No two jiva-souls are the same. The spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana are "personal" places made up of individual living entities serving Krsna, and not a "one" all-pervasive "impersonal" consciousness that are only individual persons when embodied, no, such nonsense impersonalism does not exist in the spiritual world.
Loving exchanges and free will are not possible on a a "one-way" street, there MUST be "two."
Without this basic rule of having loving exchanges in the spiritual planets, then there can NEVER be genuine love or service within one's relationship with Krsna.
Emotions expressed "one-way" without personal contributions that expands and enriches loving affection and sentiment, only experienced in a "two-way" exchange, is NOT love at all, it is selfishness and impersonalism.
The spiritual world's of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana are NOT a dictatorial "one-sided" impersonal directive, or a domineering demanding dictatorship that denies loving reciprocal relationships between two, which is a voluntary participation that includes personal contributions and self expression being always encouraged, instead of allowing a God to do all the thinking and decision making for you.
No, the spiritual planets are NOT a horrible impersonal emotionally dead place like that.
The fact is, in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana (the Kingdom of God) there are ALWAYS loving exchanges, voluntary cooperation and contributions going on that enrich, expand and ad mystery to one's unique relationship with Krsna.
In the spiritual world, personal unique contributions based on "free will," is the bases of life there.
There is always loving enriching contributing actions reciprocated with Krsna going on because without these attributes there can never be love.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that." (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
Therefore "loyalty" is ALWAYS a "two-way" street where the jiva-souls have their own unique individual personality separate from Krsna's Personality, who adds their own personal unique expressions into the relationship that expands and forever enhances and enriches one's friendship with Krsna.
Krsna will NEVER "force" us to do what we do not "choose" to do in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana because we are NOT Krsna's mindless "yes" men or women or slave.
Krsna does not control the surrender jiva-souls in every way like a puppet master controls his puppets with the movement of strings, denying self expression and individual contributions.
Srila Prabhupada - "Krsna does not want to become a lover by force, from the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
So, clearly surrendering to Krsna and His pure devotees is NOT impersonal, it does NOT mean giving up your intelligence, free will, individuality and the awareness of being an independent unique contributing person you are eternally.
The spiritual world's of the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka Vrindavana, are NOT an impersonal domineering mindless place for the individual jiva-souls in their relationship with Krsna or God.
No, the Kingdom of God is not like that in anyway, there is ALWAYS voluntary loving exchanges of feelings and emotions going on based on reciprocation between Krsna and His devotees.
Srila Prabhupada - “The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB, Canto 6.1.1-4 - Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you MUST have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
One's relationship with God (Krsna) in His Kingdom, is NEVER a "one-sided" master/slave mindless none contributing dictatorship as explained above, Prabhupada is telling us here.
The jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana are forever voluntarily expanding the expression of their individuality with an increasing variety of personal devotional offerings based on free will that make them the PERSONS they are eternally.
Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, personally. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture on SB, Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City, Nov 23, 1966)
Srila Prabhupāda – "Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
Srila Prabhupada - "Their impersonalist philosophy is oneness. So how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant..." (Lecture on SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)
Real love or Bhakti is reciprocal, it is NEVER a "one way street" where surrender to Krsna takes away one's sense of self, free will, individuality and one's personal contributions of voluntary offerings in Krsna's Abode.
Each individual jiva-soul has their own independent personality (yet simultaneously dependent on Krsna), separate from Krsna's Personality, which means having their own personality and sense of self, their own "unique identity" that they individually each have.
These attributes are part and parcel of each individual marginal living entity (jiva-soul) making each of them the unique "PERSON" they eternally are.
"Free will" in its full potential, is ONLY fully experienced in the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavan, which are the jiva-souls original perpetual home.
Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."
Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)
Bali Mardana - "An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that an example of free will?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa."(Morning Walk, Jan 22, 1974, Hawaii)
Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krsna protect me from thinking independently from Him?"
Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, "If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me. Is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Krsna does NOT want followers who deny others their right to choose for themselves on how they want to serve Krsna by offering their own unique personal contributions, or even rejecting Krsna if they choose as Prabhupada explains.
There is always a choice and that is why free will ALWAYS exists in God's Kingdom otherwise we are no better than dead emotionless stone.
The spiritual world's of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana are personal Kingdoms based on loving exchanges and cooperation between Krsna and His devotees, it is NEVER a "one way" demanding forceful relationship.
Ultimately we are all Krsna's servant and very dear friends however, that does not mean we have to give up our "free will" and "individuality" to be Krsna's friend and servant.
The conclusion is, free will MUST exist in Goloka-Vrindavana if voluntary unique self expression is to exist.
This individual quality is part and parcel of the constitutional make up of every marginal living entity (individual jiva-soul) otherwise how can there be unique voluntary contributing acts of genuine loving devotion and exchanges with Krsna?
In other words, Krsna ALWAYS allows "free will" because if He didn't, then loving exchanges and personal contributions can NEVER exist!
And that is what you call loveless impersonalism.
This is why the jiva-souls MUST have their free will if they are to experience voluntary loving exchanges and reciprocation with Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada has made it clear, it is only by Krsna’s sanction EVERYTHING is happening because Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of ALL causes.
