Srila Prabhupada - "This material world is the "taṭastha" conditioned characteristics, and the Spiritual worlds are the "personal" (Vaikuntha) characteristics." (New York City, Dec 28, 1966)
The marginal living entities or jiva-souls are not called tatastha-sakti in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana as Prabhupada explains above because the word is a "conditioned" designation.
The word tatastha-sakti refers to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in their fallen conditioned state in both the material creation and when dormant in the (impersonal) Brahmajyoti.
Revatīnandana - "Srila Prabhupāda you very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and I go to the brahmajyoti I'm still fallen."
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."
Revatīnandana - "That means all jīva-souls there in the impersonal Brahman (Brahmajyoti) are also fallen souls?"
Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition (Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha). The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness.'' (Letter to: Revatinandana, LA 13 June, 1970 and 1971 London)
The jiva-soul's original position in Goloka Vrindavana from where they originated from, have the same bodily features as Krsna-
sat,
cit,
ananda,
vigraha.
Which means-
Eternity,
Knowledge,
Bliss.
Form.
The jiva-souls ARE a perpetual bodily form like Krsna's two-arm bodily form.
The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities is a two arm form like Krsna's Body Prabhupada explains.
Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."
Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"
Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first] Yes, they are more covered, just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."
Hari-sauri - "Are they covered in the spiritual world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world, there that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna and become flower, voluntarily, and can change from flower to human body if one desires. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975)
As said above the word tatastha-sakti refers to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) in their fallen conditioned state in both the material creation, and when dormant in the impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman only.
It is foolish to believe the jiva-souls originate from tatastha-sakti (a conditioned fallen state) Srila Prabhupada explains.
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) sometimes fall down to the material creation from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana which are their original homes.
And then after being frustrated in a material body trapped in the cycle of birth and death in the material creation, they attempt to find escape by entering the impersonal (inactive or dormant) Brahmajyoti.
The fact is the jiva-souls do not originate from the Impersonal Brahman (Brahmajyoti), the Body of Maha-Visnu or tatastha-sakti (a conditioned designation) as some believe.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence (impersonal Brahmajyoti) are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness [Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana]." (Letter to Revatinandana, LA 13 June, 1970)
Tatastha-sakti is also an already fallen conditional state, as Prabhupada explains above, so there is no question of falling down from an already fallen state.
Fall down means from a none fallen condition and that none fallen original position of the jiva-souls is Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Those jiva-souls who have made the choice to enter the temporary decomposing material creation, can later enter, due to the frustration of material life, an inactive dormant state called the impersonal aspect of Brahman or impersonal Brahmajyoti.
As said above, the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are known in both the material creation and the impersonal Brahmajyoti as tatastha-sakti but not in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana from where they have originated from Prabhupada has explained above.
In other words, tatastha-sakti is the conditioned fallen designation of the marginal living entity that describes those jiva-souls who have entered the material creation and impersonal Brahmajyoti, but not those jiva-souls (marginal living entities) in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana.
This is important to try and understand as the marginal living entity (jiva-souls) has many different names describing their position and condition, and tatastha-sakti is one of those names describing the jiva-souls "conditioned state" after fall down.
The jiva-souls (marginal potency) were not created from a clear sheet of consciousness either as some wrongly claim because they have always existed everywhere (sarva-gatah means life is everywhere)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 Text 12 and text 20 confirms the jiva-souls were never created and have no origin from this imaginary "clear sheet of consciousness that is always growing and expanding with new jiva-souls" as some wrongly believe.
This is revealed in Bhagavad Gita As It Is "corrected 1983 edition" [NOT in the incorrect 1972 edition] Chapter 2 text 20 reveals-
"For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG Ch 2 text 20)
The jiva-souls may fall to an inactive or dormant state in the impersonal Brahmajyoti, but they certainly did not originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti, Brahman or tatastha-sakti.
Even entering the impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman is also only temporary relief for the jiva-souls who entered there to escape the suffering and pain of being embodied in the material world in the cycle of repeated birth and death.
In fact the fallen jiva-souls can stay in the impersonal Brahmajyoti for a very, very, very long time, so long that some foolishly believe it is where they have originated from after emerging from there.
Merged in the impersonal Brahmajyoti is also only temporary because the nature of the jiva-souls is to be active not inactive therefore, all jiva-souls eventually fall out of the impersonal Brahmajyoti.
It should be made clear the dormant inactive aspect of the Brahmajyoti is not the origin of the jiva-soul, it is actually the fallen state they fall too.
The individual jiva-souls do not originate (have a beginning) from anywhere because they have always existed as part and parcel of the marginal plane collective of Krsna's energies that are individual jiva-souls with 78.125% of Krsna's qualities (having 50 of Krsna's 64 attributes.
