Surrendering to Krsna and His pure devotee is NOT impersonal.
"Surrender" does NOT mean you become "mindless" by giving up your intelligence, free will, individuality and the awareness of being the independent unique contributing free thinking PERSON you REALLY are eternally.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City, Nov 23, 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed by only one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture SB, Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness but how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant..." (Lecture SB, Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Devotee – "When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that don’t fall down."
Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…"
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire."
Devotee – "In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father.
Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he insists, "Oh, I must go. I must go. All right, you go at your risk and suffer. What can be done?" So because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
The spiritual worlds of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana are NOT a dictatorial domineering impersonal places where everyone is forced to do what Krsna only wants, everyone voluntarily do what Krsna wants without any pressure from Krsna.
The Kingdom of God is NOT impersonal because there are ALWAYS loving exchanges going on, based on cooperation, reciprocation and personal contributions going on between Krsna and His devotees eternally.
Surrendering to Krsna and His pure devotee is NOT impersonal, surrender does NOT mean giving up your intelligence, free will, individuality and the awareness of being the independent unique contributing person you REALLY are eternally.
The impersonal dictatorial version of God's Kingdom is a fools paradise.
So, is there a place in the spiritual world from where the jiva-soul (marginal living entity) can never fall down from?
No, staying in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana is voluntary, it is not based on being in a place from where you can never fall down from.
It does not work that way because staying or going is based on free will which means it is "the jiva-souls choice’" to voluntary stay in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana and keeping their relationship with Krsna.
Love is a "two-way" street.
If Krsna forced you to love Him, then how can that force be genuine love?
Loving relationships can only work in a "two-way" exchange based on reciprocation and loving selfless service with two involved sharing loving interchanges.
In this way, the Kingdom of God is NEVER a domineering "one-way" dictatorship run by Krsna.
Krsna is not like that at all.
The fact is, such a "one-way" impersonal master/servant dictatorship is a cold loveless relationship of convenience that only destroy one's real freedom of expression (free will) and sense of individual self of having one's own unique personality that can choose how to serve Krsna in their own unique way, or even reject Krsna if one chooses.
Such freedom both ways MUST be there if love is to truly exist.
Remaining in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana eternally is based on the marginal living entities unique personality who can make their own choices based on their free will.
This means all jiva-souls can reject Krsna if they want. This also means being able to choose in Goloka Vrindavana or Vaikuntha how to voluntary offer and contribute the very best of their "unique" character.
Each individual jiva-soul has their own unique personal contributions they can choose to offer with love to the Lord while associating with Him as the perpetual individual eternal independent servant they are eternally.
No two jiva-souls are the same, each has their own unique individual personality and character when engaging in loving exchanges of service with Krsna.
Srila Prabhupāda - "Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange. Giving something, taking something, feeding something and to eat something, and speaking everything, no secrecy, and to know everything of the other person. When these things are transacted, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Evening Darsana, Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
The jiva-soul NEVER loses their free will (freedom), in Goloka Vrindavana and Vaikuntha which means their own individual ability of self expression, when choosing to offer their own personal contributions that are unique to each individual jiva-souls (jiva-tattva)
Each jiva-soul (marginal living entity) has this eternal marginal quality, which is part and parcel of there perpetual make up or constitution as being the marginal living entity or jiva-tattva-soul they are eternally.
In this way, each of the jiva-soul's have their own individual sense of self, character and personality separate from Krsna, and being a unique one of a kind in the Spiritual Sky different from all other jiva-souls.
Again it is important to understand this means that no two jiva-souls are the same.
This eternally existing spiritual social code, that includes free will and an independent personal sense of self, allows character and personality in each jiva-soul that exists eternally, without any beginning or ending point.
This quality of "free will" is part and parcel of every marginal living entities (jiva-souls) eternal constitution.
This allows the jiva-soul to personally always be aware that they are a unique individual independent PERSON while serving Krsna, being unique and different from all other living entities in the Spiritual Sky.
Free will means it is the jiva-soul's choice of how to they want surrender and serve Krsna also, or even NOT surrender to Krsna if they choose.
Although that is rare, the fact is more than 90% of jiva-souls NEVER choose to foolishly reject Krsna and fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana to the material creation.
Only less than 10% choose to reject Krsna and therefore enter the material creation Prabhupada tells us.
If the jiva-soul in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana reject Visnu or Krsna, then they obviously cannot stay there.
The only place available to them is the temporary material creation meant for those who CHOOSE to leave the spiritual worlds.
It is also their choice of what THEY want to offer and contribute to the Lord, which is the very best from their personal unique abilities and talents they voluntarily choose to selflessly offer to Krsna.
But also each jiva-soul knows it pleases Krsna the most by humbly and selflessly serving the servants of the servants of Krsna in Goloka-Vrindavan or Vaikuntha.
This "selflessness" of serving the servant of the servant of Krsna is the highest realization of love of God.
The fact that one does NOT fall from God's personal Kingdom, is the jiva-souls personal responsibility and choice, and NOT Gods (Krsna).
It is the jiva-souls choice, it is their free will that allows them to choose, and nobody else can interfere with that choice.
This is because Krsna NEVER forces us to love Him, there is ALWAYS choice.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, so God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently'', God says, “All right, you can go and enjoy." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada explains in "Nectar of Devotion", that just like the Sun-disc cannot be separated from the Sun-rays, similarly Krsna is meaningless without the association of His parts and parcels, His loving devotees.
Srila Prabhupada - "As the sun-disc and the sunshine cannot be separated, similarly Kṛṣṇa and His bodily rays, the brahmajyoti, cannot be separated." (Krsna Book, 89)
The relationship between Krsna and His jiva-tattva expansions (marginal living entities) is NEVER one-sided, never forced and never impersonal, it is ALWAYS a personal relationship of reciprocation, nurturing, voluntary service, in the mood of two way loving exchanges, ONLY then can there be REAL love in a relationship.
In this way Srila Prabhupada explained to us many years ago-
“If you love me, then I will love you”
Here he is giving us the example that there must always be loving cooperation, exchanges and reciprocation, responding with each other with selfless kindness.
In other words, love can NEVER exist with just one, there MUST always be loving exchanges and cooperation between TWO or more.
The fact is over 90% of all living entities (jiva-tattva souls or marginal living entities) choose to NEVER fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana, because that is their choice.
That expression of freedom or "free Will" in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana is always eternally part and parcel of the marginal living entities natural constitution and has always existed.
The jiva-soul or marginal living entity, has 78.125% of Krsna's quantities, which is having 50 of His 64 qualities. This means being a marginal living entity also means free will.
This puts marginal living entities in the realm of having their own "sense of independent self, identity, personality, individuality, unique character and the ability to choose for themselves. This means the jiva-souls have the freedom to agree or not agree with Krsna if they choose.
This quality of individuality and independence allows the jiva-soul the ability to choose Krsna or choose to be separate from Krsna and enter the material creation because of that choice to reject Krsna.
Remember, Maya and the material energy does NOT exist in Vaikuntha, so MAYA is unknown to the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
However, having "free will" and an independent personality gives the jiva-souls a unique sense of independent self. This allows the jiva-soul to express themselves in their own unique way and not be some mindless (non-thinking) drone controlled by Krsna.
These qualities are eternally the constitutional makeup of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
The jiva-souls are minor expansions of the Lord, yet exist with their OWN personality separate from Krsnas.
Unlike the direct Visnu-tattva and Visnu-"sakti"-tattva expansions, who all have 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities (93.75%) and who are in fact different personalities of the one Krsna, playing another role in His own pastimes.
If "free will" is taken away from the marginal living entities, then they lose the ability to give and accept love.