However, for Him to experience genuine loving exchanges, Krsna must allow the jiva-souls to voluntary participate in a "two-way" loving relationship.
In other words, Krsna MUST allow free will.
So, Krsna must also give His approval for the jiva-souls to have their free will too.
The fact is, if Krsna denied the jiva-soul's their "free will" then we are no better than dead useless mindless stone Prabhupada clearly tells us.
Without free will, the jiva-souls can NEVER experience loving exchanges or emotions because ultimately love is a "two-way" exchange of personal feelings experienced when there are voluntary contributions between two, that can only happen if there is free will.
Both loving exchanges and free will are NEVER possible when there is just "one" there must be "two"
Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is "oneness," so how there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience that love means one? No. Love means two. There MUST be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He loves you so much that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant..." (Lecture on SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, personally. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture on SB, Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is NOT love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York City, Nov 23, 1966)
Srila Prabhupāda – "Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
Genuine love can NEVER be experienced in a dictatorial "one-sided" impersonal version of "surrender" in the name of Krsna.
To deny a jiva-soul's individual acts of self expression of personal offerings as an independent individual, and instead allow one's self to be always told what to do and think in the name of surrender, never encouraged to make one's own voluntary contributions, is NOT surrender at all!
The idea that "surrender" means forgetting or extinguishing your free will, which means being encouraged to voluntarily express yourself as a contributing individual, and instead allow Krsna to take complete control of all your thoughts and actions, is not only impersonalism, but also spiritual suicide!
Emotions expressed in a "one-way" mood without any exchange between "two," is NOT love at all, it is selfishness and dangerous impersonalism.
Therefore, without free will, without being allowed to contribute personal offerings and have independent choices, even though fully dependent on Krsna, the jiva-souls will NEVER experience wonderful loving exchanges, reciprocation and being able to offer their own personal unique gifts of individual contributions to Krsna.
As Prabhupada says, without "free will" we are no better than dead stone!
“Free will” or the ability to “choose” is eternally part and parcel of the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) natural constitution and ALWAYS exists without beginning or end in ALL the spiritual planets.
This is the real meaning of personalism.
As said above, free will in its full potential ONLY exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavan, which is the jiva-souls original perpetual home.
As Srila Prabhupada explains, the relationship between Krsna and the individual jiva-soul, is never a "one-way" domineering dictatorial relationship that denies personal contributions and choices.
No, love is ALWAYS based on the reciprocation between two because love can only exist when there are two as Prabhupada explains-
Srila Prabhupāda – ”Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada – "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
Ultimately each individual jiva-soul is a unique person who can choose for themselves to voluntarily serve Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes, or ignore Him if they choose.
Free will also must allow this too otherwise free will has no meaning.
As Prabhupada explains, Krsna never forces you to surrender to Him, never forces you to love Him, that MUST be voluntary.
Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna NEVER forces you to love Him, that MUST be voluntary. Love is reciprocal, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, at the point of a gun." (July 8, 1976)
Devotee – "In Srimad Bhagavatam, it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we here?” Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that?"
Srila Prabhupada - "That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy and demand, you love me, you love me, you love me, is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you! Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver, you love me, otherwise I shall kill you! That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C).
The jiva-souls in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana are forever expanding their expression of individuality with personal offerings based on free will and selfless loving reciprocation with Krsna, it is NEVER a one-sided master/slave relationship with God (Krsna)
Real love, bhakti or service is always reciprocal, as said above, and is NEVER a "one-way" dictatorial domination where "surrender" to Krsna takes away one's "free will," sense of a unique independent identity, individuality, a personality separate from Krsna's Personality, and the freedom to voluntarily offer personal contributions to Krsna.
This is important to understand because each individual jiva-soul has their own autonomous personality separate from Krsna's Personality, having their own sense of independent self, and their own unique characteristics THEY only have that no other jiva-soul also has.
Each jiva-soul is unique.
An independent individual with their own "one of a kind" personality.
As said above, all these qualities are part and parcel of each individual marginal living entities (jiva-souls) make up in the spiritual world as the "PERSONS" they are eternally.
Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. "So God does not interfere with your independence." (Conversation Melb, Australia June 25, 1974).
Having the attributes of being an eternal PERSON also includes having free will as part and parcel of the jiva-souls constitutional make up.
Krsna does not want to be surrounded by mindless drones who have no individual unique personality who can choose to expand, enrich and expand one's relationship with Krsna based on loving exchanges.
Some religious groups wrongly preach that you must give up (surrender) your "free will" to enter Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana.
These nonsense groups should know that you must always have free will so one can voluntary choose to participate in loving exchanges with Krsna.
Such a two-sided relationship is ONLY possible when the jiva-soul HAS their free will!
One must properly study Srila Prabhupada's Books and lectures to understand that surrender does NOT mean giving up your free will and letting Krsna control your every thought and actions.
In one class in one within one of these bogus religious, a so called sannyasi foolishly said-
"If you surrender to Krsna then you do not even need to think for yourself, Krsna will do all the thinking for you."
This nonsense talk of trying to extinguish one's unique personality and free will is impersonalism and spiritual suicide!