The jiva-souls are spread throughout the entire Spiritual Sky (material and spiritual worlds) as explained above.
The English word "generated" can be misleading if not properly understood in its right context because that word can mean a beginning point, or an origin.
However, the jiva-souls have no origin or beginning point, this is because they have always existed and were never created as Bhagavad Gita As It Is BG 2.20 explains-
From the correct Bhagavad Gita As It Is 1983 edition [NOT the incorrect 1972 edition] Ch 2 text 20 that reveals-
"For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG Ch 2 text 20)
The marginal living entities (jiva-souls), in their full potential, are a Spiritual bodily form (vigraha) and not an impersonal spark in Krsna's effulgence.
However, some time over eternity, due to choice (free will) some jiva-souls fell down from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana to the temporary material creation.
The now embodied jiva-souls in their material vessels, eventually over time, became frustrated with the constant cycle of repeated birth and death and decaying nature of the material creation.
Seeking freedom from that frustration in the temporary material creation, the fallen jīva-souls then attempt to find their liberation (freedom) from the continuous difficulty of material existence (the painful cycle of repeated birth and death) by attempting to end their existence.
They do this by endeavouring to extinguish their spiritual individuality and personality by appearing as a dormant none entity (inactive) bodiless individual unit or none conscious spark in the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.
This can also be an almost dead motionless existence in the material atom too as Prabhupada has explained.
To a devotee attempting to extinguish one's individuality by merging into the impersonal Brahmajyoti is Spiritual suicide.
However, entering the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, or in the atom as an inactive almost dead unit, is also temporary because the natural nature of the jiva-souls are to always be active.
Therefore, eventually the jiva-souls fall out of their impersonal prision and again take birth in the material creation, within the 8 million 400 thousand species of life to again experience the suffering of repeated birth and death.
Sadly for some who spent an enormous amount of time in the impersonal Brahmajyoti, when they eventually come out of that fallen condition, they foolishly believe the impersonal Brahmajyoti is their origin.
Srila Prabhupada - "So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha, conditioned characteristics and enter the permanent Personal characteristics (Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana). That is called spiritual elevation." (New York City, Dec 28, 1966)
Being a marginal means the jiva-souls have free will.
Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence therefore you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God you have got independence, proportionately, therefore if he likes he can return. That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We CAN misuse that." (Mayapur, Feb 19, 1976)
Having free will is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) that is always part and parcel within their eternal character and personality in the spiritual worlds.
This means the jiva-souls can even choose to leave the Vaikuntha Planets or Goloka-Vrindavana if they want, this is also what free will allows and if it didn't, then they have no free will.
This is why it is foolish that big, big sannyasis and gurus can claim that once entering the spiritual worlds, the jiva-souls can never fall down again.
No, they can fall down again and again if they choose to do so! But the majority choose
And such fall downs have nothing to do with Maya (material energy), it is simply free will.
The fact is Maya or material energy does not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.
The choice to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana is possible because Krsna allows love to be a two-way street, this means one can accept or reject Krsna if they choose to do so.
Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence, that is force." (LA, June 23, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."
Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."
Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Talk with Rene Descartes)
Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice, Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, yes, you can go Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will." (Morning Walk Cheviot Hills May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)
Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)
Srila Prabhupada - "So to go to Krsna means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body." (Germany, June 22, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago. Anadi karama-phale. Anadi means before the creation. The real desire is how to go to home, back to Godhead." (Lecture on BG, London, Aug 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "We may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment, so even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that, "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down." (Lecture in Honolulu, July 4, 1974)
Syamasundara - "But can we predict returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however some do come back?''
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."
Syamasundara - "And some come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. All right. Whatever you like."
Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he CAN fall down. That's why when a man is rel,eased from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Talk with Syamasundara and Henri Bergson)
Even though Krsna has promised there is no return to the material creation once returning to the spiritual worlds.
The fact is there is return if the jiva-souls want to return as Prabhupada explains here-
Acyutananda – "In Bhagavad Gita As It Is Krsna says, once coming to the spiritual world, the jiva-souls never returns to the material worlds, so He can return?"
Srila Prabhupada – "If he likes he can return."
Guru-kripa – "How is it that one can become envious of Krsna?"
Srila Prabhupada – "You have got little independence, you can violate. Because you are part and parcel of God. God has got full independence, but you have got independence too, proportionately, because you are part and parcel, so if he likes, he can return. That independence has to be accepted. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha haïä bhoga väïchä kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown." (Mayapur Feb 19, 1976)
Devotee - "Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back."