The jiva-soul becomes no better than dead stone Prabhupada has told us, or just a mindless non-thinking robot, slave or drone.
For love to truly exist, the jiva-souls MUST have their free will and independent rights too, as part and parcel of Krsna's over all manifesting of all things.
The marginal constitutional and make up, to choose how they want to serve Krsna with voluntary contributing service in a selflessness mood (the real meaning of surrender) in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana at all times.
And sadly the fact is, a small minority do choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan (less than 10% Prabhupada has explained), regardless of how some have interpreted past devotees and who claim no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana once there.
This is not true, the fact is the jiva-soul CAN leave the Spiritual World any time they want to.
To say those in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana will "never ever fall down IS true, but ONLY for those who CHOOSE NOT to fall down.
In other words a jiva-soul wants to leave they certainly can.
To make the blanket nonsense comment that "not even the leaves fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana" does not take into consideration the "free will" of the jiva-souls.
But they should remember what Prabhupada said, that over 90% of jiva-souls NEVER enter the material creation in a fallen condition.
However, to leave and end up in the material creation is ultimately the jiva-soul's individual right and choice, and the fact is, Krsna does not interfere with that, even though Krsna has promised there is no return to the material creation, the fact is there IS return if the jiva-soul wants to return as Prabhupada explains here-
Acyutananda – “But in the Bhagavad Gita, it says, “Once coming to the spiritual world, he never returns to the material world. He can return?"
Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he can return, that is voluntary."
Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God. God has got full independence, but you have got independence too, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
Returning home back to Godhead is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains as follows, that choice to stay or go is also the jiva souls choice too, it is not just a one way decision that Ksna makes, no, real loving exchanges can NEVER exist without free will.
For loving devotion to truly exist with the marginal living entity, the jiva-soul MUST have the right to choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at anytime if they want, therefore returning there is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada explains here.
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We CAN misuse that." (Conversation, Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
Syamasundara - "But can we predict returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however some do come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."
Syamasundara - "And some come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. Otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."
Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he CAN fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is NOT to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)
For those who believe no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana have NOT understood these clear points explained by Prabhupada.
Many also do not understand the variety of living entities in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, and that it is only a very small minority of jiva-souls, who are endowed with free will, who can choose to leave.
The majority do not even know the material creation exists not care.
The fact is, there are many different other inhabitants of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana too who are NOT jiva-soul (jiva-tattva) and never fall down by choice because they are more direct expansions of Krsna, such as the Visnu-tattva and Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas who are Krsna Himself just playing another role in His own pastimes.
Therefore, they NEVER fall down because they ARE Krsna and NOT jiva-soul.
Only the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) can fall down and not Visnu-tattvas and Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas.
HERE HERE HERE HERE
They are simultaneously His eternal associates and Krsna Himself experiencing Himself in unlimited different ways.
So for the Visnu-tattvas, and Visnu-sakti-tattvas, they choose just like Krsna does because they ARE Krsna just playing a different role in His pastimes.
Just like the Pancha-tattva where only one out the the five is jiva-tattva, all the rest are different direct expansions of Krsna's Personality.
And for over 90% of the jiva-tattva-souls, who ALWAYS have the ability to choose as an independent person, they also NEVER fall down or leave either because they NEVER "choose" to do so but can if they want too, that free will is ALWAYS there.
Devotee - “Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back”.
Srila Prabhupada - “No! There is possibility, but he does not come IF he is intelligent.
Just like putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you'reintelligent.
So those who are going back to Godhead, they must become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life.
So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, “Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man,” I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become." (Discussions with Syamasundara Dasa).
However, as said above, Prabhupada has explained there will ALWAYS be a very small minority of only the jiva-tattva souls, who have free will, fall down
Less than 10% (not the Visnu-sakti-tattva or Visnu-tattva "direct expansions"of Krsna) who CAN misuse their free will and "choose" to leave Krsna if they want.
"Free will" for the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) is eternal in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan, and without this freedom to be able to choose to either forget or remember Krsna, then the jiva-souls would have no individuality, no independent personality, and no ability to love.
The jiva-souls would simply be mindless ''yes men and woman'' like machine drones in a factory, or like a dead stone Prabhupada has tells us here.
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life". (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you can go." Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will''. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)
Srila Prabhupada - "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot fall down, that is not independence, that is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
In Bhagavad Gita As It Is Krsna promises the jiva-souls they will NEVER fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana to the material creation, and yes, Krsna will always keeps His promise!
However, Krsna's promise of NEVER falling down to the material creation once there, is from Krsna's point of view, so does the jiva soul also have to accept His promise as final?
In other words, does this mean the jiva-souls have no choice and can NEVER "choose" to leave Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana even if they want to leave?
Krsna's promise, confirmed in sastra that once reaching Vaikuntha the jiva-soul will never again fall down to the material World, is true for most souls, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM because some "choose" to reject Krsna's promise.
Those great souls who quote Krsna's promise from Bhagavad-Gita As It Is ARE right for the majority of jiva-souls, which is over 90% in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana who "choose" to NEVER fall down or leave Vaikuntha to enter the mundane material creation.
This is because the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) have free will.
This means they have independent thinking and have a choose to stay or leave Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
In other words, Krsna's promise is NOT binding or absolute law with the marginal living entities because the jiva-souls have the free will to make THEIR own choice.
Srila Prabhupada explains Krsna's promise and gives the proper explanation in full saying a small minority of jiva-souls do choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana and puts that figure at less than 10%.
So why do some souls fall down?
The only living entities who can fall down are the "marginal living entities" (jiva-souls) because being marginal MEANS free will.
To understand this one must realize that ultimately LOVE is not just a one way street or dictatorship, it is based on reciprocation and loving exhanges between two, not just one, meaning not some God doing all the thinking for you.
Therefore we must NOT forget the jiva-soul's right of self determination and self expression too, meaning the jiva-souls ALSO have THEIR contributions and can choose too expressed themselves from THEIR point of view rather than be dictated too by some God.
This is why love can never be experienced by just "one" because real love only works in an exchange of feelings between two.
In other words love is ALWAYS a two-way street.
Only impersonalists preach we are all one collective consciousness, and that "surrender" means giving up free will, individuality and that everyone should become a "little Krsna imitaters."
It is a fact Krsna can do anything He wants to do however, if Kṛṣṇa forced His will and complete dominance and control on the jiva-souls, then they would be no better than dead stone Prabhupada tells us.
Such "one-way" control by this kind of God will totally destroy the jiva-soul's independent ability to express themselves as individuals, denying them of their natural free will (freedom).
Therefore if Krsna DID force His will and FORCED the jiva-souls to love Him, then how can that be real genuine love as Prabhupada explains above.
By promising He will NEVER let the jiva-soul fall by forcing the jiva-soul to comply, can be seen as interfering with the free will and individuality of the jiva-soul.
This is because, they too are entitled to THEIR choice of serving or even not serving Krsna if they choose.
The fact is Krsna will NEVER make that decision for the jiva-soul, otherwise one's sense of free will is violated, and there can be no question of love if the jiva-soul has no right to choose for themselves.
Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we would miss use it?"
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
"Free will" or freedom is something never acquired, nor ever given up or surrendered in the Spiritual World as ignorant fools believe.
Free will is eternally part and parcel of the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) natural constitution and therefore ALWAYS exists without beginning or end in the Spiritual Planets.
However, free will in its full potential, is ONLY fully experienced in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavan, which is the jiva-souls original perpetual home.
Ultimately in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, it is also the jiva-souls choice of how to serve Krsna.
Surrendering to Krsna does not mean giving up your free will as previously explained.