Many have foolishly believe that extinguishing your individuality and free will, is the real meaning of surrender.
They demand you must hand over and surrender your individuality, intelligence and free will, and let Krsna's will flow through you and control your every actions and thoughts, just like a puppet master controls a puppet."
Such nonsense preaching is Mayavadi impersonal.
"Real surrender" is using your free will to choose how to serve Krsna in one's own unique way, by forever voluntarily increasing your service atitude with a constant variety of personal contributions, and NOT give up one's ability to think for yourself as the bogus religionists above wrongly preach!
Such nonsense bogus impersonal surrender of attempting to give up (extinguish) your free will in the name of "surrender", is impersonalism that will only destroy who you really are as a unique individual PERSON, with the God given ability to contribute as a unique individual PERSON, and not as some mindless drone in a collective.
Love is NEVER a one-way street, there MUST be "free will" that makes the relationship a "two-way" exchange based on loving voluntary offerings.
This is what REAL personalism is.
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you MUST have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
We should ALWAYS remember the jiva-souls (marginal living entities) are personalist - and that means a PERSON who has a unique personality, who is naturally involved in a "two-way" loving exchange with Krsna and NEVER trapped in a one-way mindless dictatorship.
Therefore, being a PERSONALIST in the spiritual world means you MUST have your "free will" to voluntarily experience self expression, otherwise you are just a programmed "yes man or women" in a mindless collective who are never encouraged or nurtured to contribute as an independent individual.
The spiritual world is NOT an impersonal collective of jiva-souls who all think and act in the same way llike a mindless robot machines on a factorise assemble line that is always controlled, manipulated and programmed by the factory owner to only obey and only obey.
Srila Prabhupada - "In the spiritual world service here is always voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)
In the spiritual world the choice of the jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna is always voluntary, from a blade of grass to a tree, a cow or gopi or a 4 armed or two armed form on the Vaikuntha planets serving Narayana (Visnu) or in Goloka-Vrindavana with Krsna. ^**^×
Being an eternal PERSON means having free will, Krishna does not want to be surrounded by mindless drones who have no individual offerings to contribute by choice that expands the relationship of loving exchanges.
ReplyDeleteIf one sannyasi from the 1970s who wrongly preached you must give up (surrender) your free will to enter Vaikuntha was still alive today he would know that such voluntary loving exchanges is only possible when the jiva soul has free will.
Back in the late 60s, 70s and 80s many devotees never properly studied Prabhupada's Books and teachings, many believed, including some sannyāsis of those early pioneering years, surrender was giving up your free will. Most of them have gone today.
Many back then foolishly believed extinguishing your individuality and free will was the real meaning of surrender, demanding you "hand over your individuality and free will and let Krishna shine through you and control you like a puppet master controls a puppet"
Many of the early devotees were just hippies from the 60s who actually believed surrender means handing over your "free will" and let Krishna take over and work through you.
Real surrender is to use your free will to choose how to serve Krishna better and better, not give it up
Such nonsense bogus surrender of attempting to give up free will in the name of "surrender" is impersonalism, and destroys who you really are as a unique individual PERSON who can contribute as that person and not as some mindless devotee drone in a collective.
Love is NEVER a "one way street", you MUST have your free will too, to make it a "two way" exchange of voluntary exchanges.
Read the main article above clearly especially Prabhupada's quotes on free will.
Our Prabhupada clearly says without "free will" you are no better than DEAD stone, to give up free will is impersonalism.
To use your "free will" to think of ways to expand your loving exchanges with Krishna is personalism.
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you MUST have free will! But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life". (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Sadly in ISKCON today exists a very subtle expression of impersonalism, remember the jiva soul is a personalist - a PERSON and to be a personalist you MUST have "free will", otherwise you are just a mindless programmed drone in a collective like a robot machine in a factory."^^
All living entities are all Shakti-tattva (energies of Krishna) however, there are different categories.
ReplyDeleteAlthough basically there are only two types of living entities as Prabhupada explains.
Srila Prabhupada – “In the Padma Purana, wherein it is said that there are two kinds of spiritual entities; one is called the jiva (jiva-tattva), and the other is called the Supreme Lord (Vishnu-tattva)”. (87th Chapter of Krsna Book, Prayers by the Personified Vedas)
Radharani is in the category of Vishnu-tattva, she is no different than Krishna created for the purpose so Krishna can experience loving exchanges and emotions with a women.
In vaniquotes Radharani and the internal energy or potency is therefore called Sakti-Vishnu-tattva.
And when Krishna and Radharani combine in the one Body then that is Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Balarama is Krishna's first expansion and from Him everything else expands.
From this we understand that Krishna as His original form never leaves Vṛndāvana.
When Krishna comes to Earth to perform His pastimes, His original form never leaves Vṛndāvana.
This means all pastimes in the material creation are performed by Krishna’s Vishnu-tattva expansion playing that role of Krishna.
The original Krishna never kills demons only His Vishnu-tattva expansion in the material creation kills demons.
In the original Vrindavana in the Spiritual world there are no demons.
Demons ONLY exist in the material world's facsimile of Vrindavana.