Monday, March 7, 2022

Srila Prabhupada explains that fall down from the spiritual planets is very, very rare because most jiva-souls choose to never fall down.

Most jiva-souls (more than 90%) choose to never fall down from the spiritual worlds of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana and enter the mundane decaying material universes.

Dr. John Mize – "Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?"

Srila Prabhupada – "No, majority, 90%, they are always good; they never fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "So we’re among the 10%."

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, or less than that. In the material, the whole material world all the living entities they are. Just like in the prison house, there is some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population is outside the prison house. Similarly, the majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down."

Dr. John Mize – "Does Krsna know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient."

Dr. John Mize – "Are more souls falling all the time?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independenc. Everyone is not liking to misuse their independence. The same example, just like a government constructing a city and constructs a prison house because the government knows that somebody will be a criminal. So, their shelter must also be constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent per cent population will be criminal, but the government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise, why do they construct a prison house also? One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing" Government knows, there will be criminal. So, if the ordinary government can know, why God can not know also, Because there is tendency."

Dr. John Mize – "The origin of that tendency to fall from Goloka is?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes."

Dr. John Mize – "From where does that tendency come?"

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence; that tendency is always there. If you make it one way only, that you cannot fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore, Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. "Now you do whatever you like." (BG As It Is lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Syamasundara - "Can we predict that returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however, some do come back?''

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this; you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence; therefore, there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence. he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence and free will? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally, he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara, Henri Bergson)

Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you can go." Otherwise, what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind. He gives him the opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will." (Morning Walk Cheviot Hills May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

The original feature of the individual jiva-soul is a bodily form like Krsna Prabhupada has said, having two arms, two legs, etc.

This spiritual bodily svarupa form is the jiva-soul's full potential in their original spiritual position (rasa) in Goloka-Vrindavan.

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are not called tatastha-sakti in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana; it is a name describing the fallen conditioned state of the jiva-souls.

Srila Prabhupada - "So this "material world" is the taṭastha (conditioned) characteristics), and the spiritual worlds are the Personal (characteristics). So, our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (conditioned characteristics) and enter the permanent characteristics (Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana). That is called spiritual elevation." (New York City, Dec 28, 1966)

Revatīnandana - "Srila Prabhupāda you very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and I go to the brahmajyoti. I'm still fallen."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Revatīnandana - "That means all jīva-souls there are also fallen souls?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition."(Letter to: Revatinandana, LA 13 June, 1970 and Aug 17 1971 London)

Srila Prabhupada - ''When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness.'' (Letter, Revatinandana, LA 13 June, 1970)

Devotee – "Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?"

Srila Prabhupada – "Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So, God is also like human form. Here you see, Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – "How do we understand, then that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?"

Srila Prabhupada – "[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with a blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - "They are covered in the spiritual world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; then they become flower there. If I want to be a flower, I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna; he becomes flower and voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable yet a fact." (SB Canto 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is a chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one-sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will." (Philosophy Discussions with Rene Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada – "So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly; one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force." (Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupāda – ''Love means a relationship between "two persons," then there is exchange, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted; you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

The word reciprocation only has meaning when there are two involved in loving exchanges; this is not possible with just one.

Free will only has meaning when the jiva-souls can voluntarily express themselves in a two-sided relationship with Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. Do you want to be stone? Then you must have free will!" (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

The individual jiva-souls (marginal living entities) can never exist independently from Krsna even though they can express their own independent free will, that Krsna provides, separately for the purpose of allowing a unique two-way voluntary exchange of loving expressions to encourage individual contributions and personal offerings.

In Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana, personal voluntary expressions of loving exchanges are expressed through free will, they are always encouraged by Krsna in His relationship with the jiva-souls to add flavour, variety, individual contributions and mystery to the association.

Personalism means a two-way relationship of voluntary loving exchange that expands, enriches, and multiplies loving affection, sentiment, and exchanges between the jiva-souls, Krsna and Guru.

Srila Prabhupada - ''Love means you take, and you give also. Suppose if you love somebody and you simply take from him, but you don't give. Oh, do you think it is very good? No. It is not good. That is not love. That is exploitation. If I go on simply taking from you, and if I don't offer you anything, that is simply exploitation."(Lecture on BG Ch 9 text 2-5, New York, Nov 23, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - ''We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love can not be one, or love can not be executed by only one, personally. There must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (SB Canto 1 Ch 2, text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973).*



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