This is because He ONLY wants loving servants who "choose" to be with Him through their own free will and personal offerings of service, to serve and love Him voluntarily and NEVER forced to serve Him by saying "once you are in Goloka Vrindavana, NEVER again will you leave or fall down".
No, that is NOT Krsns's complete call because it is NOT only His choice, a loving relationship can only exist when there are two consenting personalities, it is also the jiva-soul's choice to REMAIN there as servant of the servant as weĺl, or even leave if they want too.
The jiva-soul's independent nature actually allows them to make their own choices, including leaving the spiritual world if they choose.
The relationship between servant and Master is NEVER one-way, never impersonal, it is a perpetual relationship based on "reciprocation", based on loving exchanges between TWO.
The promise by Krsna that the jiva-soul will never again fall down into the material world, is from His point of view as explained above.
Ultimately it is NOT only Krsna's will and complete control, no, it is a joint decision between the jiva-souls and Krsna.
The spiritual worlds are NOT dictatorships where one is a yes man or women denying their personal contributions and offerings.
Sadly, many cannot understand these facts regardless of who they are who how great a soul they claim to be or others claim they are.
The fact is each jiva-soul is an independent unique individual who has free will with 78.125% of Krsns's qualities with their own personality, sense of self and unique identity separate from Krsna's Personality.
Devotee – "In Srimad Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?” Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C).
The jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana are forever expanding their expression of individuality with personal voluntary offerings based on free will and selfless loving reciprocation with Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Real love or Bhakti is reciprocal, as said above, it is NEVER a one way street where surrender to Krsna takes away one's sense of self, individuality and personal contributions.
This is important to understand because each individual jiva-soul has their own independent personality, sense of self and unique personality and characteristics that THEY only have, that is part and parcel of each individual marginal living entities make up as the independent unique "person" they are eternally.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. "So God does not interfere with your independence." (Conversation Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)
Krsna has many different energies. Jiva is one, Matter is one, the consorts of the Lord are one.
Srila Prabhupada - "Sakti or shakti means the "energy of Krsna."(SB, Canto 4 Ch 6 text 43, Purport)
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are sakti-tattva living entities. (sakti means the many energies of Krsna living and none-living) who are living parts and parcels of Krsna but also includes innate material "energy" or dead matter.
Srila Prabhupada - "Tattva is manifested in different ways:
1 - Viṣṇu-tattva,
2 - Viṣṇu-śakti-tattva,
3 - jīva-tattva, like that". (Lecture SB, Canto 6 Ch 2 text 7 - Vrndavana, Sep 10, 1975)
Krsna who is compared to the Sun-disc and His variety of living entities above are compared to the sun-rays, only Krsna's Visnu-tattva and Visnu-"sakti"-tattva living entities are direct expansions of Krsna that are almost equal to Krsna.
The Sun-disc and the sun-rays CANNOT exist separately from each other, similarly, those living entities in the marginal category (jiva-souls), even though they have their independence, cannot exist separately from Krsna.
The Sun-disc and the sun-rays CANNOT exist separately from each other, similarly the variety of the living entities (Krsna's parts and parcels) cannot exist separately from Krsna.
Each "jiva-soul" (marginal living entity) is a one of a kind independent individual with their own unique personality different from all other personalities, including Krsnas.
No two individual jiva-souls are the same, and no jiva-souls can EVER become God (Krsna or Visnu).
ESSAY 2.
Srila Prabhupada - "Tattva is manifested in different ways:
1 - Viṣṇu-tattva,
2 - Viṣṇu-śakti-tattva,
3 - jīva-tattva,
like that". (Lecture on SB, Canto 6.2.7 - Vrndavana, Sept 10, 1975)
Within Puranic literatures and general Vaiśnava philosophy tattva is often used to denote certain categories or types of being or energies such as-
Kṛṣṇa-tattva
The Supreme personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes. Meaning the causative factor of everything including other Tattvas.
Viśnu-tattva
Any incarnation or direct expansion of Śrī Kṛṣṇa.
Śakti-Tattva
The multifarious energies of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. It includes his internal potency, Yoga Maya and prakṛti (material energy)
Yogamaya
Yogamāyā means that which connects you. Yogamāyā, the original yogamāyā, is Kṛṣṇa's internal potency. That is Rādhārāṇī.
Jiva-tattva
The individual marginal living entities (jiva-souls).
Śiva-tattva
Śrī Śiva is not considered to be a jiva-tattva or Visnu-tattva.
Mahat-tattva
The total material energy (prakṛti)
Devotee - "In the material world, we are bound by māyā, mahā-māyā. In the spiritual world, is there another relationship of yogamāyā?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yogamāyā."
Devotee - "Could you explain a little bit about that?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yogamāyā means... Here, this is also Kṛṣṇa's exhibition of māyā, but it is temporary. In the another, spiritual world, that is also exhibition of Kṛṣṇa's māyā, but it is permanent. Here is a perverted reflection, we say. Just like shadow, shadow, the shadow of the tree in the water—everything is perverted, opposite. So that shadow is not the substance. The substance is there. On the bank of the river, that is really. Similarly the spiritual world is there also, everything is there. There are trees, there are fruits, there are flowers, there are men—everything is there, birds, beasts, everything. But they are all real.
Here, bahu-rūpa. Bahu-rūpa means, which it is not reality. That, this bahu-rūpa is also reflection, but it is not real. That is the difference. Ivābhāti, therefore it is called ivābhāti - It appears like that, actually it is not." (Lecture SB Canto 2 Ch 9 text 2 - Melb, Australia April 4, 1972)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa - "He wants to know how we may recognize yogamāyā, how we may know."
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yogamāyā? Yogamāyā means that which connects you. Yoga means connection. When you are being gradually advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the action of yogamāyā. And when you are gradually forgetting Kṛṣṇa, that is the action of mahāmāyā.
Māyā is acting upon you. The one is dragging you, and one is pushing you opposite way. Yogamāyā. So, just like the example, that you are always under the laws of government. You cannot deny. If you say, "I don't agree to abide by the laws of government," that is not possible.
But when you are a criminal, you are under the police laws, and when you are gentleman, you are under the civil laws. The laws are there. In any situation, you have to obey the laws of government. If you remain as a civilized citizen, then you are always protected by the civil law.
But as soon as you are against the state, the criminal law will act upon you. So the criminal activities of law is mahāmāyā, threefold miseries, always. Always putting in some sort of misery. And the civil department of Kṛṣṇa, ānandāmbudhi vardhanam. You simply go on increasing the, I mean to say, depth of the ocean of joy.
Ānandambudhi-vardhanam. That is the difference, yogamāyā and mahāmāyā. The original yogamāyā is Kṛṣṇa's internal potency. That is Rādhārāṇī." (Lecture - Seattle, Oct 18, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions: Your first question, "Are great sages put under yogamaya or maya? Also are all the eternally liberated souls under yogamaya?"
Yogamaya means the mercy of the Supreme Lord which connects a devotee in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. And mahamaya means the external potency of the Lord which puts a conditioned soul into illusion that he will be happy by material adjustment.
So great sages who are impersonalists are also under the spell of mahamaya, because a conditioned soul in the material world wants to improve his material position as exalted as possible, and the concept of becoming one with the Supreme Lord is the greatest illusion for them. Because it is a fact that nobody can be equal or greater than the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and as such, anyone desiring to become one with the Supreme means that he is still in the trap of maya. On the other hand, a humble devotee who may not be a great sage, but simply by his implicit acceptance of the Lotus Feet of the Lord as the goal of his life means that he is under the protection of yogamaya." (Letter to Aniruddha - Los Angeles 14 Nov, 1968)
Loving devotional service to Krsna is ALWAYS based on a "two-way" voluntary exchange of personal feelings, manifesting in loving acts of reciprocation between Krsna and His devotees, where His devotees voluntarily contribute their own unique expressions (offerings) of devotion to Him. This is the real meaning of surrendering to Krsna's will that NEVER denies the "free will" (freedom of individual expression) of each jiva-soul.