Srila Prabhupada - "No! There is possibility, but he does not come IF he is intelligent. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it in again. So those who are going back to Godhead, they must become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead?" (Talk with Syamasundara Dasa).
Srila Prabhupada - "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot fall down, that is not independence, that is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (LA, June 23, 1975)
Therefore returning back home back to Godhead is not necessarily permanent Prabhupada has explained above, that choice to stay with Krsna or go, is also the jiva-soul's choice too.
Therefore it is not just a one-way decision that Krsna only makes, no, real loving exchanges can never exist in a one-sided affair because there is always free will
Krsna does not control the surrendered jiva-souls by force like a puppet master controls every movement of his puppets with the manipulations of strings.
Similarly Krsna does not forcibly control the jiva-souls by denying their free will, their natural constitutional right of self expression, voluntary individual contributions and having their own unique personality separate from Krsna's Personality.
Srila Prabhupada - "Krsna does not want to become a lover by force, from the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?" (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Srila Prabhupada - ''We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed by only one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (SB Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "Love means two, there must be two, the lover and the belove." (Lecture on BG Ch 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)
Srila Prabhupāda – ''Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)
In Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana personal voluntary expressions of loving exchanges are always encouraged by Krsna in His relationship with the jiva-souls. This adds flavour, variety and mystery to their association with the Lord.
This means the Kingdom of God (Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha) are not a "one-sided" dominating impersonal domain devoid of free will or voluntary service.
Denying free will does not allow or encourage voluntary personal contributions (offerings) expressed in a two-way exchange, that can only expand, enrich and flavour one's eternal relationship with Krsna (God).
Loving service to Krsna and exchanges with Him cannot exist if there is only a one-sided affiliate of total supremacy or preeminence.
The fact is genuine loving relations and service are based on free will which includes loving exhanges between two, and is never a one-sided dominating affair!
Free will means the jiva-souls are marginal and that all decision making is a two-sided affair, that allows the jiva-souls to choose for themselves, even if it means rejecting Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)
Having free will always allows the jiva-souls to voluntarily choose their own unique contributions that they want to selflessly offer to Krsna in loving service.
This is the real meaning of surrender.
Without free will, loving voluntary exchanges with Krsna are not possible.
Loving relationships can only work in a two-way exchange based on reciprocation and loving selfless service with two sharing loving exchanges.
In this way, the Kingdom of God is never a domineering one-sided dictatorship run by a forceful so called God.
No, Krsna is not like that at all.
The fact is, such a one-way impersonal master/servant dictatorship is actually a loveless relationship that only destroy one's real freedom of expression (free will) and having a sense of individual self and unique personality independent from Krsna's Personality.
How can a lifeless puppet in a puppet show express loving emotions when it is always controlled and manipulated by the strings in the hands of the puppet master?
Similarly, how can the jiva-souls express loving emotions in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana if Krsna does not allow free will or individual independence and self expression which is the real meaning of being a marginal living entity?
Surrendering to Krsna and His pure devotee is not impersonal like that, surrender does not mean giving up your intelligence, free will, individuality and the awareness of being an independent unique contributing free thinking person you are eternally.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Love means you take and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is not love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation." (Lecture on BG, Ch 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - ''We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be one or love cannot be executed only one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture on SB Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - ''The (impersonalist) philosophy is oneness. So how there can be love, one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience? Love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He's so lover of you that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture on SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)
Devotee – "Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we can have impure desire when we are already serving Krsna."
Srila Prabhupada – "Because you have got little freedom, it is one's desire."
Devotee – "But in the Srimad Bhagavatam it says that Krsna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krsna did not want us to come here, why are we here?"
Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, you forced Krsna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there" But he insists, "Oh, I must go. I must go, all right, you go at your risk and suffer. What can be done?" (June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father, so God does not interfere with your independence." (June 25, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada - "If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently," so God says, "All right, you can go." This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy."(Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)
Being on the marginal plane (the jiva-souls) means those living entities have independence and free will.
This means there is always voluntary respectful loving exchanges and contributions going on between two, between Krsna and His jiva-soul independent expansions.
There are many other categories of living entities, they are in the category of Visnu-tattva (93.75% of Krsna's qualities or having 60 of Krsna's 64 attributes) and Siva-tattva (84.375% of Krsna's qualities or having 55 of Krsna's 64 attributes)
Conclusion-
Srila Prabhupada - "Service to the Lord is always voluntarily, one can choose who they want to be in Goloka-Vrindavana at Krsna’s lotus feet, or on the Vaikuntha Planets serving Visnu. And they can change their relationship (rasa) with the Lord if they desire at any time." (Melb, May 20, 1975).^*^.
No comments:
Post a Comment
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.