and what our little independence can ever understand.

    Krishna’s plan for all things and living entities is inconceivable.

    Actually in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan Krishna will NEVER let anthing hurt the jiva soul.

    So now I understand why many great devotees say once one has entered Goloka Vrindavan or Vaikuntha, they never fall down.

    This is because Krishna will not allow anyone or anything, including our free will, to hurt us it seems but maybe not all the time.

    For example, if a jiva soul persists in demanding to be allowed to leave the spiritual world, then Krishna will not interfere

    At least this is the case it seems for over 90% of the inhabitants of Goloka Vrindavan and Vaikuntha, who NEVER fall down.

    But frankly I only know what Prabhupada has told us.

    Does Krishna fully protect the jiva soul from even choosing to fall down and leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavan?

    Wouldn't that be forcing the jiva souls to stay by not giving them a choice to make their own decision?

    So no Krishna maybe in rare cases interferes with His pure devotees free will.

    So my question is, if nothing can ever hurt the jiva souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan, including one's free will, then how do the jiva souls ever fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan?

    It seems they cannot ever fall down from there to many devotee scholars because Krishna is fully in control there even of their free will.

    So does that mean they lose their freedom by entering the Spiritual Worlds?

    Obviously these scholars, and even some great devotee's opinion on this subject do NOT seem right with their claim that those jiva souls in the Spiritual Planets can never fall down.

    Srila Prabhupada tells us Krishna NEVER in a forceful way makes the jiva souls stay in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, but rather encourages us in a loving nurturing protective way, to CHOOSE to stay, but CAN go also if we want.

    This is according to Prabhupada's comments in Vaniquotes, less than 10% of jiva souls in the Spiritual Planets DO use their free will and and choose to leave either Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana and enter the material creation.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Srila Prabhupada - ''Their (impersonalist) philosophy is oneness. So how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant..." (Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 2 Chapter 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974).

    Becoming a disciple by surrendering to Krishna's pure devotee, does NOT mean one must extinguish their individuality, unique spiritual identity, personality and free will, and become Krishna's mindless drone and controlled pawn.

    No, that is NOT surrendering to Krishna's pure devotee, it is actually embracing IMPERSONALISM!

    As Prabhupada - "Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. Therefore love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, there MUST be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, so there must be lover, there must be beloved.

    We must understand that love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No, it is not good, that is NOT love, that is exploitation and forced obedience. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation" (Srila Prabhupada quotes 1966 - 1974, Vaniquotes)

    ReplyDelete
  3. The word "surrender" should be properly understood so that one's so called "surrender" and voluntary service is appreciated, reciprocated with and NOT demanding and impersonal.

    Being an Impersonalist means-

    1 - Attempting to extinguish your individuality, unique spiritual identity, personality and free will to just become Krishna's mindless drones and controlled pawns.

    2 - Being bullied, patronized, talked down too and treated and used like a slave who is NEVER allowed to think for themselves, but rather instead should be nurtured, appreciated and encouraged to be a contributing independent living entity with the freedom of individual "self expression" when serving God.

    3 - lnactively merge dormantly into His Brahman effulgence (Impersonal Brahmajyoti) attempting to extinguish one's individuality and unique personality.

    In the Spiritual World with Krishna, "surrender" does NOT mean you give up you individuality, free will, sense of self or the independence that allows you to make your own personal contributions and offerings to Krishna unique to just you.

    Goloka Vrindavana and Vaikuntha are very "personal" places based on loving voluntary exchanges eternally going on with Krishna and His servants and friends.

    Therefore the jiva soul's relationship with Krishna is unique and very personal, each jiva soul has their own different personal exchanges with Krishna that no other jiva soul duplicates.

    No two jiva souls are the same in Vaikuntha (in personality and character) or Goloka-Vrindavana.

    Therefore REAL love, service and surrender can ONLY exist in TWO WAY voluntary exchanges, based on reciprocation and mutual respect, Krishna NEVER forces His will on anyone in the Spiritual World.

    ReplyDelete

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