So there are different categories of sakti-tattva living entities. So yes, we are the jiva-tattva expansions known as the ''marginal living entities who are independent and have free will, while other living entities are more direct expansions of Krsna are called Visnu-tattva and Visnu-"sakti"-tattva expansions.
Then there is Siva-tattva who is neither a jiva-tattva soul, Visnu-tattva or Visnu-"sakti"-tattva.
Lord Siva is in a league of his own and has 55 of Krsna's 64 qualities which is 85.938% of Krsna's attributes.
The Visnu-"sakti"-tattva and Visnu-tattva expansions are Krsna playing another role in His own pastimes, whereas the jiva-tattvas are independent thinking living entities endowed with free will in the Spiritual Worlds who have their own personality, sense of self and unique individuality.
The majority of jiva-tattva souls are perpetually situated in either Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana and choose NEVER to fall to the material mundane temporary creation.
Where as the Visnu-sakti-tattva and Visnu-tattva Personalities are eternal inhabitants of Vrindavana who NEVER fall down, or choose to forget Krsna because they ARE Krsna playing a different role in His own eternal pastimes and affairs.
THEY are direct expansions of Krsna Himself and permanently part of His internal energies or potency that ARE all direct and full expansions of Krsna's varied Personalities.
For example, the Pancha-tattva are a combination of Visnu-sakti-tattva, Visnu-tattva, Siva-tattva and jiva-tattva Personalities with only one being jiva-tattva (Srivasa)
1 - Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself, The Supreme Person (Svayam Bhagavan).
2 - Nityananda is Krsna's first personal expansion with the combined power of Balarama
3 - Advaita Acharya is the combined power of Lord Visnu and Lord Siva (Harihara).
4 - Gadadhara Krsna's internal energy Srimati Radharani Herself who is none different from Krsna.
5 - Srivasa is Krsna's jiva-tattva pure devotee and symbolizes devotion.
Srila Prabhupada - "Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Śrī Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, and Śrīvās.
Śrīvās is jīva-soul (marginal living entity) The jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, viṣṇu-tattva, these are all tattvas. So Pañca-tattva. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is the supreme tattva, Kṛṣṇa.
Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. We are worshipping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa combined." (Lecture on CC Adi-lila 7.5, Mayapur, March 7, 1974)
The correct understanding is that ALL the different grades of Krsna’s living energies are under the broad category of Sakti-tattva that means "the energies of Krsna."
Sakti-tattva (energies of Krsna) includes ALL expansions of Krsna-
1 -Visnu-tattva,
2 -Visnu-sakti-tattva,
3 - Siva-tattva,
4 - Jiva-tattva (marginal living entities or jiva-souls endowed with free will).
Visnu-tattva (1) and Visnu-"sakti"-tattva (2) are direct expansions of Krsna who are Krsna Himself playing a different roles in His own pastimes, having 60 of Krsna's 64 attributes which is 93.75% of Krsna's qualities.
Where as Siva-tattva and jiva-tattva (jiva-soul) are NOT Krsna. Siva and the jiva-souls have their his own unique personality separate from Krsna's Personality as said above.
And each individual jiva-tattva soul ALWAYS have their own unique personality, character and independence that is separate from Krsna's Personality and Identity, but simultaneously dependant of Krsna's energies because Krsna is the cause of all causes.
Srila Prabhupada - "There are Viṣṇu-tattva, Jīva-tattva and Sakti-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva is the Supreme Absolute Truth, jīva-tattva is part and parcel, and Sakti-tattva is the energy of God." (Lecture SB, Canto 1.5.15, New Vrindaban, June 19, 1969)
All personalities or living entities are the sakti (energy) of Krsna.
The jiva-tattva (jiva-soul) expansions are also sakti-tattva but only have 50 of Krsna's 64 attributes which is 78.125% of Krsna's qualities.
The Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas and Visnu-tattvas are more DIRECT expansions of Krsna and have 93.75% of Krsna's qualities, which is 60 of Krsna's 64 attributes.
While the jiva-tattva souls (marginal living entities) are MINOR independent expansions of Krsna endowed with free will and have 78.125% of Krsna's qualities, which is having 50 of Krsna's 64 attributes.
Because of free will, the jiva-tattva souls have their own separate identity, individuality, personality, having their own way of expressing themselves with their own unique character separate from Krsna, yet always dependent on Krsna.
This means the jiva-souls do NOT share Krsna's personality like the Visnu-tattva and Visnu-sakti-tattva Forms do because the jiva-souls each have their own unique independent personality that allows them to express themselves in their own unique way.
Visnu-"sakti"-tattva expansions of Krsna are eternally engaged in their service to the Lord because such expansions have only the desire to please Krsna or Visnu, and can NEVER be covered by Maya BECAUSE they ARE Krsna playing a different role within His own pastimes.
Unlike the jiva-souls who have their free will with a separate identity, their own personality, and an independent sense of self.
Therefore obviously the Visnu-tattvas and Visnu-"sakti"-tattva's concept of free will and independence is only to please Krsna or Visnu BECAUSE they ARE direct expansions of Krsna.
As said above, Visnu-tattvas and Visnu-sakti-tattva ARE Krsna, just playing a different role in His own pastimes.
This is important to understand, and explains why Visnu-tattva and Visnu-sakti-tattvas living entities can NEVER fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan.
Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana are made up of many Visnu-sakti-tattvas and Visnu-tattvas servants too all playing different roles, such as gopis, gopas and many, many others there.
There are also unlimited jiva-tattvas playing many different roles in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrndavana as well, as servants and friend of the Krsna.
Some roles in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana are very difficult to know if the pastimes are played out by a Visnu-sakti-tattva, Visnu-tattva or Jiva-tattva entities.
Visnu-tattvas ARE Krsna's direct stand-out expansions such as Balarāma, Narayana, Visnu, Ramachandra, Narsinga deva etc, but there are other expansions too who maybe just simple cowherd boys (gopas) or gopis (women).
In Goloka Vrindavana, no one knows who is who except Krsna, who is jiva-tattva, who is Visnu-"sakti"-tattva or who is Visnu-tattva.
In fact the inhabitants in Vrindavana do not even know this little boy Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the cause of ALL causes, nor do they care.
As already explained, Visnu-sakti-tattva and Visnu-tattva expansions, can never fall down because they ARE Krsna playing another role and in His own pastimes, and may not even outwardly show they are Visnu-tattva or Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas in the play they are in.
This is very advanced knowledge and difficult to even begin to properly comprehend for most of us.
And yes, in some Visnu-tattva and Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas roles, the Lord outwardly seems to forget they are Krsna's expansion in that role or pastime they are in.
After all, Krsna can do ANYTHING He likes, He is not bound by even His own rules.
Krsna is the ORIGINAL Form of God from whom ALL His Visnu/Narayana and Visnu-tattva forms expand from, and that number is in the Trillions.
The only difference between Srimati Radharani and Krsna, and Lord Balarama and Krsna, is Lord Krsna IS the ORIGINAL Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, and has 4 MORE qualities or attributes than both Radharani (Visnu-sakti-tattva expansion) and Balarama (Visnu-tattva expansion), yet both ARE none different than Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes.
However, because they are not the original (first) form of God with the full 64 qualities, then not even Srimati Radharani, Krsna's eternal consort, or Balarama, Krsna's older brother are fully equal to Krsna.
Visnu-tattva and Visnu-sakti-tattvas also do not have those 64 unique qualities in full like Krsna does.
