Dr. John Mize – "Did all the jiva-souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once, or at different times, or are there any jiva-souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"
Srila Prabhupada – "No, there are majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down.
Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%."
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, whole material world, all the living entities they are like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world, only a few fall down."
Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a jiva-soul is going to be foolish and fall?”
Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient."
Dr. John Mize – "Are more jiva-souls falling all the time?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence. Everyone is not liking to misuse their independence. The same example:
Just like a government constructs a prison house because the government knows that some will be criminals. So their shelter must also be constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also?
One may say, "Where are the criminals? You are constructing” Government knows, there will be criminals. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency."
Dr. John Mize – "The origin of that tendency (to fall from Goloka or Vaikuntha) is?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes."
Dr. John Mize – "From where does that tendency come?"
Srila Prabhupada – “Tendency means independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” (Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)". (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many material creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)
Acyutananda - ''So what made the jiva-soul take birth in the first place in the material creation?"
Srila Prabhupada - ''In the first place?''
Acyutananda - ''What is the first birth? What is the cause of the first birth?"
Srila Prabhupada - ''Yes. That is stated in the Prema-vivarta:
krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare
We are eternal servants of Krsna. As soon as we want to become master, that is the beginning of our first birth in the material world. We have got that independence.
Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva bhutah, we are part and parcel of Krsna, so Krsna has got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we have got minute independence.
Our business is to serve Krsna, but as soon as we give up this idea, we want to become master. That is the beginning of our material birth." (Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.2--Hyderabad, April 11, 1975)
Acyutananda - ''But in the Bhagavad Gita, it says, "Once coming to the spiritual world, one never returns to the material creation."
Srila Prabhupada - ''But if he likes, he can return."
Acyutananda - ''He can return?''
Srila Prabhupada - ''That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown."(Morning Walk--February 19, 1976, Mayapur)
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura - ''When the marginal living entity has contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha, material rasas (tastes and desires) are perverted reflections of the soul's original spiritual rasas." (Prema-pradipa, p. 83)
Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we could fall down in the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Loving relationships and expressions of service are always a two-way street based on reciprocation and loving exchanges between two.
A loving relationship can never be a domineering one-sided relationship or dictatorship that will only destroy the free will to provide voluntary expressions and experience meaningful two-way exchanges. The independence to express one's self is unique to each individual jiva-soul.
In Bhagavad Gita Krsna makes the promise that once returning to Vaikuntha, the jiva-souls will never again fall down to the material creation however, the jiva-souls also have their choice too, and therefore can accept or reject Krsna's promise if they choose, otherwise there is no meaning to having free will Prabhupada has explained.
Although over 90% of jiva-souls do choose to not fall down, but can leave at anytime if they choose, otherwise there is no meaning to having free will.
This is why Srila Prabhupada explains above that less than 10% of jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana can choose to leave and enter the material creation.
Srila Prabhupada has made it clear that if we do not have free will in both Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana to leave at anytime we choose, then we are no better than dead lifeless stone.
In other words, there must also be the free will to reject Krsna too otherwise loving voluntary exchanges with Krsna can never exist.
Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."
Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."
Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is free will, he misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)
Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one-way only, that is not independence that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
In 1978 I met two gurus from another Vaisnavas group in India, but they could not understand the concept of free will being the cause of one's fall down to the material creation and not Maya or material energy.
The fact is, Maya or material energy simply does not exist in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana but free will with the individual jiva-souls always exists there.
The understanding from those other Vaisnava group was total nonsense, they seemed to believe that once the jiva-souls enter Vaikuntha, they no longer have free will because Krsna controls them completely.
In actual fact that idea is impersonalism and that is why Srila Prabhupada told us to avoid them all.^
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