Thursday, February 3, 2022

Krsna never interferes with the jiva-soul's free will, even if they choose to reject Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice, yes, "Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, you can go." Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will." (Morning Walk Cheviot Hills May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa Prabhu, 4/25/1970.)

Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from, these spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities." (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krsna he is liberated." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation. Krsna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krsna, so Krsna has given an opportunity, "All right. Imitate". So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like dream. Actually, we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krsna consciousness, we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the point of Krsna conscious. We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At any moment. This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen. So we have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated."(Bhagavatam lecture in Tokyo, April 20, 1972)

Srila Prabhupada - "Eternally conditioned means we do not know when we have been conditioned like this. It is not possible to trace out the history, many, many Brahma’s lives are happening, not only one." (Lecture in New York City, January 9, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada - "There is history, but that is not possible to trace out. Therefore, it is said anadi. Anadi means: adi means the creation. Creation before creation I contaminated this desire." (Bhagavatam lecture in Bombay, January 1, 1975) 

Srila Prabhupada - "It is impossible to trace out our history. Vaishnava poets say, therefore, anadi karma-phale, which means that these actions and reactions of one’s activity cannot be traced, for they may even continue from the last millennium of Brahma’s birth to the next millenium."(Bhagavatam lecture on verse 44 of Canto Three, Chapter thirty-one 1974).

Devotee - "In the spiritual sky, when the living entity is in his pure state of consciousness, does something act upon him to make him illusioned at that point, also?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. Just like Jaya-Vijaya. They committed offense", there is possibility even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world." (Bhagavad Gita lecture of July 4, 1974)

It is not Maya and her material energy causing the jiva-souls to leave or fall down from Vaikuntha because there is no material nature (Maya) in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana that forces the jiva-soul to leave Krsna, Maya's temptation and material energy do not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana however,  free will does exist there.

Srila Prabhupada - ''The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (The Hare Krsna Happening Record Album, New York City December 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down." (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada – ''Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa Prabhu, 4/25/1970.)

Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from, these spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities." (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsna Loka. When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krsna he is liberated." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Acyutananda - ''But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming ftom there, he never returns to the material creation."

Srila Prabhupada - ''But if he likes, he can return."

Acyutananda - ''He can return?''

Srila Prabhupada - ''That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown."(Morning Walk, February 19, 1976, Mayapur)

Revatīnandana - "Srila Prabhupāda you very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and I go to the brahmajyoti I'm still fallen."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes"

Revatīnandana - "That means all jīva-souls there are also fallen souls?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness.'' (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970 and London 1971)

As said above, the jiva-soul's relationship with Krsna is never a one-sided relationship, no, Krsna does not control the surrendered jiva-souls by force like a puppet master controls every movement of his puppets with the manipulations of strings, denying self expression, personal contributions and voluntary service.

Krsna controls His devotees with loving effection and reciprocal exchanges in a two-way exchange.

Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will if I can act only one-sided? That means I have no free will. Because we can act wrongly (sometimes), that means we have free will." (Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes).

The jiva-souls never lose their free will or ability to express themselves in their own unique way, they are also eternal as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains-

Bhagavad Gita - "For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 Text 20)

Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls. New and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?'' (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)

Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we could fall down in the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France).

Syamasundara - "Can we predict that returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however, some do come back?''

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right, whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson).***..








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