They have ONLY 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities, which is 93.75% of Krsna's 100% attributes but again, regardless of this, they ARE still none different from Krsna.
Let's make this easy to understand that Krsna is the original Lord of all -
Srila Prabhupada - "Tattva is manifested in different ways:
1 - Viṣṇu-tattva,
2 - Viṣṇu-śakti-tattva,
3 - jīva-tattva, like that". (Lecture on SB, Canto 6.2.7 - Vrndavana, Sept 10, 1975)
Lord Krsna has 64 qualities which is "exactly" 100% of those unique set qualities.
1 - Visnu-tattva has 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities (the full 100%) which is 93.75%
2 - Visnu-sakti-tattva also has 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities (the full 100%) which is 93.75%
3 - Siva-tattva has 54 of Krsna's 64 qualities which is 85.938% of Krsna's full qualities.
4 - Jiva-tattva souls have 50 of Krsna's 64 qualities which is 78.125% of Krsna’s full qualities.
Also the jiva-soul's 78.125% of Krsna's qualities can NEVER become Visnu-sakti-tattva or Visnu-tattvas 93.75% they have of Krsna's qualities
Or become Siva-tattva who has 85.938% of Krsna’s 64 qualities, which is 54 qualities of Krsna's 64 attributes.
And the jiva-tattva souls can never lose their separate individual unique personality, free will or independence that they have eternally (given by Krsna)
All living entities are "sakti-tattva" expansions of Krsna being all His energy.
This means they are simultaneously fully dependent on Krsna just like the sun-rays are fully dependent on the Sun-disc.
The sun-rays are expansions that emanate from the Sun-disc and depend on the Sun.
The Sun-disc has no meaning without the sun-rays, and the sun-rays have no meaning without the Sun-disc.
In other words, as explained in "Nectar of Devotion" the living entities mentioned above have no meaning without Krsna, and Krsna has no meaning without the living entities.
Being part and parcel of the Lord, as explained above, the marginal living entities (jiva-tattva souls) ALWAYS have "their own" independence, personality and sense of self separate from Krsna's Personality, making them an independent free thinking individual that expresses their own unique character serving Krsna in a "two-way" exchange of mutual respect.
Srila Prabhupada - "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa the maintainer of all and cause of all causes. We are "separate and none separate" from Krsna simultaneously. There are many tattvas, such as viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva and śakti-tattva, but above everything is the viṣṇu-tattva, which is all-pervading. This all-pervading feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is explained in Bhagavad-gītā (10.42), wherein the Lord says -
"But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."
Thus Kṛṣṇa says that the entire material world is maintained by His partial representation as Paramātmā. The Lord enters every universe as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu and then expands Himself as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu (Paramatma) to enter the hearts of all living entities and even enter the atoms.
Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Every universe is full of atoms, and the Lord is not only within the universe but also within the atoms. Thus within every atom the Supreme Lord exists in His Viṣṇu feature as Paramātmā, but all the viṣṇu-tattvas emanate from Kṛṣṇa.
As confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (10.2)-
aham ādir hi devānām -
Kṛṣṇa is the ādi, or beginning, of the devas of this material world—Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara. Therefore He is described here as bhagavate bṛhate." (SB, Canto 8 Ch 3 text 17)
The jiva-soul has 78.125% of Krsna's qualities and are called the ''marginal energy or marginal living entities''.
The jiva-tattva souls are different living entities than the more direct fuller expansions of the Lord that are the Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas and Visnu tattvas however, all can play the part of gopi and cowherd boy in Krsna lila.
Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana have so many expansions of Krsna that it is mind boggling.
As said above, the individual more independent jiva-souls can also play the role of a gopa (Cowherd boy) or gopi (Cowherd girl) just like a Visnu-sakti-tattva and Visnu-tattva direct expansions of Krsna do however, the jiva-souls can NEVER become Visnu-sakti-tattva or Visnu-tattva.
This is because the Visnu-sakti-tattva and Visnu-tattva ARE Krsna Himself who can expand as multiple personalities playing different roles in His own pastimes.
The jiva-souls ALWAYS have the ability to make their own choices of how to serve the Lord in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan as themselves (their spiritual identity svarupa) or not serve the Lord if they choose.
And can also play other roles including Brahma in the material creation too.
The marginal living entities (jiva-tattva souls) ALWAYS remain jiva-tattva with ONLY 78.125% of Krsna’s 100% qualities, and can NEVER become God, whom are Visnu-tattva or Visnu-sakti-tattva, or even Siva who is in a league of his own being neither Visnu-tattva or Jiva-tattva (jiva-soul).
The jiva-tattvas, unlike Visnu-sakti-tattva and Visnu-tattvas, can 'choose' to forget Krsna if they desire and therefore enter the material creation of Maha Visnu and foolishly think they are an independent god.
The Visnu-tattvas and Visnu-sakti-tattva ARE direct expansion of Krsna who only act out the will of Krsna because they ARE an expansion of Krsna's Identity.
Krsna actually plays out different roles, like Maha Visnu and Garbhodakashayi Visnu who create and manage the material creation on behalf of Krsna.
Our eternal constitution position and eternal spiritual body is in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana situated in the "eternal presence" of the Spiritual world.
We just have to wake up from this temporary material dream and return back home back to Godhead, our real home.
Just like Jaya and Vijaya's eternal position as gatekeepers of Vaikuntha is always there waiting for their return from falling down into the material creation.
Essay 1A.
In Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana there is no concept of past or future time because only the "eternal presence'' of Krsna exists there.
And there is the realizing that all jiva-souls are independent unique PERSONS serving Krsna eternally in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
This is how we know all the universe is not ''all-one" with an all pervading consciousness that plays out different roles while contained in different material bodily vessels or containers.
Although Krsna and His unlimited Visnu-tattva and Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas expansions ARE technically "all one, all Krsna", but God (Krsna) in different moods.
On the other hand, all the individual jiva-tattva souls are NOT all one, each have their own "unique" independence, personality, character and bodily form eternally that no other individual jiva-soul has.
Therefore, the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) never lose their independence sense of self of being an individual "PERSON"
Even a blade of grass, leaf, tree, clouds, rain drops, grains of sand and chair are Persons in Goloka.
EVERYTHING there in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana is alive!
Of course in the material world our individuality becomes greatly covered by many different species of material bodies but underneath it all within those 8 million 400 thousand material bodily vessels (species) is the jiva-tattva soul in each bodily vessel as an individual.
Only in the 400 thousand human species does a very small minute amount of free will exist, while in the other 8 million species there is no free will at all, only the instinct of eating, sleeping, mating and defending.
This is why no karma is created in the lower species of life, only in the human species is karma created.
Also no karma is created in both the heavenly and hellish planets, both places is where one experiences the result of the karma, good and bad, created while in the human form of life on this Earth planet (the Bhurloka Planetary System)
Therefore it is very important we understand we have a "sense of independence and individuality as jiva-tattva souls in our full potential in Goloka Vrindavana and Vaikuntha".
And this is what "marginal" means, that makes us the unique individual "persons" we eternally are.
To say you can never leave Goloka once there is true for most, but not all.
This is because of free will, we can ALWAYS choose to miss use our free will at anytime.
Without having that choice, Prabhupada has told us, we are no better than dead stone that is never able to give love or receive love.
And yes, many devotees have found this subject’s true meaning in Sastra very difficult to understand.
They get around this point they cannot understand by calling it inconceivable which is a cop-out rather than attempting to understand it, or believe others understand it like Prabhupada has understood and has clearly explained.
Like the fact that each jiva-soul is able to ALWAYS make their own "choices" and "decisions" in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Technically such freedom (free will) to choose allows the jiva-soul to increase their “unique” individual expression of love for Krsna.
Such freedom, free will and ability to choose is ALWAYS with the marginal living entity (jiva-soul) in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Therefore to take that free will and sense of individual self away from the marginal living entity in Goloka-Vrindavan and Vaikuntha, the jiva-tattva soul would also lose their individual ability to “give and accept love”.
This is because without "free will" we lose our sense of independence as a person who has a unique separate identity from all of other individual jiva-tattva souls, Visnu tattvas, and Krsna Himself.
It is a fact Krsna NEVER forces His will on the marginal living entities (jiva-souls)
These are very important points to understand.
The jiva-tattva souls are independent free thinking souls eternally in Goloka-Vrindavan and Vaikuntha, yet simultaneously part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krsna the cause of all causes meant to please the Lord as the unique “PERSONS ” they are eternally.
Therefore, no one can force the jiva-soul to stay in Vaikuntha, that choice MUST be eternally theirs (the jiva-soul) eternally.
Only Visnu-tattvas and Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas NEVER fall down from Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana because they ARE direct expansions of Krsna.
As already explained, they are playing unlimited different roles in Krsna's pastimes and have 93.75% of Krsna’s qualities, which is 60 of Krsna's 64 qualities, yet are full expansions of Krsna and none different from Him.
Visnu-"sakti"-tattvas are not just only Radharani but are also gopis, gopas, parents, etc and many, many other different direct personalities that are all Krsna playing another role in His pastimes.
Krsna’s brother Balarama is Visnu-tattva, Srimati Radharani is Visnu-sakti-tattva expansion of Krsna and many others are too, playing different parts in Krsna Lila (pastimes).
Just like in Lord Caitanya’s pastimes where many are Visnu-tattvas and Visnu-sakti-tattvas playing many of His devotees.
It is ONLY these residents of Vrindavana who NEVER fall down into forgetfulness while the jiva-soul residents can choose for themselves.
In Goloka Vrindavana all jiva-souls are eternally liberated until they choose not to be.
Only then is a jiva-soul called eternally conditioned.
All jiva souls where originally nitya siddha, it is only when they choose to give up serving Krsna do they then become nitya baddha.
There are NOT two different jiva-tattva souls, one (nitya baddha) existing in the material world and impersonal Brahmajyoti, and the other (nitya siddha) existing and serving eternally in Goloka-Vrindavan and Vaikuntha.
No, this idea is nonsense because ALL nitya-baddhas are originally nitya-siddha as Prabhupada has explained to us.
Srila Prabhupada - "Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) are nitya-siddha which means eternally liberated." (SB Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, Feb 18, 1977)
Srila Prabhupada - "The actual constitutional position of every living entity is nitya-siddha, because God is eternal and His part and parcels, the living entities, they are also eternal. So that is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha, sädhana-siddha, krpa-siddha-there are different grades. They are all described in The Nectar of Devotion. So one can become sadhana-siddha." (CC class, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can also become siddha. He can become AGAIN nitya-siddha. So, the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas AGAIN nitya-siddha, to bring them. It is a difficult task." (New York City lecture on CC, July 13, 1976)
And the fact is, more than 90% of jiva-tattva souls also “choose” to stay in Vaikuntha and NEVER fall down, which means entering the material creation seeking selfish desires.
To be in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana does NOT always guarantee the jiva-soul will stay there forever and never enter the material world again once returning there.
Although as already explained 90% never choose to forget Krsna because that is their desire and expression of free will, sadly some jiva-souls DO choose to leave or fall from Vaikuntha however, Prabhupada explains it is only a very small minority who foolishly make that choice, less than 10%.
Dr. John Mize – "Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"
Srila Prabhupada – "No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Let's clear one thing up, falling into the material world has absolutely nothing to do with maya or the material energy because maya does not and can not exist in Vaikuntha.
The jiva-souls do not even know Maya or the material energy exists, however, they do have "free will and the ability to choose" and are aware that this quality is “eternally” part and parcel of the jiva-tattva’s makeup and exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
We do not lose our independence and sense of individual identity once we enter Vaikuntha, we are eternally independent living entities even in Vaikuntha.
However, we always depend of Krsna in Vaikuntha, or His many Visnu-tattva expansions like Maha Visnu and Garbhodakashayi Visnu who provide all facilities in the material creation.
We can never be truly independent because everything, all that is, belongs to Krsna.
In other words we are always independent living entities but always depend on Krsna for our existence, just like the Sun-rays cannot exist without the Sun.
The fact is because we CAN "choose to be with Krsna or reject Him", then there can be increasing endeavors of loving exchange and reciprocation due to “choice”.
This is one of the reasons why the material universe was created - to give "reality" to that choice of rejecting and forgetting Krsna, just so the living entity can go to another place outside Vaikuntha and try to enjoy life without being Krsna conscious.
The marginal living entity or jiva-tattva souls MUST have that free will to choose to be with Krsna, or not be with Krsna, if they want, instead of just being in Vaikuntha without having no choice or free will at all as some believe.
Such mentality that denies "free will" is actually impersonalism.
The point made here is the position of the jiva-soul in Vaikuntha must be voluntary. Who you love and who you choose to serve MUST be voluntary.
Many cannot understand these facts about the importance of free will, individuality, identity and the sense of self worth of being a unique person who can give selfless ever increasing love or service in their own way to Krsna.
These qualities are based on the importance of the individual's ability to have "choices" within their experiences as a individual person.
Once again to be truly free there must be the choice of Vaikuntha or its so called opposite where Krsna can be forgotten, the "material creation"
Without the jiva-tattva souls being able to choose Krsna or not, there can NEVER be love, Prabhupada has said to force love is called rape.
Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could become the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking."
Vipina Purandara - "Why doesn’t Krsna protect us from that desire?
Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”
Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love?
So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening.
Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
By misusing one's free will causes the jiva-soul to live separately from Krsna by entering the material creation.
And this choice has nothing to do with maya or material energy as explained above.
As Prabhupada has explained, it is one's free will that allows the jiva-souls to reject Krsna.
This is because each jiva-soul is an independent individual persons, who can make their own choices, and includes rejecting Krsna if they want that instantly places them in the material creation.
After making that choice, the rebellious jiva-soul is given material bodies by Maha Visnu, both subtle and gross material vessels that covers the eternal anti-material spiritual bodily form.
In the material world the jiva-souls are confined to a gross material bodily vessel that is always in a state of decay and decline, and in need of constant maintenance.
Eventually the jiva-soul, trapped within a decaying material body, is forced to take another gross material body when their present one decomposes and wears out.
Everything in the material creation perishes due to decay caused by the temporary nature of the material creation.
Also once in the material creation, the jiva-soul is on their own path directed by their own pious and impious actions.
This is because they are responsible for their actions good and bad and are punishment or rewarded according.
Therefore karma begins as soon as the jiva-soul leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.
No jiva-souls originate from the dormant Brahmajyoti or Brahman effulgence, or the Body of Maha-Visnu because they ALL come (originate) from Vaikuntha as Prabhupada explains.
Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture BG, August 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)
Although many jiva-souls fall to impersonal Brahman or Brahmajyoti AFTER being in the material creation.
However, NEVER did the jiva-souls originate from that impersonal Brahmajyoti Prabhupada explains-
Srila Prabhupada - The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So, long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Hare Krsna "Happening record album, New York City, Dec 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Srila Prabhupada - "This material world is created by the dreaming of Mahā-Viṣṇu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the jiva-soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation." (SB, Canto 4.29.83 Purport)
A devotee once ask Srila Bhaktisiddhanta why was the jiva-soul granted free will when they could also misuse it?
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta answered -
"You are fighting for freedom. Don’t you know the value of having free will? Devoid of freedom the soul is only matter."
Furthermore freedom (free will) offers one the alternative to do either right or wrong Gandhi once told the British authorities.
"We want our freedom too."
The British authorities replied-
"You are not fit to have self-government or your freedom. When you are fit, we shall give it to you."
Gandhi replied,
“We want the freedom to do wrong too.”
So, freedom does not guarantee only acting in the right way; and that choice must be there to do wrong too.
Freedom means being able to choose "right or wrong".
The possibility of also rejecting Krsna must ALWAYS be there even in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana because of free will.
And this is always the case in the Spiritual Planets too.
Our first choice AFTER rejecting Krsna in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, is to dominate and imitate Krsna, therefore it is that choice that causes the jiva soul to enter the material world of domination.
And such choices have nothing to do with the influence of Maya or the material energy that does not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.
As a result of this "choice", everything else in the material creation has developed.
So Srila Prabhupada has explained that the "original position" of the jiva soul is with Krsna in a servitor relationship of voluntary loving exchanges.
As explained above, Maya can NEVER be blamed for the fall down of the jiva-soul from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana in any way because Maya, in her role as the personification of material energy, does NOT exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, nothing material can exist there.
But "free will" does eternally exist there and has ALWAYS existed in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana!
Therefore the jiva-souls are always responsible for their choices and actions in both the Spiritual Planets and the material creation.
Srila Prabhupada on the other hand chose to come to the material creation to serve Krsna's plan and attract the fallen jiva-souls back home back to Godhead.
Many other devotees also choose to come here to be in Krsna's pastimes as preachers or even play the role of a demon who fights Krsna.
There are three ways the jiva-souls can come here to the material creation.
1 - As a devotee who preaches God Consciousness.
2 - As a devotee who plays the part as a great demon like Jai and Vijayi the gatekeepers of Vaikuntha.
3 - And those who "choose" to just forget and give up Krsna's association and do their own thing in the material creation.
Also one can never have "material desires" in Vaikuntha because Maya does NOT exist there.
In the Spiritual Planets only being always aware of the eternal presence of Krsna exists there perpetually, and as soon as the jiva soul rejects that (because they always have a choice) they are immediately transferred to the material creation.
Maya cannot be blamed for tempting us and causing our fall down from Vaikuntha in any way because She, in her role as the personification of material energy, does NOT exist in Vaikuntha as explaineda above.
Nothing material (Maya) can exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.
However, free will, the independence of the jiva-soul, and their individuality and unique personality, does and always has existed in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
The jiva-souls therefore leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana because of free will that allows them to choose to either accept or reject Krsna.
As an individual ''person'' with independent thoughts and unique personality, the jiva-souls are ALWAYS able to make their own choices.
What does the majority of devotees think being a "PERSON" really means after you surrender to Krsna?
1 - Do they think it is becoming some "yes man or women" by extinguishing their free will and sense of independent self? Or does serving in Krsna's Kingdom means one becomes a mindless none thinking denier of the "individual self", including denying their unique qualities that makes them a contributing individual?
2 - Do they think surrender to Krsna means giving up their individuality?
Sadly, so many have no idea what real "personalism" or "surrender" really means.
The idea of "don't think, just do what your told" is an impersonal dictatorial nonsense saying
This is because it denies the jiva soul to explore their own individuality and use their own God given abilities and talents to contribute and offer something unique to their own personality and character, that no other jiva-soul has.
So no, "you" DO NOT give up your independence or individuality, including one's sense of self worth and self esteem, in order to be fully surrendered and "dependent" on Krsna.
This nonsense idea of giving your individuality and free will is the meaning of surrendering is impersonalism.
And those who foolishly pray to be just an atom in Krsna's lotus feet are also impersonalists because is attempting to extinguish their spiritual bodily svarupa identity be merging into Krsna.
To a Vaisnava this act of trying to cease all activity and become one with God is spiritual suicide.
In fact in Goloka Vrindavana your individual independence and dependence on Krsna go together side by side ETERNALLY increasing one's loving exchanges with Krsna.
And simultaneously at the same time, is always forever expanding in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
It takes spiritual intelligence to understand what real surrender is, and that includes understanding the jiva-souls are eternally an independent individual person with their own sense of "individual self" that is separate from all other individual jiva-souls and even Krsna.
Although Krsna always accompanies all jiva-tattva souls as a friend and witness to the jiva-souls individual choices and actions because the jiva-souls are eternally parts and parcels of the Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes.
The jiva-tattva is not part of an all one programmed none thinking impersonal collective within God's Kingdom, no, that is a description of what an impersonal hell is like.
Impersonalism also means believing that in Vaikuntha we must give up our free will, independence and individuality, and become part of an "all one collective consciousness" as part of our so called surrender.
Such an impersonal existence is to be devoid of individual thought that does not allow personal contributions that makes ''you'', who you really are, as a unique PERSON as Krsna's eternal servant who can contribute the best of ''their'' individual abilities.
On the other hand personalism means the individual jiva-soul must be able to grow and flourish as an independent living being giving their own personal contributions of devotional service to Krsna.
To deny the jiva-soul's individuality and having their own independent sense of identity is the hell to a "real" Krsna devotees.
Without free will we are no better than dead stone Prabhupada has taught us.
Many have an impersonalist idea about what Vaikuntha is like and do not even know it. Only when the living entity desires not to be with Krsna do they enter the material world and realize Maya's existences.
Paramahamsa - "But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return."
Srila Prabhupada - "There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is."
Paramahamsa - "If we want."
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes."
Paramahamsa - “So we can come to the spiritual world and return?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.
Paramahamsa - “Fall down?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go.” Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness. So, they want to enjoy this material world.
Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this."
Just like some of our students, Krsna conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped.
Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that.
Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare, nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare.
The police is there. Just like the police car was there. We have nothing to do with it. But if you do anything criminal, immediately you will be arrested, under police custody.
The maya may be there, but maya captures him who is not a devotee of Krsna. That’s all. Therefore, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, maya does not interfere anymore."
Paramahamsa - "So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these bodies; and our desire to achieve Krsna brings us to our natural position."
Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)
Therefore the jiva-souls are responsible for their choices and actions. And in the material creation, free will "almost" does not exist because one is binded by their own reactions to their pious and impious deeds (karma)
Essay 1B
Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls (jiva-souls) fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The jiva-souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)
Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your several questions: Where are the jiva-souls coming from that are taking microbe bodies? It is not a matter of any particular body. These jiva-souls and all jiva-souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. There are no NEW souls. New and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth, so how there can be new jiva-soul?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 7/9/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 02/27/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "The relationship with Krsna is never lost, it is simply forgotten by the influence of maya, so it maybe regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa 02/27/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "The answer to your question about the marginal energy is that the jiva-soul is always called marginal energy whether he is in the spiritual world or in the material world. There are instances where marginal energy jiva-souls have fallen from the spiritual world, just like Jaya and Vijaya. So, the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. And thus the individual jiva-soul is called as Krsna’s marginal energy." (Letter to Rayarama, Dec 2, 1968)
Srila Prabhupada - “Every living being has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally, That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi-perfection of one’s constitutional position. (Bhagavad-Gita as it is, Introduction.)
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body". (Germany, June 22, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada – “In the Padma Purana, wherein it is said that there are two kinds of spiritual entities; one is called the jiva-soul (jiva-tattva), and the other is called the Supreme Lord (Visnu-tattva)”. (87th Chapter of Krsna Book, Prayers by the Personified Vedas.)
Full conversation in the heading quotes reveals what Prabhupada means when he says less than 10% fall down Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
Dr. John Mize – “Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?
Srila Prabhupada – “No, there are… Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down”.
Dr. John Mize – “So we’re among the 10%.
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. Or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are… Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down”.
Dr. John Mize – “Does Krsna know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient”.
Dr. John Mize – “Are more souls falling all the time?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence… Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example:
Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal.
So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be.
Otherwise why they construct prison house also?
One may say, “Where is the criminal? You are constructing…” Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency”.
Dr. John Mize – “The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka) is…?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes”.
Dr. John Mize – “From where does that tendency come?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence.
If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force.
Therefore Krsna says,yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” (Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsna Loka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krsna he is liberated". (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going". (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)
Acyutananda - ''So what made the soul take birth in the first place?''
Srila Prabhupada - ''In the first place?''
Acyutananda - ''What is the first birth? What is the cause of the first birth''.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes. That is stated in the Prema-vivarta:
krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare
nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare
We are eternal servant of Krsna. As soon as we want to become master, that is the beginning of our first birth in the material world.
We have got independence. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva bhutah—we are part and parcel of Krsna—so Krsna has got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we have got minute independence.
Our business is to serve Krsna, but as soon as we give up this idea, we want to become master. That is the beginning of our material birth''. (Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.2--Hyderabad, April 11, 1975)
Acyutananda - ''But in the Bhagavad Gita, it says, "Once coming there, he never returns."
Srila Prabhupada - ''But if he likes, he can return''.
Acyutananda - ''He can return?''
Srila Prabhupada - ''That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown''. (Morning Walk--February 19, 1976, Mayapur)
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura - ''When the marginal living entity has contact with matter, the imprisoned jiva-soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha, material rasas (tastes and desires) are perverted reflections of the jiva-souls original spiritual rasas. (Prema-pradipa, p. 83)
Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada, why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we could fall down into the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life". (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Loving relationships and expressions of love are always a "two way street" based on reciprocation and loving exchanges, it is NEVER a slave domineering master relationship that only destroys one's free will and independence to express yourself as a unique individual.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation. (Lecture on Bhagavad Gita Chapter 9 text 2-5, New York, November 23, 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - ''We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only by one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love''. (Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1 Chapter 2 text 6, Delhi, November 12, 1973)
Love means two.
Srila Prabhupada - ''The impersonalist philosophy is oneness but how there can be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience? Love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He's so lover of you that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant..." (Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 2 Chapter 1 text 3 -- Paris, June 12, 1974)
The jiva-soul in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, NEVER lose their free will, which means their own individual ability of self expression when choosing to offer their own personal contributions that is unique to each of the individual jiva-souls.
Each jiva-soul in their full natural ''svarupa'' potential in the Spiritual Worlds of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, has this eternal marginal quality of free will, which is part and parcel of there perpetual constitutional makeup.
In this way, each of jiva-soul has their own individual sense of self, character, personality, likes and dislikes by being one of kind in the Spiritual Sky unlike any other jiva-soul.
No two jiva-souls are the same, each has their own unique individuality, personality and character.
This eternally existing makeup of each jiva-soul, is without any beginning or ending point, and is part and parcel of every marginal living entities (jiva-tattva souls).
This allows the jiva-soul to "personally" always be aware of their own individuality and independent nature of voluntary contributions while serving Krsna in THEIR very best way, that is different from all other living entities in the Spiritual Sky.`
This is a very important point to understand as we progress and mature in our Krsna Consciousness.
The relationship between Krsna and the jiva-tattva (soul) is NEVER one-sided, never forced, never impersonal, it is ALWAYS reciprocal, nurturing, personal and voluntary, in a mood of good exchanges and feelings, ONLY then can there be REAL love.
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.” (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
So the conclusion is Srimad Bhagavatam explains the fall down of the jiva-soul from Vaikuntha found in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 text 53 of Srimad Bhagavatam where the Supreme Lord is disguised as a brahmana;
''The brāhmaṇa continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world''.*+*.
Acyutananda – “In the Gita it says, “Once coming to the Spiritual World, he never returns". He can return?”
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada – “If he likes he can return”.
Guru-kripa – “How is it that one can become envious of Krishna?”
Srila Prabhupada – “You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God. God has got full independence, but you have got independence too, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted. We can misuse that. Krishna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”. (Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976)
Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krishna, we have a perfect relationship with Krishna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krishna?”
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.”
Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…”
Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire.
Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. You forced Krishna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk and suffer. What can be done? So because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy”. (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)
Even the jiva souls in Vaikuntha can reject Krishna and leave anytime they want Prabhupada tells us.
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down.” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Paramahamsa - “But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there is no return?
Srila Prabhupada - “There IS return, but that is voluntary, return is always there”.
Paramahamsa - “If we want”.
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.
Paramahamsa - “So we can come to the spiritual world and again return to the material World?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.
Paramahamsa - “Fall down?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go.” Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that." (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)
Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” (Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krishna Loka. When one forgets Krishna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krishna he is liberated". (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going". (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)
Acyutananda - ''So what made the soul take birth in the material creation in the first place?''
Srila Prabhupada - ''In the first place?''
Acyutananda - ''What is the first birth? What is the cause of the first birth''.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes. That is stated in the Prema-vivarta:
krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare
nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare
We are eternal servants of Krsna but as soon as we want to become master, that is the beginning of our first birth in the material world. We have got independence. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva bhutah—we are part and parcel of Krsna—so Krsna has got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we have got minute independence. Our business is to serve Krsna, but as soon as we give up this idea, we want to become master. That is the beginning of our material birth''. (Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.2--Hyderabad, April 11, 1975)
Acyutananda - ''But in the Gita it says, "Once coming there", he never returns to the material World."
Srila Prabhupada - ''But if he likes, he can return''.
Acyutananda - ''He can return?''
Srila Prabhupada - ''That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown''. (Morning Walk--February 19, 1976, Mayapur)*
Those bogus gurus, sannyasis and mundane scholars who claim the jiva souls are ''generated from a clear sheet of consciousness'' are preaching nonsense impersonalism.
ReplyDeleteTheir nonsense philosophy claims there was originally a time when the jiva soul did not exist as a conscious individual active living entity, but was originally generated from an impersonal concoction called Tatastha-sakti which is bogus!
Srila Prabhupada - "There is no “ NEW” soul. “New'’ and “old'’ are due to this material body. But the soul is NEVER born and NEVER dies, so if there is no birth how there can be new soul'' (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)
There is no such thing as new souls originating from Tatastha-sakti as Bhagavad Gita Chapter 2 Text 20 teaches-
''For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain''. (Bhagavad Gita Chapter 2 Text 20)
In other words, the jiva tattva has ALWAYS existed without beginning or end as individual jiva souls, so it is nonsense impersonalism to believe the jiva soul originates from Tatastha-sakti as fools preach.
And these same fools and their ignorant disciples cannot understand that some jiva soul CAN and do leave, not only Vaikuntha, but also Goloka Vrindavana if they choose to do so.
NOT because of Maya but because of free will.
Maya or material energy does not exist in the Spiritual Planets but free will ALWAYS exits there.
These fools and their gurus cannot understand this fact.
I had big arguments with those across the river in Mayapur in the 1970s and have avoided them all for nearly 50 years.
They do NOT understand the deep meaning of Sastra that Prabhupada personally taught us, as partly explained in the above main post.
In simple terms, they cannot get their head around the concept of "free will" that DOES allow the jiva soul to leave Vaikuntha at anytime as Prabhupada taught us.
It is foolish to sentimentally believe once the jiva soul is in Vaikuntha they can never leave.
Krishna NEVER interferes with the free will of the jiva souls.
In fact, we are all here because long, long ago we also chose to leave Vaikuntha to enter the material creation Prabhupada has explained.**.